cmm1@CUNIXA.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Christopher M Mauritz) (10/25/89)
I do have an honest-to-goodness question about the elusive TT. Since users are paying all that money to get a 68030 box, can it multitask? Seems to me that if it doesn't it is just a speedy ST in a new box. Enquiring minds want to know.... Oh yeah, I think Richard Covert mentioned that he still was an avid ST fan, but would never buy another Atari product. I would put myself in the same class (except never should be all caps -->NEVER). Some of us are willing to pay a wee bit extra at the outset for a PC rather than having to fight tooth and nail for even the most meager (OK...nonexistent) support. Just an observation. I still like my ST (er, well I guess I still like my 15 year-old cub scout uniform too <grin>). Chris ------------------------------+--------------------------- Chris Mauritz |Where there's a BEER, cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu |there's a plan. (c)All rights reserved. | Send flames to /dev/null |Need I say more? ------------------------------+---------------------------
covertr@force.UUCP (Richard E. Covert) (10/26/89)
In article <CMM.0.88.625285647.cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu>, cmm1@CUNIXA.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Christopher M Mauritz) writes: > I do have an honest-to-goodness question about the elusive TT. Since > users are paying all that money to get a 68030 box, can it multitask? > Seems to me that if it doesn't it is just a speedy ST in a new box. > Enquiring minds want to know.... Nope, it does NOT multitask. This has been mentioned by John Townsend et al on GEnie in the past. The TT will simply be a faster ST with slightly better graphics. And John Townsend said that the first TT will be called TT/P for the Plastic TT (it is in a plastic box). Later, if any, models are supposed to be in a Tower cabinet. Also, someone posted a message on GEnie about the upcoming Comdex show in Las Vegas in Novemebr. This person got a brochure from Comdex and Atari was listed as shwoing the "TT/Megastation". So, maybe the new TT will be called the TT/Megastation. Who knows? Anything is better then TT/P. It will use TOS 1.6 which is the same TOS being used in that other VaporWare the 1040STE. So no mutlitasking, unless you call DAs multitasking of course. > > Oh yeah, I think Richard Covert mentioned that he still was an avid ST > fan, but would never buy another Atari product. I would put myself in > the same class (except never should be all caps -->NEVER). Some of us > are willing to pay a wee bit extra at the outset for a PC rather than > having to fight tooth and nail for even the most meager > (OK...nonexistent) support. Just an observation. I still like my ST > (er, well I guess I still like my 15 year-old cub scout uniform too > <grin>). > I don't think that ANYONE could have supported Atari more then myself over the past five years. I own a 520ST (3 years old and still running), a Mega ST2 (20 months old), an 85 meg drive for the 520ST, a 130 meg drive for the Mega, an Atari SLM804 laser printer, 3 Atari monitors (2 color, one monochrome). And lots of commerical software. I have bought most of the available word processors, I own LDW Power and VIP Professional. I wqon Mark Williams C and FLASH and Interlink. The list could continue for pages. And when I first bought the 520ST, the ST was a steal. And when I first bought the Mega I was told about all of the future boards being designed for it. Over the last 3 years the ST, both 520/1040 and Mega ST, have been left in the dust by IBM PC clones. And now that Commodore is producing an Amiga (A3000) which uses non-interlaced graphics, the A3000 is a serious contender in my book. But, what has Atari done to improve the ST. The Diablo Emulator for the SLM804 lp is so bad that Word Perfect has dropped the Atari LP as a supported WP printer. So, much for Atari support. Atari has never released an Epson Emulator for the SLM804. So much for Atari support. I know, folks say that I should NOT have bought the SLM804. But, what it does it does very well. I love the quality of my C listings and the speed at which the SLM804 prints. But its shortcomings are frustrating, and Atari's lack of support is maddeining! I would dearly like to get a good CASE tool but if you think I will ever see one for the ST or the TT you are pretty optimistic. The software market has just plain and simply left the ST. Except for games. There are plenty of new games for the ST. Just lots and lots of games. And mostly from Europe. So, that leaves the ST as a Game Machine. and maybe that where ATari should concentrate. Sell the ST and TT as Super Game Machines and blow away Ninetendo. So, why do I like my ST? first, GEM is fairly easy to program in. Second, Mark Williams C is a great compiler. Third, I dislike Mac's hardware even more then Atari's lack of support. The ST's DMA port blows away the MAC IIci when it comes to data xfer from hard drive. So, I don't like Mac hw, but do like Mac sw, and Apple support. I like Atari ST hw, and sw but hate Atari's LACK of support. So, unless I design and build my own computer I am stuck in an imperfect world. And as I have over 6 grand tied up in Atari computer gear, I will stay with Atari for awhile. But, I will NEVER buy another computer from Atari. Especially a closed system like the TT/P. One lousy short VME card slot does not make an OPEN system. you need 5 or more. One slot just guarantees that no one will design for it. Lack of resources. > Chris > **************** GOOD NEWS SECTION **************************** THE FAST TECHNOLOGY TURBO16 is one of the best things to come to the ST market. It works in all models of the ST and gives you an increase of upto 50%. I have 2 friend who have it and they both love it. T16 is a small pc board with a 16 MHz 68000 and a 32 Kbyte Fast static RAM cache. It is the cache ram that gives the most increase in performance for your ST. So, please, if you have a local Atari dealer, check out the Turbo16 from Fast Technology. It is wonderful. **************************************************************** Rich Covert
gl8f@astsun9.astro.Virginia.EDU (Greg Lindahl) (10/27/89)
In article <4675ca0d.14a1f@force.UUCP> covertr@force.UUCP (Richard E. Covert) writes: [ responding to a question about TT multitasking ] >Nope, it does NOT multitask. J. Townsend has announced that 3rd party Unix will be available "RSN". Unix multitasks. It's entirely possible that David Beckmeyer could produce a TOS multitasker that could multitask as well on the TT as MTC does on the ST. However, multitasking ST programs in general is quite a complex problem. The TT has 2 markets: 1) Upgraded ST -- singletasking, runs GEM, fast. 2) Unix box. System V binary-compatible, nice fast colour display, ram above 2 megs uses burst cache fill so it's relatively fast. This is the future. > This has been mentioned by John Townsend et al >on GEnie in the past. John also talked about Unix. Unix multitasks, eh? > The TT will simply be a faster ST with slightly >better graphics. To market # 1, TT will be this. It's an upgrade path for the ST. For market # 2, the TT will be quite different. It will be a box capable of running Unix programs distributed as source as well as 680x0 binary- standard applications. Instant software base. I hope that Richard doesn't buy one so that he won't tell us all about it. Actually, I wish Richard would benchmark TeX on his SLM804 against an HP Laserjet and then tell us how bad the SLM804 is. ------ Greg Lindahl gl8f@virginia.edu I'm not the NRA.
JALKIO@cc.helsinki.fi (Jouni Alkio) (10/28/89)
In article <4675ca0d.14a1f@force.UUCP>, covertr@force.UUCP (Richard E. Covert) writes: > > And when I first bought the 520ST, the ST was a steal. And when I first bought > the Mega I was told about all of the future boards being designed for it. > Over the last 3 years the ST, both 520/1040 and Mega ST, have been left in > the dust by IBM PC clones. And now that Commodore is producing an Amiga (A3000) > which uses non-interlaced graphics, the A3000 is a serious contender in my > book. Amiga A3000? I haven't even heard of it. Can you buy one in the US now? If you can't is it still a plan or do they have a prototype? How much will it cost? What are the specifications? And what's so special about non-interlaced graphics? I have only heard of an Amiga A2500. It is has only a M68020 and is more expensive than an Atari TT! What makes the A3000 special that you would choose it over a TT, for example? I doubt Commodore is supporting more than Atari... > > I would dearly like to get a good CASE tool but if you think I will > ever see one for the ST or the TT you are pretty optimistic. The > software market has just plain and simply left the ST. Except for > games. There are plenty of new games for the ST. Just lots and lots > of games. And mostly from Europe. You could buy your non-games software from Europe, too. There is plenty of it. > > So, that leaves the ST as a Game Machine. and maybe that where ATari > should concentrate. Sell the ST and TT as Super Game Machines and blow > away Ninetendo. A Games Machine with Unix - you must be joking! > > But, I will NEVER buy another computer from Atari. Especially > a closed system like the TT/P. One lousy short VME card slot > does not make an OPEN system. you need 5 or more. One slot > just guarantees that no one will design for it. Lack of resources. What do you need those 5 or more slots for. (And please don't answer: "internal modems, hard-disks, etc", because that's only a cosmetic issue.) By the way, I've read that Atari will bring the graphics card of the ATW (which is quite neat) for the TT as a VME-card... Jouni Alkio
phoenix@ms.uky.edu (R'ykandar Korra'ti) (10/29/89)
Just trying to make a few more corrections... In article <1160@cc.helsinki.fi> JALKIO@cc.helsinki.fi (Jouni Alkio) writes: >In article <4675ca0d.14a1f@force.UUCP>, covertr@force.UUCP (Richard E. Covert) writes: >> which uses non-interlaced graphics, the A3000 is a serious contender in my >> book. What he's talking about is the Enhanced Chip Set for the Amiga. ALL Amiga systems will be able to use them - the A1000 will require a special daughterboard (third party). They provide several new video modes, including high-resolution (704*480 with overscan) non-interlaced, 1280*480 SuperHires, ChromaKey (the thing that lets weathermen walk in front of their weathermaps), and some other new features. All high-res modes on the current chip set are interlaced, for compatibility with NTSC and PAL video systems - one of the original design goals of the Amiga. However, this can cause a problematic amount of flicker if you don't buy a de-interlacing or high- persistance phosphor monitor. >Amiga A3000? I haven't even heard of it. Can you buy one in the US now? >If you can't is it still a plan or do they have a prototype? How much >will it cost? What are the specifications? Commodore-Amiga will not give information on the release date of the A3000. Some specifications are known; 68030, 68881 at 33 Mhz (I think); ECS; full 32-bit system path up and down the line. Observers guess at release dates from 1Q90 (don't bet on it) to 4Q90 (safe bet, IMHO.) >What makes the A3000 special that you would choose it over a TT, for >example? I doubt Commodore is supporting more than Atari... With all due respect, I think it is a safe bet that C-A support is better than Atari, Inc. support. I suggest you verify this on your own, of course, but as a benchmark; AmigaDOS 1.3 came out a few months ago. It came with a 1/3 inch thick supplemental manual detailing all changes and additions made to all commands. I got my copy from a dealer for $15. They just released a maintenance upgrade - 1.3.2 - for free. You may also wish to compare co-operation with developers, telephone waits on customer support lines, advertising support, and so on. This isn't to say that C-A support is perfect; far from it. But you can always tell that they're trying very hard. >What do you need those 5 or more slots for. (And please don't answer: >"internal modems, hard-disks, etc", because that's only a cosmetic issue.) Multiple graphics cards, GenLock card, processor upgrade, RAM additions, new and different networking cards and disk interfaces, second (third, etc) parallel and serial cards, systems control, etc, etc. - R'ykandar. -- | R'ykandar Korra'ti, Editor, LOW ORBIT | phoenix@ms.uky.edu | CIS 72406,370 | | Elfinkind, Unite! | phoenix@ukma.bitnet | PLink: Skywise | QLink: Bearclaw |
dnewton@carroll1.UUCP (Dave 'C is cool, but what about LOGO?' Newton) (10/29/89)
In article <1160@cc.helsinki.fi> JALKIO@cc.helsinki.fi (Jouni Alkio) writes: >In article <4675ca0d.14a1f@force.UUCP>, covertr@force.UUCP (Richard E. Covert) writes: >> But, I will NEVER buy another computer from Atari. Especially >> a closed system like the TT/P. One lousy short VME card slot >> does not make an OPEN system. you need 5 or more. One slot >> just guarantees that no one will design for it. Lack of resources. >What do you need those 5 or more slots for. (And please don't answer: >"internal modems, hard-disks, etc", because that's only a cosmetic issue.) Well, AD/DA cards, interrupt cards (for process control), parallel output cards, co-processors (i.e. high-speed DSP's, _Transputers_, an 80386 machine for doing DOS if you must), and probably some I can't think about. -- David L. Newton | uunet!marque!carroll1!dnewton | The Raging Apostle-- (414) 524-7343 (work) | dnewton@carroll1.cc.edu | for the future-- (414) 524-6809 (home) | 100 NE Ave, Waukesha WI 53186 | for the world. "Isn't it fun to take two unrelated sentences and mix the batter lightly?" -me