ehsnsr@JUPITER.NMT.EDU (Eric Hobbs) (11/11/89)
Dearest Netters,
I am looking into trying to learn a new computer language,
but I really don't know which one to try out. The only things that
I must have is a language that is in the Public Domain or it is
Shareware (I'm a poor college student!), the language must support
graphics and sound without too much hassle, and it _MUST_ be able
to run on a 520STfm with 512K and a 360K SS/DD disk drive. Well
that narrows it down, doesn't it. I don't really want to learn
68000 assembly language and I only know BASIC and a little bit of
Logo. (Pretty Limited, Huh?).
You guys and gals are my last hope! Save me from expensive
languages and ST BASIC!!!!!ARRRRGH!
By the way, if you have any suggestions, please tell me where
I can get it (mail-order, ftp, e-mail, etc.). Thanks.
Eric Hobbs
---- | | ehsnsr@JUPITER.nmt.edu
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---- . | | . <- Pretty Dumb, no? glk01126@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (11/12/89)
There are tons of languages available at ftp 35.1.33.8 (terminator). I've gotten Lisp, Forth, C, Icon and a few others I have sitting around, waiting for me to chow on... -Spieu!
rs0@beach.cis.ufl.edu (Bob Slaughter) (11/13/89)
In article <8911110458.AA06278@jupiter.nmt.edu> ehsnsr@JUPITER.NMT.EDU (Eric Hobbs) writes: >Dearest Netters, > > I am looking into trying to learn a new computer language, > You guys and gals are my last hope! Save me from expensive >languages and ST BASIC!!!!!ARRRRGH! > By the way, if you have any suggestions, please tell me where >I can get it (mail-order, ftp, e-mail, etc.). Thanks. Try Forth. Forth is a reverse-polish notation threaded interpreted/compiled language. It's most amazing power is that you can add new procedures to the langauge that become part of the language (i.e. Regular Forth doesn't have a CASE-type structure, but you can add one in, using Forth itself. Much more powerful than just having dumb functions and procedures). There is an excellent PD version out there Somewhere (somebosy else come to this person's aid on this please), which can be upgraded to full GEM/AES useage with a nominal upgrade fee, which you only need to pay after you have seen and tried out the freebie version. Send mail for more details on Forth (I am not a Forth guru, just a happy user). -- * Bob Slaughter * This space for rent * * InterNet#1: rs0@beach.cis.ufl.edu * Call 1-800-FOR-RENT * * InterNet#2: Haldane@Pine.Circa.Ufl.Edu * Model Railroading * * Bitnet: Haldane@UFPine * is Fun!! *
mitsolid@acf5.NYU.EDU (Thanasis Mitsolides) (11/13/89)
/* acf5:comp.sys.atari.st / ehsnsr@JUPITER.NMT.EDU (Eric Hobbs) / 11:58 pm Nov 10, 1989 */ > I am looking into trying to learn a new computer language, >but I really don't know which one to try out. In my opinion, one of the most powerful higher level programmiong languages around is ICON designed by Griswold (designer of Snobol4). Its features include: List processing, Backtracking, generators, Coroutining, String Matching, set processing, first class functions etc. Try it. Unless you are specializing in Programming Languages (and by your posting it seems you are not) you are bound to be impressed. Even if it is not suitable to you (which can only be true if efficiency is particularly important) you will learn some useful programming techniques. Thanasis PS You can ftp it from arizona.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "If you pray hard enough, water will run uphill. How Hard? Why, hard enough to make water run uphill, of cource!" R. A. Heinlein Internet: mitsolid@csd2.nyu.edu (mitsolid%csd2.nyu.edu@relay.cs.net) UUCP : ...!uunet!cmcl2!csd2!mitsolid -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
esp_05@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU (Stdnt 05) (11/14/89)
Strikes me that older versions of GFA Basic are in the public domain. Although I don't know a whole lot about it because I don't use it, it strikes me that it has full GEM support, and that it's really easy to use. The one time I looked at it, I was also impressed by its editor. If I used BASIC I would probably be happy with it. (I must say, way back when I got my 520ST in what, '86 I guess, ST BASIC was a real disappointment.) Eric Ruck
davidli@umn-cs.CS.UMN.EDU (Dave Meile) (11/14/89)
In article <3289@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU> RICK@JHUVM (Eric Ruck) writes: >Strikes me that older versions of GFA Basic are in the public domain. Much as we might like them to be, all past and present version of GFA BASIC are _NOT_ in the public domain. Version 2.0 was published on the January 1989 disk that goes with START magazine, but unless stated otherwise, programs in START are _NOT_ public domain. This crops up about once or twice a year, and it would probably be wise for people posting such information to make _SURE_ that they have their facts straight, or some poor soul out there is going to have an unpleasant suprise when s/he's accused of "software piracy". On the other hand, Jim Kent _HAS_ acquired the rights to the last version of what used to be called Aegis Animator, and has released a shareware version under the name AniST. The program was published in the November 1989 issue of START magazine, and was posted to GEnie. I don't know about the other services (CompuServe?...). Anyway, I wanted to prevent some less-than-correct information from spreading across the network. Now, back to your regularly scheduled "my computer is better..." :-( -- David Paschall-Zimbel
rehrauer@apollo.HP.COM (Steve Rehrauer) (11/14/89)
In article <8911110458.AA06278@jupiter.nmt.edu> ehsnsr@JUPITER.NMT.EDU (Eric Hobbs) writes: > I am looking into trying to learn a new computer language, >but I really don't know which one to try out. The only things that >I must have is a language that is in the Public Domain or it is >Shareware (I'm a poor college student!), the language must support >graphics and sound without too much hassle, and it _MUST_ be able >to run on a 520STfm with 512K and a 360K SS/DD disk drive. Well >that narrows it down, doesn't it. I don't really want to learn >68000 assembly language and I only know BASIC and a little bit of >Logo. (Pretty Limited, Huh?). > You guys and gals are my last hope! Save me from expensive >languages and ST BASIC!!!!!ARRRRGH! If you just want a better BASIC, I'd suggest GFA BASIC. I've never used it, but most people seem to like it well enough (certainly can't get much worse than ST BASIC, eh?). I _believe_ the interpreter is (or was?) public domain? At least, I'd swear I saw a copy of the GFA BASIC interpreter on a STart magazine disk last year... Your system memory & disk size is probably going to encourage you to use an interpreter (of whatever language), since they tend to be smaller than a compiler for the equivalent language. I can vouch that the OSS Personal Pascal compiler (_VERSION 1_ !) is _barely_ usable on a stock 520ST with one 360K drive. I emphasize _barely_! Useful as a learning tool, at any rate -- you'll be able to keep SMALL programs all on the (copy of the) compiler disk, in fact, and avoid disk-swaps (though a RAM disk makes things less painful -- putting the compiler's temp files on the RAM disk speeds things up a bit, too). The documentation is even pretty good. As for availability, sorry. I don't know if Optimized Systems Software is still around, and you don't want PPascal 2.0 on that configuration (v2.0 grew a bit) anyway, so I'd suggest finding someone who is selling their copy of v1 (pay no more than $20-$30; it retailed for $79, and commonly sold for under $50) or find a mail-order "firesale". (Sorry, I'd like to keep my copy of v1.0 -- I don't use it anymore, but I'm a pack-rat. ;-) (Alas, I think you'll soon find yourself straight-jacketed by Pascal's strict type-checking on the ST. Although OSS wrapped a decent interface around a substantial chunk of the GEM/TOS functions, they weren't all there in PPascal. And IMO, it was a real pain to go outside of the OSS- supplied interface when you needed to, largely because of type-checking. They extended the ISO standard in other ways; why they didn't add some sort of type-cast (beyond variant records, which I LOATHED using) is beyond me.) All of the other ST compilers I've had occasion to use require either more memory than 512K, or another drive, or a hard-drive, or all three to be useable & relatively pain-free. Really, you may want to shop around for another SS drive at the very least. Or, better yet, upgrade to 1M of memory and use a big RAM disk. -- >>"Aaiiyeeee! Death from above!"<< | Steve Rehrauer, rehrauer@apollo.hp.com "Flee, lest we be trod upon!" | The Apollo Computer Division of H.P.
glk01126@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (11/14/89)
Strike three, your out!
hase@netmbx.UUCP (Hartmut Semken) (11/14/89)
In article <3289@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU> RICK@JHUVM (Eric Ruck) writes: >Strikes me that older versions of GFA Basic are in the public domain. No. False. No version of GfA Basic is in the Public domain. There ist only the freely redistributable run-only-Interpreter. But version 2.0 has become very cheap (DM 15; a dollar buys around DM 1.80) and the manual is not copy protected (printed red on black pages) anymore. hase -- Hartmut Semken, Lupsteiner Weg 67, 1000 Berlin 37 hase@netmbx.UUCP Dennis had stepped up into the top seat whet its founder had died of a lethal overdose of brick wall, taken while under the influence of a Ferrari and a bottle of tequila. (Douglas Adams; the long dark teatime...)
steve@thelake.UUCP (Steve Yelvington) (11/15/89)
In article <46d19982.20b6d@apollo.HP.COM>, rehrauer@apollo.HP.COM (Steve Rehrauer) writes ... >In article <8911110458.AA06278@jupiter.nmt.edu> ehsnsr@JUPITER.NMT.EDU (Eric Hobbs) writes: >> I am looking into trying to learn a new computer language, >>but I really don't know which one to try out. The only things that >>I must have is a language that is in the Public Domain or it is >>Shareware (I'm a poor college student!), the language must support >>graphics and sound without too much hassle, and it _MUST_ be able >>to run on a 520STfm with 512K and a 360K SS/DD disk drive. Well >>that narrows it down, doesn't it. I don't really want to learn >>68000 assembly language and I only know BASIC and a little bit of >>Logo. (Pretty Limited, Huh?). >> You guys and gals are my last hope! Save me from expensive >>languages and ST BASIC!!!!!ARRRRGH! > >If you just want a better BASIC, I'd suggest GFA BASIC. I've never used it, >but most people seem to like it well enough (certainly can't get much worse >than ST BASIC, eh?). I _believe_ the interpreter is (or was?) public domain? >At least, I'd swear I saw a copy of the GFA BASIC interpreter on a STart >magazine disk last year... Not public domain. Public domain is a legal term that does not mean what most computer users seem to think it means. Antic (the magazine and software publishers) took over distribution of GFA BASIC about the time GFA 3.0 was released, and disposed of the old version by making it part of the STart disk. >Your system memory & disk size is probably going to encourage you to use an >interpreter (of whatever language), since they tend to be smaller than a >compiler for the equivalent language. (stuff about Personal Pascal omitted) >All of the other ST compilers I've had occasion to use require either more >memory than 512K, or another drive, or a hard-drive, or all three to be >useable & relatively pain-free. Really, you may want to shop around for >another SS drive at the very least. Or, better yet, upgrade to 1M of >memory and use a big RAM disk. Mark Johnson's shareware C compiler, which is available from the archive-server@panarthea if you can get it to answer your mail, was developed on a one-drive 520ST. The C function library is not very complete, but the GEM bindings are pretty good. It's a reasonable first compiler for a student. A second disk drive is well worth the investment, though. -- Steve Yelvington, up at the lake in Minnesota ... pwcs.StPaul.GOV!stag!thelake!steve (UUCP)
mitsolid@acf5.NYU.EDU (Thanasis Mitsolides) (11/15/89)
There is an excelent book from "R.E. Griswold & M.T. Griswold" with title "The ICON Programming Language" published by "Prentice-Hall (1983)" ISBN 0-13-449777-5 People who like lisp and/or prolog will find it particularly interesting. Thanasis ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "If you pray hard enough, water will run uphill. How Hard? Why, hard enough to make water run uphill, of cource!" R. A. Heinlein Internet: mitsolid@csd2.nyu.edu (mitsolid%csd2.nyu.edu@relay.cs.net) UUCP : ...!uunet!cmcl2!csd2!mitsolid -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
gilmore@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Neil Gilmore) (11/18/89)
In article <3289@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU>, esp_05@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU (Stdnt 05) writes... >Strikes me that older versions of GFA Basic are in the public domain. >Although I don't know a whole lot about it because I don't use it, it >strikes me that it has full GEM support, and that it's really easy to >use. The one time I looked at it, I was also impressed by its editor. >If I used BASIC I would probably be happy with it. (I must say, way >back when I got my 520ST in what, '86 I guess, ST BASIC was a real >disappointment.) Well, GFA is currently one of my 2 regularly used languages (assembly w/ Assempro the other). The editor is, quit simply, the best I have ever used on any system, for any language. I have used a lot of editors in my time (vi, EDT, EMACS variants, .......), but I now find the autoindenting, syntax-checking, atuo-capitalization indispensible. The language is pretty good, too. Buying the current revision is a good idea, as it has a CASE, and supports more variable types (byte, short int, etc. ) The ability to import ASCII is nice too (I have a few tools which output ASCII for importation). It's rather fast as well, and there is a compiler which is fairly good. I wouldn't reccommend it for professional projects, but it works well as a prototyper, or for those throwaway programs which are needed quickly. >Eric Ruck +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Kitakaze Tatsu Raito Neil Gilmore internet:gilmore@macc.wisc.edu | | Jararvellir, MACC, UW-Madison bitnet: gilmore@wiscmac3 | | Middle Kingdom Madison, Wi | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+