01659@AECLCR.BITNET (Greg Csullog) (12/01/89)
One netter mentioned problems with UNITERM's Kermit. On our site, which has a CYBER 830/990 combo and various VAXs, such as an 8550, the only Kermit that works flawlessly with full server support is UNITERM's Kermit. Some 20 - 40 people use it almost daily. I use UNITERM Kermit in text or binary mode almost every day and I have never had one problem. I've tried Versa-Term Pro and Red Ryder under Mac emulation but they do not have server support. Neither does ZSTEM or SmarTerm 240 for the PCs. The ONLY Kermit I trust is UNITERM's so WHAT problems are there?
t19@nikhefh.nikhef.nl (Geert J v Oldenborgh) (12/02/89)
In article <8912010813.AA04349@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>, 01659@AECLCR.BITNET (Greg Csullog) writes: > One netter mentioned problems with UNITERM's Kermit. On our site, which One BAD bug I found in my version 2.0e is the following: if you try to uplod a file (type kermit -r on my mainframe), then accidentally press [receive] on the Kermit menu, choose the file you wanted to [send] and your file is gone to the Eternal Bit Grounds. Was I glad my editor makes .bak files.... If anyone has a 2.0e without this bug please let me know. Geert Jan van Oldenborgh
jmberkley@watnext.waterloo.edu (J. Michael Berkley) (12/02/89)
> On 30 Nov 89 19:26:00 GMT, 01659@AECLCR.BITNET (Greg Csullog) said:
GC> The ONLY Kermit I trust is UNITERM's so WHAT problems are there?
I too like and trust Uniterm, but there is a small, subtle bug in the
8th bit quoting negotiation. Here is a copy of the message I tried to
send to Simon Poole:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 89 13:03:36 EST
From: jmberkley
Subject: Uniterm Kermit and 8th bit quoting negotiation
I'm having trouble with Uniterm and 8th bit quoting. When Uniterm and
Ckermit negotiate, the transfer does not correctly go into 8th bit
quoting. I asked Frank da Cruz for advice and debugging assistance.
A summary of his reply is printed below.
The problem seems to be that Uniterm says '&' for 8th bit quoting, and
Ckermit replies with 'Y' (meaning yes I'll do it). But Uniterm takes
the 'Y' to be the 8th bit quoting character (!). The 'Y' reply by
Ckermit is documented in the kermit protocol manual from Columbia.
If I set the 8th bit quoting character to be 'Y' in Uniterm, then 8th
bit quoting is properly and successfully performed.
I am using the latest version of Uniterm from cs.orst.edu (sorry, but
I cannot remember the version number right now) and Ckermit 4F(085).
Thank you
Mike Berkley, University of Waterloo
PAMI Lab
jmberkley@watnext.waterloo.edu
{utai,uunet}!watmath!watnext!jmberkley
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Wed, 19 Jul 1989 12:44:01 EDT,Frank da Cruz
<fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> said:
FdC> I checked 8th bit quoting between C-Kermit 4F(085) and MS-Kermit
FdC> 2.32/A. These two function perfectly together -- 8th-bit
FdC> prefixing is negotiated correctly, and binary files are uploaded
FdC> from the PC to Unix correctly.
FdC> I looked at the packet log. There are only a few "&" characters
FdC> inside the data packets (well under 50), whereas the file is
FdC> about 14K long. In an average binary file, you would expect to
FdC> find 50% of the characters with their 8th bits on, in this case
FdC> about 7000. This would indicate to me that Uniterm is not doing
FdC> 8th-bit quoting.
FdC> It appears that although Uniterm is putting the right things
FdC> about negotiating 8th-bit-prefixing in its S-packet, that it is
FdC> not following through with this during the data transfer. The
FdC> protocol says that if one side says "&" (as Uniterm did) and the
FdC> other side says "Y" (yes, as C-Kermit did), then 8th-bit
FdC> prefixing will be used. Apparently, it was not.gilmore@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Neil Gilmore) (12/02/89)
In article <8912010813.AA04349@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>, 01659@AECLCR.BITNET (Greg Csullog) writes... >One netter mentioned problems with UNITERM's Kermit. On our site, which >has a CYBER 830/990 combo and various VAXs, such as an 8550, the only Kermit >that works flawlessly with full server support is UNITERM's Kermit. Some >20 - 40 people use it almost daily. I use UNITERM Kermit in text or binary >mode almost every day and I have never had one problem. I've tried Versa-Term >Pro and Red Ryder under Mac emulation but they do not have server support. >Neither does ZSTEM or SmarTerm 240 for the PCs. The ONLY Kermit I trust is >UNITERM's so WHAT problems are there? Exactly the same here. Through various strange machination I discovered that our VAXes had both Kermit and Xmodem. Out of 6 programs for 2 machines, ONLY Uniterm's Kermit is able to transfer binaries. The only Kermit I have for the Amiga does not transfer correctly, and ABSOLUTELY NONE of the Xmodems will work. I must say I was surprised to read that it had bugs, since it's the only one which works for me... +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Kitakaze Tatsu Raito Neil Gilmore internet:gilmore@macc.wisc.edu | | Jararvellir, MACC, UW-Madison bitnet: gilmore@wiscmac3 | | Middle Kingdom Madison, Wi | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
SML108@PSUVM.BITNET (12/04/89)
On the subject of kermits and ST's... I also use the Uniterm Kermit to transfer to and from my ST. it works fine wit h VAX computer systems, however weird, VERY WEIRD stuff happens with Unix sys- tems, both System V and 4.3bsd. It works fine transferring text files, but gives a potpourri of errors with binary files. This DOES NOT HAPPEN ON VAXES! Ther really weird bit about the erros is that if you set the maximum allowabl e number of erros high enough, it eventually succeeds in transferring the block s it has trouble with. I have no idea why this happens..... Has anyone else figured this one out... Scott Le Grand aka SML108@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
hedger@inmet.inmet.com (12/04/89)
I have used 2.0d for the past 2 weeks and have had no trouble transferring files between my ST and our SUN system running 4.2 UNIX.
fischer-michael@CS.YALE.EDU (Michael Fischer) (12/05/89)
In article <89337.135453SML108@PSUVM.BITNET> SML108@PSUVM.BITNET writes: >On the subject of kermits and ST's... > >I also use the Uniterm Kermit to transfer to and from my ST. it works fine wit >h VAX computer systems, however weird, VERY WEIRD stuff happens with Unix sys- >tems, both System V and 4.3bsd. It works fine transferring text files, but >gives a potpourri of errors with binary files. This DOES NOT HAPPEN ON VAXES! > Ther really weird bit about the erros is that if you set the maximum allowabl >e number of erros high enough, it eventually succeeds in transferring the block >s it has trouble with. I have no idea why this happens..... > >Has anyone else figured this one out... > >Scott Le Grand aka SML108@PSUVM.PSU.EDU I have no trouble at all with either text transfers or binary transfers between Uniterm Kermit on my ST and C-Kermit running on a 4.3bsd system (a Sun Sparcstation). You do have to remember to set binary mode at both ends for binary transmissions. I usually say "kermit -ix" to the Unix kermit, click the "binary" box on the Uniterm menu, and use the "get" or "put" command. ================================================== | Michael Fischer | | Arpanet: <fischer-michael@cs.yale.edu> | | Bitnet: <fischer-michael@yalecs.bitnet> | | UUCP: <fischer-michael@yale.UUCP> | ==================================================
johnb@pnet01.cts.com (John Bunch) (12/05/89)
I had the same problem also. I then switched to using s ckermit to do file
transfers.. It works great...
John.
P.S. Ckermit is available at terminator.
UUCP: {hplabs!hp-sdd ucsd nosc}!crash!pnet01!johnb
ARPA: crash!pnet01!johnb@nosc.mil
INET: johnb@pnet01.cts.comdbsuther@PacBell.COM (Daniel B. Suthers) (12/05/89)
In article <89337.135453SML108@PSUVM.BITNET> SML108@PSUVM.BITNET writes: >On the subject of kermits and ST's... > >I also use the Uniterm Kermit to transfer to and from my ST. it works fine wit >h VAX computer systems, however weird, VERY WEIRD stuff happens with Unix sys- >tems, both System V and 4.3bsd. It works fine transferring text files, but >gives a potpourri of errors with binary files. This DOES NOT HAPPEN ON VAXES! I have no idea why it eventually works with the retries set high enough, but I have found that some UNIX kermits default to binary, and some to text. It becomes important to specify [binay/text] on BOTH ends to get a valid transfer. Some of the unix ports don't always switch properly between 7 and 8 bit modes either. It's always best to match up before starting the transfer; after all it is PD software and no-one is playing gaurdian. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dan Suthers, Analyst, Pacific Bell uucp: {backbone}!pacbell!pbeos!dbsuther ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Youth's a difficult time, and it gets harder the longer you try to draw it out. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
bartho@obs.unige.ch (PAUL BARTHOLDI) (12/05/89)
In article <8912010813.AA04349@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>, 01659@AECLCR.BITNET (Greg Csullog) writes: > One netter mentioned problems with UNITERM's Kermit. ... > The ONLY Kermit I trust is UNITERM's so WHAT problems are there? I can confirm that I do use UNITERM (2.0e) Kermit almost dayly in binary mode with the following counterparts : Vax-vms Kermit32, Vax-vms CKermit, IBM vm-cms Kermit, Sun unix Kermit and PC Kermit 2.32 . My Atari 1040ST is connected at 19.2 Kbps to an Ethernet pad (Bridge cs/100) with XON/XOFF protocol. The line to the IBM goes through the vax, then through a x.25 line to a central pad that connects me to the 3090 ... From experience, I have set the packet length to 1024 (reduced to 96 max by CKermit ...) and use the CRC for error detection. Depending on various conditions I get no errors or a few retries, but never got locked or with unreadable file (even a single error would be rejected by the dearcing programs). The mean transfer rate is almost 1KB/s with the Vax (780), while it's almost 4 times slower with the IBM due to the many intermediates nodes, but the error rate is similar. I found the 1KB packets giving the best throughput. A 2KB is even better, but only if the retries are very rare. I never the less remember a discussion about a year ago (or more ?) between Simon Poole and ? concerning binary transmission. After reading all arguments, i was convinced that UNITERM worked the right way, although the documentation could have been interpreted differently. The fact that I never had any problem with the 5 different versions above confirms this 'experimentaly' I think (not a proof !) regards and Thanks to Simon if he reads this ! Paul ---------------------------------------------------------------- | Dr Paul Bartholdi bartho@cgeuge54.bitnet | | Observatoire de Geneve bartho@obs.unige.ch | | 51, chemin des Maillettes 02284682161350::bartho (psi) | | CH-1290 Sauverny 20579::ugobs::bartho | | Switzerland +41 22 755 39 83 (fax) | | +41 22 755 26 11 (tel) | | +45 419 209 obsg ch (telex) | ----------------------------------------------------------------
SHAWL@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (12/06/89)
In article <2748@dogie.macc.wisc.edu>, gilmore@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Neil Gilmore) writes: > In article <8912010813.AA04349@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>, 01659@AECLCR.BITNET (Greg Csullog) writes... > >>One netter mentioned problems with UNITERM's Kermit. On our site, which >>has a CYBER 830/990 combo and various VAXs, such as an 8550, the only Kermit >>that works flawlessly with full server support is UNITERM's Kermit. Some >>20 - 40 people use it almost daily. I use UNITERM Kermit in text or binary >>mode almost every day and I have never had one problem. I've tried Versa-Term >>Pro and Red Ryder under Mac emulation but they do not have server support. >>Neither does ZSTEM or SmarTerm 240 for the PCs. The ONLY Kermit I trust is >>UNITERM's so WHAT problems are there? > I agree with much of what is said, but with some modification. Until very recently, I was using version 1.7b; it worked flawlessly in all cases EXCEPT sending DEGAS format pictures to our VAX. Before I was even aware of UNITERM, I purchased ANSIGRAPH; I have had no troubles with its KERMIT at all. So, while I use UNITERM as my standard, I changed to ANSIGRAPH for any long binaries. I have not tried UNITERM 2.0e on a degas picture yet. Steve Shawl bitnet: SHAWL@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
aimd@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Davidson) (12/07/89)
In article <89337.135453SML108@PSUVM.BITNET> SML108@PSUVM.BITNET writes: >On the subject of kermits and ST's... > >I also use the Uniterm Kermit to transfer to and from my ST. it works fine wit >h VAX computer systems, however weird, VERY WEIRD stuff happens with Unix sys- >tems, both System V and 4.3bsd. It works fine transferring text files, but >gives a potpourri of errors with binary files. This DOES NOT HAPPEN ON VAXES! [stuff deleted] Strange, I've downloaded loads of stuff from a Sys V UNIX machine and it always works fine - the only time it doesn't is when I forget to set the '-i' option on the UNIX kermit (for binary mode transfer). There's maybe something wrong with your UNIX kermit (although I have heard of some sort of bug in Uniterm's Kermit but it always works OK for me)... >Scott Le Grand aka SML108@PSUVM.PSU.EDU Mark Davidson <aimd@ed.castle>
mpsimon@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (M. Patrick Simon) (12/10/89)
In article <1333@castle.ed.ac.uk> aimd@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Davidson) writes: >In article <89337.135453SML108@PSUVM.BITNET> SML108@PSUVM.BITNET writes: >>On the subject of kermits and ST's... >> >>I also use the Uniterm Kermit to transfer to and from my ST.it works fine wit >>h VAX computer systems, however weird, VERY WEIRD stuff happens with Unixsys- >>tems, both System V and 4.3bsd. It works fine transferring text files, but >>gives a potpourri of errors with binary files. This DOES NOT HAPPEN ON VAXES >[stuff deleted] > >Strange, I've downloaded loads of stuff from a Sys V UNIX machine and it >always works fine - the only time it doesn't is when I forget to set the >'-i' option on the UNIX kermit (for binary mode transfer). There's maybe >something wrong with your UNIX kermit (although I have heard of some >sort of bug in Uniterm's Kermit but it always works OK for me)... > >>Scott Le Grand aka SML108@PSUVM.PSU.EDU > >Mark Davidson <aimd@ed.castle> I have also had difficulties with Kermit in Uniterm (v2.0b). Downloading works fine, even in binary mode, but uploading does not work fine if there is a communication server present (e.g. something that forces kermit to use 8th bit prefixing, or whatever that's called). I know this is a bug in Uniterm's implementation of kermit because another kermit I have for the ST will do those same uploads correctly. From the discussion here, it does not sound as if this bug has been fixed in later versions. --Patrick Simon mpsimon@phoenix.princeton.edu p.s. I had even more difficulties with transfer until I set the Unix end kermit's parity correctly. This can be done in the kermit initialization file, so you don't need to check it each time. p.p.s. I use uniterm all the time, and really appreciate the effort Simon Poole has put into this program.