bradm@pro-grouch.cts.com (Brad Martin) (01/11/90)
I have heard rumors (God I hate rumors) that TOS 1.6 would allow the STe to work with an 68030 processor (and perhaps an 1040ST or Mega if outfited with 1.6). I would like to know if any of the Atari reps here on the net could comment on this. I have a friend who works for a company who makes 68030 boards for 'other' computers who could have an '030 board out for the ST way before another well publisized project (Hi Dave :-) ). If this is not true, I will have to convince them that they want to write the software to make it compatable (how would you like to have you ST running at 40mhz?). .>Brad Martin<. Atari Jihad "The above opinions are mine and mine alone... I think."
valentin@cbmvax.commodore.com (Valentin Pepelea) (01/12/90)
In article <1149@crash.cts.com> bradm@pro-grouch.cts.com (Brad Martin) writes: > >I have heard rumors (God I hate rumors) that TOS 1.6 would allow the STe to >work with an 68030 processor (and perhaps an 1040ST or Mega if outfited with >1.6). I would like to know if any of the Atari reps here on the net could >comment on this. I have a friend who works for a company who makes 68030 >boards for 'other' computers who could have an '030 board out for the ST way >before another well publisized project (Hi Dave :-) ). If this is not true, I >will have to convince them that they want to write the software to make it >compatable Well, I too work for a company that makes 68030 boards, though not likely to ever produce ST boards. :-) Now I don't know how TOS is written but I can tell you what the difference in the processors are. All user-mode instructions, as opposed to supervisor-mode, are fully upwardly compatible from the 68000 up to the 68040. Except for the MOVE <ea>,SR instruction of the 68000 which is now executable only in supervisor mode on 68010+ processors. This however can be easely fixed through software. Executing this instruction in user mode on 68010+ processors will cause a priviledge violation exception, and an exception software handler can substitue the right code there. Another difference between the 68000 and 68010+ processors is the exception stack frame created during an exception, such as interrupts. The differences are small and well documented, but they have to be taken into account anyway. If Atari provides source code to its OS, then fixing this should be no problem, particularly on 68030+'s. You see, the 68030 has a built-in MMU, thus allowing you to load a fake image of ROM in RAM and then translating all memory accesses to the ROM area to the RAM area. If source code to the OS is not provided, you're screwed, unless the OS already takes account of the different exception stack frames created on the different processors. You can probably disassemble the exception processing code yourself, since the exception processing routines have their pointers starting at location 8. Of course, software which depends on busy-waiting timing loops will be completely out of wack. So even if you get your act together, that does not mean that third party software out there does too. (how would you like to have you ST running at 40mhz?). Don't hold your breath. Even if you get a processor running at 40MHz, the rest of the hardware will not. You would have to provide your own 32-bit memory board to go along the 68030, and it will not be accessible to the blitter or any other device at high speeds. By the way, if your friend's company would like to make a board for this 'other' computer I work on, you know who to have him contact. :-) Valentin -- The Goddess of democracy? "The tyrants Name: Valentin Pepelea may distroy a statue, but they cannot Phone: (215) 431-9327 kill a god." UseNet: cbmvax!valentin@uunet.uu.net - Ancient Chinese Proverb Claimer: I not Commodore spokesman be
kbad@atari.UUCP (Ken Badertscher) (01/12/90)
bradm@pro-grouch.cts.com (Brad Martin) writes: | I have a friend who works for a company who makes 68030 | boards for 'other' computers who could have an '030 board out for the ST way | before another well publisized project (Hi Dave :-) ). 68030 expansions that work on other computers may or may not work on the ST - Jim Allen and Dave Small know this all too well. The ST has some unique hardware glue problems that make it tough to step into the 68000's shoes (or pads, as it were). Don't you think that if the STE were completely 68030 compatible, and Atari could support it, that Atari would be crowing about that fact? What third parties can do with the machines shipped by Atari, and what _Atari_ can support on its machines are two vastly different categories of things. It is obviously doable, or Dave & Jim wouldn't have considered doing it. If any other hardware developers believe it's a worthwhile project, they are welcome to contact Atari developer support, and Atari will give them as much help as possible. -- ||| Ken Badertscher (ames!atari!kbad) ||| Atari R&D System Software Engine / | \ #include <disclaimer>
mitsolid@acf5.NYU.EDU (Thanasis Mitsolides) (01/13/90)
/* acf5:comp.sys.atari.st / kbad@atari.UUCP (Ken Badertscher) / 7:21 pm Jan 11, 1990 */ >W hat third parties can do with the machines shipped by Atari, and what > _Atari_ can support on its machines are two vastly different categories o> f things. Thank God!! :-) Thanasis
etelree@dutrun.UUCP (C. van Reeuwijk) (01/14/90)
In article <1952@atari.UUCP> kbad@atari.UUCP (Ken Badertscher) writes: >Don't you think that if the STE were completely 68030 compatible, and >Atari could support it, that Atari would be crowing about that fact? > ||| Ken Badertscher (ames!atari!kbad) And 68010 compatibility of TOS 1.6? I know, it is not such an improvement as a '30, but one might get a faster ST, and it may work. Any comments from Atari on this? An while I'm at the subject: could Atari release details about the programming of the STE? I would love to get one if I could use its extended possibilities. Sorry, I can't afford to become I registered developer for this. I am just hacking on the Atari as a hobby, and the required $100 or $200 is just too big a dent in my budget for that. In my opinion there are a *lot* of ST users who would like to get the real info on the ST instead of the unreliable books that are sold today. Thus, I strongly disagree with Ken (was it Ken?) who thinks that there would be no market for this. After all, since there has been little advertising of the ST, ST owners tend to be people who know the field, and know that a bad ST is better than a good mess-dos machine. (This is not a flame to Ken, just a difference of opinion.) C. van Reeuwijk | e-mail: reeuwijk@duteelb.UUCP Delft Univ. of Technology | Phone: +15-781429 Dep. of Electronic Eng. |------------------------------- Mekelweg 4 | If they are beginning to 2628 CD Delft | understand you, you can always The Netherlands | introduce another meta-level
VBRANDT@DBNUAMA1.BITNET (01/15/90)
Hello all, In Info-Atari16 Digest #39, crash!pro-grouch.cts.com!bradm@nosc.mil (Brad Martin) says: > I have a friend who works for a company who makes 68030 >boards for 'other' computers who could have an '030 board out for the ST way >before another well publisized project (Hi Dave :-) ). ... I >will have to convince them that they want to write the software to make it >compatable (how would you like to have you ST running at 40mhz?). I have such software. The only problem is that Atari would have to OK the distribution of it, which is probably not going to happen. If you can get an Atari OK, however, please contact me via email and we'll work something out. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bitnet: VBRANDT@DBNUAMA1 (will go away some day ...) Volker A. Brandt UNM409@DBNRHRZ1 (alternative) Angewandte Mathematik UUCP: ...!unido!DBNUAMA1.bitnet!vbrandt (Bonn, West Germany) ARPAnet: VBRANDT%DBNUAMA1.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU