thamer@skiff.cis.ohio-state.edu (Mustafa Thamer) (01/17/90)
What is the difference between Sozobon, GNU (gcc), and C compilers like Laser C or MWC. Are they just different compilers or improved/modified languages. I've heard a lot fo talk about GNU stuff and was wondering what's the big deal.? Thanks Mustafa -=- "Two days ago I saw a vehicle that'd haul that tanker. You wanna get out of here; you talk to me." Max - The Road Warrior M. Thamer @cis.ohio-state.edu
rjd@cs.brown.edu (Rob Demillo) (01/17/90)
In article <75767@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu> Mustafa Thamer <thamer@cis.ohio-state.edu> writes: > >What is the difference between Sozobon, GNU (gcc), and C compilers >like Laser C or MWC. Are they just different compilers or >improved/modified languages. I've heard a lot fo talk about >GNU stuff and was wondering what's the big deal.? > The GNU project stands for "GNU's Not Unix." It is composed of mostly volunteers, and overworked, underpaid hackers whose sole purpose is to port the UNIX(tm) OS, environment and accompanying utilities and tools into the public domain (with source code) on a variety of platforms. They are basing their philosophy on the old hacker ethic that knowledge should be free, and, to directly oppose AT&T's "no source code" license, they are rewriting everything from scratch and *giving* it away. It's a monumental effort, but there are company's out there supporting them. (Most micro computer and workstation companies have donated equipment to the project...it's gotten quite large.) Anyhow, there stuff seems to work fairly flawlessly. The have emacs, several compiliers, and most utilities running on a large group of plateforms. Which bring us to: gcc - this is GNU's public domain C++ compiler. It comes with source code for the Atari, and a Sun-Atari cross compiler. C++ is *not* C, but a metaset language encompassing most ANSI C syntax. The extensions are in the areas of Object Oriented Programming (OOPS) Systems. (MODULA is such a language.) These extensions allow you to have several job processing running "at once" (or seemly) by treating code functions as OOPS objects. We have gcc on the Suns at work, and it works quite well. I just got gcc for the Atari ST, but I haven't gotten around to installing it yet. It's quite huge. (With source, binaries, documentation, cross-compilers, etc if comes to a little over 14 Megabytes.) Other C compilers you asked about: Sozobon C: Another public domain C. And amazingly well done. It conforms with K&R standards, and supports GEM and AES calls. Its YAPAFS. (Yet Another Piece of Amazing Free Software.) There are a lot of talented people out there with a lot of time on their hands! MWC: Mark Williams C. This is a commercial piece of software. It comes with a UNIX-like environmental shell, and conforms (supposedly) to K&R. The two people who I personally know who have MWC don't care for it. I have no first hand experience with it, so I can't judge. Laser C: Formerly Megamax C. This is also commercial. Frankly, I love it. It can either be operated from a UNIX shell (golum works quite well), or from its own menu oriented programming environment. Laser C shines the brightest in this latter environment. The shell caches your code and binaries during the first compile/link stage. After that, it changes only the modified parts of the source and binaries in cache. The results are impressive. Huge (and I am talking about 10's of 1000's of lines of code) compile and link at blinding speeds. It also comes with a debugger I've grown quite dependent on. Both Laser C and MWC sell for the $110-$140 range. Hope this all helps. - Rob DeMillo | Internet: rjd@brown.cs.edu Brown University | BITnet: DEMILLO%BRNPSG.SPAN@STAR.STANFORD.EDU Planetary Science Group | Reality: 401-273-0804 (home) "I say you *are* the Messiah, Lord! And I ought to know, I've followed a few!"
7103_2622@uwovax.uwo.ca (Eric Smith) (01/17/90)
In article <75767@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu>, thamer@skiff.cis.ohio-state.edu (Mustafa Thamer) writes: > What is the difference between Sozobon, GNU (gcc), and C compilers > like Laser C or MWC. Are they just different compilers or > improved/modified languages. I've heard a lot fo talk about > GNU stuff and was wondering what's the big deal.? Well, they're all just compilers. But they all support different features. There are two standards for C; K&R first edition (the original book by Kernighan and Ritchie) and ANSI C, which is the new standard (and which is covered in the second edition of Kernighan and Ritchie). All of the compilers you mention are more or less compliant with K&R 1st edition, and they all have (different) extensions to it. The GCC also complies with the ANSI standard (and has extensions to *that* as well!). I've used Laser, Sozobon, and the GCC. I only use the GCC now; I find the other compilers quite limiting in the features available. On the other hand, the GCC pretty much requires a hard disk and 2 megabytes of memory. If you don't have this much, you might consider one of the alternatives. Sozobon is a pretty decent compiler, and the price is certainly right. And the commercial compilers do have the advantage of better documentation and (often) nice graphics shells, if you care about that. -- Eric R. Smith email: Dept. of Mathematics ERSMITH@uwovax.uwo.ca University of Western Ontario ERSMITH@uwovax.bitnet London, Ont. Canada N6A 5B7 ph: (519) 661-3638
7103_2622@uwovax.uwo.ca (Eric Smith) (01/17/90)
In article <25724@brunix.UUCP>, rjd@cs.brown.edu (Rob Demillo) writes: [ some useful (and correct) information about GNU deleted ] > gcc - this is GNU's public domain C++ compiler. It comes > with source code for the Atari, and a Sun-Atari > cross compiler. C++ is *not* C, but a metaset language > encompassing most ANSI C syntax. The extensions are > in the areas of Object Oriented Programming (OOPS) > Systems. (MODULA is such a language.) These extensions > allow you to have several job processing running > "at once" (or seemly) by treating code functions > as OOPS objects. NO! What you describe is g++, GNU's version of C++, and not gcc. gcc is an ANSI compatible C compiler. The Atari version of g++ is available, but still somewhat buggy, I hear. The Atari gcc is (I hope) no more buggy than the other gcc's, which is to say it has a few bugs, but probably no more than commercial compilers. -- Eric R. Smith email: Dept. of Mathematics ERSMITH@uwovax.uwo.ca University of Western Ontario ERSMITH@uwovax.bitnet London, Ont. Canada N6A 5B7 ph: (519) 661-3638
saj@chinet.chi.il.us (Stephen Jacobs) (01/17/90)
The previous reply in this thread had an error and a statement I disagree with.
1)gcc is the GNU C compiler. It's available for the Atari ST, and is compliant
with the draft ANSI standard. There's also g++, the GNU C++ compiler, which
is not C, and if it's }iavailable for the ST, that's very recent.
2)I like Mark Williams C. The non machine-specific parts are pretty K&R
compliant. The library is very UNIX-like. The support people are great if
you phone (don't write--they answer in 3 months). The compiler is said to be
derived from pcc. The source and machine language debuggers work well.
Steve J.alex@athertn.Atherton.COM (Alex Leavens) (01/18/90)
Regards Mark Williams C: I have, use it, and like it a lot. It's a solid, professional compiler with a lot of support and tons of documentation. I use it with the Beckemeyer C-Shell, and in that environment, it's basically like using Un*x. MWC has CSD which is their C Source Debugger, which is great stuff; once you start using it, you'll be hooked. (You'll need big chunks of memory, tho'...). I use MWC with a ram disc, so all loads of the compiler, and all intermediate files go to RAM. It's acceptably fast, although not as fast as Laser C. Anyway, I just wanted to give my perspective, as a very satisfied user of MWC. Disclaimer: I don't work for MW, and I don't know anyone who does (except their support people! :-) -- |-------------------------------------------------------------------------| |--alex | alex@Atherton.COM | Caution! Falling Opinions, next 6 miles | | Now who are you gonna believe--me, or your own lyin' eyes? | |-------------------------------------------------------------------------|
covertr@force.UUCP (Richard E. Covert) (01/18/90)
In article <1990Jan17.154602.19880@chinet.chi.il.us>, saj@chinet.chi.il.us (Stephen Jacobs) writes: > > 2)I like Mark Williams C. The non machine-specific parts are pretty K&R > compliant. The library is very UNIX-like. The support people are great if > you phone (don't write--they answer in 3 months). The compiler is said to be > derived from pcc. The source and machine language debuggers work well. > Steve J. I too like MWC. I have been using it for 3 years now. MWC does require a hard drive, but any serious programmer is going to have a hard drive anyway. And as I use UNIX at work, I fit very well with MWC's msh. And the best thing about MWC is its manual. I am still learning things from it. Also, MWC has an 800 technical support phone number (though I don't remember it right now). MWC has always been very helpful in answering my technical questions. Plus, you can buy the source code to the MWC Libraries. So, you can see what the differences between malloc() and Malloc() are! So, if you are a UNIX programmer I would recommend MWC. If you are a novice C coder or just have a floppy drive I would recommend Laser C. -- Richard E. Covert, Lead Engineer of Software Tools Group AG Communications Systems, Phoenix AZ (602) - 581-4652 TCP/IP: covertr@gtephx UUCP: {ncar!noao!asuvax | uunet!zardoz!hrc | att}!gtephx!covertr