koreth@ssyx.ucsc.edu (Steven Grimm) (06/28/89)
In article <890627.22503916.027053@SFA.CP6> Z4648252@SFAUSTIN.BITNET (Z4648252) writes: > His Uncle Bob needs an RGB monitor but doesn't have the >money. The molecular code is available on Joe User's disk. >He downloads the code, installs it in his cloner, and >presto. He has an RGB monitor. > Is the above ridiculous? Is it piracy or is it >stealing? It's sci.nanotech, where discussions about exactly this sort of thing can usually be found. (A VERY interesting newsgroup; read K. Eric Drexler's excellent book "Engines Of Creation" first, as he discusses a lot of this too. All this is not science fiction, or won't be for much longer.) --- These are my opinions, which you can probably ignore if you want to. Steven Grimm Moderator, comp.{sources,binaries}.atari.st koreth@ssyx.ucsc.edu uunet!ucbvax!ucscc!ssyx!koreth
Z4648252@SFAUSTIN.BITNET (Z4648252) (06/28/89)
Frank Rahmani writes:
"Just as there are two opposing sides to your
character, as shown by your two postings (one very friendly,
the other full of name-calling), there are also two opposing
aspects to software piracy."
----
Any STer who is isolated will be very grateful to the
gracious aid given by other STers on this net. I suppose
this is, as Frank says, my friendly side. I will admit to
another side, one of indignation when I see those taken
advantage of by, and here comes the name calling, thieves,
'slime', and 'scum bags'.
The language is harsh but it is purposeful. The term
PIRATE denotes adventure, challenge, and to a child, fun on
the high seas as ships are conquered and booty taken.
When I see my developer friends spending agonizing
months on software projects, it does bring up my other side
when I see their work stolen. Piracy? Nay. It is theft.
It is stealing. It is pure moral degeneration especially
when it is accepted by society as a whole.
Perhaps users who enjoy stealing software fail to
appreciate the significance of software. Without algorithms,
routines in ROMs, and programs, then a computer will not
work. Software is a part of the computer. It should not be
considered any different than the printer, disk drive, or
monitor. Software is part of the equipment. A purist will
cringe at that statement but philosophically, the statement
is correct.
As Frank says, piracy will always be with us. So also
will be crooks, thieves, and those who will rip another
person off. Solution? I just don't know. I liked the
earlier suggestion of a registration card on the outside of
the software package. It would take a lot of work to get
that to work, though.
Software rental could help on the low profits. Instead
of fighting rental firms, have a royalty fee similar to video
tapes. Why not?
At any rate, attacking software stealing on a moral
basis will never work. Someway, there needs to be a physical
solution or we who choose to buy will just have to wait a
little longer as prices rise to make up for the stolen
software.
Here's something for science fiction buffs. When
physical cloning becomes possible in the far (??) future,
imagine what happens when Joe User can buy a cloning device
so that he can clone his disk drive, his computer, his
monitor. Push a button and there it is. A backup disk
drive. A backup monitor.
His Uncle Bob needs an RGB monitor but doesn't have the
money. The molecular code is available on Joe User's disk.
He downloads the code, installs it in his cloner, and
presto. He has an RGB monitor.
Is the above ridiculous? Is it piracy or is it
stealing?
Larry Rymal <Z4648252@SFAUSTIN.BITNET>hoang@rex.cs.tulane.edu (Dzung Hoang) (06/28/89)
In article <890627.22503916.027053@SFA.CP6> Z4648252@SFAUSTIN.BITNET (Z4648252) writes: >Frank Rahmani writes: > > "Just as there are two opposing sides to your >character, as shown by your two postings (one very friendly, >the other full of name-calling), there are also two opposing >aspects to software piracy." >---- [stuff omitted] > Here's something for science fiction buffs. When >physical cloning becomes possible in the far (??) future, >imagine what happens when Joe User can buy a cloning device >so that he can clone his disk drive, his computer, his >monitor. Push a button and there it is. A backup disk >drive. A backup monitor. > His Uncle Bob needs an RGB monitor but doesn't have the >money. The molecular code is available on Joe User's disk. >He downloads the code, installs it in his cloner, and >presto. He has an RGB monitor. > Is the above ridiculous? Is it piracy or is it >stealing? > >Larry Rymal <Z4648252@SFAUSTIN.BITNET> If such a scenario were possible, I would regard it as normal use. Why have a cloning machine if not to "automatically" generate something. I wouldn't exactly call it stealing--he's just using his cloning machine. In such a situation (society), the emphasis should not be what one could or should do with a cloner, but who has access to a cloning machine. In other words, the cloning-machine industry and use should be regulated. Also, the person cloning the computer equipment is not doing it for free. Imagine the cost for such an operation--probably more than what the computer stuff costs. And if the average JOE can clone, what about industry? They either clone too, or suffer an agonizing death. Now, back to the present. What would one do with a disk drive and a copying program if not to copy disks? In summary, what I'm trying to say is that with the availability of disk copying programs and no real "restrictions" on their use, the copying of programs will take place. The only way to stop or at least hinder such practices is to restrict the availability of the tools for such purposes. In light of the legitimate needs for copying programs for backup purposes, this is practically impossible. Dzung Hoang hoang@comus.cs.tulane.edu ------------------------- This is only my opinion. Take it or leave it. ----------------------------------------------
exspes@gdr.bath.ac.uk (P E Smee) (06/30/89)
In article <863@rex.cs.tulane.edu> hoang@rex.UUCP (Dzung Hoang) writes: >In light of the legitimate needs for copying programs for backup purposes, >this is practically impossible. Just as an aside, one interesting aspect of the copyright laws in the UK is that it is ILLEGAL to copy programs for ANY purpose (including backup) unless the supplier has included an explicit statement saying that you are permitted to make copies. There are several followons to this. First, it means that you can't put anything onto a hard disk legally unless the supplier has granted permission to copy. Second, you can't back anything up ... Third (since no-one really thinks those two conclusions are reasonable) it is hard to get people to take the copyright laws seriously, when they contain such obvious stupidity. Also, the new copyright laws are apparently going to make illegal 'any device or program whose primary purpose is making copies of software'. The intent is to wipe out protection-crackers. However, an overzealous prosecution could easily try to expand that to eliminate your backup utilities, the mv and cp commands, ... I keep wishing that legislation had to be written by people who understood the issues.
tellabs.canada@canremote.uucp (TELLABS CANADA) (02/09/90)
I think it would be an unfair characterization of Atari Users'
Groups if they were generally considered software piracy havens. To the
contrary, my experience has been that Users' Groups have strongly
opposed piracy. Dave Schreiber speaks the truth re. Toronto Atari
Federation meetings. Piracy is not tolerated there. Similarly, pirates
can not be found at MTST (Metro Toronto ST users group) meetings. The
said group takes pride in operating a network of strictly 'non-pirate'
BBSes in the Toronto area.
Roman @ Tellabs Canada
----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ------ ------ ------ ------
Tellabs knows not what I say.. Lets keep it that way.. (Eh?)
/
Canadian Content :-)
---
* Via ProDoor 3.1R seldin@antares.Concordia.ca ( JONATHAN SELDIN ) (02/11/90)
I would like to add the name of M.A.S.T. (Montreal Atari ST Users' Group) to the list of users' groups that are opposed to software piracy. Our library consists of PD software and shareware only. Jonathan P. Seldin seldin@antares.concordia.ca seldin@conu1.bitnet -- Jonathan P. Seldin