clf3678@ultb.isc.rit.edu (C.L. Freemesser) (01/30/90)
In article <1129@carroll1.cc.edu> dnewton@carroll1.cc.edu (Dave Newton the Late) writes: > > I know this has been discussed, but I was wondering if anyone has the >canonical list of replacement keyboards for the ST. I'd like to put the >beast in a new box, get one of those cute curly cables for the keyboard, >and get a real keyboard. > If anyone knows of a replacement, or anyone has done one, please tell >me. If there are sufficient replies and/or requests for info, I'll summarize. > Thanx in advance. > Well, there aren't any REAL replacement keyboards for the ST. You can buy those awful spring-things to stiffen up the keyboard, but they don't work. I've been kicking the idea around of building a new keyboard with REAL key mechs (like the Mega and STacy have) for my 520. It's only an idea, but seems quite feasible. Of course, I'd have to make my computer into a detached-keyboard type (but I need the extra room for upgrades anyways). I'd also make some fundamental changes, like removing the slant to the function keys (their shape is impractical and a waste of space) and moving the joystick ports to the external keyboard itself, thereby cutting down the number of wires going to the motherboard from 22 to about 8. How do people feel about such a thing? I'm surprised it has not been done yet. From what I hear, quite a few people would like something better than this rubber crap we use now. Chris Freemesser, Rochester Institute of Technology :BITNET:%clf3678@RITVAX ||| ____________ :GEnie: C.FREEMESSER ||| /___ / (and 8-bit too!) :USENET: clf3678@rit.isc / | \ ______/ / : .edu Call the A.C.O.R.N BBS (716)436-3078, 300/1200 baud :<-or my BBS
obryan@gumby.cc.wmich.edu (Mark O'Bryan) (02/12/90)
In article <2048@ultb.isc.rit.edu> clf3678@ultb.isc.rit.edu (C.L. Freemesser) writes: > > Well, there aren't any REAL replacement keyboards for the ST. You can > buy those awful spring-things to stiffen up the keyboard, but they don't > work. > > I've been kicking the idea around of building a new keyboard with REAL > ...stuff removed... > > How do people feel about such a thing? I'm surprised it has not been > done yet. From what I hear, quite a few people would like something > better than this rubber crap we use now. Diverse Data Products of Florida (800) 662-8662 is bringing out a $60 box in March that allows you to connect any IBM AT style keyboard you like to the ST. If you're interested, you might want to check them out. There are cer- tainly plenty of options and lots of better keyboards in the PC world. They're working on software right now to make sure it works with PC-Ditto and Spectre. Personally, I decided to pass on it for two reasons: (1) it ties up the MIDI port, which I need, strange as it may seem, for... you guessed it... MIDI! (2) you can't disconnect and remove the Mega keyboard, because it's still needed to supply the intelligent keyboard chip, and handle the mouse and joystick ports. Your needs may differ from mine. I'd certainly like a better keyboard. I'm just not willing to give up my MIDI ports, serial port, parallel port, DMA port, etc. to get it. -- Mark T. O'Bryan Internet: obryan@gumby.cc.wmich.edu Western Michigan University Kalamazoo, MI 49008
swklassen@tiger.waterloo.edu (Steven W. Klassen) (02/13/90)
>In article <2048@ultb.isc.rit.edu> clf3678@ultb.isc.rit.edu (C.L. Freemesser) writes: >> >> Well, there aren't any REAL replacement keyboards for the ST. You can >> buy those awful spring-things to stiffen up the keyboard, but they don't >> work. >> >> I've been kicking the idea around of building a new keyboard with REAL >> ...stuff removed... >> >> How do people feel about such a thing? I'm surprised it has not been >> done yet. From what I hear, quite a few people would like something >> better than this rubber crap we use now. This may sound strange, but I personally, like the keyboard on my 1040ST much better than the keyboards which come standard with an IBM AT, PS/2, or (much worse) PC. One of the things I learned in High School was how to touch-type. My fastest typing to date was 80+ words per minute on a professional desk-top-publishing workstation. (I don't recall the make.) This had a keyboard so sensitive that you could almost type on it by blowing on the keys! The keyboard on the ST isn't as nice as this, of course, but I can still get a respectable 45-50 wpm while typing on it. My only real complaint about the ST keyboard is that the keys seem slightly farther apart than others, but that is something one's fingers quickly get used to. On an IBM, for comparison, I have NEVER hit faster than about 20-25 wpm. The reason is that you must press the keys so far down before getting a character. When you push it all the way down it gets the further resistance as the switch is activated. This may be fine for those who don't do much typeing, but if you have been trained to touch-type, your fingers want to move to the next key as soon as they have hit the top of the current key. That is, if they don't have to push the key all the way down, they can move to the next key faster, resulting in better typing times. Of couse this is all just my personal opinion and (from much of what is seen on the net) there are many of you who don't agree with me. This also really has nothing to do with the creation of replacement keyboards. Replacement keyboards are a good idea since they allow the user to choose the one he wants. (For example, there are some really good touch typing keyboards for the IBM but they tend to be pretty expensive.) If you don't agree with me, that's fine; I just thought it was time to get an alternate opinion on the net and say to the people at Atari that there is someone (me) who does like their keyboard. Steven W. Klassen +-----------------------------+ Computer Science Major | Support the poor...buy fur! | University of Waterloo +-----------------------------+
obryan@gumby.cc.wmich.edu (Mark O'Bryan) (02/13/90)
The biggest problem for me with the ST keyboards is that the gap between the keys is too small; a problem which Atari has solved with the keyboards on the Stacy and the new TT machines. -- Mark T. O'Bryan Internet: obryan@gumby.cc.wmich.edu Western Michigan University Kalamazoo, MI 49008
andrewm@atreus.uucp (Andrew Moizer) (02/15/90)
In article <20795@watdragon.waterloo.edu> swklassen@tiger.waterloo.edu (Steven W. Klassen) writes: >>In article <2048@ultb.isc.rit.edu> clf3678@ultb.isc.rit.edu (C.L. Freemesser) writes: >>> >>> Well, there aren't any REAL replacement keyboards for the ST. You can >>> buy those awful spring-things to stiffen up the keyboard, but they don't >>> work. > >This may sound strange, but I personally, like the keyboard on my 1040ST >much better than the keyboards which come standard with an IBM AT, PS/2, >or (much worse) PC. I must concur. I like the light touch of the ST keyboard. I can also touch type and find some of the IBM keyboards (especially the 'XT') type terrible to use. I also don't like the click that so many people seem to require. About the only improvement would be some marking of the 'home' keys (f & j) as I sometimes get going 'out of sync' for what it's worth Andrew NO .sig yet. Standard disclaimers apply Robert Andrews Bell-Northern Research {uunet!attcan!}utgpu!bnr-vpa!bnr-fos!titan!randrews <- haven't tried this yet
jensting@skinfaxe.diku.dk (Jens Tingleff) (02/16/90)
obryan@gumby.cc.wmich.edu (Mark O'Bryan) writes: >In article <2048@ultb.isc.rit.edu> clf3678@ultb.isc.rit.edu (C.L. Freemesser) writes: >> >> Well, there aren't any REAL replacement keyboards for the ST. You can >> buy those awful spring-things to stiffen up the keyboard, but they don't >> work. Try a German ST magazine, they're full of it (REALLY). >> >> I've been kicking the idea around of building a new keyboard with REAL >> ...stuff removed... >> >> How do people feel about such a thing? I'm surprised it has not been >> done yet. From what I hear, quite a few people would like something >> better than this rubber crap we use now. >Diverse Data Products of Florida (800) 662-8662 is bringing out a $60 box in >March that allows you to connect any IBM AT style keyboard you like to the [..] The German magazine mc did a replacement that was 100 % compatible, way back (say -88 ..). The idea is to -1 Take a very hard look at the ST circuit diagram, note down the keyboard matrix, connections to the IOContl etc. -2 Build a new keyboard matrix with REAL keys, connect to original keyboard controller etc. There you are. It involves taking the thing completely apart, though. You should be able to buy the circuit diagram (The local dealer here carries it in his catalogue). All the boxes that connect to the MIDI port are a loss, in my opinion, for the reasons noted by Mark. Anyway, is there a way to get the `both SHIFT keys are pressed' kind of data out from a PC keyboard and into the ST MIDI/serial port ?????? (I once saw a program that needed this key-combination). I will be adding a new keyboard to my ST (right after the harddisk and the 2MB exta memory, sigh). Jens
mark@ccvr1.ncsu.edu (Mark Boyd) (02/16/90)
I'm the person who adapted a DEC keyboard to the ST. I did it because I wanted a better keyboard that retained the DEC layout. I also do stuff with PC's and I seriously considered using an extended PC keyboard. There would not be a problem with shift keys or the alt key or whatever. The ST, in many ways, copies the PC. The keyboard is one of those ways! PC keyboards and Atari keyboards send similar scan codes. They send those codes whenever a key is pressed and whenever it is released. No problems there. The problem is in the interface between the keyboard and the PC. It requires extra circuitry to interface, while the DEC keyboard does not. On the other hand, the DEC keyboard doesn't distinguish between the two shift keys. Big deal. Mark Boyd mark@ccvr1.ncsu.edu