rcb@ditka.UUCP (Roy Bixler) (02/17/90)
I've been trying to get a hold of Beckemeyer Development by phone for some time now. I got the number out of a recent STart magazine and dialed the number. It was disconnected, but gave a new number. I then called the new number and have only succeeded in getting an answering machine saying that Beckemeyer Development was not available and would get back to me soon. I left a message twice, but have not heard a thing. Anyone know what happened to Beckemeyer? So, I only know what the advertisement said about MT C-shell, which was that it is multi-user, multi-tasking, runs GEM programs and as an option, UUCP is available. Sounds good (maybe too good). Is it really multi-user, multi-tasking? I doubt this because someone told me that he didn't think the Motorola 68000 chip had memory protection mode and, in light of that, it would be impossible for a 68000 to run multi-user. Also, does the MT C-shell come with any Unix utilities and, if so, which ones? What do people think of it? Is it just as good to get a public domain, multi-tasking kernal such as MX2? Thanks for any experiences or knowledge you can share ... Roy "I wanna' be a software engineer, not a sysadmin" Bixler
dnewton@carroll1.cc.edu (Dave Newton the Late) (02/18/90)
In article <20967@ditka.UUCP> rcb@ditka.UUCP (Roy Bixler) writes: >So, I only know what the advertisement said about MT C-shell, which was >that it is multi-user, multi-tasking, runs GEM programs and as an >option, UUCP is available. Sounds good (maybe too good). Is it really >multi-user, multi-tasking? I doubt this because someone told me that he >didn't think the Motorola 68000 chip had memory protection mode and, in >light of that, it would be impossible for a 68000 to run multi-user. Well, MT C-shell is at the least multi-tasking, I believe it was written with the Micro-RTX multi-tasking OS extension, which I know for a fact is multi-tasking. As to whether or no the C-shell is inherently multi-user, that I don't know, but if it can multi-task, it can support another user if you write the code. The 68000 has user and supervisor modes, but this has nothing to do with multi-tasking. Any microprocessor can multitask, just look at MP/M (a multi-user, multi-tasking C/PM thing). It ran on a Z80, which didn't have much of anything. -- David L. Newton | uunet!marque!carroll1!dnewton (414) 524-7343 (work) | dnewton@carroll1.cc.edu (414) 524-6809 (home) | 100 NE Ave, Waukesha WI 53186
hyc@math.lsa.umich.edu (Howard Chu) (02/19/90)
In article <20967@ditka.UUCP> rcb@ditka.UUCP (Roy Bixler) writes: >So, I only know what the advertisement said about MT C-shell, which was >that it is multi-user, multi-tasking, runs GEM programs and as an >option, UUCP is available. Sounds good (maybe too good). Is it really >multi-user, multi-tasking? I doubt this because someone told me that he >didn't think the Motorola 68000 chip had memory protection mode and, in >light of that, it would be impossible for a 68000 to run multi-user. >Also, does the MT C-shell come with any Unix utilities and, if so, which >ones? What do people think of it? Is it just as good to get a public >domain, multi-tasking kernal such as MX2? My big gripe with MX2, besides the fact that it stopped working when I got TOS 1.4 installed in my machine, was that it didn't propagate your environment to the spawned processes. (My next gripe was that it's written in Modula-2 and it's far from apparent how to modify it to this poor C programmer/Unix hacker... }-) Hm. Granted, a 68000 running at 8MHz pushes as many MIPS as a Vax 750, do you *really* want to turn your machine into a multi-user host? (I've never understood the BBS oprerator mentality, sorry. Why the *hell* would I want to turn loose a bunch of unfamiliar hackers on the machine I've slaved over for so long? Why would I want to donate a phone line or two for other people to use, dedicate an expensive modem to their use, etc.? I shelled out a lot of hard-earned cash for a machine for *me* to use, let those hackers hack on their own machines...) But, to try to answer the question, no, the 68000 doesn't support memory protection. It's not *impossible* to run multi-user, just unwise, unless you're very certain about the folks you allow to be users. And that just covers the "malicious intent" side of things, you still have to worry about runaway programs that accidentally romp thru memory and trash everything that everyone else was doing. Rethink what you're trying to do. The ST is a *personal* computer. You don't want to have other people using it, you're supposed to have it all to yourself... -- -- Howard Chu @ University of Michigan
alex@athertn.Atherton.COM (Alex Leavens) (02/21/90)
>I've been trying to get a hold of Beckemeyer Development by phone for >some time now. I got the number out of a recent STart magazine and >dialed the number. It was disconnected, but gave a new number. I then >called the new number and have only succeeded in getting an answering >machine saying that Beckemeyer Development was not available and would >get back to me soon. I left a message twice, but have not heard a >thing. Anyone know what happened to Beckemeyer? Dave is very much alive and well. It kinda depends when you call him whether he's there or not. Try late afternoons, PST, as the best bet. Also, if you e-mail him (Hope I get this right: uunet!unisoft!bdt!david) he responds pretty quickly. >So, I only know what the advertisement said about MT C-shell, which was >that it is multi-user, multi-tasking, runs GEM programs and as an >option, UUCP is available. Sounds good (maybe too good). Is it really >multi-user, multi-tasking? I doubt this because someone told me that he >didn't think the Motorola 68000 chip had memory protection mode and, in >light of that, it would be impossible for a 68000 to run multi-user. >Also, does the MT C-shell come with any Unix utilities and, if so, which >ones? What do people think of it? Is it just as good to get a public >domain, multi-tasking kernal such as MX2? Dave wrote a multi-tasking kernel (Micro RTX) which is what he bases his stuff on. Micro RTX is available as shareware here on the net. His stuff does indeed support multi-user multi-tasking (I'm running his stuff on my system at home), although you do come to appreciate the limitations of an 8-mhz 68000. (Hmmmm...I need some more processor horsepower here!). His UUCP stuff works, too (I have my own UUCP site setup and can recieve mail, and everything! :-). If you want to get a flavor of his stuff, get his single tasking C-shell and tools; I've been using them for more than 5 years now, and have nothing but good things to say about them. Highly recommended. Note: I'm not connected with BDT in any commercial way, although I do know Dave. -- |-------------------------------------------------------------------------| |--alex | alex@Atherton.COM | Caution! Falling Opinions, next 6 miles | | New Net Address!!: UUCP: {uunet,ucbvax}!unisoft!bdt!dsdeng!alex | | "Mmmm...Ooo, say...Yummm......Blewuechh! Tiggers _don't_ like honey." |
david@bdt.UUCP (David Beckemeyer) (02/21/90)
In article <20967@ditka.UUCP> rcb@ditka.UUCP (Roy Bixler) writes: > >I've been trying to get a hold of Beckemeyer Development by phone for >some time now.... The best time to contact the BDT offices is Monday, Wednesday, Friday between 10am and 5pm. We have set aside Tuesdays and Thurdays to get real work done. :-) Thanks. -- David Beckemeyer (david@bdt.UUCP) | "I'll forgive you Dad... If you have Beckemeyer Development Tools | a breath mint." P.O. Box 21575, Oakland, CA 94620 | Bart - "The Simpsons" UUCP: {uunet,ucbvax}!unisoft!bdt!david |