david.schreiber@canremote.uucp (DAVID SCHREIBER) (02/17/90)
Your explanation of why Atari releases products in Europe before Noth America isn't too convincing. Atari does NOT regard N.A. as a potentially larger market than Europe, since they do very little to supply and service N.A. Something like 90% of sales are in Europe. The real difference is that in Europe Atari is established as a machine that can do serious work, it got in before IBM and the Macintosh and is doing well; whereas in N.A. it has a poor profile and marketing is a constant upward battle. Canadians understand this idea of our being regarded as peripheral to the main market very well. Perhaps this is why we have coped with it and, as a result, the ST is doing far, far better in Canada than south of the border. Americans, on the other hand, are outraged at the suggestion that they are not the centre (Cdn. spelling) of Atari's strategy. I'd add that, in general, Americans are outraged at the idea that they are not the centre of the world, but that would be a cheap shot. Besides, they are awfully nice people, if a little self-involved. --- * Via ProDoor 3.1R
Z4648252@SFAUSTIN.BITNET (Z4648252) (02/18/90)
DAVID SCHREIBER stated: >....the ST is doing far, far better in Canada than south >of the border. Americans, on the other hand, are outraged at the >suggestion that they are not the centre (Cdn. spelling) of Atari's >strategy. I'd add that, in general, Americans are outraged at the idea >that they are not the centre of the world, but that would be a cheap >shot. Besides, they are awfully nice people, if a little self-involved. I take exception to the above statement. I'm not outraged at Atari U.S.A.. No, I'm hurt instead and feel betrayed. I rejoice that at least some nation in the North Americas is getting decent treatment for its users. Relish your ST market, Canada, and don't take it for granted! I could care less if the U.S. is the center (U.S. spelling - grin) of the ST market. What I do care for is that I can get reliable info about my computer which I've invested money in and be assured that the computer which I've put my money and time into will still be around and supported. I feel betrayed for I have no idea whether or not my ST will be an orphan or not by the end of this year. Here are areas which I feel betrayed in: 1. The Mega2 ST. I bought it because I was *assured* by the man himself during a convention that it would be the front-end for the ATW. That idea was abandoned. Fine, but the assurance came across as fact and was literally promised as fact. 2. Education. As an educator, I was assured that Atari would pursue an aggressive marketting strategy for schools in a manner similar to that done for the Pets of ten years ago. Our school has yet to receive a reply from Atari regarding the stocking of a music lab utilizing MIDI. Apple Mac will more than likely win the bid since they at least responded. 3. Documentation. As a user, I cannot find 'official' Atari documentation designed for users that is of technical nature. Docs that come to mind is that similar to the technical manuals SUPPLIED with the Amiga 500 and optional manuals similar to the Commodore 64 or 128 Reference manual. Are we Atari STers rated any less? No, but as far as docs are concerned, the ST seems to be built for developers, not for users. 4. Stagnant software. Software such as TimeWorks Desktop Publisher is buggy and will not be upgraded due to the lack of ST exposure. I bought the product several years ago. A more aggressive market might have caused that program to be expanded. 5. 3rd market support. Well, a bright spot. It is fantastic. Due to Dave Small, Gordon Moore, George Woodside, the CodeHeads, DoubleClick, and others, the ST continues to keep its head above water. WordPerfect also sees a market potential. --- These are just rambling items in my head that come to mind as I compose this on-line. However, and again, I don't care if the U.S. market is the center or not. I just want promises made to not be broken, follow-up on correspondence, and customer support. As an ST user who has sunk some money into the Atari ST since summer of 1985, I feel betrayed by Atari. Ok, enough of this. I normally don't flame and will probably get scorched. SIGH Larry Rymal: |East Texas Atari 68NNNers| <Z4648252@SFAUSTIN.BITNET>
aimd@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Davidson) (02/20/90)
In article <900218.00165749.037772@SFA.CP6> Z4648252@SFAUSTIN.BITNET (Z4648252) writes: >1. The Mega2 ST. I bought it because I was *assured* by the man > himself during a convention that it would be the front-end for > the ATW. That idea was abandoned. Oh dear - here at Edinburgh Uni we have an ATW with a Mega 2 front-end! Does that mean we're out of date? >3. Documentation. As a user, I cannot find 'official' Atari documentation > designed for users that is of technical nature. Docs that come to > mind is that similar to the technical manuals SUPPLIED with the > Amiga 500 and optional manuals similar to the Commodore 64 or 128 > Reference manual. Are we Atari STers rated any less? No, but as > far as docs are concerned, the ST seems to be built for developers, not > for users. Yeah, docs are a bit of a bummer but if you buy a decent C compiler they usually come with ST documentation. Prospero C has over 1000 pages, split into 4 books, one on ANSI C libraries, one on the language and the other two cover the AES and VDI in detail (however, they seem to have been nicked from the IBM GEM documentation). The Concise Atari ST Programmer's Reference by Katherine Peel is a good reference on all aspects of the ST. There are NO technical manuals supplied with UK Amy 500's the docs cost about 30 quid a book and there's about 4 books. At least they're available though. >Larry Rymal: |East Texas Atari 68NNNers| <Z4648252@SFAUSTIN.BITNET> Mark Davidson.
rjd@cs.brown.edu (Rob Demillo) (02/21/90)
In article <90021712385251@masnet.uucp> david.schreiber@canremote.uucp (DAVID SCHREIBER) writes: > > Your explanation of why Atari releases products in Europe before Noth >America isn't too convincing. Atari does NOT regard N.A. as a >potentially larger market than Europe, since they do very little to >supply and service N.A. Something like 90% of sales are in Europe. The >real difference is that in Europe Atari is established as a machine that >can do serious work, it got in before IBM and the Macintosh and is doing >well; whereas in N.A. it has a poor profile and marketing is a constant >upward battle. This is undoubtedly part of the answer. The explanation I have heard from people who study the personal computer market (and this is the one that makes the most sense to me) is pretty simple: Europeans have less disposable income than Americans. Period. If the European user wants to buy a PC, he cannot afford the cost of an IBM or Mac. (And if you think they are ridiculously priced *here*...try going to Europe sometime and pricing a Mac...if you can find one.) So they buy the lesser priced Atari's and Amigas. Now, if that is the reason, we may see all of this change as Europe becomes an even larger financial center in the 90's. (Reunification of Germany, Europe common market, etc.) There may be more disposable income to go around... - Rob DeMillo | Internet: rjd@brown.cs.edu Brown University | BITnet: DEMILLO%BRNPSG.SPAN@STAR.STANFORD.EDU Planetary Science Group | Reality: 401-273-0804 (home) "I say you *are* the Messiah, Lord! And I ought to know, I've followed a few!"
csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Claus Brod ) (02/22/90)
rjd@cs.brown.edu (Rob Demillo) writes: >The explanation I have heard from people who study the >personal computer market (and this is the one that makes the most >sense to me) is pretty simple: Europeans have less disposable income >than Americans. Period. If the European user wants to buy a PC, he >cannot afford the cost of an IBM or Mac. (And if you think they are >ridiculously priced *here*...try going to Europe sometime and >pricing a Mac...if you can find one.) So they buy the lesser priced >Atari's and Amigas. Another part of the answer may be: We had an enourmous 64 underground scene here in Germany. When the ST came out, most cracking groups and most hackers readily accepted it. They bought it because they knew at once that this might be THEIR computer. It was and is cheap, it is fast and relatively easy to program. They crawled deeply into the machine and wrote the first programs before ATARI came out with anything decent. This in turn triggered the user market to grow and set the pace for the rest of Europe. For some reason, this didn't happen in the U.S. Maybe all the 64 hackers had already bought PCs before the ST came out. Claus Brod ----------------------------------------------------------- I don't know what I mean and I hate standard disclaimers. >Now, if that is the reason, we may see all of this change as Europe >becomes an even larger financial center in the 90's. (Reunification >of Germany, Europe common market, etc.) There may be more >disposable income to go around... > - Rob DeMillo | Internet: rjd@brown.cs.edu > Brown University | BITnet: DEMILLO%BRNPSG.SPAN@STAR.STANFORD.EDU > Planetary Science Group | Reality: 401-273-0804 (home) >"I say you *are* the Messiah, Lord! And I ought to know, I've followed a few!"