MBERNAR@ERENJ.BITNET (Marcelino Bernardo) (03/17/90)
Bruce Szablak complained about what he termed as "shadowing" in multisync monitors when used in the ST hi rez mode. My guess is that this is a problem with the cable instead of the monitor. Most cables I've seen don't use 75 Ohm coax cable for the monochrome video output. This impedance mismatch between the ST's video output and the monitor's input results in the "shadows" in the horizontal direction. This effect is more noticable in the high rez mode since the scan rate (I can't remember the exact number) is much higher that the medium and low rez modes. In addition, the common practice of connecting the monochrome signal to the Red, Blue and Green video inputs of a multisync monitors adds to the mismatch. Regards, Marcelino Bernardo mbernar@erenj.bitnet
Z4648252@SFAUSTIN.BITNET (Z4648252) (03/17/90)
I know that multisync monitor recommendations are probably becoming
old, I'd like to hit on this a bit more if it is ok.
I've been loaned a Mitsubishi Diamond Scan and would like to note some
disappointments, but only in monochrome mode. There is no shadowing but
the characters are just not sharp enough. Also to keep the proper balance
between brightness/contrast and sharpness, the brightness/contrast ratio
needs to be rather low or one gets a terrible blooming effect and the
characters begin to blur. On the other hand the monitor is far superior
to the Atari RGB monitor in color mode, one can change screen sizes, and
video from a VCR is marvelous.
The Diamond Scan has spoiled me to multisync's though.
Could some brave soul offer a recommendation of a monitor that gives
the best 'power without the price'? Would it be the NEC 3D? My wants are
for me to not lose anything on output quality, either in RGB or monochrome
mode. RGB needs to be crisp and in color just as it is on the Diamond
Scan and monochrome needs to be as sharp as it is on the Atari monochrome
monitors. The NEC 3D has been mentioned. I'd like to know if it meets
the above 'requirements'. If it does not, I'll just keep the Diamond
Scan and get a monochrome unit bringing us up to another recommendation, what
would be recommendations for monochrome? I don't trust the Atari monochrome
boxes anymore (short life span-- 1 1/2 years then flyback dies).
Many thanks for recommendations. If this has been kicked heavily on
the net before, then reply to me directly to avoid wasting of space and time
on the net. Also, I'll be more than happy to sum up and post on the net
recommendations that answer the following:
1. Is the color RGB output as good as the Atari color RGB?
2. Is the monochrome output as good as the Atari monochrome unit's output?
3. What would be recommendations for a monochrome replacement?
Thanks again...
Larry Rymal: |East Texas Atari 68NNNers| <Z4648252@SFAUSTIN.BITNET>hyc@math.lsa.umich.edu (Howard Chu) (03/19/90)
I'm somewhat interested in this topic, since I plan to be picking up a few more STs soon and don't want to give up any functionality by splitting up my two Atari monitors just yet. But just a side comment; Larry Rymal mentioned Atari monochrome monitors dying after 1-1/2 years. I've had mine since summer '87, and it's been working fine for a long time, with many periods of extensive use, merciless tweaking ( }-) ), etc... But, I'm still interested in having all 3 resolutions available on one monitor, provided I don't lose the clarity I've gotten used to on the monochrome. So please, someone, post a summary, eh? -- -- Howard Chu @ University of Michigan
boyd@fsucs.cs.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd) (03/21/90)
In article <11443@stag.math.lsa.umich.edu>, hyc@math.lsa.umich.edu (Howard Chu) writes: > >But, I'm still interested in having all 3 resolutions available on one >monitor, provided I don't lose the clarity I've gotten used to on the >monochrome. So please, someone, post a summary, eh? >-- > -- Howard Chu @ University of Michigan I believe you MUST lose clarity on the monochrome image when viewed on a color monitor, because of the color mask (little RGB dots) that is overlayed on the screen itself (extremely bad description, but I hope you get the idea). Any color monitor with a fine enough color mask to be unnoticeable in mono mode would be extremely expensive, if it exists. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- Mickey Boyd | "Nobody can be exactly like me. FSU Computer Science | Even I have trouble doing it." mail: boyd@fsucs.cs.fsu.edu | - Tallulah Bankhead ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
mccann@rbdc (Mike McCann) (03/21/90)
have a 3D and have in the past had both the Goldstar and Samsung Atari color monitors, and the Goldstar sm124. I think the 3D beats them all, easily, in all modes, and is 14" not 12 to boot. The digital screen controls are really neat, and this should work with any new atari machines also. Really cost effective vs. two el cheapo (made) atari monitors, NEC is QUALITY. EOFZZ
mccann@rbdc (Mike McCann) (03/21/90)
hyc@math.lsa.umich.edu (Howard Chu) writes: >I'm somewhat interested in this topic, since I plan to be picking up a >few more STs soon and don't want to give up any functionality by splitting >up my two Atari monitors just yet. But just a side comment; Larry Rymal >mentioned Atari monochrome monitors dying after 1-1/2 years. I've had mine >since summer '87, and it's been working fine for a long time, with many >periods of extensive use, merciless tweaking ( }-) ), etc... >But, I'm still interested in having all 3 resolutions available on one >monitor, provided I don't lose the clarity I've gotten used to on the >monochrome. So please, someone, post a summary, eh? >-- > -- Howard Chu @ University of MichiganWell, I personally think the 3D is CLEARER than the sm124. I never really liked the sm124's really small (to me) size, even tweaked up big as it'd go. But the 3D has a big 14" screen that it lets you use most of (a good FULL 13" anyway) and feels "workstation-like" compared to the sm124. EOF
hyc@math.lsa.umich.edu (Howard Chu) (03/22/90)
In article <9003210448.AA04440@fsucs.cs.fsu.edu> boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd) writes: >I believe you MUST lose clarity on the monochrome image when viewed on a >color monitor, because of the color mask (little RGB dots) that is overlayed >on the screen itself (extremely bad description, but I hope you get the idea). >Any color monitor with a fine enough color mask to be unnoticeable in mono >mode would be extremely expensive, if it exists. But there are monitors around (like the original NEC Multisync) with a monochrome mode switch, which let you select which of the 3 color guns to use to emulate monochrome. (You could activate all 3, but that would be self-defeating in this case.) If you only activated one, then you should have a pretty fine resolution, yes? -- -- Howard Chu @ University of Michigan
bwhite@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU (Bill White) (03/22/90)
In article <9003210448.AA04440@fsucs.cs.fsu.edu>, boyd@fsucs.cs.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd) writes: > > I believe you MUST lose clarity on the monochrome image when viewed on a > color monitor, because of the color mask (little RGB dots) that is overlayed > on the screen itself (extremely bad description, but I hope you get the idea). > Any color monitor with a fine enough color mask to be unnoticeable in mono > mode would be extremely expensive, if it exists. > Since the resolution of the Nec Multisync 3D and several others are around 1024x768 or so, and since this is almost twice the res of the ST's "mono" mode, this amounts to around two by two pixel groups (a group is 1 red, 1 green, 1 blue) at the bare minimum. In reality, just one pixel group per displayed dot looks bad, so the 1024x768 resolution may have more in which case there's more than four pixel groups per ST Monochrome dot. In any case, this is on the same level as the sharpness of a scanline boundary on the ST's mono monitor, if not better. I've seen several Multisync monitors running monochrome modes of far higher resolution than the ST, and with just as much clarity. It is true, however, that because the ST was not "built" to work with another monitor, impedence mismatches, interference, etc. can and will cause some problems. For instance, "ringing" due to impedence mismatch and other factors seems to cause a shadow effect (I could be wrong about the cause, this is speculation from knowledge of RF circuitry). For this reason, it's very important to pay attention to ground paths, circuitry, etc. PS: No, I'm not associated with NEC. I just like their monitors. -- | Bill White Internet: bwhite@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu | | LAW OF THE INDIVIDUAL: | | Nobody really cares or understands what anyone | | else is doing. |
boyd@fsucs.cs.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd) (03/23/90)
In article <1225@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU>, bwhite@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU (Bill White) writes: >true, however, that because the ST was not "built" to work with another >monitor, impedence mismatches, interference, etc. can and will cause some >problems. For instance, "ringing" due to impedence mismatch and other >factors seems to cause a shadow effect (I could be wrong about the cause, >this is speculation from knowledge of RF circuitry). For this reason, >it's very important to pay attention to ground paths, circuitry, etc. > >PS: No, I'm not associated with NEC. I just like their monitors. > > > >-- >| Bill White Internet: bwhite@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu | >| LAW OF THE INDIVIDUAL: | >| Nobody really cares or understands what anyone | >| else is doing. | Do you know if either of the two Multisync adaptors for the ST (that I know of) advertised in E.A. Brown do a good job of what you describe? I hope to get a Multisync sometime in the near future. Oh, thanks to you and Howard for correcting me. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- Mickey Boyd | "Nobody can be exactly like me. FSU Computer Science | Even I have trouble doing it." mail: boyd@fsucs.cs.fsu.edu | - Tallulah Bankhead ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------------