kacovert@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (05/29/90)
Cut Atari some slack about the TT!!!! Sure, the TT isn't out yet. But neither is the Mac '030 line, really. Sure, the machine's out. But the OS isn't. The OS that's running on the Mac's currently doesn't use any of the features of the 030. The first OS that will take advantage of these features won't be released until this fall - about the same time the TT is going to be released. Sure the Amiga 3000 is out with an 030 and I believe they have a true 030 OS with it. But I don't know of anywhere that the common user can buy one yet. They're just not available yet. So, you might be asking, why hasn't Atari released the TT like everyone else and then finished the OS later (just like Mac did). The reason is simple. Atari's philosophy is to put the OS in ROM, not to load it in off of disk. This architecture has some real advantages which I won't discuss here. Anyway, this causes the small problem that the OS must be finished before they can release the machine, because replacing the ROM chips for all users is both a pain and infeasible. So, my point is, when you get down to it, everyone's 030 machines are going to be coming out at approximately the same time. Just give Atari a chance. Kent Covert Miami University Oxford, Ohio (Miami's in Ohio, Dammit!)
rehrauer@apollo.HP.COM (Steve Rehrauer) (05/29/90)
In article <1462.266237b4@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu> kacovert@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu writes: >Cut Atari some slack about the TT!!!! > >Sure, the TT isn't out yet. But neither is the Mac '030 line, really. Sure, >the machine's out. But the OS isn't. The OS that's running on the Mac's >currently doesn't use any of the features of the 030. The first OS that will >take advantage of these features won't be released until this fall - about >the same time the TT is going to be released. What "features" are you referring to, aside from 32-bit addressing? And I trust you're not suggesting there's no advantage to running XYZ software on a 16-40MHz '030 versus a vanilla 8-16MHz 68000? >Sure the Amiga 3000 is out with an 030 and I believe they have a true 030 OS >with it. But I don't know of anywhere that the common user can buy one yet. >They're just not available yet. Shipping date for the A3000 is said to be July. A3000 demo units are on display now at your nearest Commodore dealer. Based on past history, especially recent past history, I tend to believe Commodore when they say "available on X date". More than I believe Atari, which has had the TT "pending" for a couple of years now. (Longer than that, if you count the years when it was going to be an '020-based machine.) In the meantime, you're quite able to buy an A2000 or A2500 (68000-based) and an '020 or '030 card, which are not hacks requiring you to unsolder this & cut that & bend there, and which are available from Commodore themselves or 3rd party vendors. >So, my point is, when you get down to it, everyone's 030 machines are going >to be coming out at approximately the same time. Just give Atari a chance. Clearly, here's a man who's suffering from early morning caffeine-deprivation syndrome. Are you also a Cubs fan, by any chance? :-) Gee, must be getting close to summer again... -- >>"Aaiiyeeee! Death from above!"<< | (Steve) rehrauer@apollo.hp.com "Spontaneous human combustion - what luck!"| Apollo Computer (Hewlett-Packard)
jdutka@wpi.wpi.edu (John Dutka) (05/29/90)
In article <1462.266237b4@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu> kacovert@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu writes: >Sure the Amiga 3000 is out with an 030 and I believe they have a true 030 OS >with it. But I don't know of anywhere that the common user can buy one yet. >They're just not available yet. They will be in July (if I'm wrong, please, some one in C-A correct me.) -- | husc6!m2c!wpi!jdutka | "Hey, baby - wanna do some HEAT TRANSFER? | | jdutka@wpi.wpi.edu | Heh, heh, heh!" | | John Dutka, Jr. | -Mechanical Engineers On The Prowl | | jdutka%wpi.wpi.edu%mitvma.bitnet___________________________________________|
csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Claus Brod ) (05/30/90)
kacovert@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu writes: >Sure, the TT isn't out yet. But neither is the Mac '030 line, really. Sure, >the machine's out. But the OS isn't. The OS that's running on the Mac's >currently doesn't use any of the features of the 030. The first OS that will >take advantage of these features won't be released until this fall - about >the same time the TT is going to be released. The difference is: The Amiga OS has been 020-compatible since V1.0, if not 030-compatible. The same holds true for the Mac OS which has been 020/030- compatible for a long time. TOS, however, has had to be adapted to the 68030 because of its short-sighted design in previous versions. Moreover, we have heard about the TT since 1988; and it has been announced to appear RSN since early 1989. In contrast, Commodore didn't announce anything about the Amiga3000 until now; even at the CeBIT 1990, they didn't tell the press anything about it. One month later, the machine simply was THERE. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Claus Brod, Am Felsenkeller 2, Things. Take. Time. D-8772 Marktheidenfeld, West Germany (Stolen from unknown.) csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de ----------------------------------------------------------------------
mitsolid@acf5.NYU.EDU (Thanasis Mitsolides) (05/30/90)
/* kacovert@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu / 9:49 am May 29, 1990 */ > The OS that's running on the Mac's > currently doesn't use any of the features of the 030. The first OS that will t> ake advantage of these features won't be released until this fall - about th> e same time the TT is going to be released. Now, there is a novel idea: Never use something at all unless you can use it completely. But let us be really optimistic and say that the TT will be released this year. Do you think that there is more than one chance in a trillion that it will have a version of TOS which supports multitasking and virtual memory? You can't be serious. Thanasis PS There is Unix for the Mac/30s which can also run multiple MACOSs in windows.
phoenix@ms.uky.edu (R'ykandar Korra'ti) (05/30/90)
In article <1462.266237b4@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu> kacovert@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu writes: >Cut Atari some slack about the TT!!!! I agree in some ways; though I agree that it is well and firmly late, it won't do any good to whine about it, plus, this might mean that they're planning on releasing it: 1) When it's damn well ready, and 2) Not one minute before. Better late than buggy. >Sure the Amiga 3000 is out with an 030 and I believe they have a true 030 OS >with it. But I don't know of anywhere that the common user can buy one yet. >They're just not available yet. The Amiga 2500/30 (the first Amiga with a 68030) has been out and commonly available for many months. All versions of AmigaDOS will utilize the capabilities of the 68030 (with the exception of the "calculator" programme in ye old version 1.1. It would blow up. Some people's kids... :-) ) What you're talking about is AmigaDOS V2.0, which revamps the look of Workbench dramatically and adds a whole list of goodies that nobody on this list could possibly care less about. :-) >So, you might be asking, why hasn't Atari released the TT like everyone else >and then finished the OS later (just like Mac did). The reason is simple. >Atari's philosophy is to put the OS in ROM, not to load it in off of disk. Most of the Apple and Amiga operating systems are also in ROM. >This architecture has some real advantages which I won't discuss here. Anyway, >this causes the small problem that the OS must be finished before they can >release the machine, because replacing the ROM chips for all users is both >a pain and infeasible. Actually, it's neither, as long as you socket the silly things. It's really rather quick and easy - and certainly simpler than reformating and reinstalling one's hard drive, as SOME people's changes in operating system have more or less required (we don't need to mention any companies now, do we? Even if their initials start with I or M....) :-) - R'ykandar. -- | R'ykandar Korra'ti | Editor, LOW ORBIT | PLink: Skywise | CIS 72406,370 | | Elfinkind, Unite! | phoenix@ms.uky.edu | phoenix%ms.uky.edu@ukcc.bitnet | | "Careful, mom, the toys are loose!" - from The Wizard of Speed and Time |
kibo@pawl.rpi.edu (James 'Kibo' Parry) (05/30/90)
In article <1462.266237b4@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu> kacovert@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu writes: >Cut Atari some slack about the TT!!!! Atari's got tons of slack--after all, it's owned by J. R. "Bob" Dobbs himself! (If you haven't yet found the "Bob" face in your ST's system font, the latest Stark Fist of Removal gave a hefty little LOGO program that will pop him up on the screen for you. Why did Atari give away LOGO instead of something slackful like COBOL though?) -- james "kibo" parry, 138 birch lane, scotia, ny 12302 <-- close to schenectady. kibo@pawl.rpi.edu _________________________________________________ kibo%pawl.rpi.edu@rpi.edu / Kibology / Anything I say is my opinion, userfe0n@rpitsmts.bitnet / is better! / and is the opposite of Xibo's.
Metalist@cup.portal.com (Bryan Jones Woodworth) (05/30/90)
>...Ataris TT will be released this fall. So dont worry, evreryones >030 will be out at the same time. Give Atari a chance. Cool! A date. ok so this Fall it will be out?.. I have heard rumours forever regarding its big show..
uace0@uhnix2.uh.edu (Michael B. Vederman) (05/31/90)
In article <30318@cup.portal.com> Metalist@cup.portal.com (Bryan Jones Woodworth) writes: >>...Ataris TT will be released this fall. So dont worry, evreryones >>030 will be out at the same time. Give Atari a chance. > >Cool! A date. ok so this Fall it will be out?.. I have heard rumours forever >regarding its big show.. Just spoke to someone in the 'know' at Atari yesterday about the TT. TT's this fall? Dunno, seems plausible. As a real developer, we are on the list. I was told that it is being designed/ prepared for release in the US FIRST! And it is being readied for FCC approval. Developers will be getting theirs soon. How soon? Soon... If the US doesn't get it first, the US will at least get it at the same time as the rest of the world... - mike -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Double Click Me | Double Click Software | P.O. Box 741206 | Houston, Tx, 77274 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Voice: (713)645-3759 | DC DESKTOP | DC FORMATTER | DC UTILITIES | and others
Bryan_Jones_Woodworth@cup.portal.com (06/01/90)
>I talked to a source at Atari. When will the TT be released? Soon.
Ah! I hope. How much? What exactly is a "TT"? I suspect it is a direct
competitor with the Amiga 3ooo?marclaan@neabbs.UUCP (MARC LAAN) (06/01/90)
TT will be presented to the press here in Holland at june 7th, at Atari office. Production starts same month in Taiwan. First machines will be flown in end of month. Regular sales in August, that is: in Holland. First machines ofcourse are handmade models. Regular shipments are massproduction. Price is not coming down before fall. ---> Marc Laan, Amstrdam. Holland.
rehrauer@apollo.HP.COM (Steve Rehrauer) (06/01/90)
In article <30379@cup.portal.com> Bryan_Jones_Woodworth@cup.portal.com writes: >>I talked to a source at Atari. When will the TT be released? Soon. > >Ah! I hope. How much? What exactly is a "TT"? I suspect it is a direct >competitor with the Amiga 3ooo? I'm tempted to flippantly say that the TT is whatever the Atari paparazzi need it to be, to sustain the One True Faith. Actually, only Atari knows exactly what a TT will be, and perhaps even they don't know yet. Prototypes have been shopped around to developers & magazines, but it's far from clear that those bear any resemblance to whatever will finally get dropped off at your Local Authorized Atari Dealers (wherever they might be). START magazine had a look at such a prototype a few months ago, and babbled a bit about the guts of it. Sounds to me like the 520ST of the 90's (basically a closed box, w/ twiddled TOS, w/ 16 MHz 68030 & a few graphics tweaks); read that as you may. In short: you want speculation, we got it aplenty. Facts, those require patience. And Faith. -- >>"Aaiiyeeee! Death from above!"<< | (Steve) rehrauer@apollo.hp.com "Spontaneous human combustion - what luck!"| Apollo Computer (Hewlett-Packard)
cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Christopher M Mauritz) (06/01/90)
In article <30379@cup.portal.com> Bryan_Jones_Woodworth@cup.portal.com writes: >>I talked to a source at Atari. When will the TT be released? Soon. > >Ah! I hope. How much? What exactly is a "TT"? I suspect it is a direct >competitor with the Amiga 3ooo? Hehe, it only hurts when I laugh...sigh... Chris ------------------------------+--------------------------- Chris Mauritz |Donde hay una cerveza cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu |hay un plan. (c)All rights reserved. | Send flames to /dev/null |El Guerrero Aereo es el rey! ------------------------------+---------------------------
rehrauer@apollo.HP.COM (Steve Rehrauer) (06/01/90)
In article <395848@neabbs.UUCP> marclaan@neabbs.UUCP (MARC LAAN) writes: >TT will be presented to the press here in Holland at june 7th, at >Atari office. Production starts same month in Taiwan. First machines >will be flown in end of month. Regular sales in August, that is: in >Holland. Ahh, the first Hard Dates! Are these Official Atari Dates? In other words, I can mark "TT freely available somewhere in Europe" on August 31st (I'm being generous) of my calendar, and when August 31st rolls around I won't hear, "Awaiting FCC approval", "They're on the boat from Taiwan", "Shortage of gloobenfloogle chips", or any other sentences prefaced with "Sorry"? Household members throughout Europe (or Holland, at any rate) really will be saving their desktops on shiny new '030 Atari machines come September? > First machines ofcourse are handmade models. Regular >shipments are massproduction. This sounds SOOOOOO familiar (anyone remember what the original ST introduction was like?). Perhaps we should have a contest: Who can come closest to guessing the number of mother-board revisions the TT will undergo within a year of its introduction? Okay, it's Friday & sunny; I should lighten up... > Price is not coming down before fall. So, how much? (We geocentric Americans would like a dollar figure, naturally. Or, at least a scale-factor from your currency... :-) -- >>"Aaiiyeeee! Death from above!"<< | (Steve) rehrauer@apollo.hp.com "Spontaneous human combustion - what luck!"| Apollo Computer (Hewlett-Packard)
Metalist@cup.portal.com (Bryan Jones Woodworth) (06/02/90)
>>Cool! Does anyone know what a "TT" is?? >If you want speculation, we got that aplently. If ya want facts, you'll >have to take them on faith. Ick.. so no one really knows hmm? too bad.. so which is better, the STe or TT? logic serves that the STe should be released in the states before the TT right? How long has the STe been releaed outside of the US? If maybe a year or more, than perhaps the TT would be released here and the STe forgotten for U.S. release, so that the U.S. can catch up with the rest of the world? Metalist@cup.portal.com
root@irscscm (Admin) (06/05/90)
In article <1096@uhnix2.uh.edu> uace0@uhnix2.UUCP writes: >Just spoke to someone in the 'know' at Atari yesterday about the TT. > >TT's this fall? Dunno, seems plausible. > >As a real developer, we are on the list. I was told that it is being designed/ >prepared for release in the US FIRST! And it is being readied for FCC approval. > >Developers will be getting theirs soon. How soon? Soon... > >If the US doesn't get it first, the US will at least get it at the same time >as the rest of the world... > Hmm ... I have seen a message someplace, and I think it was here, that developers in Europe are receiving TTs now! Could this be true? >- mike > >-- >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Double Click Me | Double Click Software | P.O. Box 741206 | Houston, Tx, 77274 >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Voice: (713)645-3759 | DC DESKTOP | DC FORMATTER | DC UTILITIES | and others Marshall mlake@irscscm.UUCP
csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Claus Brod ) (06/11/90)
root@irscscm (Admin) writes: >Hmm ... I have seen a message someplace, and I think it was here, that >developers in Europe are receiving TTs now! Could this be true? Some _selected_ developpers, yes. No - not me. (I still doubt if I even _want_ one.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Claus Brod, Am Felsenkeller 2, Things. Take. Time. D-8772 Marktheidenfeld, West Germany (Piet Hein) csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de ----------------------------------------------------------------------