Metalist@cup.portal.com (Bryan Jones Woodworth) (06/30/90)
Due to unprecedented demand, here is the STe summary: Here are the STe summaries you requested. Please note that the postings are not in chronological order. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: daniel@pkmab.se (Daniel Deimert; Orebro Tech. College) In article <30957@cup.portal.com> you write: >Please, inform me: Is the STe incompatible with the ST? Or is this >just a bunch of baloney? Those of you in Europe, Canada and elsewhere >{ave had access to the STe for some time now. What problems does it >possess? I thought it was just an ST, though enhanced with a few extra >goodies like better color and sound and a few extra ports. It is not fully compatible. Games tend to use a lot of non-documented features of the "original" ST, and so they won't work on the STe. I'm currently working{in a local toystore, and around 30 % of the ST games we have DOES NOT work. New games (1990 ->), though, seems to work fairly well. On the whole, the new features DOES NOT impress. The sound is plain raw sampling, which can be played in only five or six different frequencies. And forget about the palette, noone will use it, since it won't work on the ST. Hardware scrolling is nothing to care about, the LYNX do it much better. If you wanna play -- buy an Amiga or a LYNX. Not a STe. The only things which is _really_ good are the blitter and the possibility to upgrade with SIMMs. ---- From: AAron Ya, I've got an RF modulator, and 4 1megx8chip simms in my 1040STe I used two Macintosh 2meg memory upgrade kits, and they are 100ns. I was told not to get any slower than 120ns. yep, once ya got them, ya just pop out the 256x8 simms and pop the new ones in! Cake... Dragon's Lair? no, haven't even heard of that one, so I don't know if it supports the extra colors. BUT I have a friend's SPACE ACE, and it DOES support the xtra colors. Only makes for better fades between scenes (I saw it on a MEGA2 also)... hummm... Metalist, have I seen that name in the music sigs? Do you know Dean Swan? Do you have an ST? ---- From: sun!eua.ericsson.se!Arto.Nummelin Hi, I bought my 520STe in December '89. With it came a bunch of programs called the 'Power Pack'. The games included were Pac-Mania Nebulus Bomb Jack Afterburner Super Hang-on Black Lamp Space Harrier Overlander R-Type Starglider Double Dragon Outrun + 8 more which I can't remember now. Of these R-Type didn't work. I have also downloaded many of the programs from comp.binaries.atari.st and all of them worked except for the 'mem' command in gulam. So as I see it it seems that the STe is almost compatible with the ST and when it isn't I guess it is because the programs use direct adressing of some memory variables instead of using standard system calls. I have upgraded my machine to 2 meg with two SIMM's. Very easy, about 5 min work. I have also connected a 5.25" 360k drive to it by using an old drive from an IBM PC. This works fine if I use a small program which changes the steprate for the B: drive. ---- From: gl8f@astsun7.astro.Virginia.EDU (Greg Lindahl) The "Mega problem" was that games accessed "secret" GEMDOS, VDI, and AES variables at fixed locations in memory... under TOS 1.0. Atari said "don't do that, we are going to move these variables". So when the Megas came out with TOS 1.2, Atari had moved the variables, and a lot of games that had broken the rules broke. There was a short flurry of patches, people explaining how to patch old games to get the variables in the new locations. ---- From: eric@castle.edinburgh.ac.uk Hi! I posted a similar question a couple of months ago (although I don't particularly care about whether ANY games run on the STe as I don't play computer games -- personal taste: I get bored in minutes from most games!). Following is a summary of what I got in response. Good luck! Hope this little bit helps, eric ........oo...ooo..o..o.o...o.o....oooo..oo...o.....o.....ooo..o.............. Eric S Fraga, Department of Chemical Engineering, University of Edinburgh phone: +44 31 667 1081 x2955, e.s.fraga@uk.ac.ed or e.s.fraga@ed.ac.uk ============================================================================= First of all, thanks to everybody that answered my posting. Essentially, the answers to my two questions are: 1. the STe's are compatible with everything I would want one for (mostly editors, compilers, shells, and terminal emulators). 2. all kinds of different answers although Third Coast Technologies got the most votes (not that the number is statistically valid :-). I have included all useful (i.e. > 0 information content :-) responses at the end of this posting. Again, thanks to everybody that answered! eric ---------------------------------------//------------------------------------ ---------------------------------------//------------------------------------ From: Herbert Sauro <eang62@ed.castle> I saw your mail on comp.sys.atari.st concerning STE compatibility. Four things I run regularly are: Mark Williams C - no problems so far TeX from Tools of W. Germany - no problems so far Gulam - if you ask for free mamory it bombs out, otherwise seems ok Prospero Pascal - no problems so far. I think you'll find that the majority of serious software runs without problems. Its probably mainly games which are having problems with compatibility. Basically don't believe what you read in the mags, expecially ST Format and those weeklies. Herbert Sauro Genetics, KB, Edinburgh PS I have a 2MB STE (SM124 of course) + home-made hard disk and I am quite happy with it (especially the price, 450 pounds for 2MB STE). ------------------------------------//------------------------------------ From: olorin@ed.cs.tardis I've just got an STE myself (4 meg 600 quid from best prices). The following stuff I have checked and it appears OK. GCC , Minix , Gulam , TeX ... I'll check Uniterm. Mind you there's a rumour going round of an imminent price increase ... ------------------------------------//------------------------------------ From: "Jwahar R. Bammi" <bammi@edu.cwru.ces.curie> eric, i have second hand report from people who use some of the stuff that i wrote/ported that it all works on the STE (and TT, some of the stuff was shown at Ceebit), this list includes: gulam, gcc, TeX (StTeX, undump, BiBTeX), zmdm (terminal emulator with x/y/z modem). gulam: dont use the 'mem' builtin command, and you'll be ok. no one have reported any other incompatibility. -- bang: {any internet host}!dsrgsun.CES.CWRU.Edu!bammi jwahar r. bammi domain: bammi@dsrgsun.ces.CWRU.edu GEnie: J.Bammi ------------------------------------//------------------------------------ From: Graham Thomas <grahamt@susx.syma> Eric, I'd appreciate it if you'd pass on whatever answers you get. I'm thinking of getting an expanded STE myself. The hard disk question is tricky, isn't it? We've had reasonably good reliability from our Atari SH205s and Megafile 20s, but they lose out a bit on price/performance. Supra disks have been a bit flaky (I know of three which have been ordered. Each has had to be sent back to be replaced. Frontier have been very good with support, and two of the three replacements have been reliable.) The Power Computing disks look tempting in terms of price, but I don't trust the company (not from personal experience - just things I've read about them from other users). The Vortex drives are heavily advertised in German mags, and are probably wery well made, but they're a bit more expensive than others. Third Coast drives might be the best compromise. I've not used any, and the company, I've heard, is a bit small and chaotic, but I've not heard of serious problems or dishonesty. Cheers, Graham ------------------------------------//------------------------------------ From: CSTMCS@stafpol.cr83 Sender: "JANET CSTMCS@UK.AC.STAFPOL.CR83" <CSTMCS@stafpol.cr83> I think the best on the market at the moment is the THird Coast Technologies 65Mb or 85Mb drives. These are reasonably large, and relatively cheap. (65MB = #599, 85MB = #699) Both will take a second internal hard drive, which if it's SCSI embedded, can simply be plugged in. TCT offer a 4.5% educational discount, which you'd probably be able to use if you work at Edinburgh Uni. As an alternative, since the TCT drives are so easily upgradable, you might like to buy a smaller unit, and add an additional drive. In Micro Computer Mart there are regular advertisements for 40Mb Scsi drives for about #100. In the last issue, there was even a 85Mb Nec drive for #150. Finally, the TCT drives are some of the fastest available (typically 25ms) and have favourable reviews in various magazines (ST World, Jun 89 (?), ST User, Aug 89/May 89 etc. THe 85MB has a removable drive mechanism for security. I'll be buying a 65Mb drive next month, so if you get good reviews of other drives, could you forward the details to me, (though I have checked the competition very thouroughly:-) Good luck, Mark ( Computing Services, Staffordshire Polytechnic ) ------------------------------------//------------------------------------ From: SCOFFIN@ox.vax >From : Rob Scoffin Inorganic Chemistry Laboratory Oxford SCOFFIN@uk.ac.oxford.vax I have just read your plea in info-atari16 for largish Atari HD's. We have two 65Mb drives bought from Third Coast Technologies in Bradford (look in any copy of ST User for details). The drives come in pretty "basic" cases but they seem well made and have enough space (and power supply potential) to add a second drive or a tape streamer (TCT sell their disks redy fitted with 40Mb streamers if you like). The disk driver software and utilities provided seem much better than the stuff that comes with the "Real" atari drives.... The last time I looked at their ad's I think they were offering 105Mb (all the way from 20Mb upwards) at quite a reasonable price... So far we have had no problems at all with either drive.... Hope this helps.... Robbie Scoff ================ p.s. Atari's financial health ???? Who does care ???? ------------------------------------//------------------------------------ From: Ralph Haglund <qralph@se.lth.dna> Hi, I am not in England, but I can always say what I would do... Obviously buy a STE520 and put in SIMMs myself. Get a 105Mbyte hard disk from Germany for DM1999. Fast, SCSI. I got an 85Mb in August from that same company that now sells that beast. My disk slowly died with more and more errors (after all it is a Seagate, the 105Mb one isn't... ), returned the whole a few weeks ago to Germany, and a few days back I got paper from the customs here that it was back, they just wanted a few additional papers to show it was a return so I wouldn't have to pay customs twice. Dunno what you plan to do - I occassionally do service on Ataris so I am not afraid of opening them up... |-------------------------------------------------------------| | Want to talk to me? Try: | | QRALPH@SELDC51 || QRALPH@SELDC52 || qralph@dna.lth.se | | My name? In official Sweden it is: 4.901.185.654 (secret) | | Anywhere else: Ralph Haglund | | Disclaimer: If it works, it's out of date. | |_____________________________________________________________| -- ........oo...ooo..o..o.o...o.o....oooo..oo...o.....o.....ooo..o.............. Eric S Fraga, Department of Chemical Engineering, University of Edinburgh phone: +44 31 667 1081 x2955, e.s.fraga@uk.ac.ed or e.s.fraga@ed.ac.uk ---- From : THE SLAYER In message 1972/0/988, METALIST Hey dont tell anyone I told ya, but I heard from a guy in Oregon that th > STE is available in OREGON! The STe is already available, but from what I've read, they aren't all theyre cracked up to be...sure they have stereo and 4096 colors, but you can mod a reg. ST...(i have a tweety board (3D stereo) and a 16Mhz upgrade with Math Coprocessor.)...The bad thing is, the STe has TOS 1.6 which is even worse than TOS 1.4 from what I've read in mags...they had a list (about 2+ pages) of games, VERY recent games, that would not run on the STe...and thats only games...who knows how many utilities, term programs, etc. wont work...they should have had 4096 and stereo from the start, that way everyone would program around the standards the everything would be compatible...that's one area where the Amiga has the ST beat... [] Slayer [] ---- From: sun!eua.ericsson.se!Arto.Nummelin >How long have you had your STe? Since December '89. >Could ya point out the good/bad points. Good: - SIMMs - Blitter included - stereo sound via 2 RCA connectors - 4096 color palette - CPU socketed => easy to add PC emulator - some improvements in TOS: -possible to move filed/folders -(sorry should have been files/folders, I can't edit previous line) -some more I think - plus all the good points of the ST Bad: - not very many programs that uses the new features (color, stereo) - some new bugs in TOS: - sometimes when I double-click on a program, the (SHOW) (PRINT) alert box appears - if I try to access a disk and the disk isn't inserted the (RETRY) (ABORT) alert box appears. If I then click on the (ABORT) the machine very often bombs. If I insert a disk and click (RETRY) everything is ok. >How much did it cost per 1 meg x eight chip SIMM strip? I bought them via an ad. The guy who sold them had ordered them from the USA for I think $89/SIMM. ---- From: clarkson.edu (AAron,,,) I put four 1 meg by 8 chip 100ns SIMMs into my 1040STe and have had no problems accessing the 4meg they give me. They were part of a standard Macintosh memory upgrade kit. You must get EIGHT chip SIMMs (like the Mac needs) for your STe, NOT NINE (Like the IBM needs) or TWELVE(like the DEC Rainbows need). The extra chip on the 9 chip SIMMs lets the computer detect most memory access errors, (Due to solar flairs or a disturbance in the force, or just because it wanted to flip!) because it holds the parity bits.. The 12 chip SIMMs have the extra 4 chips to not only DETECT the errors, but to even CORRECT them!! I purchased TWO: MICRON TECHNOLOGY, INC. PC Enhancement Product Xceed 2MB Memory Expansion Kit(s) for Mac II SE/Plus (Low Profile) They have worked perfectly for me, and people are wondering what works. This is the reason I am bringing this information forward. I'm not a "I liked it so much I bought the company" ... ---- From: sun!eua.ericsson.se!Arto.Nummelin > Thanks for the information! Could I ask you how you upgrade using SIMMS?? I opened the case by removing 7 (i think) screws. (One screwhole was covered by a Atari seal, so I guess don't have any guarantee for the machine anymore) I then removed a shielding plate fastened by 4 screws. Then I took away the 2 256k*8 SIMMS and replaced them with 2 1M*8 SIMMs (the Mac type, but if you get hold of 1M*9 SIMMs, they can also be used although one bit is unused). I tried to put the 256k*8 SIMMs in the 2 empty slots but that didn't work, the machine kept rebooting. So I sold my 256k*8 SIMMs unfortunately, since I saw later in a comp.sys.atari.st article that someone had a little program that made it possible to mix the two types of SIMM's. Well after putting back the shielding plate and the cover I now have a 2080STe. When I get enough money I`ll buy 2MB more so I can use some of the more memory consuming programs like GNU C++ or GNU Smalltalk. Since I don't have a harddisk I also use Ramdisk which takes a lot of memory. Hope this clarified something. ---- *** END OF STe SUMMARIES ***