johns@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Conan the Barbarian) (08/05/90)
I had in mind to buy Lattice C v5 but I was a little leary after reading the box. How closely does it comply to the ANSI standard? I thik the wording on the box says that it conforms 'closely.' How close is close? I talked to a dealer here in Canada yesterday about the TT. He is going to see it on Wednesday. We talked about the TT a little and he was very adamant that there is no such thing as a 32Mhz TT or a 32Mhz 68030 for that matter. He said Motorola might have licensed a 33 Mhz chip, but at that speed it is very unreliable and so we'll probably never see one. Personally, I take what this guy says with a grain of salt. A grain the size cows used to lick on, back on the farm where I come from. :-) Anyway, what's the deal? Does this guy know what he is talking about or should I just ignore him? Thanks for the input. -- John Schmitt johns@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca ...!unet!utai!utgpu!maccs!johns SCHMITTJ@SCIvax.McMaster.CA
onders@taac.ipl.rpi.edu (Timothy E. Onders) (08/06/90)
In article <26BC2055.28872@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca> johns@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Conan the Barbarian) writes: >very adamant that there is no such thing as a 32Mhz TT or a 32Mhz 68030 for >that matter. He said Motorola might have licensed a 33 Mhz chip, but at that >speed it is very unreliable and so we'll probably never see one. Don't believe him. The Macintosh II-FX has been shipping with a -40- Mhz 68030 for some time now, and I can tell you it's perfectly reliable (we had one running for 18 days straight on a major problem with no trouble.) Motorola has always done good design work allowing their chips to be excessivly over-clocked. -Tim
chen@digital.sps.mot.com (Jinfu Chen) (08/07/90)
In article <26BC2055.28872@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca> johns@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Conan the Barbarian) writes: >that matter. He said Motorola might have licensed a 33 Mhz chip, but at that >speed it is very unreliable and so we'll probably never see one. Just for the record 33Mhz '030 has been in production for months if not years :-). HP/Apollo has several workstations built around the 33Mhz chip as well as the 50Mhz chip (that I don't know if in production or not). > Personally, >I take what this guy says with a grain of salt. A grain the size cows used >to lick on, back on the farm where I come from. :-) Totally agree. :-) -- Jinfu Chen (602)898-5338 | Motorola, Inc. SPS Mesa, AZ | ...uunet!motsps!digital!chen | chen@digital.sps.mot.com | CMS: RXFR30 at MESAVM | ----------
wilko@idca.tds.PHILIPS.nl (W.C. Bulte) (08/07/90)
In article <4c0aa395.12c9a@digital.sps.mot.com> chen@digital.sps.mot.com (Jinfu Chen) writes: >In article <26BC2055.28872@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca> johns@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Conan the Barbarian) writes: >>that matter. He said Motorola might have licensed a 33 Mhz chip, but at that >>speed it is very unreliable and so we'll probably never see one. > >Just for the record 33Mhz '030 has been in production for months if not >years :-). HP/Apollo has several workstations built around the 33Mhz chip as >well as the 50Mhz chip (that I don't know if in production or not). By walking into a room nextdoor, I can see a very real 68030/50Mc. They are in (limited??) production by Motorola allright! > >-- >Jinfu Chen (602)898-5338 | >Motorola, Inc. SPS Mesa, AZ | > ...uunet!motsps!digital!chen | _ _____________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte Domain: wilko@idca.tds.philips.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) uucp : [mcsun,hp4nl]!philapd!wilko * Philips Information Systems Nederland * Hardware Development Department, Apeldoorn, bldg V1-B1, ph 055-432652 >> There is no problem a good miracle can't solve << ___________________________________________________________________________
baffoni@aludra.usc.edu (Juxtaposer) (08/07/90)
In article <26BC2055.28872@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca> johns@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Conan the Barbarian) writes: > I talked to a dealer here in Canada yesterday about the TT. He is >going to see it on Wednesday. We talked about the TT a little and he was >very adamant that there is no such thing as a 32Mhz TT or a 32Mhz 68030 for >that matter. He said Motorola might have licensed a 33 Mhz chip, but at that >speed it is very unreliable and so we'll probably never see one. Personally, Hmmm... doesn't the MacIIfx use a 40MHz 68030? If so, I don't think they have had much of a problem with reliability. Price on the other hand.... Whether or not Atari has gotten a 32MHz '30 to work AT 32Mhz on the TT (yah, I know, some of you are saying "What TT?") is something yet to be seen, officially anyway. >I take what this guy says with a grain of salt. A grain the size cows used >to lick on, back on the farm where I come from. :-) > > Anyway, what's the deal? Does this guy know what he is talking >about or should I just ignore him? Thanks for the input. Ignore him, it works for me! :) >-- >John Schmitt >johns@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca >...!unet!utai!utgpu!maccs!johns >SCHMITTJ@SCIvax.McMaster.CA -Mike baffoni@aludra.usc.edu or mbaffoni@skat.usc.edu
AlexK@tharr.UUCP (Alex Kiernan) (08/07/90)
In article <26BC2055.28872@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca> johns@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Conan the Barbarian) writes: > > > I had in mind to buy Lattice C v5 but I was a little leary after >reading the box. How closely does it comply to the ANSI standard? I thik >the wording on the box says that it conforms 'closely.' How close is close? Very close, the compiler misses on trigraphs and wide characters. Also the representation of float/double is not spot on. The libraries are, as far as I am aware, fully conformant. The current release is 5.04.01, which these comments relate to. I should mention the product is my responsibility. Alex Kiernan, HiSoft.
bill@mwca.UUCP (Bill Sheppard) (08/07/90)
In article <26BC2055.28872@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca> johns@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Conan the Barbarian) writes: > > > I had in mind to buy Lattice C v5 but I was a little leary after >reading the box. How closely does it comply to the ANSI standard? I thik >the wording on the box says that it conforms 'closely.' How close is close? Frankly, in my fairly extensive experience with compilers, there aren't too many _truly_ ANSI C compilers yet. ANSI took several years to finally ratify a standard, so many compilers are what is known as ANSI Draft, which is an earlier version of the standard. In my opinion "close" is probably going to serve you pretty well unless you have a source file you need to port to the ST which utilizes some ANSI features not present in Lattice or other compilers. > I talked to a dealer here in Canada yesterday about the TT. He is >going to see it on Wednesday. We talked about the TT a little and he was >very adamant that there is no such thing as a 32Mhz TT or a 32Mhz 68030 for >that matter. He said Motorola might have licensed a 33 Mhz chip, but at that >speed it is very unreliable and so we'll probably never see one... Many companies have purchased 33 MHz 68030's from Motorola - I work with many VME boards, and virtually every VME maker has 33 MHz 68030 boards available. 50 MHz 68030's are available from a few vendors, also. I see no possible way the chip can be considered "very unreliable" - most of the major defense firms are using this chip in a wide range of projects. (Please, no flames about the potential lack of reliability or acuity among defense firms!) >John Schmitt >johns@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca -- ################################################################################ # Bill Sheppard -- bill@mwca.microware.com -- {uunet,sun}!mcrware!mwca!bill # # Microware Systems Corporation --- OS-9: Seven generations beyond __/_!! # #######Opinions expressed are my own, though you'd be wise to adopt them!#######
cse0071@uoft02.utoledo.edu (08/08/90)
In article <26BC2055.28872@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca>, johns@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Conan the Barbarian) writes: > > > I talked to a dealer here in Canada yesterday about the TT. He is > going to see it on Wednesday. We talked about the TT a little and he was > very adamant that there is no such thing as a 32Mhz TT or a 32Mhz 68030 for > that matter. He said Motorola might have licensed a 33 Mhz chip, but at that > speed it is very unreliable and so we'll probably never see one. Personally, > I take what this guy says with a grain of salt. A grain the size cows used > to lick on, back on the farm where I come from. :-) I've seen 50MHz 68030's in different literature so they can definatley go that fast, and I believe 32MHz is correct, it was intel that went for the odd 33Mhz
chuck@umbc5.umbc.edu (Chuck Rickard; (PC)) (08/08/90)
I just heard from an American Atari dealer today that the TT will have a 32 mhz processor in it, but the system board will still run at 16 mhz. They will be doing this by implementing a cache along the same lines as the Fast T-16 board. I actually wonder how much of an increase in speed this will give us. Anyone care to guess? Chuck Rickard (chuck@umbc5.umbc.edu)
jensting@skinfaxe.diku.dk (Jens Tingleff) (08/08/90)
johns@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Conan the Barbarian) writes: [..] >that matter. He said Motorola might have licensed a 33 Mhz chip, but at that >speed it is very unreliable and so we'll probably never see one. Personally, Arrghh, will this mean that our new HP machine with a 50 MHz 68030 is no good ????????????? ;-) Jens Jens Tingleff MSc EE, Institute of Computer Science, Copenhagen University Snail mail: DIKU Universitetsparken 1 DK2100 KBH O "It never runs around here; it just comes crashing down" apologies to Dire Straits
wwm@pmsmam.uucp (Bill Meahan) (08/08/90)
In article <1990Aug7.151129.1405@uoft02.utoledo.edu> cse0071@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes: >In article <26BC2055.28872@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca>, > > I've seen 50MHz 68030's in different literature so they can definatley >go that fast, and I believe 32MHz is correct, it was intel that went for the >odd 33Mhz The HP 9000/370 sitting next to me as I write this uses a 32 MHz 68030. The 9000/375 (Now shipping) uses a 50 MHz 68030 and has provisions for a 25 MHz 68040 to be swapped in. HP is very conservative so if THEY are shipping 50 MHz 68030's, they must not only be real, but RELIABLE! -- Bill Meahan WA8TZG uunet!mailrus!umich!pmsmam!wwm I don't speak for Ford - the PR department does that! Any attempt at wit is liable to offend _somebody_!
rehrauer@apollo.HP.COM (Steve Rehrauer) (08/08/90)
In article <26BC2055.28872@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca> johns@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Conan the Barbarian) writes: > I talked to a dealer here in Canada yesterday about the TT. He is >going to see it on Wednesday. We talked about the TT a little and he was >very adamant that there is no such thing as a 32Mhz TT or a 32Mhz 68030 for >that matter. He said Motorola might have licensed a 33 Mhz chip, but at that >speed it is very unreliable and so we'll probably never see one. Personally, >I take what this guy says with a grain of salt. A grain the size cows used >to lick on, back on the farm where I come from. :-) Huhh -- Motorola is selling 50MHz '030s, for that matter. -- >>"Aaiiyeeee! Death from above!"<< | (Steve) rehrauer@apollo.hp.com "Spontaneous human combustion - what luck!"| Apollo Computer (Hewlett-Packard)
shipley@tron.UUCP (Bill Shipley) (08/08/90)
I don't think it really matters what kind of performance increase the 32MHZ 68030 will yield. Atari will now be able to claim a 32 MHZ processor and that should be enough to satisfy all the people ranting and raving about the TT having "only" a 16 MHZ processor. Bill Shipley
rehrauer@apollo.HP.COM (Steve Rehrauer) (08/08/90)
In article <4c0aa395.12c9a@digital.sps.mot.com> chen@digital.sps.mot.com (Jinfu Chen) writes: >In article <26BC2055.28872@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca> johns@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Conan the Barbarian) writes: >>that matter. He said Motorola might have licensed a 33 Mhz chip, but at that >>speed it is very unreliable and so we'll probably never see one. > >Just for the record 33Mhz '030 has been in production for months if not >years :-). HP/Apollo has several workstations built around the 33Mhz chip as >well as the 50Mhz chip (that I don't know if in production or not). I believe these are shipping this month, badged as HP 400DL's or something like that. JFYI. -- >>"Aaiiyeeee! Death from above!"<< | (Steve) rehrauer@apollo.hp.com "Spontaneous human combustion - what luck!"| Apollo Computer (Hewlett-Packard)
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (08/10/90)
In article <1990Aug7.151129.1405@uoft02.utoledo.edu> cse0071@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes: >In article <26BC2055.28872@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca>, > I've seen 50MHz 68030's in different literature so they can definatley >go that fast, and I believe 32MHz is correct, it was intel that went for the >odd 33Mhz No, actually, the 68030s are rated at 33MHz, and that's not an odd number. The deal is, microprocessors aren't technically rated based on clock frequency, since that's rather meaningless to designers, but on clock period. The frequency numbers sound better, because folks like to equate "big" rather than "small" with "better". In the case of the 16MHz part (16.667MHz actually), the clock period is 60ns. Motorola also makes 68030s that clock with clock periods of 50ns (20MHz), 40ns (25MHz), 30ns (33.333MHz), 25ns (40MHz), and 20ns (50MHz). -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy Get that coffee outta my face, put a Margarita in its place!