[comp.sys.atari.st] Need help with ICD Utils

vovut@prism.cs.orst.edu (08/06/90)

   I have ICDUTILS which I downloaded from Terminator to format my hard drive.
The problem is that I can't set my drive to auto-boot because the HDUTIL.PRG
asks for the master disk.  Is there a way to get it to auto-boot?  Can someone
e-mail me another (newer?)  ICD utility to allow my HD to auto-boot?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (if legal)

Thanks for any help

vovut@prism.cs.orst.edu

Dave_Ninjajr_Flory@cup.portal.com (08/07/90)

To get your ICD disk to autoboot just put ICDBOOT.PRG in a folder named 
AUTO on the root directory of a floppy and put it in drive A.
That's all it means by asking for the master disk.

andyc@hplsla.HP.COM (Andy Cassino) (08/08/90)

vovut@prism.cs.orst.edu writes:

| 
|    I have ICDUTILS which I downloaded from Terminator to format my hard drive.
| The problem is that I can't set my drive to auto-boot because the HDUTIL.PRG
| asks for the master disk.  Is there a way to get it to auto-boot?  Can someone
| e-mail me another (newer?)  ICD utility to allow my HD to auto-boot?
| ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (if legal)
| 
| Thanks for any help
| 
| vovut@prism.cs.orst.edu
| ----------

You know, there's probably a real good reason that HDUTIL.PRG asks for the
master disk! ICDUTILS are NOT in the public-domain, they are NOT shareware, 
they ARE copyrighted software that you are supposed to pay for.

I've said it here many times before, ICD has strict wording in their 
documentation that their software may not be placed on BBS nor may it 
be transferred from person to person, even if both parties are registered
users. The only legal way to get the software is from ICD (by mail, or 
their BBS) or on GEnie. Period. Any other way is illegal. Period. So, no,
there is no legal way anyone can mail you a newer version that works. 

It sounds to me like ICD finally wised up and realized that just saying this
wasn't enough, and now they've added some measures to protect against
pirating. Three cheers for them if that's the case.

Now, what the heck are ICDUTILS doing on Terminator?

ps. Please direct junior-lawyer legal opinions to /dev/null. They won't do
any good if ICD sics a real lawyer on the Terminator folks.

    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
    % Andy Cassino                                       %
    % Hewlett-Packard - Lake Stevens Instrument Division %
    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

hyc@math.lsa.umich.edu (Howard Chu) (08/08/90)

In article <5440127@hplsla.HP.COM> andyc@hplsla.HP.COM (Andy Cassino) writes:
>You know, there's probably a real good reason that HDUTIL.PRG asks for the
>master disk! ICDUTILS are NOT in the public-domain, they are NOT shareware, 
>they ARE copyrighted software that you are supposed to pay for.
>
>I've said it here many times before, ICD has strict wording in their 
>documentation that their software may not be placed on BBS nor may it 
>be transferred from person to person, even if both parties are registered
>users. The only legal way to get the software is from ICD (by mail, or 
>their BBS) or on GEnie. Period. Any other way is illegal. Period. So, no,
>there is no legal way anyone can mail you a newer version that works. 
>
>It sounds to me like ICD finally wised up and realized that just saying this
>wasn't enough, and now they've added some measures to protect against
>pirating. Three cheers for them if that's the case.
>
>Now, what the heck are ICDUTILS doing on Terminator?
>
>ps. Please direct junior-lawyer legal opinions to /dev/null. They won't do
>any good if ICD sics a real lawyer on the Terminator folks.

I understand your concern, and was pretty concerned myself upon reading this
article. I just checked the copy of ICDUTILS we have on terminator. This is
the beginning of the READ.ME file included in the archive:
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


READ.ME     8/12/87


This file documents the ICD ST Hard Drive Utilities.  These utilities are
packaged with all ST Hard Drive Systems and ST Host Adapters sold by ICD.  They
are all Copyright (C) 1987 ICD, Inc., however, you are free to use and
distribute these utilities as long as:

        1) They are not sold or included with any other product unless an
           ICD Host Adapter is part of that product.
        2) They are not modified in any way.
        3) ICD is given credit for authorship of these files.
        4) This documentation is included.

*  Any company wishing to include these utilities with their products
   must first obtain a license from ICD, Inc. or they will be in violation of
   Federal and/or International Copyright Laws.  Licensed will display the
   license registration number.


If you have any questions:

        ICD, Inc.
        1220 Rock Street
        Rockford, IL  61101

        Voice:  815-968-2228
        Modem:  815-968-2229
        FAX:    815-968-6888
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
[remainder omitted  -- hyc]

This is obviously very old software here. It also seems to me to be quite
explicit in stating that it is freely distributable. ICD's policy may have
changed since then, but no one has notified us. No one has posted any
messages on any nets I read to the effect of "please remove your old copies
of our software from your archive" either, so I think this is still OK.

I wouldn't trust it worth a damn, but I don't think there's any problem with
distributing it.
--
  -- Howard Chu @ University of Michigan
  one million data bits stored on a chip, one million bits per chip
	if one of those data bits happens to flip,
		one million data bits stored on the chip...

jimmy@unix.cis.pitt.edu (James G Tauberg) (08/08/90)

In article <5440127@hplsla.HP.COM> andyc@hplsla.HP.COM (Andy Cassino) writes:
>
>You know, there's probably a real good reason that HDUTIL.PRG asks for the
>master disk! ICDUTILS are NOT in the public-domain, they are NOT shareware, 
>they ARE copyrighted software that you are supposed to pay for.
>
>I've said it here many times before, ICD has strict wording in their 
>documentation that their software may not be placed on BBS nor may it 
>be transferred from person to person, even if both parties are registered
>users. The only legal way to get the software is from ICD (by mail, or 
>their BBS) or on GEnie. Period. Any other way is illegal. Period. So, no,
>there is no legal way anyone can mail you a newer version that works. 

	First of all ICD software < IS > copyprotected in the sense that
it will only work if an ICD host adapter is installed in the hard drive.

	Second, as you mentioned, ICD has a user supprot BBS which has
for download ALL standard ICD utilities.

	ICD's board will allow anyone to download this software.  It is
unusable unless you have their host adapter anyway!

	Why are you getting so hot under the collar about this software
that is clearly available to ICD owners?  A lot to say about nothing.


ICD's BBS number is (815) 968-2229


later,
Jim Tauberg

PS.  I personally love my ICD Advantage Plus host adapter... I recommend
     it highly.

andyc@hplsla.HP.COM (Andy Cassino) (08/09/90)

Re: ICDUTILS on Terminator

Given the preamble to the documentation for the programs available on
Terminator (posted by Howard Chu), I agree that the programs are
legally available on Terminator. My apologies to the original poster
and to the Terminator folks; I was not aware that ICD's earlier
policies were more lenient than their present policies.

To address the question posed by Mr. Tauberg:

>	Why are you getting so hot under the collar about this software
> that is clearly available to ICD owners?  A lot to say about nothing.

The current versions of the ICD programs come with documentation that
clearly states how they may be distributed, and ICD has made it clear
on GEnie that they are serious about it. As a case in point, there was
a fellow that asked permission to give a copy of the latest utilities
to a pal who had an ICD host adapter. ICD flatly refused, saying his
friend had to download them from GEnie or ICD's BBS, or else
mail-order and upgrade.

One can certainly question what is admittedly a strange
distribution/upgrade policy, but one can't question ICD's right to set
that policy. And I don't think a BBS or file server could afford to
engage in practices contrary to ICD's policy, in light of some of the
serious piracy incidents that have recently come to light involving
software written for the ST.

So, "hot under the collar" perhaps, but please direct your "alot to
say about nothing" comment elsewhere.

    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
    % Andy Cassino                                       %
    % Hewlett-Packard - Lake Stevens Instrument Division %
    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

ekrimen@wet.UUCP (Ed Krimen) (08/09/90)

-    I have ICDUTILS which I downloaded from Terminator to format my 
- hard drive.  The problem is that I can't set my drive to auto-boot
- because the HDUTIL.PRG asks for the master disk.  Is there a way to
- get it to auto-boot?  Can someone e-mail me another (newer?)  ICD
- utility to allow my HD to auto-boot?  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
- (if legal)
 
Just copy ICDBOOT.PRG to the root of Drive C: and rename it 
ICDBOOT.SYS.

jhenders@van-bc.wimsey.bc.ca (John Henders) (08/10/90)

	Re: Inserting Master Disk.
The reason the program asks for a master disk is that it is looking for the
Icdboot.prg in the auto folder. I'll leave the solution as an exercize to the 
reader.;-) Also,for use on older Atari hard drives theres a progam around call-
ed ICDFIX which fixes the Ghost drive problem.
 I think the reason ICD changed their policy on distribution was that as their
software became so obviosly superior to all the competition,it was being used
on every hard drive. I wish they allowed free distribution though,as they have
it protected anyways and I hate paying to download it from GEnie. Besides, I 
hear it's available on pirate boards with the protection removed anyways.

hyc@math.lsa.umich.edu (Howard Chu) (08/10/90)

In article <1348@van-bc.wimsey.bc.ca> jhenders@van-bc.wimsey.bc.ca (John Henders) writes:
> I think the reason ICD changed their policy on distribution was that as their
>software became so obviosly superior to all the competition,it was being used
>on every hard drive. I wish they allowed free distribution though,as they have
>it protected anyways and I hate paying to download it from GEnie. Besides, I 
>hear it's available on pirate boards with the protection removed anyways.

Well, I guess that's the way this economy works - when a company notices an
increased demand for their product, they're free to take advantage and raise the
cost of the supply accordingly.

Just because a program appears on a pirate board is sufficient reason for a
company to stop charging money for their product? Neat idea...
--
  -- Howard Chu @ University of Michigan
  one million data bits stored on a chip, one million bits per chip
	if one of those data bits happens to flip,
		one million data bits stored on the chip...

jhenders@van-bc.wimsey.bc.ca (John Henders) (08/11/90)

	I reread my included article in your post,and still can't see how
you inferred your conclusion from what I said. I'll try again however.
	My point was not that they should give the software away. I purchased
the ICD host adapter and got the software with it. By ICD's policy I have to
download updates from either their board or one of the pay services. AND I 
cannot( again by their policy ) give a copy to a friend with the host adapter.
As the software only works with the host adapter purchased from ICD, I find
this policy makes little sense and if protection from piracy is the point
it obviously isn't working. Is this clearer. In no way do I support piracy
and I think ICD's distribution policy on their updates is a little extreme.
	It is however far better than any other software I've seen for the HD
and I'm very happy with the Hardware to.( non payed endorsment )

john henders

dcrevier@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (Dan Crevier) (08/12/90)

	I think they want to make sure people get clean copies of the host
adaptor software.  It would be pretty easy to stick some kind of virus in
ICDBOOT.SYS that would be practically undetectable.  Since you can only
download the software from places where they upload it, you can be sure that
you are getting a clean copy.  If you get it from a friend, you can't be
sure.  I think that this policy does make sense, but it is hard on the user
who has to use a pay system to get a new version.

Dan