bwhite@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Bill White ) (08/27/90)
I've seen a lot about the TT and I'm convinced I want one now. I also want one with Unix; gnu is OK but frankly, I really hate gulam and really want multitasking. So my question is, - how much would the TT cost (realistically, i.e., including discounts, etc.) - how much does UNIX cost? (I can do the addition myself). I'm hoping the whole bundle would cost under $3000. And no, I'm not quite ready to shell out this much; I'm just dreaming. One question: how easy would it be to hook up a TCP/IP line to a TT? | Bill White Internet: bwhite@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu | | FINAGLE'S FIFTH RULE: | | Experiments should be reproducible -- they should | | all fail in the same way. |
cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Christopher M Mauritz) (08/27/90)
In article <1829@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU> bwhite@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Bill White ) writes: > > I've seen a lot about the TT and I'm convinced I want one now. >I also want one with Unix; gnu is OK but frankly, I really hate gulam >and really want multitasking. So my question is, > - how much would the TT cost (realistically, i.e., including >discounts, etc.) > - how much does UNIX cost? (I can do the addition myself). >I'm hoping the whole bundle would cost under $3000. And no, I'm not >quite ready to shell out this much; I'm just dreaming. I don't know where you got your info from but... 1> the TT isn't available. You can't get it for any amount of money in these here United States of America (or anywhere else I think). 2> Atari Unix is in the same type of limbo that TOS 1.4 was in say 2-3 years ago. It's one of those things they show for an instant at a trade show here and there, but God only knows if/when Atari will ever get it cleaned up enough to sell it and then get Jack's approval to sell it in the US. > > One question: how easy would it be to hook up a TCP/IP line to >a TT? Shouldn't be much of a chore if they have a workable Ethernet connection for the beast. I've heard some talk of TCP/IP being developed for the ST by some third party. It probably would be a trivial task to port it to a 68030 ST. > > >| Bill White Internet: bwhite@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu | >| FINAGLE'S FIFTH RULE: | >| Experiments should be reproducible -- they should | >| all fail in the same way. | Cheers, Chris ------------------------------+--------------------------- Chris Mauritz |D{r det finns en |l, finns cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu |det en plan! (c)All rights reserved. | Send flames to /dev/null | ------------------------------+---------------------------
davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu (08/27/90)
In article <1990Aug27.133140.14808@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Christopher M Mauritz) writes: > In article <1829@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU> bwhite@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Bill White ) writes: >>[asked questions about the Atari TT] > I don't know where you got your info from but... Of course, the answer could have been shortened to "I don't know. Atari hasn't released the TT in any user-purchasable format at this time." All other (useless to the question) speculation wasn't worth the bandwidth. -- David Paschall-Zimbel davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu
suhonen@tukki.jyu.fi (Timo Suhonen) (08/27/90)
In article <1990Aug27.133140.14808@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Christopher M Mauritz) writes:
Shouldn't be much of a chore if they have a workable Ethernet connection
for the beast. I've heard some talk of TCP/IP being developed for the
ST by some third party. It probably would be a trivial task to port it
to a 68030 ST.
There is Ethernet box for ST (made in Germany). The price in Finland is
about 5000 Fim. ~ $1100. It is connected to ST's DMA port.
Timo
--
Timo Suhonen I am logged in, therefore I am suhonen@jyu.fi
suhonen@funic.funet.fi
Moderator for ftp site funic.funet.fi (128.214.6.100) Atari ST diratoenne@exunido.uucp (Andreas Toenne) (08/27/90)
In article <1990Aug27.133140.14808@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Christopher M Mauritz) writes: >In article <1829@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU> bwhite@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Bill White ) writes: >> I've seen a lot about the TT and I'm convinced I want one now. >>I also want one with Unix; gnu is OK but frankly, I really hate gulam >>and really want multitasking. So my question is, >> - how much would the TT cost (realistically, i.e., including >>discounts, etc.) >> - how much does UNIX cost? (I can do the addition myself). >>I'm hoping the whole bundle would cost under $3000. And no, I'm not >>quite ready to shell out this much; I'm just dreaming. > >I don't know where you got your info from but... > >1> the TT isn't available. You can't get it for any amount of money > in these here United States of America (or anywhere else I think). And I don't know what your source of information is, but drop it :-) The TT can be bought! I know a company which runs Smalltalk80 on it (138% Dorado for the curious). Right now it will be sold to developers and very anoying customers :-) Look for them before christmas. >2> Atari Unix is in the same type of limbo that TOS 1.4 was in say > 2-3 years ago. It's one of those things they show for an instant > at a trade show here and there, but God only knows if/when Atari will > ever get it cleaned up enough to sell it and then get Jack's approval > to sell it in the US. I saw a stable version of System V somewhat... at the Atari show in Duesseldorf last weekend. They will port some newer software before spring and it will cost below 10000DM then. (right now this is about US$6400 in Europe and if the $ continues falling then it will be 8000 in spring, hehe) Ah, talking about the TT.... it sucks! According to specifications it should run at 32Mhz. Actually it houses a 68030xxx33 chip as I found by opening one (which is even more difficult than on the ST. Lots of shieldings and lots of screws. One screw holds the harddisk and when we removed it the disk dropped on the desk, oops :-) However, it is only slightly faster than a Mac II somewhat at 16Mhz which is rather disappointing (even then the TT is a reasonably priced machine comparing it to the price of Macs in Germay). I guess the other hardware was designed for 16Mhz only and cannot keep the pace. (rams are 100ns for instance) Andreas Toenne atoenne@unido.uucp P.S. These are my humble opinions based on 3 days experience and a set of screwdrivers. I am not payed by Atari (they never will) neither by one of their competitors.
Doug_B_Erdely@cup.portal.com (08/28/90)
I found it interesting that David Paschall-Zimbel chastised Chris M.'s wasting of bandwidth by posting a complaint about it. Let me say that his one small message will make no difference on bandwidth. I also see nothing wrong with Chris's message, he was trying to be helpful, even if the TT is not available. - Doug - Doug_B_Erdely@Cup.Portal.Com
D.C.Halliday@newcastle.ac.uk (D.C. Halliday) (08/28/90)
In article <2421@laura.UUCP> atoenne@julien.informatik.uni-dortmund.de (Andreas Toenne) writes: >Ah, talking about the TT.... it sucks! >According to specifications it should run at 32Mhz. Actually it houses >a 68030xxx33 chip as I found by opening one (which is even more difficult >than on the ST. Lots of shieldings and lots of screws. One screw holds >the harddisk and when we removed it the disk dropped on the desk, oops :-) >However, it is only slightly faster than a Mac II somewhat at 16Mhz >which is rather disappointing (even then the TT is a reasonably priced >machine comparing it to the price of Macs in Germay). I guess the other >hardware was designed for 16Mhz only and cannot keep the pace. >(rams are 100ns for instance) At present the system as sold to developers is an 8Meg machine with 33Mzh CPU but clocked at 16Mhz. The final release version will be clocked at 32Mhz. I am not sure if this will involve the whole machine running at 33Mhz or if a cache method similar to HyperCache or Turbo16 on the ST will be used. Either way the performance increase should be significant. Dave Halliday (D.C.Halliday@newcastle.ac.uk)
D.C.Halliday@newcastle.ac.uk (D.C. Halliday) (08/28/90)
In article <SUHONEN.90Aug27174349@tukki.jyu.fi> suhonen@tukki.jyu.fi (Timo Suhonen) writes: >In article <1990Aug27.133140.14808@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Christopher M Mauritz) writes: > > Shouldn't be much of a chore if they have a workable Ethernet connection > for the beast. I've heard some talk of TCP/IP being developed for the > ST by some third party. It probably would be a trivial task to port it > to a 68030 ST. The ST has a PD package that uses tcp/ip the KA9Q package it is on terminator with sources. Porting this to use a VME ethernet or SCSI eternet card connected to the TT should not be to hard. NB: the ST version uses serial ip (SLIP). Dave Halliday (D.C.Halliday@newcastle.ac.uk)
atoenne@exunido.uucp (Andreas Toenne) (08/29/90)
In article <1990Aug28.153308.11588@newcastle.ac.uk> D.C.Halliday@newcastle.ac.uk (D.C. Halliday) writes: >At present the system as sold to developers is an 8Meg machine with >33Mzh CPU but clocked at 16Mhz. The final release version will be >clocked at 32Mhz. I am not sure if this will involve the whole machine >running at 33Mhz or if a cache method similar to HyperCache or Turbo16 >on the ST will be used. Either way the performance increase should be >significant. Are you sure ? really sure ? If this is true, Atari Germany will have tons of problems. They sold those machines as 32Mhz *CLOCK SPEED*. Now all developers are pissed. What is the use of a development machine if it runs only at 1/2 of the speed of the regular ones ? You cannot do performance tests, timing adjustments etc. Andreas Toenne atoenne@unido.uucp /include/std/disclaimer:
tkld@castle.ed.ac.uk (K Davidson) (08/30/90)
In article <2427@laura.UUCP> atoenne@julien.informatik.uni-dortmund.de (Andreas Toenne) writes: >In article <1990Aug28.153308.11588@newcastle.ac.uk> D.C.Halliday@newcastle.ac.uk (D.C. Halliday) writes: >>At present the system as sold to developers is an 8Meg machine with >>33Mzh CPU but clocked at 16Mhz. The final release version will be >>clocked at 32Mhz. I am not sure if this will involve the whole machine >>running at 33Mhz or if a cache method similar to HyperCache or Turbo16 >>on the ST will be used. Either way the performance increase should be >>significant. > >Are you sure ? really sure ? > >If this is true, Atari Germany will have tons of problems. They sold those >machines as 32Mhz *CLOCK SPEED*. Now all developers are pissed. >What is the use of a development machine if it runs only at 1/2 of the >speed of the regular ones ? You cannot do performance tests, timing adjustments >etc. > I read in the Guardian (UK) Computer section today that the "Atari TT030" is on sale *now* in the UK and Germany. UK price (2meg RAM, 40meg HD, colour monitor) L1990 + VAT 32 MHz processor (different, the article says, from developers versions which are apparrently 16 MHz) The article goes on to say that the Unix has been delayed another 6 months due to a new Unix (AT&T SysV.4 instead of V.3), being ported by a UK company (called Root or somesuch) . New window manager (from some French Company - never heard of it before IXI's X.Desktop would be a better move IMHO) ...and... a switch to using the GNU compiler gcc (Hurray !! Rah!) > Andreas Toenne .Kevin. <tkld@castle.ed.ac.uk> || <tkld@lfcs.ed.ac.uk> || <tkld@tardis.cs.ed.ac.uk> ...and he did not think it too many. -- .Kevin. <tkld@castle.ed.ac.uk> || <tkld@lfcs.ed.ac.uk> || <tkld@tardis.cs.ed.ac.uk> ...and he did not think it too many.
tkld@castle.ed.ac.uk (K Davidson) (08/30/90)
> I read in the Guardian (UK) Computer section today that the "Atari TT030" >is on sale *now* in the UK and Germany. > > UK price (2meg RAM, 40meg HD, colour monitor) L1990 + VAT > 32 MHz processor (different, the article says, from developers versions >which are apparrently 16 MHz) > Forgot to say, this is with TOS 3.1 on ROM. Unix next year. -- .Kevin. <tkld@castle.ed.ac.uk> || <tkld@lfcs.ed.ac.uk> || <tkld@tardis.cs.ed.ac.uk> ...and he did not think it too many.
johnr@praxis.co.uk (John Richards) (08/30/90)
>In article <1829@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU> bwhite@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Bill White ) writes: >> >> I've seen a lot about the TT and I'm convinced I want one now. >>I also want one with Unix; gnu is OK but frankly, I really hate gulam >>and really want multitasking. So my question is, >> - how much would the TT cost (realistically, i.e., including >>discounts, etc.) >> - how much does UNIX cost? (I can do the addition myself). >>I'm hoping the whole bundle would cost under $3000. And no, I'm not >>quite ready to shell out this much; I'm just dreaming. Today's copy of the Guardian (a UK newspaper) says the TT was shown at last week's Dusseldorf Atari show. Atari apparently claimed the TT was available NOW in the UK and Germany, but of course no one will believe it until they actually see one. The article repeated a price I've seen before of 1990 UK pounds for a 2MB TT with 40MB disc and colour monitor, but said it definitely had a 32MHz 68030, the 16MHz version had only been sold to developers. We await a definitive sighting. News on UNIX timescales is not good. Atari have decided to scrap System V.3 and go for V.4. Unisoft are doing the port and it's scheduled for next year. They've also decided to go for shipping GNU C. The X desktop will be Motif-based and will be provided by a French company. (How much of this do you believe?) Also "announced" were a low-cost laser printer and thick and thin Ethernet connections and networking for Mega STs (called Atarinet). P.S. the new quarterly ST World has finally appeared in the UK. IMHO it's good and well worth 3 quid (but where's the free disc :-) -- John Richards
D.C.Halliday@newcastle.ac.uk (D.C. Halliday) (08/30/90)
In article <2427@laura.UUCP> atoenne@julien.informatik.uni-dortmund.de (Andreas Toenne) writes: >In article <1990Aug28.153308.11588@newcastle.ac.uk> D.C.Halliday@newcastle.ac.uk (D.C. Halliday) writes: >>At present the system as sold to developers is an 8Meg machine with >>33Mzh CPU but clocked at 16Mhz. The final release version will be >>clocked at 32Mhz. I am not sure if this will involve the whole machine >>running at 33Mhz or if a cache method similar to HyperCache or Turbo16 >>on the ST will be used. Either way the performance increase should be >>significant. > > >Are you sure ? really sure ? Well probably. > >If this is true, Atari Germany will have tons of problems. They sold those >machines as 32Mhz *CLOCK SPEED*. Now all developers are pissed. >What is the use of a development machine if it runs only at 1/2 of the >speed of the regular ones ? You cannot do performance tests, timing adjustments >etc. If the machine going to developers, is the final machine why the delay in shipping? Perhaps german developers have got the 32Mhz machine but if what you say is correct then the HW mod is juct like the JOTO accelerater for the ST and does not offer that much exta performance. I hope not :-( Dave Halliday. (D.C.Halliday@newcastle.ac.uk)
stephen@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Steve Whitney) (08/31/90)
In article <1990Aug30.145610.14234@newcastle.ac.uk> D.C.Halliday@newcastle.ac.uk (D.C. Halliday) writes: [other references deleted] >If the machine going to developers, is the final machine why the delay >in shipping? Perhaps german developers have got the 32Mhz machine but >if what you say is correct then the HW mod is juct like the JOTO >accelerater for the ST and does not offer that much exta performance. >I hope not :-( > >Dave Halliday. >(D.C.Halliday@newcastle.ac.uk) Remember that the 68030 has internal instruction and data caches (256 bytes each?) so it can do quite a bit without even looking at the memory. I don't know what the system speed wil be, but speeding up the 68030 would still do quite a bit for performance. The TT also supports burst mode transfers for filling that cache in the "TT-RAM" which isn't shared by the video and sound subsystems so it'll be able to perform fairly well. As I understand it (if I'm wrong, send me _MAIL_ and I'll correct myself), the Amiga A3000 25MHz version still runs with a 16MHz memory system as well. Have fun! --Steve -- Steve Whitney "It's never _really_ the last minute" (())_-_(()) UCLA Comp. Sci. Grad. Student | (* *) | Internet: stephen@cs.ucla.edu UCLA Bruin--> { \_@_/ } GEnie: S.WHITNEY `-----'
stephen@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Steve Whitney) (09/04/90)
In article <38514@shemp.CS.UCLA.EDU> stephen@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Steve Whitney) writes: [actually accurate information deleted] >As I understand it (if I'm wrong, send me _MAIL_ and I'll correct myself), >the Amiga A3000 25MHz version still runs with a 16MHz memory system as well. > >Have fun! > > --Steve As promised, I am correcting myself. Several people sent me mail to the effect that the A3000 25MHz version does indeed have as faster memory system than the 16MHz version, and that is the reason that they cannot be upgraded. I'll do some research on my own as to how it works exactly and post later, but I do wish to retract my erroneous statement now. Howzat? -- Steve Whitney "It's never _really_ the last minute" (())_-_(()) UCLA Comp. Sci. Grad. Student | (* *) | Internet: stephen@cs.ucla.edu UCLA Bruin--> { \_@_/ } GEnie: S.WHITNEY `-----'