felner@b.inf.ethz.ch (Tomas Felner) (09/08/90)
Today I finally had a chance to see the 32MHz TT live on a big trade show
here in Switzerland.
What impressed me most and what seems not to be known so far to the general
public, is the new TT desktop. Do you like shells like NeoDesk and Gemini?
Well, now you can have most of their functionality on your TT, in the
official Atari TT TOS. Here are some first impressions from the new desktop
after playing around with the TT for about an hour:
- quite a few new menu entries have been added in the desktop
- most (or all?) menu entries can be invoked with a single keystroke and
those keys are user configurable
- you can assign a full pathname to the function keys and thus invoke your
favourite programs with a single function key keystroke
- you can now have an unsorted index (nice for auto folders)
- you can choose the background color from a menu entry
- there's a menu entry 'Desktop Configuration' where you can set and
configure quite a few things, which I don't all remember
- you can select a number of logical drives and then search for a
file/folder on all those drives. When the search was successfull, a
window with the file/folder opens. And this search is very fast!
- you can read another .INF file and thus change the look of the desktop
- you can switch between several different color tables
- you can have a different border, text and background color for each part
of a window (like close button, expand button, title bar, vertical scrollbar,
left arrow, up arrow, etc ...)
- you can drag any files on the desktop, leave them there, assign different
icons to them, and give them different names (i.e. move the 1stWord icon to
the upper left corner, change the icon to something cute looking, and name
it "Wordprocessor")
- those icons apparently can be edited somehow and you can add you own ones
(I didn't see this but someone told me)
- there's a completely new control accessory with many new options
- there's a new and fast GDOS
- and probably there's a lot more I didn't find out about ...
I really liked all those new features. I am only surprised that no one ever
mentioned this so far. How come? The version I played with was in German.
Maybe it's a product of Atari Germany and not yet available in English, but
I have no idea? Anyway, congratulations to those Atari hackers (Ken, Alan ?)
who came up with this!!!
But now for the big question: Are those poor users who cannot afford to get a
TT also going to see this new desktop on their 520, 1040 and Megas? If the
answer is yes, when is this going to be the case?
And here comes an answer to the question 'How much will I pay for a TT?'.
The following are the official prices from Atari Switzerland. The TT is
supposed to start selling these days here in Switzerland (and also in
Germany I think). (US$ 1.- = SFr. 1.30)
Basic set: TT, 68030, 32MHz, 40MB disk, 720KB floppy, mouse, keyboard
Basic set with 4MB: SFr. 4990.- (US$ 3850.-)
6MB: SFr. 5690.- (US$ 4380.-)
8MB: SFr. 6290.- (US$ 4850.-)
Extra: PTC1426 Multysync color screen, 14" SFr 990.- (US$ 760.-)
PTM146 Monochrome screen, 14" SFr 330.- (US$ 250.-)
TTM194 Monochrom screen, 19", 1280x960 SFr 1890.- (US$ 1450.-)
So a 4MB, multisync system is approx US$ 4600.-
a 8MB, multisync system is approx US$ 5600.-
Now I am curious about the reactions to all this information ... :-)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tomas Felner, felner@inf.ethz.ch
Disclaimer: I am not affiliated to Atari at all. I am just a user who
reports to the net what he has seen on a big trade show in Switzerland.Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com (09/09/90)
Tomas Felner concludes his report on a sighting of the TT with: >Disclaimer: I am not affiliated to Atari at all. I am just a user who >reports to the net what he has seen on a big trade show in Switzerland. Thank you, Tomas..! Since Atari won't tell us anything at all about the TT, it's good to hear a report from a "real person"... It sounds as if the new desktop will be very nice... I too am surprised we've never heard about those features before. Maybe when a "real person" actually gets hold of a TT, we'll know more... BobR
apratt@atari.UUCP (Allan Pratt) (09/11/90)
Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes: >It sounds as if the new desktop will be very nice... I too am surprised >we've never heard about those features before. You haven't heard about the new desktop, because if you'd heard about it you'd have wanted it yesterday. We decided that, for a change, Atari would arrange for something good to be DONE and SHIPPING before you (collectively) heard about it. This is the opposite of vaporware. Like it? ============================================ Opinions expressed above do not necessarily -- Allan Pratt, Atari Corp. reflect those of Atari Corp. or anyone else. ...ames!atari!apratt
mui@atari.UUCP (Derek Mui) (09/11/90)
in article <6648@neptune.inf.ethz.ch>, felner@b.inf.ethz.ch (Tomas Felner) says: > > Today I finally had a chance to see the 32MHz TT live on a big trade show > here in Switzerland. > > What impressed me most and what seems not to be known so far to the general > public, is the new TT desktop. > > But now for the big question: Are those poor users who cannot afford to get a > TT also going to see this new desktop on their 520, 1040 and Megas? If the > answer is yes, when is this going to be the case? > We would love to put the new desktop in the above machines. Unfortunately, we don't have enough ROM space to fit everything together. Just for your information, the new desktop is 22k bigger than the old one. Anyway, we may need a little bit more time or even a miracle in order to squeeze every extra bits into the 192K ROM. We will try! ================================================================== Derek Mui, Atari Corp, 1196 Borregas Ave, Sunnyvale, CA 94086 UUCP: {..ames!atari!mui} FAX: 408-745-4306 Disclaimer: Opinions expressed here are my own and they may be hazardous to your mind. ==================================================================
felner@b.inf.ethz.ch (Tomas Felner) (09/11/90)
In article <2283@atari.UUCP> mui@atari.UUCP (Derek Mui) writes: > We would love to put the new desktop in the above machines. >Unfortunately, we don't have enough ROM space to fit everything together. >Just for your information, the new desktop is 22k bigger than the old one. >Anyway, we may need a little bit more time or even a miracle in order to >squeeze every extra bits into the 192K ROM. We will try! Well, after all there's a ROM port with an extra 128K of ROM address space. How about a solution that involves this space? Then you would also have enough space to add GDOS to the TOS ... Tomas Felner, felner@inf.ethz.ch
entropy@rice-chex.ai.mit.edu (enthalpy) (09/11/90)
In article <2281@atari.UUCP> apratt@atari.UUCP (Allan Pratt) writes: Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes: >It sounds as if the new desktop will be very nice... I too am surprised >we've never heard about those features before. You haven't heard about the new desktop, because if you'd heard about it you'd have wanted it yesterday. We decided that, for a change, Atari would arrange for something good to be DONE and SHIPPING before you (collectively) heard about it. This is the opposite of vaporware. Like it? Like it? I LOVE it! Keep up this policy of not releasing full product info before the product is released. It will definitely help get rid of Atari's reputation for vaporware. Internet: ncastellano@eagle.wesleyan.edu || entropy@ai.mit.edu Bitnet: ncastellano@wesleyan.bitnet Citadel: Sinkhole!dEADHEAd [@mast.citadel.moundst.mn.org] Sniktnet: snikt!entropy
dougie@cernvax.UUCP (douglas mclaggan) (09/11/90)
In article <2283@atari.UUCP> mui@atari.UUCP (Derek Mui) writes: >in article <6648@neptune.inf.ethz.ch>, felner@b.inf.ethz.ch (Tomas Felner) says: >> But now for the big question: Are those poor users who cannot afford to get a >> TT also going to see this new desktop on their 520, 1040 and Megas? If the >> answer is yes, when is this going to be the case? >> > We would love to put the new desktop in the above machines. >Unfortunately, we don't have enough ROM space to fit everything together. >Just for your information, the new desktop is 22k bigger than the old one. >Anyway, we may need a little bit more time or even a miracle in order to >squeeze every extra bits into the 192K ROM. We will try! ^^^^^^^^^^^^ What about the STE, Derek? There was no mention of that. I was just wondering if you'll be trying to put the new desktop in there? It's got a 256K ROM with about 30K spare, as far as I know. That sounds about enough space, doesn't it!!! I suppose that with this new policy of Atari's, if you're busy coding up the new STE desktop, you won't be able to let us know 'til it's finish and shipping. Right? :-) Keeping my fingers crossed... Dougie. -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Dougie McLaggan. ->->-> 'dougie@cernvax.cern.ch', or 'dougie@cs.hw.ac.uk' | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
mjv@brownvm.brown.edu (Marshall Vale) (09/11/90)
In article <2281@atari.UUCP> apratt@atari.UUCP (Allan Pratt) writes: > We decided that, for a change, > Atari would arrange for something good to be DONE and SHIPPING before > you (collectively) heard about it. This is the opposite of vaporware. > Like it? -- Allan Pratt, Atari Corp. Yup, I like it very much. But I wonder from your message does that mean the TT is ready? (Note: question not really directed to you Alan just more towards the air :-) Thankfully, the one thing my Atari has taught me is patience. BTW, the desktop really sounds great! The TT seems to be shaping up very well! Marshall --mjv@brownvm.brown.edu
felner@inf.ethz.ch (Tomas Felner) (09/11/90)
In article <7359@neptune.inf.ethz.ch> felner@b.inf.ethz.ch (Tomas Felner) writes: >In article <2283@atari.UUCP> mui@atari.UUCP (Derek Mui) writes: >> We would love to put the new desktop in the above machines. >>Unfortunately, we don't have enough ROM space to fit everything together. >>Just for your information, the new desktop is 22k bigger than the old one. >>Anyway, we may need a little bit more time or even a miracle in order to >>squeeze every extra bits into the 192K ROM. We will try! > >Well, after all there's a ROM port with an extra 128K of ROM address space. >How about a solution that involves this space? Then you would also have enough >space to add GDOS to the TOS ... Someone just convinced me that it might not be such a good solution to put it in the ROM port space because of copy protection problems and more. So how about an official RAM version of the desktop that loads from the auto folder and replaces the TOS 1.4 desktop? How big is this desktop anyway? If people are willing to use up RAM for NeoDesk, Gemini and alike, why not for an official Atari replacement (which I believe is smaller that those other ones)? Tomas Felner, felner@inf.ethz.ch
felner@inf.ethz.ch (Tomas Felner) (09/11/90)
In article <7359@neptune.inf.ethz.ch> felner@b.inf.ethz.ch (Tomas Felner) writes: >In article <2283@atari.UUCP> mui@atari.UUCP (Derek Mui) writes: >> We would love to put the new desktop in the above machines. >>Unfortunately, we don't have enough ROM space to fit everything together. >>Just for your information, the new desktop is 22k bigger than the old one. >>Aniway, we may need a little bit more time or even a miracle in order to >>squeeze every extra bits into the 192K ROM. We will try! > >Well, after all there's a ROM port with an extra 128K of RM address space. >How about a solution that involves this space? Then you would also have enough >space to add GDOS to the TOC ... Someone just convinced me that it might not be such a good solution to put it in the ROM port space because of copy protection problems and more. So how about an official RAM version of the desktop that loads from the auto folder and replaces the TOC 1.4 desktop? How big is this desktop anyway? If people are willing to use up RAM for NeoDesk, Gemini and alike, why not for an official Atari replacement (which I believe is smaller that those other ones)? Tomas Felner, felner@inf.ethz.ch
mui@atari.UUCP (Derek Mui) (09/12/90)
in article <2685@cernvax.UUCP>, dougie@cernvax.UUCP (douglas mclaggan) says: > > What about the STE, Derek? There was no mention of that. I was just > wondering if you'll be trying to put the new desktop in there? > It's got a 256K ROM with about 30K spare, as far as I know. > That sounds about enough space, doesn't it!!! > > I suppose that with this new policy of Atari's, if you're busy coding up > the new STE desktop, you won't be able to let us know 'til it's finish and > shipping. Right? :-) > Thank you for all the people who suggested different ideas of how to squeeze the new desktop into the ST ROM. Someone suggested to use the cartridge port and most of the others suggested to put it on the disk. Technically, they are all O.K, and I will reflect all the opinions to management people. As of today, I believe the STE will have the new desktop. ^^^^^^^^^^^ ================================================================== Derek Mui, Atari Corp, 1196 Borregas Ave, Sunnyvale, CA 94086 UUCP: {..ames!atari!mui} Disclaimer: Opinions expressed here are my own and they may be hazardous to your mind. ==================================================================
apratt@atari.UUCP (Allan Pratt) (09/12/90)
mjv@brownvm.brown.edu (Marshall Vale) writes: >In article <2281@atari.UUCP> apratt@atari.UUCP (Allan Pratt) writes: >> We decided that, for a change, >> Atari would arrange for something good to be DONE and SHIPPING before >> you (collectively) heard about it. This is the opposite of vaporware. >> Like it? > -- Allan Pratt, Atari Corp. > Yup, I like it very much. But I wonder from your message does that mean >the TT is ready? (Note: question not really directed to you Alan just >more towards the air :-) The TT is available. It is on dealers' shelves in Germany. We had an extra push to get the German market supplied in time for the Atari fair in Dusseldorf. (It was a big success!) Now that that's over we are building TT's for the rest of the world, too. I can't speak to delivery dates; ask our PR flaks. ============================================ Opinions expressed above do not necessarily -- Allan Pratt, Atari Corp. reflect those of Atari Corp. or anyone else. ...ames!atari!apratt
yegerleh@handel.ecn.purdue.edu (James D Yegerlehner) (09/12/90)
In article <2288@atari.UUCP>, apratt@atari.UUCP (Allan Pratt) writes: > > The TT is available. It is on dealers' shelves in Germany. We had an > extra push to get the German market supplied in time for the Atari So my question is, will Byte review it and put it on the front cover, as they did with the Amiga 68030 whatever-it-is? Maybe you guys at Atari should send them one. Jim
ekrimen@csuchico.edu (Ed Krimen) (09/12/90)
mui@atari.UUCP (Derek Mui) writes:
- We would love to put the new desktop in the above machines.
- Unfortunately, we don't have enough ROM space to fit everything
- together. Just for your information, the new desktop is 22k bigger
- than the old one. Anyway, we may need a little bit more time or
- even a miracle in order to squeeze every extra bits into the 192K
- ROM. We will try!
We really appreciate the effort.
However, from what I hear, there are guys in Europe who have done
this already, putting more stuff in the 192K ROMs even with the
desktop. Is there any chance you could do some consulting and get
their techniques? Thought not. :^( Wouldn't it be SO much better
though?klute@heike.informatik.uni-dortmund.de (Rainer Klute) (09/12/90)
In article <2283@atari.UUCP>, mui@atari.UUCP (Derek Mui) writes: |> We would love to put the new desktop in the above machines. |> Unfortunately, we don't have enough ROM space to fit everything together. |> Just for your information, the new desktop is 22k bigger than the old one. |> Anyway, we may need a little bit more time or even a miracle in order to |> squeeze every extra bits into the 192K ROM. We will try! Split the whole thing into a mandatory part located in ROM and an optional part to be loaded into RAM on startup. -- Dipl.-Inform. Rainer Klute klute@unido.informatik.uni-dortmund.de Univ. Dortmund, IRB klute@unido.uucp, klute@unido.bitnet Postfach 500500 |)|/ Tel.: +49 231 755-4663 D-4600 Dortmund 50 |\|\ Fax : +49 231 755-2386
bradm@pro-grouch.cts.com (Brad Martin) (09/12/90)
In-Reply-To: message from apratt@atari.UUCP My god... I think I am going to faint. Atari not announcing something (new desktop) at least a year before bringing it out. Congratulations, I am very proud of you. :-) .>Brad Martin<. Cute tag lines on request.
ralph@laas.fr (Ralph P. Sobek) (09/12/90)
In article <2283@atari.UUCP> mui@atari.UUCP (Derek Mui) writes: | We would love to put the new desktop in the above machines. | Unfortunately, we don't have enough ROM space to fit everything together. | Just for your information, the new desktop is 22k bigger than the old one. Just a naive question, no flames please! Wouldn't the *new* desktop fit into those Mega STs that use the 2 ROM chip set? Isn't there some space in those ROM chips? Or couldn't larger ROM chips work? Thanks to all! -- Ralph P. Sobek Disclaimer: The above ruminations are my own. ralph@laas.fr Addresses are ordered by importance. ralph@laas.uucp, or ...!uunet!laas!ralph If all else fails, try: sobek@eclair.Berkeley.EDU =============================================================================== Reliable software should kill people reliably! -Andy Mickel, Pascal News #13,78
grahamt@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Graham Thomas) (09/12/90)
From article <2287@atari.UUCP>, by mui@atari.UUCP (Derek Mui): > in article <2286@atari.UUCP>, mui@atari.UUCP (Derek Mui) says: >> >> As of today, I believe the STE will have the new desktop. >> ^^^^^^^^^^^ >> > Oops! the MEGA STE will have the new desktop, not just any > STE. Sorry. > Interesting! If Atari now doesn't announce products until they're ready for shipping, and Derek has just let slip something about a Mega STE, then the Mega STE must be ready for shipping, right? I WANT IT YESTERDAY! :-) (Sorry Allan - couldn't resist that.) In fact, I probably don't want it, as it probably costs lots more than my plain ol' STE. I can probably even do without the new desktop if NeoDesk 3 is as good as it sounds. But maybe other people would like the option of fitting the new ROMs into their existing STEs. I might even like to do this myself, as I have the oldest (July 89) version of TOS 1.6. In fact, thinking about it.. I WANT TT ROMS RETROFITTED TO MY STE YESTERDAY!! Oh dear, you've opened a can of worms there, Derek. We're never satisfied, are we? (Sometimes with good reason, though.) Now, about this sixty-four/sixty-four machine someone mentioned... :-) Cheers, Graham -- Graham Thomas, SPRU, Mantell Building, U of Sussex, Brighton, BN1 9RF, UK JANET: grahamt@uk.ac.sussex.syma BITNET: grahamt%syma.sussex.ac.uk@UKACRL INTERNET: grahamt%syma.sussex.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk UUCP: grahamt%syma.sussex@ukc.uucp PHONE: +44 273 686758 FAX: [..] 685865
hood@cbmvax.commodore.com (Scott Hood) (09/12/90)
In article <2288@atari.UUCP> apratt@atari.UUCP (Allan Pratt) writes: >mjv@brownvm.brown.edu (Marshall Vale) writes: > >>In article <2281@atari.UUCP> apratt@atari.UUCP (Allan Pratt) writes: >>> We decided that, for a change, >>> Atari would arrange for something good to be DONE and SHIPPING before >>> you (collectively) heard about it. This is the opposite of vaporware. >>> Like it? >> -- Allan Pratt, Atari Corp. > >> Yup, I like it very much. But I wonder from your message does that mean >>the TT is ready? (Note: question not really directed to you Alan just >>more towards the air :-) > >The TT is available. It is on dealers' shelves in Germany. We had an >extra push to get the German market supplied in time for the Atari >fair in Dusseldorf. (It was a big success!) Now that that's over we >are building TT's for the rest of the world, too. I can't speak to >delivery dates; ask our PR flaks. > >============================================ >Opinions expressed above do not necessarily -- Allan Pratt, Atari Corp. >reflect those of Atari Corp. or anyone else. ...ames!atari!apratt Allan, Could you please go over the hardware specs of the new TT for all of us uninformed? Is the TT's cpu a 68030-33 running at 32Mhz? What speed is the memory system running at (16Mhz or 32Mhz)? What about the video improvements of the TT - could you tell us about the resolutions and palette? What is the different configurations and prices for the US of the TT? Thanks for any information you can come up with! Scott Hood -- -- Scott Hood, Hardware Design Engineer (A3000 Crew), Commodore-Amiga, Inc. {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!hood hood@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com "The views expressed here are not necessarily those of my employer!"
rrd@hpfinote.HP.COM (Ray Depew x2419) (09/12/90)
> ... We decided that, for a change, >Atari would arrange for something good to be DONE and SHIPPING before >you (collectively) heard about it. This is the opposite of vaporware. >Like it? LOVE IT! How refreshing! I may even stop looking at A3000's and keep my ST around for a while if this keeps up. Does this represent a new attitude at Atari Corp., or just in your corner of the lab? We applaud "your corner of the lab" in any case. >Opinions expressed above do not necessarily >reflect those of Atari Corp. or anyone else. Uh-oh.... an ominous disclaimer on the end of a refreshing note... Regards Ray Depew HP Colorado IC Division rrd@hpfitst1.hp.com ----------
mrose@ic.sunysb.edu (Michael Rose) (09/13/90)
In article <RALPH.90Sep12112943@sirius.laas.fr> ralph@laas.fr writes: >In article <2283@atari.UUCP> mui@atari.UUCP (Derek Mui) writes: >| We would love to put the new desktop in the above machines. >| Unfortunately, we don't have enough ROM space to fit everything together. >| Just for your information, the new desktop is 22k bigger than the old one. > >Just a naive question, no flames please! Wouldn't the *new* desktop >fit into those Mega STs that use the 2 ROM chip set? Isn't there some >space in those ROM chips? Or couldn't larger ROM chips work? Isn't the Mega supposed to be able to access a Megabyte of ROM through the system expansion bus? Wouldn't it be possible to fit the new ROMs on an expansion board that plugs into the megabus? And how about throwing in a 68030 and a 68882 and a new graphics chips and... just hoping! :-) Take care!!! -Michael Rose no .sig file yet!!!
felner@inf.ethz.ch (Tomas Felner) (09/13/90)
In article <2283@atari.UUCP> mui@atari.UUCP (Derek Mui) writes: > We would love to put the new desktop in the above machines. >Unfortunately, we don't have enough ROM space to fit everything together. Derek, do you think you could elaborate a little bit on the new desktop, telling us about interesting new features that I have not mentioned in my 'trade show report' and give us more detailed info than I did? I believe that many ST netters would be interested. Thank you! Tomas Felner, felner@inf.ethz.ch
mui@atari.UUCP (Derek Mui) (09/14/90)
in article <7739@neptune.inf.ethz.ch>, felner@inf.ethz.ch (Tomas Felner) says: > > In article <2283@atari.UUCP> mui@atari.UUCP (Derek Mui) writes: >> We would love to put the new desktop in the above machines. >>Unfortunately, we don't have enough ROM space to fit everything together. > > Derek, do you think you could elaborate a little bit on the new desktop, > telling us about interesting new features that I have not mentioned in my > 'trade show report' and give us more detailed info than I did? I believe > that many ST netters would be interested. Thank you! > > Tomas Felner, felner@inf.ethz.ch Tomas Felner writes about the features of the TT desktop: - quite a few new menu entries have been added in the desktop - most (or all?) menu entries can be invoked with a single keystroke and those keys are user configurable - you can assign a full pathname to the function keys and thus invoke your favourite programs with a single function key keystroke - you can now have an unsorted index (nice for auto folders) - you can choose the background color from a menu entry - there's a menu entry 'Desktop Configuration' where you can set and configure quite a few things, which I don't all remember - you can select a number of logical drives and then search for a file/folder on all those drives. When the search was successfull, a window with the file/folder opens. And this search is very fast! - you can read another .INF file and thus change the look of the desktop - you can switch between several different color tables - you can have a different border, text and background color for each part of a window (like close button, expand button, title bar, vertical scrollbar, left arrow, up arrow, etc ...) - you can drag any files on the desktop, leave them there, assign different icons to them, and give them different names (i.e. move the 1stWord icon to the upper left corner, change the icon to something cute looking, and name it "Wordprocessor") - those icons apparently can be edited somehow and you can add you own ones (I didn't see this but someone told me) - there's a completely new control accessory with many new options - there's a new and fast GDOS Here are additional features that Tomas Felner missed: - FILE MASK to select the type of file ( *.prg, *.tos atat*.* etc ) that you want to see in the windows. - SELECT ALL function to select everything inside a window. - Items will stay selected inside a window until the operation is finished. For example, drag a bunch of files to copy to a floppy disk and that floopy disk runs out of room in the middle of the operation. All the copied items will be deselected and unfinished items will stay selected ( Great for doing backup ). Scrolling the window contents up and down will not deselect items either. You can use cursor keys to scroll the window contents! - INSTALL DEVICE to install new partitions icon automatically. - Desktop will look for deskicon.rsc during the boot up time to load in users designed iocns. - Choice of passing in file parameter as full path or just file name only and choice of setting the default directory according to the appliction or top desktop window when launching an application. - Support GEM take parameter ( GTP ) type. - DELETE ITEM to activate delete file operation. This is useful when you open full screen window that covers the trash can icon. - ALTERNATE + ? to open a device where ? is the drive that you are interested. ( This is the most popular fearture ). - CONTROL + ? to replace the top window contents with the new ? drive. - All the desktop icon's path ( the ones that reside on the desktop ) will be updated if that item is being deleted, renamed or moved. - Option to or not to preserve file date or not when doing file copy operation. - DESKTOP CONFIGURATION also shows current total free memory size of the system. - Key stroke to change resolution. - Print out current window's contents in text form. - Maximum seven possible desktop windows. - User selectable window and desktop backgorund colors and patterns. - SIZE TO FIT all the items horizontally inside a window. - Most of the operations in the desktop are loop alike. For example, if you select four items inside the window and then select the SHOW INFORMATION menu. The show info dialogue will display the info of all the selected files one after one. Drag text files to printer icon will also print out all the files one after one. - HELP menu. ..... For the rest of them, please read the official owner manual. Basically, all the features that we have provided are based on what an ordinary user will need the most and from all the COMPLAINTS and CRITICISMS ( please, no more ) that we have received in the past several years. The TT desktop is nothing fancy, all we wanted to do is to make the desktop to be truly useful and hopefully people will enjoy using it. As usual, the above features are subject to change without notice :-) :-) ================================================================== Derek Mui, Atari Corp, 1196 Borregas Ave, Sunnyvale, CA 94086 UUCP: {..ames!atari!mui} Disclaimer: Opinions expressed here are my own and they may be hazardous to your mind. ==================================================================
jhenders@van-bc.wimsey.bc.ca (John Henders) (09/14/90)
Thanks for the extra info,Derek. One other question. Has the limit on the number of open windows been raised at all in the TT? John Henders(ubc-cs!van-bc!jhenders) Vancouver,BC
towns@atari.UUCP (John Townsend) (09/14/90)
in article <7359@neptune.inf.ethz.ch>, felner@b.inf.ethz.ch (Tomas Felner) says: > > In article <2283@atari.UUCP> mui@atari.UUCP (Derek Mui) writes: >> We would love to put the new desktop in the above machines. >>Unfortunately, we don't have enough ROM space to fit everything together. >>Just for your information, the new desktop is 22k bigger than the old one. >>Anyway, we may need a little bit more time or even a miracle in order to >>squeeze every extra bits into the 192K ROM. We will try! > > Well, after all there's a ROM port with an extra 128K of ROM address space. > How about a solution that involves this space? Then you would also have enough > space to add GDOS to the TOS ... > > Tomas Felner, felner@inf.ethz.ch There are important applications that use the Cartridge Port. We can just take that Port and use it. Also, I think there might be some technical problems with this solution as well.. Alan or Derek would probably know more about what the ins and outs are of this solution and why we can't use it.. -- John Townsend Atari Corp.
saj@chinet.chi.il.us (Stephen Jacobs) (09/14/90)
In article <2295@atari.UUCP> mui@atari.UUCP (Derek Mui) writes: >- there's a new and fast GDOS > >Here are additional features that Tomas Felner missed: > >- Support GEM take parameter ( GTP ) type. My understanding is that existing compilers don't support passing parameters to GEM applications. Am I mistaken? Is this going to be supported somehow? Steve J.
felner@inf.ethz.ch (Tomas Felner) (09/15/90)
In article <2295@atari.UUCP> mui@atari.UUCP (Derek Mui) writes: > > [Derek extends my list of new TT desktop features] > > Basically, all the features that we have provided are based on >what an ordinary user will need the most and from all the COMPLAINTS and >CRITICISMS ( please, no more ) that we have received in the past several >years. The TT desktop is nothing fancy, all we wanted to do is to make the >desktop to be truly useful and hopefully people will enjoy using it. I often heard complaints about Atari not reacting to all the improvements suggested by developpers, especially German developpers. As it looks now, it seems that this wasn't the case at all, at least for the visible desktop improvements. Who knows what they fixed and improved in the GEMDOS, AES and VDI internals (Derek?). Also, Atari seems to have abandoned its poliy of announcing vapourware. Now that we know that Atari listens to user complaints and suggestions, we should not complain that they don't seem to do anything. By complaining, we would push them to make early announcements in order to keep us happy. This, however, would result in vapourware. And, as we all know, vapourware is no fun at all. Atari (Allan, Derek, Ken, John and all the others), keep up this policy!!! Coming up with a new or improved product in a big bang is always better for the image than talking about vapourware for months and years. Others did so (Apple, NeXT, Commodore, Sun, IBM and more) and they were always successfull with it. Why shouldn't you ... Tomas Felner, felner@inf.ethz.ch
mui@atari.UUCP (Derek Mui) (09/15/90)
in article <1914@van-bc.wimsey.bc.ca>, jhenders@van-bc.wimsey.bc.ca (John Henders) says: > > Summary:TT window limit? > > > Thanks for the extra info,Derek. One other question. Has the limit on > the number of open windows been raised at all in the TT? > John Henders(ubc-cs!van-bc!jhenders) > Vancouver,BC No, the maximum number of window is still eight. We can change the AES to handle X number of window easily. But if we change it to handle X number of window, then people will ask for X+1 number of window. It will go on forever! Since the AES is a single-task environment, eight windows are generally quite enough for most of the applications. Moreover, changing the AES to have unlimited ( dynamic ) number of window is not an easy job :-( However, if the AES is changed to handle multi-tasking, then we should definitely have the dynamic window feature. Agree? Once again, things may change. I am not the boss. ================================================================== Derek Mui, Atari Corp, 1196 Borregas Ave, Sunnyvale, CA 94086 UUCP: {..ames!atari!mui} Disclaimer: Opinions expressed here are my own and they may be hazardous to your mind. ==================================================================
steve@thelake.mn.org (Steve Yelvington) (09/16/90)
[In article <1990Sep14.140529.1831@chinet.chi.il.us>,
saj@chinet.chi.il.us (Stephen Jacobs) writes ... ]
> In article <2295@atari.UUCP> mui@atari.UUCP (Derek Mui) writes:
>>- there's a new and fast GDOS
>>
>>Here are additional features that Tomas Felner missed:
>>
>>- Support GEM takee parameter ( GTP ) type.
>
> My understanding is that existing compilers don't support passing parameters
> to GEM applications. Am I mistaken? Is this going to be supported somehow?
>
> Steve J.
Some may not support parameters. Others do. Sozobon (dLibs with GEMFAST
or GEMQ) allows parameters -- there is no separate GEM startup module.
There are existing GEM application that take args; I think First Word
is one of them.
I would like to see a Desktop that allowed me to drag a data file to a
program icon. That would let me install my own print output formatter
or communications program on the Desktop as if it were a device. I believe
the IXI desktop for Unix works that way -- perhaps others do, too.
As an aside -- I'd like to thank Derek for posting the info on the TT
Desktop. With the TT finally hitting the dealers, and the recent drops
in chip costs, things are really brightening up. I stopped by the local
Atari dealer the other day and was pleased to see 4-megabyte STs selling
for $895 or so (sans monitor). Add Pagestream (running off a RAMdisk)
and a Deskjet and you have a very nice little desktop publisher.
--
Steve Yelvington up at the lake in Minnesota
(moving soon to Marine on St. Croix)
steve@thelake.mn.org plains!umn-cs!thelake!stevemui@atari.UUCP (Derek Mui) (09/18/90)
in article <A1829639471@thelake.mn.org>, steve@thelake.mn.org (Steve Yelvington) says: > Some may not support parameters. Others do. Sozobon (dLibs with GEMFAST > or GEMQ) allows parameters -- there is no separate GEM startup module. > There are existing GEM application that take args; I think First Word > is one of them. > > I would like to see a Desktop that allowed me to drag a data file to a > program icon. That would let me install my own print output formatter > or communications program on the Desktop as if it were a device. I believe > the IXI desktop for Unix works that way -- perhaps others do, too. > > Stuff deleted ... Yes, the TT desktop has that feature! Dragging any data file icon on to a program icon will simply launch the program with that data file's name as the input parameter. ================================================================== Derek Mui, Atari Corp, 1196 Borregas Ave, Sunnyvale, CA 94086 UUCP: {..ames!atari!mui} Disclaimer: Opinions expressed here are my own and they may be hazardous to your mind. ==================================================================
schlut@oski.toppoint.de (Olaf Schlueter) (09/18/90)
In article <1990Sep14.140529.1831@chinet.chi.il.us> saj@chinet.chi.il.us (Stephen Jacobs) writes: > >- Support GEM take parameter ( GTP ) type. > > My understanding is that existing compilers don't support passing parameters > to GEM applications. Am I mistaken? Is this going to be supported somehow? Every compiler I have seen for ST computers (lots of C, Modula, Pascal) supports parameter passing to any program: they do not care about the application type. For example even the first version of 1st Word can handle Filenames as parameters ('Install Application' 'DOC'). This feature works also with Calamus (CDK), Turbo C (C-Files). All you need to do with current desktop versions ist to use 'Install Application' (or something similar - i've never seen an english TOS version) in the EXTRAS Menu. However, you will probably have to play around with the location of RSC files (and CFG's and HLP's and ...). This is one example how bad documentation can prohibit the use of a really nice feature. It took more than four years, sloppy speaking, to spread the information about how shel_find() works, and to release a TOS version (1.4) that implements it in an intelligent manner. A lot of programs for the ST in use today don't use this routine. As the result you will probably get problems using the 'Install Application' Feature. Even using TOS 1.4 1st Word Plus versions started via double click on a DOC file icon will probably fail to load the default printer configuration PRINTER.CFG. (disclaimer: I've only seen 2.x versions). Greetings, -- Olaf Schlueter, Sandkuhle 4-6, 2300 Kiel 1, FRG, schlut@oski.toppoint.de ! We have to pay for incoming mail, so don't reply or keep short !
bill@mwca.UUCP (Bill Sheppard) (09/18/90)
In article <A1829639471@thelake.mn.org> steve@thelake.mn.org (Steve Yelvington) writes: >... >I would like to see a Desktop that allowed me to drag a data file to a >program icon. That would let me install my own print output formatter >or communications program on the Desktop as if it were a device. I believe >the IXI desktop for Unix works that way -- perhaps others do, too... > Steve Yelvington up at the lake in Minnesota Gemini (shareware alternative desktop widely available) supports dragging file(s) to desktop icons to pass as parameters - I do this all the time with MicroEmacs. Neodesk 3 claims this feature, I believe. Will someone please holler here when they actually get a Neodesk 3? -- ################################################################################ # Bill Sheppard -- bills@microware.com -- {uunet,sun}!mcrware!mwca!bill # # Microware Systems Corporation --- OS-9: Seven generations beyond __/_!! # #######Opinions expressed are my own, though you'd be wise to adopt them!#######
ekrimen@csuchico.edu (Ed Krimen) (09/18/90)
bill@mwca.UUCP (Bill Sheppard) writes:
- Will someone please holler here when they actually get a Neodesk 3?
As long as I'm connected to this net, you'll hear. :^) I sent my
upgrade money in the day after I received the newsletter.