edb762bbp1@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au (09/13/90)
Hi there poor ST users
im back again......
Firstly, the 520St cannot hardware scroll. It has to move each pixel
individually, alot like an Amstrad.
The 520 cannot produce 16 voice stereo sound through software.
It does not have Dynamic Hires- 4096 colours at 704*580.
It does not have a blitter chip that is used.
The AMIGA is now outselling the ST in England and America.
The Obese Agnus Graphics chip supports resolutions of above 1000*1000
The 520 can only produce sawtooth sound waves, not sine, or white noise etc.
The flickering of the screen in called Interlace and doubles the vertical
resolution of the screen. without this resolutions of 704*290 are available,
with it resolutions of 704*580 are available.
The ST can only use 16 colours in higher resolutions as opposed to 16,32,64
and 4096 on the AMIGA.
It is sick when the new ST `Amiga beater' just doesn't perform as well as
the Amiga. This also admits that the Amiga is a better computer.
The ST is only 10% faster than the Amiga however the ST does not have any
custom chips to carry out complex tasks and leave the 68000 for more pressing
tasks.
BYE
PETRA.saj@chinet.chi.il.us (Stephen Jacobs) (09/13/90)
I've got it!!!! PETRA is really *BIFF*!!!!
(for the businesslike among netters: BIFF provokes a lot of wasted bandwidth by
posting idiotic and inflamatory notes, all in caps, to argumentative groups)
Steve J.rehrauer@apollo.HP.COM (Steve Rehrauer) (09/13/90)
In article <101.26ef7641@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au> edb762bbp1@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au writes: >Hi there poor ST users > im back again...... > Firstly, the 520St cannot hardware scroll. It has to move each pixel >individually, alot like an Amstrad. > The 520 cannot produce 16 voice stereo sound through software. > It does not have Dynamic Hires- 4096 colours at 704*580. > It does not have a blitter chip that is used. > The AMIGA is now outselling the ST in England and America. > The Obese Agnus Graphics chip supports resolutions of above 1000*1000 > The 520 can only produce sawtooth sound waves, not sine, or white noise etc. > The flickering of the screen in called Interlace and doubles the vertical > resolution of the screen. without this resolutions of 704*290 are available, > with it resolutions of 704*580 are available. > The ST can only use 16 colours in higher resolutions as opposed to 16,32,64 > and 4096 on the AMIGA. > It is sick when the new ST `Amiga beater' just doesn't perform as well as > the Amiga. This also admits that the Amiga is a better computer. > The ST is only 10% faster than the Amiga however the ST does not have any > custom chips to carry out complex tasks and leave the 68000 for more pressing > tasks. Hi there, poor ST-bashing Amiga owners who lack a life! I'm back for the first time, and I can even use appropriate punctuation... Firstly, the life-lacking ST-basher cannot think before it posts. It has to move each semblance of thought onto the keyboard individually a character at a time, a lot like the proverbial room-full-of-monkeys. The l-l ST-basher cannot produce meaningful sound, only volume. It does not have dynamic personality -- silly numbers are incessantly quoted instead. It does not have a brain that is used. (Must I drag it out to conclusion? I don't much like my ST anymore, I may buy an Amiga some day, and even I'm tired of seeing posts like yours -- most Amiga owners I know are far more sensible. We already know what you've quoted. Go away, you pitiful waste of a social security number...) -- >>"Aaiiyeeee! Death from above!"<< | (Steve) rehrauer@apollo.hp.com "Spontaneous human combustion - what luck!"| Apollo Computer (Hewlett-Packard)
hardware@rose.uwaterloo.ca () (09/13/90)
Funny last I heard all the Desktop stores that carried Amiga products went into BANKRUPTCY. The entire chain went under and when former employees asked for their commission money from Commodore for selling Amiga junk Commodore spit in their face and gave them nothing. If this is the kind of service you give to loyal employees I can imagine the service you give to joe smoe. Also an entire chain of phase unlimited stores across Eastern Canada went under sales were down across the board for Amiga so dont come bragging about a company that has massive loans to support a computer with no brain. Oh while we are at it lets talk about the missing desktop. How come you have to add a CLI to run everything on the Amiga?? Cant even make a proper desktop. Who wants to type everything in to get things to run??? Now Im back to DOS on the IBM which is outdated since 1985. How come the Amiga costs almost twice as much as the ST? How come the icons are so huge you feel your still sitting in front of a commodore 64? And lastly who paid you to bother us in the ST area anyways?
chu@acsu.buffalo.edu (john c chu) (09/13/90)
In article <101.26ef7641@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au> edb762bbp1@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au writes:
[material that any ST/Amiga flame war veteran should know, plus some opinion]
since my mail to "PETRA" has bounced back at me, I'll give the
abbreviated response:
So what?
You haven't justified why your opinion is so important.
Flames via mail (and leave a REAL username this time)
Followup to alt.flame
john
chu@autarch.acsu.buffalo.educbdougla@uokmax.uucp (Collin Broad Douglas) (09/14/90)
In article <101.26ef7641@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au> edb762bbp1@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au writes: >Hi there poor ST users > im back again...... > Firstly, the 520St cannot hardware scroll. It has to move each pixel >individually, alot like an Amstrad. > The 520 cannot produce 16 voice stereo sound through software. > It does not have Dynamic Hires- 4096 colours at 704*580. > It does not have a blitter chip that is used. > The AMIGA is now outselling the ST in England and America. > The Obese Agnus Graphics chip supports resolutions of above 1000*1000 > The 520 can only produce sawtooth sound waves, not sine, or white noise etc. > The flickering of the screen in called Interlace and doubles the vertical > resolution of the screen. without this resolutions of 704*290 are available, > with it resolutions of 704*580 are available. > The ST can only use 16 colours in higher resolutions as opposed to 16,32,64 > and 4096 on the AMIGA. > It is sick when the new ST `Amiga beater' just doesn't perform as well as > the Amiga. This also admits that the Amiga is a better computer. > The ST is only 10% faster than the Amiga however the ST does not have any > custom chips to carry out complex tasks and leave the 68000 for more pressing > tasks. > BYE > PETRA. ever heard of the STe? Collin Douglas cbdougla@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu
paul@tredysvr.Tredydev.Unisys.COM (Paul Siu) (09/14/90)
Do not reply to little Petra's messages. If we just ignore it, may be he will go away. He's probably even have been kick off Amiga BBSs. Do not reply to his message until he grows up.
tinyguy@quiche.cs.mcgill.ca (Yeo-Hoon BAE) (09/14/90)
> Funny last I heard all the Desktop stores that carried Amiga >products went into BANKRUPTCY. The entire chain went under and when >former employees asked for their commission money from Commodore for >selling Amiga junk Commodore spit in their face and gave them nothing. >If this is the kind of service you give to loyal employees I can imagine >the service you give to joe smoe. Also an entire chain of phase unlimited >stores across Eastern Canada went under sales were down across the board >for Amiga so dont come bragging about a company that has massive loans >to support a computer with no brain. > > Oh while we are at it lets talk about the missing desktop. How come you >have to add a CLI to run everything on the Amiga?? Cant even make a What are you talking about? Have you ever used Amiga before? Most of my apllication software I use, I NEVER use CLI with it! I can't see a single reason why I should. I use CLI when I'm doing Programming or other things which can be done more easily on CLI. >proper desktop. Who wants to type everything in to get things to run??? Now >Im back to DOS on the IBM which is outdated since 1985.How come the Amiga costs >almost twice as much as the ST? How come the icons are so huge you feel >your still sitting in front of a commodore 64? And lastly who paid you to >bother us in the ST area anyways? What models are you comparaing with??? I didn't know A500 was twice the price of ST(any model?).... And don't tell me that A500 only has 512k since most A500 users have 1Meg and it is internally expandable to 8(or was it 9?) Megs now... No flames please, I'm only defending Amiga, I couldn't resist after reading those insults. ************************************************************************* * Yeo-Hoon Bae * Amiga /// * * tinyguy@calvin.cs.mcgill.ca * 2000 /// * * tinyguy@quiche.cs.mcgill.ca * \\\/// * * Amiga2000 + 3MB + 48MB HD + KX-P1124 + DiamondScan * \XX/ * *************************************************************************
swood@vela.acs.oakland.edu ( EVENSONG) (09/14/90)
You mean the amiga still need to use a kickstart and workbench disk to get you going? And you still need to use that cli???? And this is supposed to be a superior computer. hmm. that was the whole reason that I stopped working on the amiga. swood -- Only four more days till small | swood@argo.acs.oakland.edu game season in Michigan!! | swood@vela.acs.oakland.edu UUCP:...!uunet!umich!vela!swood | swood@nucleus.mi.org Bitnet: swood@oakland | swood@unix.secs.oakland.edu
rrd@hpfinote.HP.COM (Ray Depew x2419) (09/14/90)
Re: another appearance from some jerk codenamed Petra > From: edb762bbp1@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au > Date: Thu, 13 Sep 1990 02:06:24 GMT > Subject: it would be nice > Message-ID: <101.26ef7641@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au> > Organization: Computer Centre, Monash University, Australia > Hi there poor ST users > im back again...... [ tons of crap deleted, along the linues of "my computer can beat up your computer ... " really mature, useful information, finishing with the following: ] > It is sick when the new ST `Amiga beater' just doesn't perform as well as > the Amiga. This also admits that the Amiga is a better computer.... > BYE > PETRA. I'm cross-posting this to our colleagues in comp.sys.amiga to ask for their help in shutting this guy up. Personal computing has come a long way since the days when users had to assert their manhood by playing "my computer's better than yours." It's been several months since anyone in comp.sys.atari.st even played "Ataris are better than [insert brand name here]", or even "680X0s are better than 80X86s". Attempts to start such a discussion in this notesgroup are generally squelched or ignored, as they are totally useless and a waste of bandwidth -- and meaningless in today's marketplace. We prefer to use c.s.a.st as a forum for exchanging ideas on how to get more out of our ST's. Occasionally I even jump into c.s.amiga to see if there's something that might be useful for my ST (like DungeonMaster hints :-) We don't need this kind of garbage. It speaks of a third-grade maturity and a 1970's mentality. I think we (except for "Petra" -- too cowardly to use his real name!) are beyond that. It's a shame to see a computer as nice as the Amiga wasted on a jerk like this. Please, "Petra", stay off the net until you can post something more constructive and meaningful. And stay off of c.s.atari.st until you buy one and have something useful to contribute. Anybody want to add anything? Regards Ray Depew HP Colorado IC Division rrd@hpfitst1.hp.com
don@brahms.udel.edu (Donald R Lloyd) (09/14/90)
In article <2998@vela.acs.oakland.edu> swood@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Scott Wood - EVENSONG) writes: >You mean the amiga still need to use a kickstart and workbench disk >to get you going? Only if you still have an old 1000. Everything else has kickstart in ROM. (even some 1000's have it). >And you still need to use that cli???? No, but it's there to provide extra flexibility for those who want to use it. I don't consider it a disadvantage in the slightest. >And this >is supposed to be a superior computer. hmm. that was the whole reason >that I stopped working on the amiga. It was apparently a long time ago that you stopped working on it....,
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (09/14/90)
In article <101.26ef7641@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au> edb762bbp1@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au writes: >Hi there poor ST users [....] it would be nice... If anyone in the future considering such an irresponsible posting would first sit down and ponder just how foolish such a posting is going to make you look. Whining about things you don't completely understand, flame bating, etc. does absolutely nothing constructive. And the last thing it'll ever do is convince anyone to come around to your way of thinking. You like your computer and should respect the fact that other folks may pick a different computer system for different reasons. And recognizing you as an Amiga enthusiast, the people in this group are going to be prejudiced against other Amiga enthusiasts who actually have something constructive to to say. it would be nice... If none of us ever saw another of these postings. -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy Get that coffee outta my face, put a Margarita in its place!
scoile@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Steve Coile) (09/14/90)
In article PETRA writes: >Hi there poor ST users > im back again...... . . . > It is sick when the new ST `Amiga beater' just doesn't perform as well as > the Amiga. This also admits that the Amiga is a better computer. . . . > BYE > PETRA. Okay, the Amiga is a better computer. Happy? It's not like most of us are going to run out and get a new computer. I personally have NO extra money, even if I WANTED to get an Amiga. I personally don't like the Amiga's set-up, nor Commodore itself. I like my ST because I like Atari. I have always like Atari, and I will stand by it because of it. Also, it's obvious that the ST can't stand up to the Ami3000 (or whatever the latest is). However, once (if ever) Atari puts out a comparable machine, THEN we can DISCUSS it (no flame wars please!). Finally, I'm sure most Atari owners are well aware of what we can and can not do in relation to the various other systems. I don't think we need to be reminded of Atari management's ineptitude. Thanks!! -Steve
entropy@rice-chex.ai.mit.edu (enthalpy) (09/15/90)
In article <912@tredysvr.Tredydev.Unisys.COM> paul@tredysvr.Tredydev.Unisys.COM (Paul Siu) writes:
Do not reply to little Petra's messages. If we just ignore it, may be he will
go away. He's probably even have been kick off Amiga BBSs. Do not reply to
his message until he grows up.
Come on, you don't really believe that, do you? I suggest direct
action, I.E. forwarding his message to the postmaster of his machine.
That's what I did, with a note explaining why I thought his behavior
was inappropriate usage of the net. I agree with you that replies to
his posts should not be put in this newsgroup or any other, however.
Internet: ncastellano@eagle.wesleyan.edu || entropy@ai.mit.edu
Bitnet: ncastellano@wesleyan.bitnet
Citadel: Sinkhole!dEADHEAd [@mast.citadel.moundst.mn.org]
Sniktnet: snikt!entropybradm@pro-grouch.cts.com (Brad Martin) (09/15/90)
In-Reply-To: message from edb762bbp1@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au Well, since you wish to flame against Atari, you really should know your Amiga specs, and should also compaire the Amiga vs. the STe. I am not going to bother with you any more, but you should know that the Amiga only has 8-bit 4 voice sound. NOT 16 voice sound. As an owner of both an Amiga and an ST I find that the ST is both easier and more stable to use. It has much more in the way of productivity software, and the software developes tend to push the envelope with it more then the Amiga software developers. Of course you Petra don't really care, all you want to do is bash something you have no idea about, but go ahead, I will ignore you from now on. You can live the rest of your life with you little Amiga for all I care. .>Brad Martin<. Cute tag lines on request.
Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com (09/15/90)
In response to "Petra's" comparisons of Amiga hardware features with ST
hardware features...
So what..?
I like my ST far better than the Amigas I've used, and that's the
bottom line...
BobRtinyguy@quiche.cs.mcgill.ca (Yeo-Hoon BAE) (09/16/90)
In article <2998@vela.acs.oakland.edu> swood@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Scott Wood - EVENSONG) writes: >You mean the amiga still need to use a kickstart and workbench disk >to get you going? And you still need to use that cli???? And this >is supposed to be a superior computer. hmm. that was the whole reason NO! Kickstart disk was only designed for the first machine - A1000, since then, 256k ROM has replaced it for A500 and A2000. On A3000, it has the new 2.0 ROM(s), 512k. It also comes with the older 1.3 ROM images on HD for compatability reason(2.0 is not 100% stable, yet.) And as I pointed out before, CLI is NOT necessary for running ordinary programs, such as WP, DTP, etc. I use it to program, in which case, I find CLI much more convinient than GUI interface, and I'm sure this is true on any machine if the machine offers both options.(Well, for most people). >that I stopped working on the amiga. >swood >-- >Only four more days till small | swood@argo.acs.oakland.edu >game season in Michigan!! | swood@vela.acs.oakland.edu >UUCP:...!uunet!umich!vela!swood | swood@nucleus.mi.org >Bitnet: swood@oakland | swood@unix.secs.oakland.edu -TG
aimd@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Davidson) (09/19/90)
In article <2285@gmuvax2.gmu.edu> scoile@gmuvax2.UUCP (Steve Coile) writes: >Okay, the Amiga is a better computer. Happy? It's not like most of us >are going to run out and get a new computer. I personally have NO extra >money, even if I WANTED to get an Amiga. I personally don't like the >Amiga's set-up, nor Commodore itself. I like my ST because I like >Atari. I have always like Atari, and I will stand by it because of it. Yuk, just because it's got a copper and super-flickery modes doesn't mean its better. In order to have a decent Amiga system you need loads of memory ( to run more than one program at a time), need more than one disk drive or a hard drive and a monitor to access the migrane-modes. Personally, I've never needed one of AmigaDos' biggest selling points - the multi-tasking, although I realise that all Amiga owners play Populous while they run massive ray-tracing sessions. (Well, actually you can't do both those things on the Amiga at one time but we'll keep quiet about that so that people think you can). -Mark.
jimmy@uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Jimmy Chan) (09/20/90)
In article <6419@castle.ed.ac.uk> aimd@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Davidson) writes: >Yuk, just because it's got a copper and super-flickery modes doesn't >mean its better. > >In order to have a decent Amiga system you need loads of memory ( to run >more than one program at a time), need more than one disk drive or a >hard drive and a monitor to access the migrane-modes. Don't remember needing loads of memory to run more than one program. Stock Amigas w/ 1 meg memory seem to multitask fine. A500 comes with only 1 built-in drive so that must mean it works fine for those people that have the A500 and no external drives. Who doesn't need a hard drive these days???? There is a flicker fixer available for the "migrane-modes" and I would like to see you try working w/o a monitor..8-)... Of course, you need an expensive multiscan monitor to work in high resolution unless you want to stay in low resolution for the rest of your computing days...each to his own I guess. > >Personally, I've never needed one of AmigaDos' biggest selling points - >the multi-tasking, although I realise that all Amiga owners play >Populous while they run massive ray-tracing sessions. (Well, actually >you can't do both those things on the Amiga at one time but we'll keep >quiet about that so that people think you can). > >-Mark. Actually Populous will not multitask or allow any other programs to run with it but that is because it is a game that wasn't designed to multitask. Actually some people do ray-tracing on Amigas, though I am not one, and they seem to enjoy multitasking. Don't know about you but I wouldn't want to sit there watching a screen computing the ray-trace but with multitasking you can let the ray-trace work in the background and do something else with the computer. Everyone that I know that are used to multitasking are very unhappy to go back to a single tasking system. Of course those that haven't used multitasking just can't understand why it's important for computers to have multitasking available. Just look at IBMs, Macs, even STs and how much they are trying to get a functional OS that multitasks. I still remember years ago, when the A1000 came out and everyone was saying what do we need multitasking for, now it seems quite a few naysayers are now pushing for it.
hardware@rose.uwaterloo.ca () (09/20/90)
Sorry to tell you Petra sad news for Amiga owners Third quarter report from ST Report says Amiga had a 3.5 Million dollar lose for the 4th quarter of 1989. Oh well that burst another bubble in commodore earnings and losses. Personally I feel sorry for former Amiga employees at bankrupt commodore stores across Canada. If these stores closed shop that means less dealers to sell their products, which in turns means lost revenue. Hardware Dave Just stating the facts!
don@brahms.udel.edu (Donald R Lloyd) (09/20/90)
In article <6419@castle.ed.ac.uk> aimd@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Davidson) writes: >In article <2285@gmuvax2.gmu.edu> scoile@gmuvax2.UUCP (Steve Coile) writes: >>Okay, the Amiga is a better computer. Happy? It's not like most of us >>are going to run out and get a new computer. I personally have NO extra >>money, even if I WANTED to get an Amiga. I personally don't like the >>Amiga's set-up, nor Commodore itself. I like my ST because I like >>Atari. I have always like Atari, and I will stand by it because of it. > >Yuk, just because it's got a copper and super-flickery modes doesn't >mean its better. > It's also got a blitter which actually gets used; the "super-flickery" modes do mean it's better... for those who need to work with video. The 3000 has a de-interlacer, the new Enhanced Chip Set for all Amigas will provide hi-res non-interlaced modes. Amigas don't have to be rebooted to switch resolutions, either... >In order to have a decent Amiga system you need loads of memory ( to run >more than one program at a time), need more than one disk drive or a >hard drive and a monitor to access the migrane-modes. > The vast majority get by with 1 meg. Yes, more memory is nicer, especially when you do a lot of multitasking. As far as needing a HD or more than one floppy, I wouldn't want to run ANY system in a 1-floppy configuration. >Personally, I've never needed one of AmigaDos' biggest selling points - >the multi-tasking, although I realise that all Amiga owners play >Populous while they run massive ray-tracing sessions. (Well, actually >you can't do both those things on the Amiga at one time but we'll keep >quiet about that so that people think you can). Why can't it do this? Certainly on a 68000 machine you'll see a slowdown. But you can set one task at a lower priority to speed up the other. Of course, I can plug in a 68010, or an '020 or '030 board, or buy a 3000, for various levels of speed increase. I have yet to see an ST running on faster than a 14MHz 68000, mostly, I assume, because TOS doesn't support the 0[1-4]0. I can speed my system up anywhere from 5-10% for $10 (68010) to over 20 times faster (even more for floating point) with a 50 MHz '030 board. I never really 'needed' multitasking either... till I got used to it. I'm lharcing some files right now, while running this term program, a text editor with a >500K text file loaded in, an open shell window, and a directory utility, as well as 4 or 5 little utilities I automatically run at startup. My 3 meg machine reports (via one of those aforementioned utilities) that I have 1953K free. > >-Mark.
don@brahms.udel.edu (Donald R Lloyd) (09/20/90)
In article <1990Sep19.211956.1822@watdragon.waterloo.edu> hardware@rose.uwaterloo.ca writes: > Third quarter report from ST Report says Amiga had a 3.5 Million >dollar lose for the 4th quarter of 1989. Oh well that burst another >bubble in commodore earnings and losses. Personally I feel sorry for >former Amiga employees at bankrupt commodore stores across Canada. >If these stores closed shop that means less dealers to sell their >products, which in turns means lost revenue. > What about Atari's earnings for that quarter? Considering Amigas are actually _selling_, I'd expect Atari has a lot less profit to work with. Of course, Atari hasn't spent millions on advertising, a dozen or so major new products, or large numbers of new employees. Haven't heard about any stores closing in Canada, but here in the US they've just signed on 400 new dealers. > > Just stating the facts! But nowhere near all of them.
saj@chinet.chi.il.us (Stephen Jacobs) (09/20/90)
First: I like the ST line. I like Amigas. I have friends with both kinds of
machines. Let's stay friendly: we're between iAPX machines of the past and new
architectures of the future (I think VLIW will beat RISC in the end, but that
argument is for another time and place.....)
Thing about Amiga multitasking is that it was introduced slightly buggy at a
time when the applications weren't really obvious. Now it seems to be pretty
solid and the applications are ready, or close to ready.
Fortunately for the ST line, people inside and (mostly) outside Atari have
obviously been watching. Right now I'd guess ST multitasking is about even
with IBM PC multitasking: if you know enough and care enough you can make it
work.
Steve J.jfbruno@rodan.acs.syr.edu (John Bruno) (09/20/90)
In article <13857@brahms.udel.edu> don@brahms.udel.edu (Donald R Lloyd) writes: >In article <6419@castle.ed.ac.uk> aimd@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Davidson) writes: >>In article <2285@gmuvax2.gmu.edu> scoile@gmuvax2.UUCP (Steve Coile) writes: >>>Okay, the Amiga is a better computer. Happy? It's not like most of us >>>are going to run out and get a new computer. I personally have NO extra >>>money, even if I WANTED to get an Amiga. I personally don't like the >>>Amiga's set-up, nor Commodore itself. I like my ST because I like >>>Atari. I have always like Atari, and I will stand by it because of it. >> >>Yuk, just because it's got a copper and super-flickery modes doesn't >>mean its better. >> > It's also got a blitter which actually gets used; the "super-flickery" >modes do mean it's better... for those who need to work with video. The 3000 >has a de-interlacer, the new Enhanced Chip Set for all Amigas will provide >hi-res non-interlaced modes. Amigas don't have to be rebooted to switch >resolutions, either... > >>In order to have a decent Amiga system you need loads of memory ( to run >>more than one program at a time), need more than one disk drive or a >>hard drive and a monitor to access the migrane-modes. >> > The vast majority get by with 1 meg. Yes, more memory is nicer, especially >when you do a lot of multitasking. As far as needing a HD or more than one >floppy, I wouldn't want to run ANY system in a 1-floppy configuration. > >>Personally, I've never needed one of AmigaDos' biggest selling points - >>the multi-tasking, although I realise that all Amiga owners play >>Populous while they run massive ray-tracing sessions. (Well, actually >>you can't do both those things on the Amiga at one time but we'll keep >>quiet about that so that people think you can). > > Why can't it do this? Certainly on a 68000 machine you'll see a slowdown. >But you can set one task at a lower priority to speed up the other. Of course, >I can plug in a 68010, or an '020 or '030 board, or buy a 3000, for various >levels of speed increase. I have yet to see an ST running on faster than a >14MHz 68000, mostly, I assume, because TOS doesn't support the 0[1-4]0. >I can speed my system up anywhere from 5-10% for $10 (68010) to over 20 times >faster (even more for floating point) with a 50 MHz '030 board. > I never really 'needed' multitasking either... till I got used to it. >I'm lharcing some files right now, while running this term program, a text >editor with a >500K text file loaded in, an open shell window, and a directory >utility, as well as 4 or 5 little utilities I automatically run at startup. >My 3 meg machine reports (via one of those aforementioned utilities) that >I have 1953K free. >> >>-Mark.
rrd@hpfinote.HP.COM (Ray Depew x2419) (09/21/90)
> Personally, I've never needed one of AmigaDos' biggest selling points - > the multi-tasking, although I realise that all Amiga owners play > Populous while they run massive ray-tracing sessions. I can counter this with a self-serving, overgeneralized statement: "People who say they don't need multitasking have never really used it." Right now, I'm running notes in this window while another window is cranking through a statistical report for me. When the report spews out the data I need, I will use a third window to pull the report into a troff document I'm composing. When I'm ready to send the troff document, I will start up my mailer. But to compose the distribution list, I need to look back through some old files to find the current addresses and pathnames for my colleagues. Some of the files are on another system, so I'll open yet another window to access that other system. Meanwhile, notes is sitting patiently, waiting for me to get back to it. No games, no Tetris or Zork (at least, not on HP's time :-), just real work. I used to have a DOS machine. I thought Windows 3.0 was a joke (still do), and I didn't think I needed multitasking either. I will LOVE IT when my home computer has a multitasking OS. (Until then, I still like my ST :-) Regards Ray Depew HP Colorado IC Division rrd@hpfitst1.hp.com
Ryszard.Nipl@mop.luth.se (Ryszard Nipl) (09/22/90)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: HELP! Calamus vs. TOS version!
Summary: Help needed!
Expires:
Sender: Ryszard.Nipl@mop.luth.se
Followup-To:
Distribution: comp.sys.atari.st
Organization: University of Lulea, Sweden
Keywords: Calamus, TOS
Hi Netters,
I have purchased the Calamus (version 1.09) from USA (thank you,
Steve, for your tips!).
Immediately after coming back from the post office and having
the parcel unpacked I put on and tried to set it up and ....
all my expectations have "gone with the wind". I got the following
diagnostics on the Calamus logo:
"CALAMUS doesn't work on this TOS version"
and very strange "R3/2" in the upper left corner of the screen just
on the Atari logo.
My computer is one of the oldest Mega4 I know with its number A1 7
(yes 1987!) and 4 (many zeroes) 232 on the very end. So I suppose it
must be TOS 1.0 what I have (or may be 1.1 as under start procedure
the GDOS resident version 1.1 comes).
My questions are:
1. which version of TOS should I buy to satisfy Calamus needs?
2. which version should I choose: 1.4 (or its Mega matched version
1.5, is it?) or may be 1.6?
3. how can I purchase the TOS chip from the USA? Do you have some
good addresses with nice prices? Which is generally price level
for TOS chips?
4. how about Calamus under Minix? Has anyone of you any experiences?
Thank you in advance
Ryszard
PS: Extra questions (rhetoric ones, I don't wait any answer!):
1. why it is nothing said about TOS version needed in the Calamus
descriptions, offerts, advertisments, even handbooks and manuals?
(Never I meet it!)
2. why contents of SYS folder described in the handbook is (in about
2/3 of the list) different from the real SYS folder contents as
delivered?
There are files: CALAMUS with extensions: ALT, CEF, CHT, HLP, RSC
ENGLISH " " : CHP, CWB
LAN_ID without extension.
May it function?
I am impatiently awaiting. Thanks
Ryszardjcohen@lehi3b15.csee.Lehigh.EDU (Josh Cohen [890918]) (09/23/90)
Look petra, no on really gives two craps what you say. The majority of the people here enjoy using the atari, and you are not going to change that we don't care for your remarks. I must tell you that reading your message reminded me of the olden days of 300 baud, phreaking and rampant wars over the commodore 64 and the atari 8bit. Your drive is simply your either, loathing for atari,or your love for commodore. Well, some of us feel the same way about you and your commodore, but we are mature enough to suppress these infantile feelings and smart enough not to waste network bandwidth with it. Again, this group is for people interested in the st to discuss the uses of the machine, I do not beleive you are a part of this. Please go away.... jcohen@islsun1.mse.lehigh.edu (if you care to flame, mail me here ,the rest of the net is far less interested in what you have to say than I am. ( I dont care either )
aiajms@castle.ed.ac.uk (-=Andy=-) (09/23/90)
Well well well,....I think Mr Davidsons best quote of the century must be :- "Wish I Had Bought An Amiga" when he found his Hard Drive had trashed for the million time. Despite being against multi-tasking, he was still interested in getting someones multi-tasking kernel and as for hi-res displays, at least Amiga owners dont have to pull plugs out of their computers every 2 secs for the second monitor they would have to buy!! And as for Copper processing, well a DMA channel devoted to a graphics co-processor must be better than not having one.....so I presume that must simply boil down to jealousy. And as for playing populous and running ray-tracing....well most games take complete control of the computer for many reasons (not just for software protection) and many professional packages such as pro-write, Excellence! and everything that runs from Amiga dos can multi-task with other tasks. Mark also likes Soundtracker, so much so he is searching every PD software library in the land for it. His first introduction to this program was on the Amiga....my Amiga (btw we live in the same flat!). He's also quite excited about DPaint on the ST and has been ordering many Amiga animations which have been converted (Walker Demo, The Chase etc). Another interesting point, we play Kick Off 2 quite a bit in our flat. We have both Amiga and ST versions of the game......and when I play Mark..... 95% of the time it is played on my Amiga......and not the ST. Why? Because the ST version runs in super-flicker head-ache mode!!!!! I believe in critical argument, after all freedom of speech is fundamental to our very existence. But I would prefer to have a qualified argument, and not some bandwidth wasting drivel. Secondly, I was under the impression this was comp.sys.atari.st which is meant to be about ST hardware/software/news/tips etc. From this, I find it very hard to comprehend why the Amiga is a discussion point. And as for this rogue Amiga person who has been sending unqualified messages, you have my sympathy for his abuse of netiquette. I have posted this message after my flatmate had a good chuckle about what he had posted to the net (he refused to tell me himself). The message, when I read it was nothing short of childish ignorance and I apologise to the net on his behalf. -=Andy=-
aiajms@castle.ed.ac.uk (-=Andy=-) (09/23/90)
In article <13860@brahms.udel.edu> don@brahms.udel.edu (Donald R Lloyd) writes: >In article <1990Sep19.211956.1822@watdragon.waterloo.edu> hardware@rose.uwaterloo.ca writes: >> Third quarter report from ST Report says Amiga had a 3.5 Million >>dollar lose for the 4th quarter of 1989. Oh well that burst another >>bubble in commodore earnings and losses. Personally I feel sorry for >>former Amiga employees at bankrupt commodore stores across Canada. >>If these stores closed shop that means less dealers to sell their >>products, which in turns means lost revenue. >> Dear oh dear, Gallup reported that the Amiga now had 28% of the UK Home Computer market which was a good increase on the year before. The ST had dropped to only 16% of the computer market. I guess if Commodore are in great trouble, Atari must be in real sh*t. I report only the facts -=Andy=-
jimmy@unix.cis.pitt.edu (James G Tauberg) (09/24/90)
In article <6440@castle.ed.ac.uk> aiajms@castle.ed.ac.uk (-=Andy=-) writes: > >... and as for hi-res displays, at least Amiga owners >dont have to pull plugs out of their computers every 2 secs for the >second monitor they would have to buy!! This shows obvious ignorance. There are several monitor switchers available for the ST. There are also switchers which allow the use of 3rd party MULTI-Syncs.... Of course WE already know this... It would be nice if these AMIGA USERS would GET THEIR FACTS STRAIGHT... or better yet just stop their childish challenges. It is really just making them look stupid. Then -=andy=- writes: > >I believe in critical argument, after all freedom of speech is >fundamental to our very existence. But I would prefer to have a >qualified argument, and not some bandwidth wasting drivel. Secondly, I >was under the impression this was comp.sys.atari.st which is meant to be >about ST hardware/software/news/tips etc. From this, I find it very hard >to comprehend why the Amiga is a discussion point. WE TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU. I believe most of your article was bandwith wasting drive! comp.sys.atari.st IS MEANT FOR DISCUSSION OF ST. Jim Tauberg
jimmy@unix.cis.pitt.edu (James G Tauberg) (09/24/90)
Please, When responding to this article, DON'T quote it in its entirety. Most of it isn't worth reading even once. Thanks in advance, Jim Tauberg
cs63bld@unccvax.uncc.edu (b. daniels) (09/24/90)
E N O U G H !
I've been gone for three days, and on my return I find that
there is STILL a #%#@! Amiga/ST flame war going on! AARRGGH!
Look.
Let me state some simple requests.
1. If you have an Amiga, great! It's a neat machine and there's a lot
of better things you can do with it than write letters telling ST users
how terrible their machine/company/etc. are. To find out some of these
better things to do, read comp.sys.amiga or any other amiga group. You'll
find people who would love to talk to you about your machine! Plus, us
ST users might be able to get back to some worthwhile discussions!
2. If you've got an ST, please please PLEASE do not reply to any of the
current 'your ST sucks' messages with 'Oh yeah?! well let me tell you'
type messages. This only encourages this @#$%! war to continue, and we've
got better things to talk about. Thanks.
Apologies for this flame, but I've been putting up with this obnoxiousness
since PETRA, (may he never find access again) started it all.
Thank you,
Brian Daniels
(just a happy ST user who would like to read about the ST, not the Amiga)
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I access the net, therefore I am...
Brian Daniels (cs63bld@unccvax.uucp)
----------------------------------------------------------------------bradm@pro-grouch.cts.com (Brad Martin) (09/26/90)
In-Reply-To: message from rrd@hpfinote.HP.COM I have to agree, people don't understand the power of multi-tasking untill they have it. Right now, on my Amiga, I am ray-tracing an animation, and working on an article for ST Report, and typing here. It was announced at Glendale that Atari is working on a multi-tasking TOS (I won't hold my breath) and when that becomes available I am sure I will be using my ST more then I do now. .>Brad Martin<. Cute tag lines on request.
navas@cory.Berkeley.EDU (David C. Navas) (10/03/90)
In article <1990Oct3.012837.21296@kcbbs.gen.nz> STT@kcbbs.gen.nz (Michael Clark) writes: >One thing you forgot! the Amiga 500's originally were 512k, until recently >when Commodore upgraded them to 1 Meg. True, and the original A1000's had only 256k... >Also to upgrade them to 9 Meg you have to get a card like the SIMM card >which sits in the CPU slot! this allows you to add more RAM! it cannot be >done directly onto the mother board. Of course it can! It's a hack of course... At any rate, I have seen at least one 4(2?)Meg board which stuffs itself into the mini-slot under the A500's belly. That's a recent board which you may not have heard of. Also, to add a harddrive to an A500 requires using that "CPU slot," and most harddrive boxes come with room to put your memory -- adding more memory to an A500 is no longer as painful as it was in the days when I had one... >--- From a Ex Amiga user. Just clearing the air, no flames implied, and absolutely no support to the "folks" who started this thread... ---from a current Amiga owner :) David Navas navas@sim.berkeley.edu "Excuse my ignorance, but I've been run over by my train of thought." -me
tinyguy@quiche.cs.mcgill.ca (Yeo-Hoon BAE) (10/03/90)
>sound program I have seen. And thats on a old ST. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >--- An EX Amiga User Be careful what you say..... It might create another war.... -TG
tinyguy@quiche.cs.mcgill.ca (Yeo-Hoon BAE) (10/03/90)
>which sits in the CPU slot! this allows you to add more RAM! it cannot be >done directly onto the mother board. > >--- From a Ex Amiga user. Again, since those days, it has changed a little. Now you don't even have to open the A500 case to upgrade more than 512k memory. You can either plug in a board in the old 512k slot or buy HD which can take more memories. Just stating the facts. -TG
STT@kcbbs.gen.nz (Michael Clark) (10/03/90)
Lines: 10 Well said, I was getting sick of the ST bashing I had back in brisbane when I ran the only ST BBS for the whole city and was surrounded by Amiga users. But I wound up selling my Amiga 2000b so I could buy a 4 Meg STe to joing my 2.5 Meg 1040ST. As for sound, sure the Amiga has stereo sound, but quartet beats any Amiga sound program I have seen. And thats on a old ST. --- An EX Amiga User
STT@kcbbs.gen.nz (Michael Clark) (10/03/90)
Lines: 8 One thing you forgot! the Amiga 500's originally were 512k, until recently when Commodore upgraded them to 1 Meg. Also to upgrade them to 9 Meg you have to get a card like the SIMM card which sits in the CPU slot! this allows you to add more RAM! it cannot be done directly onto the mother board. --- From a Ex Amiga user.