darekm@microsoft.UUCP (Darek MIHOCKA) (10/02/90)
In some brainless article stevendd@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Doug) writes: > >Does anyone know of a PD or shareware program to load in a picture [etc. etc.] ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ A day doesn't go by that someone doesn't ask a question similar to this. e.g. "does anyone know of a PD desktop publishing program as good as Calamus?" Oh, of course, shareware programs are also ok, since you don't really have to pay for them when you get them. If you can pirate something, that's ok too. I realize that this is a free network, but why must we limit ourselves to talking about PD or shareware software? Why don't we broaden our horizons and consider commercial software as well? If Doug has asked "Does anyone know of a program..." then I could promply recommend 4 different commercial packages (Easel ST, Quick ST II, Neodesk 2, DC Desktop) that are capable of installing background pictures in either color or monochrome. I believe that 3 of those pacakges even have free demos that you can try out. But as it is, Doug appears to be too cheap to want to consider these alternatives, and so he will have to settle with my two cents worth response to his question: Doug, I don't know of any PD or shareware programs that load desktop pictures in color. I guess you're just SOL if you want to put a picture on your color desktop. Too bad. Sounded like a neat idea. Maybe you should try writing such a program, and then try selling it to your fellow netters. I'm sure you would make a lot of money. Thank you Doug, for letting all the ST developers out there know that you (and many like you I'm sure) are too cheap to consider spending $20 to $50 on a piece of software. Hell, why should you be forced to pay money for a program that someone else spent time developing. All software should be free right? And distributed freely on all BBSs and networks so that you don't have to even spend money on long distance phone bills or GEnie charges. Here's a novel idea: all ST developers should mail out free copies of their software to all ST users everywhere! The users wouldn't even have to return the disks. It sure makes me all warm and mushy inside knowing that there is a future in commercial software development on the ST. - Darek ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Darek Mihocka All views expressed are my own. Branch Always Software, 14150 NE 20th St. Suite 302, Bellevue, WA 98007 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
entropy@mole.ai.mit.edu (Nick Castellano) (10/02/90)
In article <57880@microsoft.UUCP>, darekm@microsoft.UUCP writes: >In some brainless article stevendd@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Doug) writes: >> >>Does anyone know of a PD or shareware program to load in a picture [etc. etc.] > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >A day doesn't go by that someone doesn't ask a question similar to this. >e.g. "does anyone know of a PD desktop publishing program as good as Calamus?" >Oh, of course, shareware programs are also ok, since you don't really have >to pay for them when you get them. If you can pirate something, that's ok too. Did he say anything about pirating? Stop hallucinating, please. >I realize that this is a free network, but why must we limit ourselves to >talking about PD or shareware software? Why don't we broaden our horizons Because he wanted a free program, not one he'd have to pay for. I see plenty of discussion of commercial software here. >and consider commercial software as well? If Doug has asked "Does anyone >know of a program..." then I could promply recommend 4 different commercial >packages (Easel ST, Quick ST II, Neodesk 2, DC Desktop) that are capable of >installing background pictures in either color or monochrome. I believe that >3 of those pacakges even have free demos that you can try out. But as it is, >Doug appears to be too cheap to want to consider these alternatives, and so >he will have to settle with my two cents worth response to his question: Too cheap? Maybe he has better things to spend his money on, like software that's more useful than a desktop picture loader. >Doug, I don't know of any PD or shareware programs that load desktop pictures >in color. I guess you're just SOL if you want to put a picture on your color >desktop. Too bad. Sounded like a neat idea. Maybe you should try writing such >a program, and then try selling it to your fellow netters. I'm sure you would >make a lot of money. Maybe he could write it and give it out for free. I certainly wouldn't pay good money for such a frivolous thing as prettying up the desktop. Especially since I don't use the desktop, I use Gulam (Oh my God, you mean...yes...gasp...a freeware shell!) >Thank you Doug, for letting all the ST developers out there know that you >(and many like you I'm sure) are too cheap to consider spending $20 to $50 >on a piece of software. Hell, why should you be forced to pay money for a Thank you, Darek, for making an ass of yourself in a public forum. >program that someone else spent time developing. All software should be free >right? And distributed freely on all BBSs and networks so that you don't have I think this is a great idea. Anyone else who does should contact the Free Software Foundation (rms@gnu.ai.mit.edu) and the League for Programming Freedom (league@prep.ai.mit.edu), let them know you support the free software movement, and ask for more information on these excellent organizations. >to even spend money on long distance phone bills or GEnie charges. Here's a >novel idea: all ST developers should mail out free copies of their software >to all ST users everywhere! The users wouldn't even have to return the disks. Again, a great idea. But, make sure it's all freeware and shareware. >It sure makes me all warm and mushy inside knowing that there is a future in >commercial software development on the ST. Me too. There is a future for commercial software. If they can write better software than what's available for free. -- | | | ncastellano@{eagle.wesleyan.edu, wesleyan.bitnet} | | | entropy@ai.mit.edu / | \ Sinkhole!dEADHEAd[@mast.citadel.moundst.mn.org] (call 203-873-8518) / | \ snikt!entropy
jeh@sisd.kodak.com (Ed Hanway) (10/02/90)
entropy@mole.ai.mit.edu (Nick Castellano) writes: >In article <57880@microsoft.UUCP>, darekm@microsoft.UUCP writes: >>In some brainless article stevendd@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Doug) writes: >>> >>>Does anyone know of a PD or shareware program to ... >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >>A day doesn't go by that someone doesn't ask a question similar to this. >>e.g. "does anyone know of a PD desktop publishing program as good as Calamus?" >>Oh, of course, shareware programs are also ok, since you don't really have >>to pay for them when you get them. If you can pirate something, that's ok too. > >Did he say anything about pirating? Stop hallucinating, please. > >>I realize that this is a free network, but why must we limit ourselves to >>talking about PD or shareware software? Why don't we broaden our horizons > >Because he wanted a free program, not one he'd have to pay for. I see ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >plenty of discussion of commercial software here. Shareware is not free. If you use a shareware program, you are supposed to pay for it, otherwise you are stealing from the author just as much as if the program was commercial. I don't mean to single out the individual request that started this thread, but these common "PD or shareware" requests indicate a basic misunderstanding of the concept of shareware, and it's not really the fault of the person making the request. Reinforcing the idea that "shareware is free" are: "Public Domain software houses" that sell disks of PD and shareware, but neglect to distinguish one from the other. It's not until you read the documentation on the disk that you find that the author expects $25 on top of the $5 that you paid to someone else for the disk. Some "shareware" authors themselves who slap a pricetag on an unsupported hack that isn't worth anything to anybody. My point is that "PD or shareware" requests make little sense.(1) They should be either "PD or freeware" if you don't want something badly enough to pay for it, or "PD, freeware, shareware, or low cost software" if you are willing to pay. (1) Actually, there is some sense to a request like "Can someone _send me_ a PD, freeware or shareware program to ..." if you can't or don't want to spend the time and effort going to a dealer and evaluating commercial programs. Since this has nothing specifically to do with the atari st, I would prefer to follow up in email. Ed Hanway uunet!sisd!jeh My opinions, not my employer's.
stevendd@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Doug) (10/03/90)
In article <57880@microsoft.UUCP> darekm@microsoft.UUCP (Darek MIHOCKA) writes: >In some brainless article stevendd@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Doug) writes: >> >>Does anyone know of a PD or shareware program to load in a picture [etc. etc.] > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >A day doesn't go by that someone doesn't ask a question similar to this. >e.g. "does anyone know of a PD desktop publishing program as good as Calamus?" >Oh, of course, shareware programs are also ok, since you don't really have >to pay for them when you get them. If you can pirate something, that's ok too. Darek I asked for a program to simply change the background of the desktop, I didn't ask for a replacement operating system. I simply wanted to change the background. Before some helpful people (not you) informed me that DC desktop and Neo Desk have the ability to change the background, I thought the only program wich did this was Easel ST. Im sorry but I don't think a program to simply change the background is worth $20. I am considerinq purchasing one of the replacement desktops, they have a greater value than a simple picture loader. Where did I infer that I was a pirate?! You infering that I am a pirate is both incorrect and insulting. Does using PD software make a person a pirate? >I realize that this is a free network, but why must we limit ourselves to >talking about PD or shareware software? Why don't we broaden our horizons >and consider commercial software as well? If Doug has asked "Does anyone >know of a program..." then I could promply recommend 4 different commercial >packages (Easel ST, Quick ST II, Neodesk 2, DC Desktop) that are capable of >installing background pictures in either color or monochrome. I believe that >3 of those pacakges even have free demos that you can try out. But as it is, >Doug appears to be too cheap to want to consider these alternatives, and so Yes this is a free network, this network is suspose to also be free of advertising. Are you upset because I don't feel I need to run to the store and buy a copy of your Quick ST? Why haven't I considered commercial software? Very simple I wanted to accomplish a small task, have a different desktop background. I was very susprised not to have found any PD programs to accomplish. >he will have to settle with my two cents worth response to his question: > >Doug, I don't know of any PD or shareware programs that load desktop pictures >in color. I guess you're just SOL if you want to put a picture on your color >desktop. Too bad. Sounded like a neat idea. Maybe you should try writing such >a program, and then try selling it to your fellow netters. I'm sure you would >make a lot of money. > Well I'm going to try. I've looked at the source code from a PD monocrome desktop picture loader. I don't have my GEM docs here at college but when I go home for break you can bet I'm going to give it a try. If I do accomplish this project I will be more than happy to post the program to the binaries group. You're right I don't think many people out there are going to want to spend their money on a program to simply change the desktop background. >Thank you Doug, for letting all the ST developers out there know that you >(and many like you I'm sure) are too cheap to consider spending $20 to $50 >on a piece of software. Hell, why should you be forced to pay money for a >program that someone else spent time developing. All software should be free >right? And distributed freely on all BBSs and networks so that you don't have >to even spend money on long distance phone bills or GEnie charges. Here's a >novel idea: all ST developers should mail out free copies of their software >to all ST users everywhere! The users wouldn't even have to return the disks. Darek very mature, calling names. Not only did you insult me but you insulted everone on the net. I wonder what the majority of the readers of this newsgroup think of you now. By the way If I think a program is worth the money I will buy it; a $20 picture loader isn't. I have quite a collecion of ST programs which I BOUGHT. I have supported and I will continue to support quality ST developers. > >It sure makes me all warm and mushy inside knowing that there is a future in >commercial software development on the ST. >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Darek Mihocka All views expressed are my own. > Branch Always Software, 14150 NE 20th St. Suite 302, Bellevue, WA 98007 >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just so you know I think it is stupid to waste the resources of this net on bickering. Before I posted this to the news group I tried to mail you my responce but it bounced. If you want to continue to call names and throw insults do it by mail. Doug Mail to -----> stevendd@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Christopher M Mauritz) (10/03/90)
In article <57880@microsoft.UUCP> darekm@microsoft.UUCP (Darek MIHOCKA) writes: >In some brainless article stevendd@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Doug) writes: >> >>Does anyone know of a PD or shareware program to load in a picture [etc. etc.] > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >A day doesn't go by that someone doesn't ask a question similar to this. >e.g. "does anyone know of a PD desktop publishing program as good as Calamus?" [scathing flame deleted] I think it was Dave Haynie who said it best not too long ago: "Why buy a car if you can't afford the gas?" Cheers, Chris ------------------------------+--------------------------- Chris Mauritz |D{r det finns en |l, finns cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu |det en plan! (c)All rights reserved. | Send flames to /dev/null | ------------------------------+---------------------------
jfbruno@rodan.acs.syr.edu (John Bruno) (10/03/90)
In article <57880@microsoft.UUCP> darekm@microsoft.UUCP (Darek MIHOCKA) writes: >In some brainless article stevendd@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Doug) writes: >> >>Does anyone know of a PD or shareware program to load in a picture [etc.etc.] > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >A day doesn't go by that someone doesn't ask a question similar to this. >e.g. "does anyone know of a PD desktop publishing program as good as Calamus?" Gee, I've never seen anyone ask this type of question, all the guy wants to do is load a picture. >Oh, of course, shareware programs are also ok, since you don't really have >to pay for them when you get them. If you can pirate something, that's ok too. Oh, I see. Someone asks if some public domain utility exists, and that means he's a pirate! Makes sense. >I realize that this is a free network, but why must we limit ourselves to >talking about PD or shareware software? Why don't we broaden our horizons >and consider commercial software as well? Where the hell have YOU been? We DO talk about commercial software here. >If Doug has asked "Does anyone >know of a program..." then I could promply recommend 4 different commercial >packages (Easel ST, Quick ST II, Neodesk 2, DC Desktop) that are capable of >installing background pictures in either color or monochrome. I believe that >3 of those pacakges even have free demos that you can try out. But as it is, >Doug appears to be too cheap to want to consider these alternatives, and so >he will have to settle with my two cents worth response to his question: Lighten up, guy. Why pay for a swiss army knife when all you need is a corkscrew, and you can get one for free. I don't suppose that you have any (gasp) Public Domain software, do you? If you do, does that mean you're "too cheap to want to consider these alternatives"? >Doug, I don't know of any PD or shareware programs that load desktop pictures >in color. I guess you're just SOL if you want to put a picture on your color >desktop. Too bad. Sounded like a neat idea. Gee, you didn't even have an answer, just a flame. Go have a few beers and lighten up a bit, ok? ---jb > Maybe you should try writing such >a program, and then try selling it to your fellow netters. I'm sure you would >make a lot of money. > >["I'm a software developer and I'm not rich because YOU ARE CHEAP" jibberish >deleted] > >- Darek > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Darek Mihocka All views expressed are my own. > Branch Always Software, 14150 NE 20th St. Suite 302, Bellevue, WA 98007 >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---jb
depeche@quiche.cs.mcgill.ca (Sam Alan EZUST) (10/06/90)
In article <57880@microsoft.UUCP> darekm@microsoft.UUCP (Darek MIHOCKA) writes: >In some brainless article stevendd@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Doug) writes: >> >>Does anyone know of a PD or shareware program to load in a picture [etc. etc.] > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >A day doesn't go by that someone doesn't ask a question similar to this. >e.g. "does anyone know of a PD desktop publishing program as good as Calamus?" >Oh, of course, shareware programs are also ok, since you don't really have >to pay for them when you get them. If you can pirate something, that's ok too. > >Doug, I don't know of any PD or shareware programs that load desktop pictures >in color. I guess you're just SOL if you want to put a picture on your color >desktop. Too bad. Sounded like a neat idea. Maybe you should try writing such >a program, and then try selling it to your fellow netters. I'm sure you would >make a lot of money. Darek - don't you remember back in the days when YOUR quick-st was in the shareware? Ah, those were the good ol' days, but I sent my money in anyway, if you recall. Please don't make too much of a jerk of yourself, or I will feel quite embarassed for recommending (and purchasing) your software in the first place. This particular flame is quite misdirected... The guy asked for information about how to get ahold of a program which probably is quite simple to write, and probably does exist in the PD or shareware. Personally I am a little more ticked that everyone is asking Dave Beckemeyer to give away his software for FREE... >Thank you Doug, for letting all the ST developers out there know that you >(and many like you I'm sure) are too cheap to consider spending $20 to $50 >on a piece of software. ugh! now why would anyone pay $20 for a piece of software which ONLY puts a picture on the desktop? Yes, the other prorgams you mentioned are well worth the money, but they do other things too, RIGHT?? > >It sure makes me all warm and mushy inside knowing that there is a future in >commercial software development on the ST. > give me a break... you at microsoft have been putting your lovely software company on the back-burner so you could earn some real money in - the IBM world?? sorry to hear that your quick-st isn't doing to well. Heck, though - I can only buy your software once, and none of the newer versions offer anything significantly worth the upgrade fee. And I will be impressed when you finally deliver that newsletter you keep talking about.... lighten up, ok? -- |S. Alan Ezust | depeche@quiche.cs.mcgill.ca| |McGill University School of Computer Science | Montreal, Quebec, Canada | |---------------------------------------------------------------------------|