mg20+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Paul Greelish) (12/01/90)
Hey wait a minute! Here we go again with someone trying to tell other net posters what they can and cannot discuss on an open bboard... I mean, come on, lighten up. There *ARE* some things that have no business being mentioned on this bboard, but other computers (vis-a-vis Ataris) should be a "sanctioned" topic. After all, comparisons between computer systems are quite relevant. A feature that proves to be highly successful on one may very well show up on others. For my $0.02, here's my opinions on a few non-Atari systems: Amigas: cool, but pricey, and they could "disappear" like Ataris these days... Macs: cool, although still pricey even after reductions. However, I *KNOW* Apple will be around for quite a while... I want my customer support! NExts: veddy veddy cool, veddy pricey, and totally nonstandard. An experiment. IBMs: clunky and not very user-friendly. However, they *ARE* expandable. Timex-Sinclair 1000s: make good doorstops ...etc. *AND THESE ARE RELEVANT, FOLKS* (Well, sorta.) If Atari *FINALLY* comes out with the TT (I have yet to see one for sale), and it costs <$2000 (actually, I'd like even less, but...) and if it's accepted, and if Atari gets its marketing/support act together, then all I will talk about is Ataris. Their recent marketing waffles leave me wanting, however. ______________________________________________________________ |\ /| | \/ | ike Greelish Carnegie Mellon U. undergrad quote: "The truth hits everybody" ---The Police, 1978 stupid disclaimer: My opinions are dictated to me by a 23 year old telepathic Chilean aardvark living in my closet.
gl8f@astsun.astro.Virginia.EDU (Greg Lindahl) (12/02/90)
In article <obJkBny00Uh7E4o1Qt@andrew.cmu.edu> mg20+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Paul Greelish) writes: >Hey wait a minute! Here we go again with someone trying to tell other >net posters what they can and cannot discuss on an open bboard... I >mean, come on, lighten up. I'm not telling you what to do. I'm just saying that I've seen lots of flamewars in the past, and I haven't seen much of anything productive out of them. Stick around for a few years and see if you agree with me. Or go take a look in the Amiga and NeXT groups if you'd like to see a real live flamewar in action. When 80% of the postings are about something most people aren't interested in, the group dies for a while. If I want to learn about other machines, I read their group or I go see one in person.
Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com (12/03/90)
Michel Paul Greelish mentions: >If Atari *FINALLY* comes out with the TT (I have yet to see one for >sale), and it costs <$2000 (actually, I'd like even less, but...) ... After promises from Atari of the TT being available for sale to coincide with COMDEX, the new word is "after the first of the year"... Is this Deja Vu, or is there an echo in here..? BobR
ekrimen@ecst.csuchico.edu (Ed Krimen) (12/03/90)
Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes: - After promises from Atari of the TT being available for sale to - coincide with COMDEX, the new word is "after the first of the - year"... - - Is this Deja Vu, or is there an echo in here..? And the reason is FCC approval. :^D Talk about deja vu. From what I understand, they can't even get Class B. -- Ed Krimen ............................................... ||| Video Production Major, California State University, Chico ||| INTERNET: ekrimen@ecst.csuchico.edu FREENET: al661 / | \ SysOp, Fuji BBS: 916-894-1261 FIDONET: 1:119/4.0
cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Christopher M Mauritz) (12/03/90)
In article <1990Dec02.215601.7327@ecst.csuchico.edu> ekrimen@ecst.csuchico.edu (Ed Krimen) writes: >Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes: > >- After promises from Atari of the TT being available for sale to >- coincide with COMDEX, the new word is "after the first of the >- year"... >- >- Is this Deja Vu, or is there an echo in here..? > >And the reason is FCC approval. :^D Talk about deja vu. From what I >understand, they can't even get Class B. This is a load of crap. Atari is always screaming about the FCC this, the FCC that....FCC guidelines are published and most other manufacturers seem to met them in a reasonable fashion. Perhaps, people should start pointing the finger at the "engineers" who design Atari's products. This is what happens when you try to cut corners and then try to retro-fit the sheilding problem later on when you get busted. Regards, Chris ------------------------------+--------------------------- Chris Mauritz |D{r det finns en |l, finns cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu |det en plan! (c)All rights reserved. | Send flames to /dev/null | ------------------------------+---------------------------
stephen@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Steve Whitney) (12/04/90)
In article <1990Dec3.153120.27313@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Christopher M Mauritz) writes: >In article <1990Dec02.215601.7327@ecst.csuchico.edu> ekrimen@ecst.csuchico.edu (Ed Krimen) writes: ... >>And the reason is FCC approval. :^D Talk about deja vu. From what I >>understand, they can't even get Class B. > >This is a load of crap. Atari is always screaming about the FCC this, >the FCC that....FCC guidelines are published and most other manufacturers >seem to met them in a reasonable fashion. Perhaps, people should start >pointing the finger at the "engineers" who design Atari's products. >This is what happens when you try to cut corners and then try to >retro-fit the sheilding problem later on when you get busted. > >Regards, > >Chris That's not entirely true. This past summer, I worked for CalComp, and one of my responsibilities was some EMI testing. The VDE (German equivalent of the FCC) and the FCC have very similar requirements for radio frequency emissions testing (the levels are different, but so are the distances from which they are measured). The big difference is that the VDE is self- ceritfying, that is, if a VDE certified testing lab says you pass the limits with a certain margin, you can get automatic approval. The FCC, on the other hand, still requires that you submit results from a certified lab, but then they make you fill out some paperwork which takes approximately 3 months to process. You don't know if they will decide to check your results until they process the paper. Then it can take an indefinite period of time for them complete their own testing before giving you FCC certification. It is entirely possible that Atari didn't do anything at all wrong (or even questionable) this time, but given their track record, the FCC decided they'd be a good company to spot check. It might also be that the lab they used is being spot-checked. I believe that Atari met the FCC guidelines for the TT and was just waiting for the paperwork which _should_ have come back before Comdex. This is just a guess, though. Undoubtedly, the TT is shipping in Germany and the rest of Europe because it has VDE approval. Let's give Atari the benefit of the doubt on this one. --Steve -- Steve Whitney "It's never _really_ the last minute" (())_-_(()) UCLA Comp. Sci. Grad. Student | (* *) | Internet: stephen@cs.ucla.edu UCLA Bruin--> { \_@_/ } GEnie: S.WHITNEY (To Cal: We still have the axe!) `-----'
cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Christopher M Mauritz) (12/04/90)
In article <1990Dec3.173941.29280@cs.ucla.edu> stephen@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Steve Whitney) writes: >In article <1990Dec3.153120.27313@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Christopher M Mauritz) writes: >>In article <1990Dec02.215601.7327@ecst.csuchico.edu> ekrimen@ecst.csuchico.edu (Ed Krimen) writes: >... >>>And the reason is FCC approval. :^D Talk about deja vu. From what I >>>understand, they can't even get Class B. >> >>This is a load of crap. Atari is always screaming about the FCC this, >>the FCC that....FCC guidelines are published and most other manufacturers >>seem to met them in a reasonable fashion. Perhaps, people should start >>pointing the finger at the "engineers" who design Atari's products. >>This is what happens when you try to cut corners and then try to >>retro-fit the sheilding problem later on when you get busted. >> >>Regards, >> >>Chris > >That's not entirely true. I didn't mean my point of view to be considered "entirely true." I am just pointing out that Atari has pulled the FCC-is-holding-us-up stunt so many times in the past that maybe (just maybe) the fault lies at Atari. How many times can you tell your teacher that your dog ate your homework without finally taking the blame for not doing it? :-) Besides, even the stuff that did pass must've been marginal. My old 1040ST used to create snow on any TV I was watching in the same room. Of course, matters didn't get much better when I removed the RF shielding to make room for my RAM expansion board. :-) >This past summer, I worked for CalComp, and one >of my responsibilities was some EMI testing. The VDE (German equivalent of >the FCC) and the FCC have very similar requirements for radio frequency >emissions testing (the levels are different, but so are the distances from >which they are measured). The big difference is that the VDE is self- >ceritfying, that is, if a VDE certified testing lab says you pass the limits >with a certain margin, you can get automatic approval. The FCC, on the other >hand, still requires that you submit results from a certified lab, but then >they make you fill out some paperwork which takes approximately 3 months to >process. You don't know if they will decide to check your results until they >process the paper. Then it can take an indefinite period of time for them >complete their own testing before giving you FCC certification. It is entirely >possible that Atari didn't do anything at all wrong (or even questionable) this >time, but given their track record, the FCC decided they'd be a good company >to spot check. It might also be that the lab they used is being spot-checked. Hmmm, I was under the impression that German RF/EMI leakage standards were tougher than those set by the FCC. That is what always boggled me about Atari's griping about the FCC. You'd figure that a company who gears its products for the German/European market would use their stricter standards when designing their products. >I believe that Atari met the FCC guidelines for the TT and was just waiting >for the paperwork which _should_ have come back before Comdex. This is just a >guess, though. Undoubtedly, the TT is shipping in Germany and the rest of >Europe because it has VDE approval. Let's give Atari the benefit of the doubt >on this one. Gee, seems like there are those that always want to give them another inch of rope. :-) > > --Steve Cheers, chris ------------------------------+--------------------------- Chris Mauritz |D{r det finns en |l, finns cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu |det en plan! (c)All rights reserved. | Send flames to /dev/null | ------------------------------+---------------------------
ekrimen@ecst.csuchico.edu (Ed Krimen) (12/04/90)
First, stephen@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Steve Whitney) writes: >I believe that Atari met the FCC guidelines for the TT and was just waiting >for the paperwork which _should_ have come back before Comdex. This is just a >guess, though. Undoubtedly, the TT is shipping in Germany and the rest of >Europe because it has VDE approval. Let's give Atari the benefit of the doubt >on this one. Then cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Christopher M Mauritz) writes: - Gee, seems like there are those that always want to give them another - inch of rope. :-) Hmmm, I thought we cut yours off a while ago. ;^D -- Ed Krimen ............................................... ||| Video Production Major, California State University, Chico ||| INTERNET: ekrimen@ecst.csuchico.edu FREENET: al661 / | \ SysOp, Fuji BBS: 916-894-1261 FIDONET: 1:119/4.0
saj@chinet.chi.il.us (Stephen Jacobs) (12/05/90)
On Fidonet, the first commandment is "Thou shalt not be excessively
annoying." I'd like to suggest using the same standard here on usenet.
Chris Mauritz only seems to post stuff saying "Atari is lousy.
I told you years ago that Atari is lousy. Anyone who disagrees is silly".
(He used to claim to be a financial expert until he publicly failed to notice
that Jack Tramiel should be considered an Atari 'insider'). I say enough is
enough. He's getting not just annoying, but excessively annoying. As of the
next dumb, provocative, insulting message I'm mailing to postmasters
between him and me asking them to cut him off. I suggest other people might
consider doing the same. Note that he's the only person posting to this
group that I'd say that about.
Steve J.hardware@rose.uwaterloo.ca () (12/05/90)
I decided to buy an Amiga and upgrade my ST to the STE! This way I get the best of both worlds! But what really dissapoints me is when TAF decide it wont host an annual Computer Show! Now whats even more discouraging is when Atari Canada cant even put on a show like the WOC show this past weekend I cant believe Atari isnt supporting one show in CANADA for the year! I cant believe Commodore is outdoing atari when I know the ST is a better computer Its time we call a few numbers and let ATARI hear their one liners have to turn into action or I for one can convert 250megs of ST files into Amiga files real fast Hardware Dave one of the Die hard Atarians s