iam@stbimbo.UUCP (Ian Mercado) (11/26/90)
Well, the only ST software dealer in town just shut his doors for good. Doesn't matter...I haven't seen a new title worth getting there in months now. Is it time to get an IBM PC clone? Or is there hope for some sort of re-birth of the ST software scenario? Bummed, -- -------- ---- ---- -- | Ian Mercado: iam@salestech.com | -- - - ----- -- | gatech!stiatl!iam | -- -------- -- ----- | | -------- -- -- -- ---- | "Can't keep my mind from the circling sky" |
mg20+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Paul Greelish) (11/30/90)
The ST is dying. If you want virtually anything for it, you'll have to mail order it. Living in a big city does help, however. J&R Music World in New York (I live in NJ, when I'm not in college in Pittsburgh) is one of the few major stores I've seen that still support the ST... although even their support is dying, the software section is 1/3 the size it was 3 years ago and the hardware section has all but disappeared. Get a Mac, not an IBM. IBMs are for corporate fascists, and besides, Macs are better (ease of use, etc.) Apple isn't about to fade into the woodwork like Atari periodically does. If you can't afford a Mac (get at least a IIsi, not a Classic (yuk, same slow processor as an ST, and 9" mono "graphics")) then get a Spectre GCR (wait for Version 3.0.) I dunno, Atari's new models aren't too impressive to me, price/performance wise... they may buy the farm for good this time. I'm getting a Mac IIsi if my parents can/will help me afford it (although it's pretty cheap here with student discounts, $3000 is still a lot of money) or a Spectre GCR if that's all I can afford. ______________________________________________________________ |\ /| | \/ | ike Greelish Carnegie-Mellon U. undergrad quote: "When you're bored, everything is your business." --Me stupid disclaimer: My opinions are dictated to me by a 23 year old telepathic Chilean aardvark living in my closet.
charlie@wam.umd.edu (Charles William Fletcher) (11/30/90)
In article <obJIrRW00WAx8B1lRW@andrew.cmu.edu> mg20+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Paul Greelish) writes: >The ST is dying. If you want virtually anything for it, you'll have to >mail order it. Living in a big city does help, however. J&R Music World >in New York (I live in NJ, when I'm not in college in Pittsburgh) is one >of the few major stores I've seen that still support the ST... although >even their support is dying, the software section is 1/3 the size it was >3 years ago and the hardware section has all but disappeared. > >Get a Mac, not an IBM. IBMs are for corporate fascists, and besides, >Macs are better (ease of use, etc.) Apple isn't about to fade into the >woodwork like Atari periodically does. If you can't afford a Mac (get at >least a IIsi, not a Classic (yuk, same slow processor as an ST, and 9" >mono "graphics")) then get a Spectre GCR (wait for Version 3.0.) <stuff deleted> Unfortunately I have to agree--CalCom, the biggest Atari dealer here in the DC area, has closed and gone to mail-order. There are now 3 Atari dealers in the area, and one of those is mostly emulation stuff. I blame Atari management, but I won't go on with all that. But, if you have an educational discount, check out the NeXTStation- it is the natural step from an ST. -Charlie
ekrimen@ecst.csuchico.edu (Ed Krimen) (11/30/90)
mg20+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Paul Greelish) writes: - The ST is dying. If you want virtually anything for it, you'll have - to mail order it. Living in a big city does help, however. J&R Music - World in New York (I live in NJ, when I'm not in college in - Pittsburgh) is one of the few major stores I've seen that still - support the ST... although even their support is dying, the software - section is 1/3 the size it was 3 years ago and the hardware section - has all but disappeared. I don't understand this. Do people actually waste time looking for places that *don't* support the ST as opposed to places that do? Why waste your time with J&R Music World? Yes, I know what it's like not to have a local dealer for 9 months out of the year. Pick a dealer that is as local as possible, that gives a reasonable amount of support, and that looks like he's going to be around for a while and help and support him. Bitching about J&R isn't going to do anything 'cause they have other things on their minds besides the ST; they have other merchandise to support them and the ST isn't their main concern. (WARNING. Tearful success story follows. ;^) I bought an Omniswitch in San Francisco before I returned to school (3 hours away) only to find out that it may be damaged. I called the dealer and told him about it. He's sending me another one. When I receive it, I will send the bad one back. Find a dealer that does stuff like this and support him. Buy stuff from him. If you like his service, tell other ST users about it. -- Ed Krimen ............................................... ||| Video Production Major, California State University, Chico ||| INTERNET: ekrimen@ecst.csuchico.edu FREENET: al661 / | \ SysOp, Fuji BBS: 916-894-1261 FIDONET: 1:119/4.0
cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Christopher M Mauritz) (11/30/90)
{stuff deleted}
Sure, everyone was calling me crazy, using insulting language and
trying to pass me off as someone with an ax to grind. I return
today to the group and I scroll by 5-10 messages of the same. I
guess it is finally starting to sink in, eh?
Ian,
Buy a Mac. :-) You can come up to NYC at Computer Era and we can
hang out for those brewskies. :-)
Cheers,
Chris
------------------------------+---------------------------
Chris Mauritz |D{r det finns en |l, finns
cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu |det en plan!
(c)All rights reserved. |
Send flames to /dev/null |
------------------------------+---------------------------dkoski@hercules.as.arizona.edu (David Koski) (11/30/90)
In article <obJIrRW00WAx8B1lRW@andrew.cmu.edu> mg20+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Paul Greelish) writes: >The ST is dying. If you want virtually anything for it, you'll have to >mail order it. Living in a big city does help, however. J&R Music World no, I don't think it ever really had life, kinda like a zombie. >Get a Mac, not an IBM. IBMs are for corporate fascists, and besides, >Macs are better (ease of use, etc.) Apple isn't about to fade into the How about a NeXTstation? >I dunno, Atari's new models aren't too impressive to me, >price/performance wise... they may buy the farm for good this time. > >I'm getting a Mac IIsi if my parents can/will help me afford it >(although it's pretty cheap here with student discounts, $3000 is still >a lot of money) or a Spectre GCR if that's all I can afford. Well a NeXTstation is about $3000 with a student discount... Is any one else that currently has an ST thinking about a next? I am and I hope others are too. BTW I saw a nextstation here at the campus bookstore and it was awsome! Speed that was unbelievable, a real OS, and nice looking windows etc. (unlike some other machines that we all know) > >|\ /| >| \/ | ike Greelish >Carnegie-Mellon U. undergrad >quote: "When you're bored, everything is your business." --Me >stupid disclaimer: My opinions are dictated to me by a 23 year old >telepathic Chilean aardvark living in my closet. David Koski
Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com (11/30/90)
Golly........! Where are all the Atari Cheerleaders....???? Where are all the diehard Atari Apologists....???? Where are all the Atari Ostriches who still believe that if we "wait until COMDEX" everthing will be just fine...???? Why don't you jump all over the folks who have been expressing concerns over "real life" experiences with trying to deal with Atari Corp's non-interest in our marketplace...???? I dunno... seems like the "faithful" are slipping... BobR
ramsiri@blake.u.washington.edu (Enartloc Nhoj) (11/30/90)
In article <568@organpipe.UUCP> dkoski@hercules.as.arizona.edu (David Koski) writes: >In article <obJIrRW00WAx8B1lRW@andrew.cmu.edu> mg20+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Paul Greelish) writes: >>The ST is dying. If you want virtually anything for it, you'll have to >>mail order it. Living in a big city does help, however. J&R Music World > >no, I don't think it ever really had life, kinda like a zombie. > >How about a NeXTstation? > [ stuff deleted ] >Well a NeXTstation is about $3000 with a student discount... compare that with the "unannounced" price of the TT package[less]. >>Is any one else that currently has an ST thinking about a next? I am and I hope others are too. >BTW I saw a nextstation here at the campus bookstore and it was awsome! >Speed that was unbelievable, a real OS, and nice looking windows etc. (unlike >some other machines that we all know) > >> >>|\ /| >>| \/ | ike Greelish > >David Koski I am certainly thinking of getting a NeXT. It wouldn't make much sense to spend an equivalent amount of money on a system that doesn't have an operating system... or a useful one, i should say. What's a computer without an OS? It's not much different than a car without an engine. There are several software packages on other platforms that i was hoping would get ported to the ST. Virtually every developer of these particular packages that i have spoken with tells me they don't want to have to "deal with TOS"... -kevin
cummins@d.cs.okstate.edu (John Cummins) (11/30/90)
In article <36363@cup.portal.com> Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes: >Where are all the diehard Atari Apologists....???? > >Why don't you jump all over the folks who have been expressing concerns over >"real life" experiences with trying to deal with Atari Corp's non-interest >in our marketplace...???? > >I dunno... seems like the "faithful" are slipping... > >BobR Bob, I must have missed something. My atari works, doesn't yours? Why do you suppose people should go nuts over a company that doesn't seem to give a hoot about the US market? Because some of us actually like our STs, prehaps? <flames deleted before posting> cummins@d.cs.okstate.edu
chuck@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (charles bridgeland) (11/30/90)
Well a NeXTstation is about $3000 with a student discount...
Is any one else that currently has an ST thinking about a next? I am and
I hope others are too.
BTW I saw a nextstation here at the campus bookstore and it was awsome!
Speed that was unbelievable, a real OS, and nice looking windows etc. (unlike
some other machines that we all know)
--------------------------------------------------------
have you actually tried to use one. My net conenction is through
a more-or-less public access Next. Every once in a while I go in and do
my stuff at the console (better than 1200 baud from home). The raw unix
window is just fine, but doing anything with the GUI is s---l---o---w.
fer example, it can take up to 1.5 minutes to get back to you, post
login/password.
try before you buy.
chuck@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
chuck bridgeland---anarchoRepublican
--don't forget, we surround _them_, not the other way around"
chuck@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu hire me so I can quit this pit.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------gl8f@astsun7.astro.Virginia.EDU (Greg Lindahl) (12/01/90)
In article <1990Nov30.153926.24198@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> chuck@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (charles bridgeland) writes: >BTW I saw a nextstation here at the campus bookstore and it was awsome! That's great. But this is comp.sys.atari.st. There's already an Amiga/NeXT flamewar going on. If this keeps up we'll also have an ST/NeXT flamewar going on. Nobody learns anything from a flamewar. So, to stop this in its tracks: If anyone sees a message about NeXTs that they think ought to go on comp.sys.next instead of comp.sys.atari.st, please join me in dropping the poster a polite email message.
dejesus@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu (Francisco X DeJesus) (12/01/90)
In article <568@organpipe.UUCP> dkoski@hercules.as.arizona.edu (David Koski) writes: >In article <obJIrRW00WAx8B1lRW@andrew.cmu.edu> mg20+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Paul Greelish) writes: >>Get a Mac, not an IBM. IBMs are for corporate fascists, and besides, >>Macs are better (ease of use, etc.) Apple isn't about to fade into the > >How about a NeXTstation? >> >>I'm getting a Mac IIsi if my parents can/will help me afford it >>(although it's pretty cheap here with student discounts, $3000 is still >>a lot of money) or a Spectre GCR if that's all I can afford. > >Well a NeXTstation is about $3000 with a student discount... >Is any one else that currently has an ST thinking about a next? I am and >I hope others are too. Here, here! I've been looking at getting a new computer next fall, and my #1 choice would definately be a NeXTstation! Nowadays, as a Computer Engineering junior, I see that more and more I _NEED_ a powerful Unix machine, and the NeXTstation is simply PERFECT. I have the same feelings for the new NeXT machines as I did back when I had an Atari 800 and I first heard the name 'ST'. I definately want to buy one before I graduate though, because of the _HUGE_ student discounts available... Don't get me wrong: I absolutely love my Mega... but I just hope that by ___ / _______________________________ - Francisco X DeJesus |- / \/ \\ ' / /\ dejesus@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu \\__________________________ / ak662@cleveland.freenet.edu ////////////////////////////
dejesus@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu (Francisco X DeJesus) (12/01/90)
In article <1990Nov30.153926.24198@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> chuck@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (charles bridgeland) writes: > have you actually tried to use one. My net conenction is through >a more-or-less public access Next. Every once in a while I go in and do >my stuff at the console (better than 1200 baud from home). The raw unix >window is just fine, but doing anything with the GUI is s---l---o---w. >fer example, it can take up to 1.5 minutes to get back to you, post >login/password. > try before you buy. Are you talking about a NeXTstation or about an old NeXT cube? Comparing the NeXT cube vs the NeXTstation is like comparing Apple's Lisa vs the first Macintosh... one was very 'experimental', and the other is more 'streamlined'. And both sets were done by Steve Jobs (he's definately got a talent for going back to get things right!). BTW, it's very different using a Unix computer that is overtasked with lots of other people using it and using one all by yourself... ___ / _______________________________ - Francisco X DeJesus |- / \/ \\ ' / /\ dejesus@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu \\__________________________ / ak662@cleveland.freenet.edu ////////////////////////////
seitz@netcom.UUCP (Matthew Seitz) (12/01/90)
True, support for the ST seems to be weakening. I've often thought about buying another comptuter. But after I think it through, I never do. Recently, Bill Gates, in defending the PC versus NeXT and Mac, said "What is there that you can do on those machines that can't be done on the PC." I think the same (almost) applies to the ST. I can't think of anything that can be done on the PC, or Mac that you can't do on the ST. In my case, my major uses of my ST are 1) terminal emulation, 2) word processing, 3) hobbyist programming, mostly in C and Pascal. I have yet to be convinced that a Mac or PC can do these so much better than the ST as to make it worth the hassle and expense of selling my ST, and buying, installing, and learning new software. Nor have I seen any thing new that the PC or Mac can do that would make it worthwhile. If I were buying a new computer, it probably would not be an ST. But since I own one now, I think my time and effort are best spent supporting and enhancing it, rather than buy something new. Matt Seitz netcom!seitz seitz@netcom.UUCP -- Matthew Seitz seitz@netcom.UUCP netcom!seitz
hyc@math.lsa.umich.edu (Howard Chu) (12/01/90)
In article <5216@rex.cs.tulane.edu> dejesus@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu (Francisco X DeJesus) writes: >Macintosh... one was very 'experimental', and the other is more 'streamlined'. >And both sets were done by Steve Jobs (he's definately got a talent for going >back to get things right!). Heh - what he's *definitely* got a talent for is getting things *wrong*, the first N tries... > BTW, it's very different using a Unix computer that is overtasked with >lots of other people using it and using one all by yourself... Yes, but none of this is relevant to a discussion about a computer that is overtasked just with its own windowing system... It would be kind of nice if these folks would use Better Software as the solution to their performance problems, instead of always relying on Faster Hardware. (Obviously the ideal situation is to have optimal software running on the fastest hardware, but you ain't gonna get that from NeXT...) -- -- Howard Chu @ University of Michigan Flame all you want - we'll take more.
saj@chinet.chi.il.us (Stephen Jacobs) (12/01/90)
In article <36363@cup.portal.com> Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes: >Golly........! > >Where are all the Atari Cheerleaders....???? > >Where are all the diehard Atari Apologists....???? > >Where are all the Atari Ostriches who still believe that if we "wait until >COMDEX" everthing will be just fine...???? > etc. You rang? Maybe it's because the Mega E is so nearly the machine I thought Atari should have introduced as a cash cow about 10 months ago, to me it looks good. An ST (well, an STE, but who's paying attention to that) running at 16 MHz all the way through on a 68000. Low risk engineering with performance that matches (or slightly beats) the 16-20 MHz 386SX clones that are now 'utility' PCs. It'll be nice if someone puts something useful on VME boards at a hobbyist price, but I can live without it. The new GDOS could be a big improvement if it sees the light of day; seems I've read the same thing about imaging models for PCs and MACs in the last year (True Type, anyone?). The Atari Advantage program, which looked like a neat way to make bitter enemies (start people out on low-end non-upgradable machines while your main product line is a lot better than that) seems to have died. Meanwhile, Atari still has a better manufacturer repair program than IBM or Apple (what, you want me to compare them with Dell?), and they're trying to help developers where they can. Seems to me that a year ago there were no STs to be had in the US, and there was a great deal of doubt that TOS could handle large amounts of hard disk. Stacy was a nasty joke. The TT wasn't even a well-defined rumor. The STE wasn't even a rumor. So how's Atari doing compared to that? What is catastrophic is the situation of Atari dealers. There's no prospect that the people who went out of business getting tortured a little more every week are ever going to be made whole. But that isn't the whole story of Atari STs. The stuff above is part of the story too. Steve J.
ramsiri@blake.u.washington.edu (Enartloc Nhoj) (12/02/90)
In article <1990Dec01.071140.10836@chinet.chi.il.us> saj@chinet.chi.il.us (Stephen Jacobs) writes: >In article <36363@cup.portal.com> Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes: >>Golly........! >> >What is catastrophic is the situation of Atari dealers. There's no prospect >week are ever going to be made whole. But that isn't the whole story of >Atari STs. The stuff above is part of the story too. > > Steve J. Both of my once exclusive ATARI dealers are now selling Amigas and clones... "we have been forced to..." as they say. Both dealers complain heavily about ATARI as a company... doesn't make the consumer too excited about buying into it. Also, they say they are having a hard time justifying why people should buy an ATARI over a mac, or a clone given the prices these days. I always remind myself, with all my "gripin' " , that my ST can still do what it always has done. TEMPUS is still great. -kevin
ekrimen@ecst.csuchico.edu (Ed Krimen) (12/02/90)
thaanuj@prism.CS.ORST.EDU (John Thaanum) writes: - For one thing, everybody complains that support from atari is - terrible and dealers can't seem to get anywhere with atari. Perhaps - these "dealers" are the kinds that have one or two ataris in the far - corner. IB Computers is atari only, they do big volume, and atari - seems to grant them their every wish. If these other struggling - dealers would try to stock enough inventory to make it worth atari's - while to support them, the support would be there. - - All I know is that at this particular dealership (there is another - IB store in Portland, OR which I have never been to) I get great - service, lots of selection, and pleasant discussion about the world - of atari computers. This is the same in the San Francisco Bay Area. I hear good things from Houston. I also hear of great Atari support in South Carolina from Sheldon Winick's Computer Studio dealership. He has MS-DOSers come in his store wishing they had support in the area like the ST does. From what I understand, he has walls of software and all hardware on display. Some dealers, like the one I frequent in the Bay Area, won't display (but will order on request) Atari's 44meg removable which a lot of customers don't have the interest in or the cash for. A lot of the stuff I buy from SF is at or below mail order cost. This is because I support him. I give him copies of the latest European demos, share rumors with him, and buy stuff from him. There are at least 3 more dealers within an hour of him, not to mention a few MIDI stores which sell Atari products. If you support your dealer, he will support you. For some, this seems hard to believe, but it works with very little effort. -- Ed Krimen ............................................... ||| Video Production Major, California State University, Chico ||| INTERNET: ekrimen@ecst.csuchico.edu FREENET: al661 / | \ SysOp, Fuji BBS: 916-894-1261 FIDONET: 1:119/4.0
mboen@nixdorf.de (Martin Boening) (12/03/90)
In <36363@cup.portal.com> Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes: >Golly........! > >Where are all the Atari Cheerleaders....???? > >Where are all the diehard Atari Apologists....???? > >Where are all the Atari Ostriches who still believe that if we "wait until >COMDEX" everthing will be just fine...???? > >Why don't you jump all over the folks who have been expressing concerns over >"real life" experiences with trying to deal with Atari Corp's non-interest >in our marketplace...???? > >I dunno... seems like the "faithful" are slipping... > >BobR Seems to me, nobody gives a damn about this kind of discussions any more. They've happened too often to care about. They don't add anything new to anyone's base of knowledge, they're not thrilling, they just bore people to death. Probably most of the people posting in support of Atari in the last couple of flareups of this subject have kill files that work on article contents, so whenever some article predicts imminent death of Atari Corp, they don't even see it. You could try posting in Esperanto to get past these :-). The point is - nobody cares if Atari dies or is bought by Commodore or builds NeXTstations in agreement with Jobs or what. People here just have gotten tired of it. I have too, so this is it. Luckily I'm using the nn news reader so I can skip anything with suspicious Subject: lines. Bye bye, gripers. Martin Disclaimer: This opinion is mine. If anyone wants it, make me an offer. -- Email: in the USA -> mboening.pad@nixdorf.com outside USA -> mboening.pad@nixdorf.de Paper Mail: Martin Boening, Nixdorf Computer AG, SNI STO SI 355, Pontanusstr. 55, 4790 Paderborn, W.-Germany (Phone: +49 5251 146155)
pietrzak@fox.CES.CWRU.Edu (John Pietrzak) (12/03/90)
In article <1990Dec02.051813.2131@ecst.csuchico.edu> ekrimen@ecst.csuchico.edu (Ed Krimen) writes: >thaanuj@prism.CS.ORST.EDU (John Thaanum) writes: > >- All I know is that at this particular dealership (there is another >- IB store in Portland, OR which I have never been to) I get great >- service, lots of selection, and pleasant discussion about the world >- of atari computers. > >This is the same in the San Francisco Bay Area. I hear good things >from Houston. I also hear of great Atari support in South Carolina... Don't forget Ohio! Down in Dayton, I've got three good dealers nearby (including the famed MicrOtyme). JP
seitz@netcom.UUCP (Matthew Seitz) (12/03/90)
I retract my earilier statement that Atari ST is dying. What is dying is
1. Dealer support, and
2. Interest by the general computing public and major software publishers.
Outside of these two areas, there are lots of signs of strength:
1. There are plenty of ST periodicals. I just picked up a half dozen. Some
of these are available at general computer stores (not just Atari dealers).
2. New software and hardware products and updates to old products are still
being released. I've read reviews this week of 3 68030 upgrades.
3. Atari is still making and improving on the ST. The STe is shipping. The
Stacy is shipping. TOS 1.4 is shipping. The TT and Mega STe sound darn close
to shipping..e
4. There are plenty of mail order shops with lots of titles available.
No, the ST doesn't look like it's going to replace DOS or the Mac as the most
popular computers. It doesn't even look like were giving the Amiga much to
worry about. But why does that have to kill the Atari? Isn't there enough
room in the market for a fourth computer standard? Just because the ST is #4
doesn't make it dead. It just makes it #4.
Owning a popular computer makes your life easier. More software, more dealers.
But just becauase a computer isn't popular doesn't make it inferior. It just
means you have to work a little harder to find the parts you need. But if you
take that time, you may have a better computer than if you took the first IBM
clone that got stuck under you're nose.
Yes, I'd love for Atari the be the most popular computer. I'd like there to
be plenty of dealers, and Borland and Microsoft writing software for it. But
those aren't the critical issues. The critical issues for me are:
1. Is there another computer that can do what I'm doing with my ST for less
money?
2. Is there another computer that can do what I'm doing sufficiently better
to justify paying more than I do for my Atari ST?
3. Is there another computer than can do something my Atari can't, and is worth
paying more than I do for my Atari ST?
I think the ST/TT family can survive as a #4 computer. I think there are
enough users and developers out there that I'll continue to find the software,
hardware, parts, and support that I want and need. It may not always be as
easy as with an IBM or Mac. But with a little work, I can have a better system
for less money than with either of the big two.
--
Matthew Seitz
seitz@netcom.UUCP
netcom!seitztowns@atari.UUCP (John Townsend) (12/04/90)
in article <mboen.660171396@peun33>, mboen@nixdorf.de (Martin Boening) says: > > In <36363@cup.portal.com> Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes: > >>Golly........! >> >>Where are all the Atari Cheerleaders....???? >> >>Where are all the diehard Atari Apologists....???? >> >>Where are all the Atari Ostriches who still believe that if we "wait until >>COMDEX" everthing will be just fine...???? >> >>Why don't you jump all over the folks who have been expressing concerns over >>"real life" experiences with trying to deal with Atari Corp's non-interest >>in our marketplace...???? >> >>I dunno... seems like the "faithful" are slipping... >> >>BobR > > Seems to me, nobody gives a damn about this kind of discussions any more. > They've happened too often to care about. They don't add anything new to > anyone's base of knowledge, they're not thrilling, they just bore people to > death. > > [....] > The point is - nobody cares if Atari dies or is bought by Commodore or > builds NeXTstations in agreement with Jobs or what. People here just have > gotten tired of it. I have too, so this is it. Luckily I'm using the nn > news reader so I can skip anything with suspicious Subject: lines. > Finally! Someone who sums up the entire situation. I remember when reading news was fun and most of all a learning experience. Seems like the quality of people and information here is slipping a great deal. Remember when you didn't need a news reader with a kill file? or nn to sort through the trash and the good stuff. <sigh> Maybe someday, comp.sys.atari.st will come back around to its intended purpose in life: to discuss the Atari ST computer. In the meantime, I guess we all have to use news readers like nn to get rid of the trash that Bob Rotelle (and others) write. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- John Townsend ames!atari!towns Atari Corporation "I know I need something.. I just don't know what it is!"
techno@lime.in-berlin.de (Frank G. Dahncke) (12/04/90)
seitz@netcom.UUCP (Matthew Seitz) writes: >I retract my earilier statement that Atari ST is dying. What is dying is >1. Dealer support, and >2. Interest by the general computing public and major software publishers. >Outside of these two areas, there are lots of signs of strength: >1. There are plenty of ST periodicals. I just picked up a half dozen. Some >of these are available at general computer stores (not just Atari dealers). >2. New software and hardware products and updates to old products are still >being released. I've read reviews this week of 3 68030 upgrades. >3. Atari is still making and improving on the ST. The STe is shipping. The >Stacy is shipping. TOS 1.4 is shipping. The TT and Mega STe sound darn close >to shipping..e >4. There are plenty of mail order shops with lots of titles available. >No, the ST doesn't look like it's going to replace DOS or the Mac as the most >popular computers. It doesn't even look like were giving the Amiga much to >worry about. But why does that have to kill the Atari? Isn't there enough >room in the market for a fourth computer standard? Just because the ST is #4 >doesn't make it dead. It just makes it #4. >Owning a popular computer makes your life easier. More software, more dealers. >But just becauase a computer isn't popular doesn't make it inferior. It just >means you have to work a little harder to find the parts you need. But if you >take that time, you may have a better computer than if you took the first IBM >clone that got stuck under you're nose. >Yes, I'd love for Atari the be the most popular computer. I'd like there to >be plenty of dealers, and Borland and Microsoft writing software for it. But >those aren't the critical issues. The critical issues for me are: >1. Is there another computer that can do what I'm doing with my ST for less > money? >2. Is there another computer that can do what I'm doing sufficiently better > to justify paying more than I do for my Atari ST? >3. Is there another computer than can do something my Atari can't, and is worth > paying more than I do for my Atari ST? >I think the ST/TT family can survive as a #4 computer. I think there are >enough users and developers out there that I'll continue to find the software, >hardware, parts, and support that I want and need. It may not always be as >easy as with an IBM or Mac. But with a little work, I can have a better system >for less money than with either of the big two. > I totally agree with Matthew on every point. All reades of this newsgroup should print out this article and pin it to their bedroom wall. If you don't agree with this, why are you reading this newsgroup for ? Matthew, this is my letter of the month. Techno -- | techno@zelator.in-berlin.de ||| Please do not e-mail from outside Germany ! | | techno@lime.in-berlin.de / | \ Hardcore ST user ! ====================== | | Nothing that's real is ever for free, you just have to pay for it sometime. | | (Al Stewart) |
roberson@aurs01.UUCP (Charles "Chip" Roberson) (12/04/90)
>In article <obJIrRW00WAx8B1lRW@andrew.cmu.edu> mg20+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Paul Greelish) writes: >The ST is dying. I have to agree. I had been planning on upgrading my ST to 4megs to run the GNU stuff, but I've decided to save the money for another machine. Personally, I'm partial to Sun and their prices are getting better all the time. I had wanted a NeXT I don't think it's going to make it either. With the new Sun SPARC 2 announced, the market for SPARC 1s will open up to us low-end types. I don't think I could ever buy an IBM drone. They have definitely overtaken the ST in raw computing power but I still don't think much of the architecture nor the OS and I don't like Intel chips. An apple is a possibility, but it too is limited and pricey as well. Power without the support isn't worth any price. -chip * Work: 2912 Wake Forest Road, Raleigh, NC 27609 (919) 850-5011 * (...!mcnc!aurgate!roberson) || (roberson%aurgate@mcnc.org) || * (71500.2056@CompuServe.com) || (Chip.Roberson@f112.n151.z1.fidonet.org) #include <disclaimer.h>
roberson@aurs01.UUCP (Charles "Chip" Roberson) (12/04/90)
In article <17809@netcom.UUCP> seitz@netcom.UUCP (Matthew Seitz) writes: >Recently, Bill Gates, in defending the PC versus NeXT and Mac, said "What is >there that you can do on those machines that can't be done on the PC." I think >the same (almost) applies to the ST. I can't think of anything that can be done >on the PC, or Mac that you can't do on the ST. This issue came up recently with AREN. We are trying to develop an information service for multiple simultaneous users. Currently the service is piecemeal with some on Unix boxes (not ours), some on a PC, some on CIS, and some on an ST. We are trying to decide how to integrate this into on managable entity. Once person really wants to develop the who thing in DOS. I had though briefly about some form of Atari, but quickly dropped the idea since I didn't think we could depend on Atari being there. The problem came down to this. On the PC we had to build all of our Communications, Tasking, and Terminal interfaces from the ground up. On a Unix box we could rely on the OS and its libraries to provide these facilities -- we only needed to worry about the application. PCs and STs don't make very good Unix hosts, though 386en are getting better. A machine built with multi-tasking in mind tends to be cleaner. For our needs a PC or ST just doesn't cut it. A Mac would only be used to layout our newsletter and brochures (but I wouldn't pay Apple for A/UX.) The TT provides Unix, but at what cost. We know that Sun is going to support us and there is a 3rd party verdorship out there. Can the Atari promise that? My ST is a fine smart terminal and a good typesetter with TeX (but it is slooowww). For want of a nail.... -chip * Work: 2912 Wake Forest Road, Raleigh, NC 27609 (919) 850-5011 * (...!mcnc!aurgate!roberson) || (roberson%aurgate@mcnc.org) || * (71500.2056@CompuServe.com) || (Chip.Roberson@f112.n151.z1.fidonet.org) #include <disclaimer.h>
cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Christopher M Mauritz) (12/04/90)
In article <2760@atari.UUCP> towns@atari.UUCP (John Townsend) writes: >in article <mboen.660171396@peun33>, mboen@nixdorf.de (Martin Boening) says: >> >> In <36363@cup.portal.com> Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes: >> >>>Golly........! >>> >>>Where are all the Atari Cheerleaders....???? Ooooh, I feel a tug on the line. Looks like we got one... I guess he has a reason since it is his job at stake... >> Seems to me, nobody gives a damn about this kind of discussions any more. >> They've happened too often to care about. They don't add anything new to >> anyone's base of knowledge, they're not thrilling, they just bore people to >> death. I dunno about that. Seems to me that it is a unique opportunity to let the various companies know how you feel about their products/strategy in a timely fashion. Hey, if they don't like what they're hearing, then maybe they should change their ways? >> gotten tired of it. I have too, so this is it. Luckily I'm using the nn >> news reader so I can skip anything with suspicious Subject: lines. Hey man, if you want to stick your head in the sand and ignore what is going on around you, that is fine. That is your right. But trying to intimidate others to do the same is wrong. If you'll notice, it is the supposed "cheerleaders" who usually use the foul language and insulting tone. >Finally! Someone who sums up the entire situation. I remember when reading >news was fun and most of all a learning experience. Seems like the quality >of people and information here is slipping a great deal. Yeah, it used to be fun when there was some sense of life in the Atari computing world. However, as the ST's fortunes have faltered, so has the interest in talking about them. If you'd like to increase the S/N, why not post some decent articles once in a while instead of whining about the people you don't agree with. As an example, I would point towards Dave Haynie at Commodore. Check out comp.sys.amiga sometime and get a load of the wealth of straightforward information he provides to users on a regular basis. Take a look at all the people who post from Commodore and Apple on their respective groups. Atari people have pretty much dropped out of sight, except for an occasional message here and there. >Remember when you didn't need a news reader with a kill file? or nn to >sort through the trash and the good stuff. <sigh> Well, if you choose to limit your scope by filtering people out, that is your business. I prefer to read all the articles so that I get a balanced point of view, rather than just the views of those I already know agree with me. >Maybe someday, comp.sys.atari.st will come back around to its intended >purpose in life: to discuss the Atari ST computer. In the meantime, I >guess we all have to use news readers like nn to get rid of the trash >that Bob Rotelle (and others) write. Maybe someday Atari Corp. will come back to life and there will be something interesting and exciting to talk about for a change. As for considering dissenting viewpoints trash, I would say that is a big part of the problem with yourself and Atari Corp. Maybe you should do more listening and less blustering. >------------------------------------------------------------------- >John Townsend ames!atari!towns >Atari Corporation >"I know I need something.. I just don't know what it is!" A more balanced perspective I suspect.... Cheers, Chris ------------------------------+--------------------------- Chris Mauritz |D{r det finns en |l, finns cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu |det en plan! (c)All rights reserved. | Send flames to /dev/null | ------------------------------+---------------------------
Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com (12/05/90)
John Tewnsend writes: >Finally! Someone who sums up the entire situation. I remember when reading >news was fun and most of all a learning experience. Seems like the quality >of people and information here is slipping a great deal. I remember when Atari Corp. produced and marketed quality, cutting-edge products, instead of jerking around users, dealers and developers. It seems the quality of people and information at Atari Corp has slipped a great deal. ... >Maybe someday, comp.sys.atari.st will come back around to its intended >purpose in life: to discuss the Atari ST computer. In the meantime, I >guess we all have to use news readers like nn to get rid of the trash >that Bob Rotelle (and others) write. Maybe someday Atari Corp. will come back around to its intended purpose in life: to produce and market quality, cutting-edge computers. In the meantime, I guess we all just have to put up with the with the trash that John Tewnsend (and Atari Corp.) write. Bob Retelle
stephen@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Steve Whitney) (12/05/90)
In article <36556@cup.portal.com> Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes: `John Tewnsend writes: obnoxious Bob R comments deleted. `>Maybe someday, comp.sys.atari.st will come back around to its intended `>purpose in life: to discuss the Atari ST computer. In the meantime, I `>guess we all have to use news readers like nn to get rid of the trash `>that Bob Rotelle (and others) write. ` `Maybe someday Atari Corp. will come back around to its intended purpose `in life: to produce and market quality, cutting-edge computers. In the `meantime, I guess we all just have to put up with the with the trash `that John Tewnsend (and Atari Corp.) write. ` ` `Bob Retelle *MILD FLAME ON* C'mon, Bob. I, for one, apprieciate John Townsend's presence on c.s.a.s., and I'm sure others do too. John usually posts good information. You usually post inflammatory fluff. I vote for John. *MILD FLAME OFF* By the way, I never heard Atari claim to be a cutting edge technology company. They usually build powerful computers that people can afford... lNot necessarily the _most_ powerful machines. -- Steve Whitney "It's never _really_ the last minute" (())_-_(()) UCLA Comp. Sci. Grad. Student | (* *) | Internet: stephen@cs.ucla.edu UCLA Bruin--> { \_@_/ } GEnie: S.WHITNEY (To Cal: We still have the axe!) `-----'
rost@aqua.enet.dec.com (BRost) (12/05/90)
In article <obJIrRW00WAx8B1lRW@andrew.cmu.edu>, mg20+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Paul Greelish) writes... >Get a Mac, not an IBM. IBMs are for corporate fascists, and besides, >Macs are better (ease of use, etc.) Apple isn't about to fade into the >woodwork like Atari periodically does. If you can't afford a Mac (get at >least a IIsi, not a Classic (yuk, same slow processor as an ST, and 9" >mono "graphics")) then get a Spectre GCR (wait for Version 3.0.) > >I'm getting a Mac IIsi if my parents can/will help me afford it >(although it's pretty cheap here with student discounts, $3000 is still >a lot of money) or a Spectre GCR if that's all I can afford. $3000 is a REAL LOT of money. Maybe my STs aren't Macs, but I've invested all of $500 in my Atari stuff. I just can't see where buying a "home" computer for the price of a car is a good move, sorry. Brian Rost @aqua.dec.com 508-467-6289 **************************************************** * * * The above does not reflect the opinions of * * my employer. * * * * If music is outlawed, only outlaws will be * * musicians. * * * ****************************************************
gcarter@globey.cs.wisc.edu (Gregory Carter) (12/06/90)
I wouldn't BUY ANY MAC. For god sake, I would wait to see what Mr. Small does with his new 030 add on board, you could save your self at least a grand this way, and the performance specs of Mr. Small's board is going to be a lot better than a IIsi for cripes sake! Not only that but the MAC IS LAME for playing games, I don't play games often but when I do, my ST is far better than any Mac game program. I would RECONSIDER if your a student, like me who is poor and currently in the dog house. --Gregory
cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Christopher M Mauritz) (12/06/90)
In article <1990Dec5.162218.16820@daffy.cs.wisc.edu> gcarter@globey.cs.wisc.edu (Gregory Carter) writes: >I wouldn't BUY ANY MAC. For god sake, I would wait to see what Mr. Small >does with his new 030 add on board, you could save your self at least a >grand this way, and the performance specs of Mr. Small's board is going to >be a lot better than a IIsi for cripes sake! The only problem with this line of reasoning is that nobody knows for sure when this board will be produced (if at all). With the Mac, and other computers that are currently on the shelves, you get a powerful computer that you can use today. If one were to follow your line of thought, then you would never buy a computer, but always wait for that marginally better one around the corner. Any computer you buy is going to be "obsolete" in a year or two (maybe sooner!) anyway. >Not only that but the MAC IS LAME for playing games, I don't play games >often but when I do, my ST is far better than any Mac game program. Is this really a useful way to judge a computer....by how well it plays games??? C'mon...Nintendo machines are cheap. :-) >I would RECONSIDER if your a student, like me who is poor and currently >in the dog house. Yes, computers are expensive, BUT Apple, Commodore, NeXT, Sun and many other companies offer SUBSTANTIAL discounts to students. Atari does not, Dave Small does not, Jim Allen does not. You should also consider that. >--Gregory Cheers, Chris (I will not be intimidated) Mauritz ------------------------------+--------------------------- Chris Mauritz |D{r det finns en |l, finns cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu |det en plan! (c)All rights reserved. | Send flames to /dev/null | ------------------------------+---------------------------
keithr@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (U.D.M.) (12/06/90)
I personal wouldn't buy a MAC either. I am not a student so I wouldn't be able to get the student discount. Plain and simple I can't afford a MAC even if I wanted to buy one. My ST still delievers me more bang for the buck than a MAC with the software that I can buy at VERY reasonable prices. There are a lot of people around that can't afford to go out and spend $3000 on a new computer. For you that can, great, go do it, but PLEASE stop belly aching on the net. It is getting a little old. Just my two cents... Keith keithr@icogem3.ICO.TEK.COM
cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Christopher M Mauritz) (12/06/90)
In article <36593@cup.portal.com> Dave_Ninjajr_Flory@cup.portal.com writes: > >>Atari people have pretty much dropped out of sight, except for an >>occasional.....etc. > >Thanks to people like you and Bob Retelle who don't seem to have >anything better to do than vent spleen. You certainly have a right to, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Thank you. I feel vindicated. >but your message gets really boring after it is read about 20 times... Ah, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What one man throws away is another man's treasure. Cheers, Chris ------------------------------+--------------------------- Chris Mauritz |D{r det finns en |l, finns cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu |det en plan! (c)All rights reserved. | Send flames to /dev/null | ------------------------------+---------------------------
kmm2765@isc.rit.edu (K.M. Mosiejczuk ) (12/07/90)
In article <1990Dec6.003112.25417@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Christopher M Mauritz) writes: >In article <1990Dec5.162218.16820@daffy.cs.wisc.edu> gcarter@globey.cs.wisc.edu (Gregory Carter) writes: >>I wouldn't BUY ANY MAC. For god sake, I would wait to see what Mr. Small I echo that thought... >Any computer you buy is going to be "obsolete" in a year or two >(maybe sooner!) anyway. > Computers don't become obsolete in a year or two, they just stop being CUTTING EDGE! There is a difference. Nothing is obsolete unless it doesn't fulfill anyone's needs. >>I would RECONSIDER if your a student, like me who is poor and currently >>in the dog house. > >Yes, computers are expensive, BUT Apple, Commodore, NeXT, Sun >and many other companies offer SUBSTANTIAL discounts to >students. Atari does not, Dave Small does not, Jim Allen does >not. You should also consider that. > Yes, however, Atari does not need to offer Substantial discounts because their equipment is low price already. And besides, almost NOBODY would by a mac without those discounts. By your logic, you should by the computer with the biggest discount on it... If so, I've got this old 8bit for 75% off (because you are a student of course). >Chris (I will not be intimidated) Mauritz ^^^^^^^^^^^ rational Kurt (I can't take it any more) Mosiejczuk
rehrauer@apollo.HP.COM (Steve Rehrauer) (12/07/90)
In article <1990Dec6.003112.25417@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Christopher M Mauritz) writes: >In article <1990Dec5.162218.16820@daffy.cs.wisc.edu> gcarter@globey.cs.wisc.edu (Gregory Carter) writes: >>I wouldn't BUY ANY MAC. For god sake, I would wait to see what Mr. Small >>does with his new 030 add on board, you could save your self at least a >>grand this way, and the performance specs of Mr. Small's board is going to >>be a lot better than a IIsi for cripes sake! > >The only problem with this line of reasoning is that nobody knows >for sure when this board will be produced (if at all). So unless you have an urgent need to buy a machine today, wait 6 months and see what happens. In this market, waiting can only benefit you. >>I would RECONSIDER if your a student, like me who is poor and currently >>in the dog house. > >Yes, computers are expensive, BUT Apple, Commodore, NeXT, Sun >and many other companies offer SUBSTANTIAL discounts to >students. Atari does not, Dave Small does not, Jim Allen does >not. You should also consider that. Also consider that an STe with the third-party hardware being discussed will probably come in below even Apple's discounted prices. (Commodore's & NeXT's educational discounts do seem pretty deep, though.) Me, I need to buy another car before I can contemplate another computer... -- "The goons are riding motorcycles, but WE'VE | (Steve) rehrauer@apollo.hp.com got a whole big metal car! This will be like | The Apollo Systems Division of stepping on ants..." -- Freelance Police | Hewlett-Packard
entropy@ai.mit.edu (entropy) (12/07/90)
In article <1990Dec6.003112.25417@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Christopher M Mauritz) writes:
Yes, computers are expensive, BUT Apple, Commodore, NeXT, Sun
and many other companies offer SUBSTANTIAL discounts to
students. Atari does not, Dave Small does not, Jim Allen does
not. You should also consider that.
I have never understood this line of reasoning. Why are Apple,
Commodore, NeXT, and Sun the good guys for ripping off everyone except
students, and Atari the bad guys for giving everyone a reasonable
price?
-e
No sig, my files are in limbo. Gnsrgh.neil@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Forsyth) (12/07/90)
In article <36556@cup.portal.com> Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes: >I guess we all just have to put up with the with the trash >that John Townsend (and Atari Corp.) write. I would rather we didn't insult the Atari employees who write here in case they feel that they would rather stop writing. I appreciate the technical help and occasional scoop on company policies they sometimes post and would be very sad if they were to stop. Those employees are not the policy makers but the programmers and engineers and as such should not really take such flak. At best we can hope that any of our more reasonable gripes are passed on to higher powers within the company and result in change. (eg. TOS 1.4 UK distribution) So Bob, in the interest of keeping in with the company that makes my favourite computer please "stop yer bitchin'". >Bob Retelle +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ! DISCLAIMER:Unless otherwise stated, the above comments are entirely my own ! ! ! ! "I think all right thinking people in this country are sick and tired of ! ! being told that ordinary decent people are fed up in this country with ! ! being sick and tired. I'm certainly not and I'm sick and tired of being ! ! told that I am!" - Monty Python ! ! ! ! Neil Forsyth JANET: neil@uk.ac.hw.cs ! ! Dept. of Computer Science ARPA: neil@cs.hw.ac.uk ! ! Heriot-Watt University UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!neil ! ! Edinburgh, Scotland, UK ! +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
leo@mat500.uucp (C. Bullerdick) (12/08/90)
ramsiri@blake.u.washington.edu (Enartloc Nhoj) writes: >I always remind myself, with all my "gripin' " , that my ST >can still do what it always has done. TEMPUS is still great. O-Yeah, and the applications on the ST are even getting 'greater'. Have you ever seen TurboC, Edison, PKS-Edit, Rufus, Scigraph or Gemini? Take a look, they are superb! >-kevin C. "Leo" B.
leo@mat500.uucp (C. Bullerdick) (12/08/90)
roberson@aurs01.UUCP (Charles "Chip" Roberson) writes: >>In article <obJIrRW00WAx8B1lRW@andrew.cmu.edu> mg20+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Paul Greelish) writes: >>The ST is dying. Nope, it's alive and becomes kicking again! >I have to agree. I had been planning on upgrading my ST to 4megs to run >the GNU stuff, but I've decided to save the money for another machine. Wait till january, ..., then get a TT! >Personally, I'm partial to Sun and their prices are getting better all >the time. I had wanted a NeXT I don't think it's going to make it either. >With the new Sun SPARC 2 announced, the market for SPARC 1s will open up >to us low-end types. In spite of buying a SunSparcNeXTMipsMac, i would prefer to get a new car, perhaps a 2nd-hand Porsche? THAT'S how the price is one have to pay for one of these in Europe! >I don't think I could ever buy an IBM drone. They have definitely overtaken >the ST in raw computing power but I still don't think much of the architecture >nor the OS and I don't like Intel chips. "No friend would give a PC to a friend" is something true i've read elsewhere... >An apple is a possibility, but it too is limited and pricey as well. >Power without the support isn't worth any price. If you'v got the power, there are ways to solve every problem, but if one have just support... >-chip C. Leo B. >* Work: 2912 Wake Forest Road, Raleigh, NC 27609 (919) 850-5011 >* (...!mcnc!aurgate!roberson) || (roberson%aurgate@mcnc.org) || >* (71500.2056@CompuServe.com) || (Chip.Roberson@f112.n151.z1.fidonet.org) >#include <disclaimer.h>
pietrzak@john.CES.CWRU.Edu (John Pietrzak) (12/08/90)
In article <36556@cup.portal.com> Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes: >John Tewnsend writes: > >>Maybe someday, comp.sys.atari.st will come back around to its intended >>purpose in life: to discuss the Atari ST computer. In the meantime, I >>guess we all have to use news readers like nn to get rid of the trash >>that Bob Rotelle (and others) write. > >Maybe someday Atari Corp. will come back around to its intended purpose >in life: to produce and market quality, cutting-edge computers. In the >meantime, I guess we all just have to put up with the with the trash >that John Tewnsend (and Atari Corp.) write. > Maybe someday we can get this Just Gripin' string closed down!?! Here, let me help: J.T., You're a moron. B.R., You're a moron. Everyone reading this, you are also morons. Of course, the person writing this is also an incredible moron. Anyone else that the reader of this article would like me to call a moron, ok, he/she/it is a moron. All right, everyone happy? John, sit back and consider how it looks for an official Atari employee to be calling anyone on the atari board's messages trash, no matter how much they may deserve it. Bob, knee-jerk reactions will not regain your honor. I usually have more respect for someone who can keep his cool under pressure, not just trade blows on the same level. Don't let people pull you down to their level, and they may just respect you for it! Please, people, lets practice some restraint? :) Thanks JP
charlie@wam.umd.edu (Charles William Fletcher) (12/11/90)
In article <1063@mat500.uucp> leo@mat500.uucp (C. Bullerdick) writes: >ramsiri@blake.u.washington.edu (Enartloc Nhoj) writes: > >>I always remind myself, with all my "gripin' " , that my ST >>can still do what it always has done. TEMPUS is still great. > >O-Yeah, and the applications on the ST are even getting 'greater'. >Have you ever seen TurboC, Edison, PKS-Edit, Rufus, Scigraph or Gemini? >Take a look, they are superb! > >>-kevin > >C. "Leo" B. I would love to *SEE* them--but where. My point is that I can't find a dealer (in the DC area) where I can view software. Everything is mail order. Unless I see a review that makes it look like the software will fit my needs, I never really get it. -Charlie
boyd@mailer.cc.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd) (12/12/90)
In article <1990Dec10.191405.1924@wam.umd.edu>, charlie@wam.umd.edu (Charles William Fletcher) writes: >In article <1063@mat500.uucp> leo@mat500.uucp (C. Bullerdick) writes: > >>[....description of neato software...] > >I would love to *SEE* them--but where. My point is that I can't >find a dealer (in the DC area) where I can view software. Everything >is mail order. Unless I see a review that makes it look like the >software will fit my needs, I never really get it. > >-Charlie I would recommend to ANY ST user that they get a subscription to Current Notes magazine. I believe they are now $27 per year. They have great reviews, and will actually tell you that something is caca (I have never seen STart do that, though they have reviewed some real dogs). This mag started out as a newsletter for several large Atari Users Groups in the DC area, and just kept getting bigger and better. They also have a great PD library, and are commited to keeping it up to date (for example, I was told that I could send my purchased PD disk of whatever version n and they would put version n+1 on it for free). I have bought disks from places and found them to have bad arc files, old versions, files missing (No .rsc! Arrrgh!) etc. I have never had these or any other problems with CN. For those of you that use the Spectre, there is a monthly column which discusses this. Whenever I meet a new STer (it actually happens quite frequently, by the way), I always show them an issue, and as of yet they have ALL bought subscriptions. The mag is thick and meaty, no color adds. It is produced completely on an ST system (and it looks really nice, I belive they use a combination of Pagestream, Calamus, and Publisher ST). This mag can cure the MAIN problem with most STers in the US, mainly that they don't know about what is available, and don't want to find out the hard way. Reviews are the main emphasis in this mag, not marketing/advertising crap. The address for CN is : Current Notes Subscriptions 122 N. Johnson Rd. Sterling, VA 22170 (703)450-4761 $27 for 1 years subscription (10 issues, they skip aug and jan) If you call them, you may be able to arrange ordering just one issue, to check it out. They are also sold in several book/magazine stores in the DC area, and at some Atari dealers (chicken and the egg . . ). I am in no way connected with CN, other than as a satisfied customer. So satisfied in fact, that I bought all their back issues so I have a complete library of ST info (how many of you can say THAT?!?). If you are a somewhat discouraged ST owner, $27 is a lot cheaper than a new computer! -- Mickey R. Boyd | "God is a comedian playing to an FSU Computer Science | audience too afraid to laugh." Technical Support Group | email: boyd@fsucs.cs.fsu.edu | - Voltaire
hastoerm@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Moriland) (12/16/90)
Wow. This is a change. First, let me confess, I am an Amiga owner who's peeking in on the other groups. I'm not here to flame anyone on the Atari ST or anything like that, though, so don't worry. I'm checking in mainly because I was wondering what had happened to all the ST people and just happen to pass by the newsgroup during an RN scan. I can remember a time when locally (Michigan) the BBSs were alive with the Atari ST people predicting that Commodore would die seeing as Atari beat them to the market and how the ST was out selling the Amiga 7-1. Heh. In a way, I kind of miss those folks. I know of only one Atari ST person in my local area who is active on any of the BBSs in the area. One. So I thought I'd peek in to find out where they had all gone. At one time, I had considered them a nusiance as it seemed they were always coming into the Amiga echos on Fidonet and starting arguments. (It never really occurred to me that some Amiga folks were doing the same on the ST Echos at that time, though now I know they did.) Now, some of these posts are almost depressing. I know how much I love my Amiga and how disappointed I would be if it didn't look like it was going anywhere, etc. As much as I want the Amiga succeed, I don't want the ST to do badly. Imagine what all those guys who bought TI99's must feel like! Just thought I'd take a moment to mention this: If Atari does end up calling it quits, and you guys make the transfer to another machine, just thought I'd let you guys know that some weirdo in the Amiga market has come out with an Atari ST emulator. It's called the Medusa Board and it seems to run rather well. At least you won't have to give up all your old software in the switch. With an accellerated Amiga, it is said the board will run ST software twice as fast as a normal ST. Weird. Anyways, good luck. This wasn't meant to start a flame war or anything. Just felt like speaking my feelings for a moment. -Moriland P.S. You guys got one great victory over Amiga. You have Lords of Conquest for the ST. It's never been ported to the Amiga and I've always wanted a copy for my machine. Great game. -- /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ "As if things weren't bad enough already...."| Founder of: "Evil Young Please excuse my ramblings as they come from | Mutants For A Better Tommorow. a diseased mind. -Moriland | hastoerm@vela.acs.oakland.edu
hastoerm@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Moriland) (12/16/90)
>>Get a Mac, not an IBM. IBMs are for corporate fascists, and besides, Get a life. I'd recommend an IBM clone before a Mac. I don't even OWN an IBM anymore. (Sold it to buy a second Amiga.) Macs are indeed very easy to use, but the price they ask is simply outrageous. Combine that with the fact that they are poorly designed and most of them have trouble with the latest version of the OS, and it adds up to a bad idea all the way around. Part of the reason these folks BOUGHT an ST in the first place was because they didn't feel like shelling out the big bucks you need for a Mac! > >$3000 is a REAL LOT of money. Maybe my STs aren't Macs, but I've invested all >of $500 in my Atari stuff. I just can't see where buying a "home" computer >for the price of a car is a good move, sorry. Heck, for $3000 you could get an Amiga 3000! I mean, if you're going to go spending that much money, might as well get something you won't need to expand right away! -Moriland -- /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ "As if things weren't bad enough already...."| Founder of: "Evil Young Please excuse my ramblings as they come from | Mutants For A Better Tommorow. a diseased mind. -Moriland | hastoerm@vela.acs.oakland.edu
hastoerm@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Moriland) (12/16/90)
Commodore's Student Discounts are amazingly deep. A good friend of mine bought the 25MHz version A3000 just recently for only $2600! (Normally it is closer to costing $4000.) It would seem that Commodore was giving the monitors away free as a promotion at the time so the 1950 (around $500 cause it's multi-sync) didn't add any extra cost. -Moriland -- /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ "As if things weren't bad enough already...."| Founder of: "Evil Young Please excuse my ramblings as they come from | Mutants For A Better Tommorow. a diseased mind. -Moriland | hastoerm@vela.acs.oakland.edu