dh@tardis.cs.ed.ac.uk (12/02/90)
A response from Atari on this one please! Here in Europe, Atari are now shipping some STE's with soldered in RAM. Forgive me if i'm wrong, but was one of the plus points of the STE not the easy memory upgrades using SIMM's? I reckon Atari are peeved that people are buying 520STE's and pluggin in extra SIMM modules. Atari would rather people buy the 1040STE. However, there is no difference between the 520STE and 1040STE apart from the larger memory...so why splash out extra dosh for a 1040STE? I reckon Atari have dug themselves into this hole. The basci hardware of all their machines is the same...face it...there is absolutely no reason to buy a 1040STE. But why do Ataari have to go and spoil it and solder in ram. It's going to confuse memory upgrading even more. On a different note, I've just bought the new SIMM Ram board for my normal ST from Evesham Micros here in the UK. It costs 89 UK pounds wheen it commes with 2x256K simm's which upgrades a 520ST to 1Mb of ram. This allows me the easy-upgradeability of the STE range (hah!). I can currently get 1Mb simm's for 30 pounds....s to upgrade my ST to 4Mb would cost me 120 pounds in the future. Hmm..why would a Mega 4ST cost me hundreds more <grin> Time for some price reductions Atari! Rich
grahamt@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Graham Thomas) (12/06/90)
From article <sent.Sun.Dec..2.01:10:38.GMT.1990.via.CS.TARDIS>, by dh@tardis.cs.ed.ac.uk: > > Here in Europe, Atari are now shipping some STE's with soldered in RAM. > Forgive me if i'm wrong, but was one of the plus points of the STE not the > easy memory upgrades using SIMM's? > > I reckon Atari are peeved that people are buying 520STE's and pluggin in > extra SIMM modules. Atari would rather people buy the 1040STE. > However, there is no difference between the 520STE and 1040STE apart from > the larger memory...so why splash out extra dosh for a 1040STE? > Can Atari really be so stupid? Can they really? Is it possible that they want to disable one of the best features of the STE, just to 'differentiate the market'? Well, I guess most people who've been following this newsgroup for some time will know that it's possible for Atari to do all sorts of foolish things. Still, some are more foolish than others. Over the past few years I've recommended STs to quite a lot of people in the University I work at. I'm certainly not going to recommend any machine which cannot have its memory upgraded quickly and simply. In the 1990s anything other than plug-in memory simply isn't good enough. In the UK, Atari have certainly not covered themselves with glory with respect to the STE's release: * They failed to get the specifications to developers early enough, with the result that there was a great outcry about incompatibility when the STE was released without any fanfare in Autumn 1989 * They have consistently refused to acknowledge that the STE's DMA interface was, until quite recently, wrongly designed and manufactured. * Now they're selling STEs without SIMMs. To be fair, some of this is probably not the fault of the UK people. Don't get me wrong. I still think my STs (especially my STE) are very useful machines. I'll still be using them in future. But I think the best that can be said about Atari the company is that it would make an excellent case study for management schools, as an example of how not to innovate and market IT products. This is despite the excellent work being done by some Atari employees who are doing their best to make up for the utter crassness of the top management. I know this is not constructive. I know I'm griping. I know I'm providing what is technically known as 'Chris Mauritz fodder' (Hi, Chris. :-) ) But some things are just too exasperating to let go without comment. Graham -- Graham Thomas, SPRU, Mantell Building, U of Sussex, Brighton, BN1 9RF, UK JANET: grahamt@uk.ac.sussex.syma BITNET: grahamt%syma.sussex.ac.uk@UKACRL INTERNET: grahamt%syma.sussex.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk UUCP: grahamt%syma.sussex@ukc.uucp PHONE: +44 273 686758 FAX: [..] 685865
ralph@laas.fr (Ralph P. Sobek) (12/07/90)
With all of Graham's comments, I'm glad that I have a Mega 4 ST. Now, only if I had TOS 1.4 :-< .... -- Ralph P. Sobek Disclaimer: The above ruminations are my own. ralph@laas.fr Addresses are ordered by importance. ralph@laas.uucp, or ...!uunet!laas!ralph If all else fails, try: sobek@eclair.Berkeley.EDU =============================================================================== Reliable software should kill people reliably! -Andy Mickel, Pascal News #13,78
Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com (12/08/90)
In defense of Atari... (what a concept..! better sit down folks...) Atari never stated that the STe was expandable... in fact, Allen Pratt tried to warn people about just this very possibility. Atari puts in whateve parts are cheaper that week, SIPPs or SIMMs, without any concern about whether or not the end user will be able to expand the machine. Charles Cherry, when he was at Atari, said that the TT is officially the *FIRST* Atari product to be expandable. So with the STe, you pays your money and you takes your chances... BobR
kmm2765@isc.rit.edu (K.M. Mosiejczuk ) (12/09/90)
In article <3974@syma.sussex.ac.uk> grahamt@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Graham Thomas) writes: >From article <sent.Sun.Dec..2.01:10:38.GMT.1990.via.CS.TARDIS>, by dh@tardis.cs.ed.ac.uk: >> >> Here in Europe, Atari are now shipping some STE's with soldered in RAM. >> Forgive me if i'm wrong, but was one of the plus points of the STE not the >> easy memory upgrades using SIMM's? >> >> I reckon Atari are peeved that people are buying 520STE's and pluggin in >> extra SIMM modules. Atari would rather people buy the 1040STE. >> However, there is no difference between the 520STE and 1040STE apart from >> the larger memory...so why splash out extra dosh for a 1040STE? >> > >Can Atari really be so stupid? Can they really? Is it possible that they >want to disable one of the best features of the STE, just to >'differentiate the market'? > Actually, I heard there were a couple reasons for why there was soldered RAM in your STs. Neither of these had to do with the 520ST problem. First, Atari wanted to get these puppies out as quickly as possible, if they had to use soldered in DRAMs, fine. This may not have been a great move, but Atari got the computers out more quickly. And you cannot honestly say that you wouldn't have griped if the first STEs were delayed more. Second, at least for our European friend, I heard that there was some sort of a lack of SIMMs over in Europe. I am not positive of this and maybe someone can back me up or tell me I am wrong. Besides, I thought that while the SIMMs upgradeability was a good feature, the stereo sound and graphics palette of 4096 colors were the two most major enhancements. My friend just received his STE and the sound was incredible. Anyway, now you can make your questions, comments, or cheap shots. [steepnig down from podeum] -- *---------------------------------------------------------------------* ! "But what man is entirely without evil intent in the ! ! silence of his soul?" -- Pawn of Prophecy ! ! by David Eddings !
djw@hpldsla.sid.hp.com (David Williams) (12/11/90)
Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes: > Atari never stated that the STe was expandable... in fact, Allen Pratt > tried to warn people about just this very possibility. Just because Atari states that the STe is not an expandable machine, does not make it a wise marketing decision, and does nothing to satisfy customers. Atari needs to realise that customers are not idiots, and will want to do things (like expand memory) that they know to be industry standard, common practices. If, in some outdated hope of directing the machine purchasing of their customer base, Atari chooses to adopt an approach which goes against the wishes of their customers, they will ultimately pay the price associated with that kind of (outdated) strategy: they will lose their customer base. More, and more the Atari machines are facing a challenge to maintain any kind of market share. If Atari is incapable of working to make these machines as competitive, in every sense, as those from other manufacturers, Atari will be truely relogated to the "also-ran" class. > Atari puts in whateve > parts are cheaper that week, SIPPs or SIMMs, without any concern about > whether or not the end user will be able to expand the machine. An approach which, years ago, most companies recognised as being one that comprises quality control, inventory management, and the manufacturer's ability to deliver product when the customer wishes to purchase. Maybe it is this mentality which sees Atari failing to deliver machines for the pre-Christmas buying frenzy. Good one guys! David "C-Lab Notator - the really good reason to buy an Atari ST" Williams djw@hpldsla.hp.com, (djw)hpldsla/HP1900/00, (415) 857 6100
Roger.Sheppard@bbs.actrix.gen.nz (12/13/90)
<27740005@hpldsla.sid.hp.com> Sender: Followup-To: Distribution:world Organization: Actrix Information Exchange, Wellington, New Zealand Keywords: Comment-To: djw@hpldsla.sid.hp.com In article <27740005@hpldsla.sid.hp.com> djw@hpldsla.sid.hp.com (David Williams) writes: > Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes: > > > Atari never stated that the STe was expandable... in fact, Allen Pratt > > tried to warn people about just this very possibility. > > Just because Atari states that the STe is not an expandable > machine, does not make it a wise marketing decision, and does > nothing to satisfy customers. Atari needs to realise that > customers are not idiots, and will want to do things (like > expand memory) that they know to be industry standard, common > practices. If, in some outdated hope of directing the machine > purchasing of their customer base, Atari chooses to adopt an > approach which goes against the wishes of their customers, they > will ultimately pay the price associated with that kind of > (outdated) strategy: they will lose their customer base. > > More, and more the Atari machines are facing a challenge to > maintain any kind of market share. If Atari is incapable of > working to make these machines as competitive, in every sense, > as those from other manufacturers, Atari will be truely > relogated to the "also-ran" class. > > > Atari puts in whateve > > parts are cheaper that week, SIPPs or SIMMs, without any concern about > > whether or not the end user will be able to expand the machine. > > An approach which, years ago, most companies recognised as being > one that comprises quality control, inventory management, and > the manufacturer's ability to deliver product when the customer > wishes to purchase. Maybe it is this mentality which sees Atari > failing to deliver machines for the pre-Christmas buying frenzy. > Good one guys! > > David > "C-Lab Notator - the really good reason to buy an Atari ST" > Williams > > djw@hpldsla.hp.com, (djw)hpldsla/HP1900/00, (415) 857 6100 Well i do have a Atari phamplet on the STE, and is does State that the RAM: internally expandable to 4 Mb; This would be one reson that i would purchase a STE, SIMMS here in NZ. are $90 NZ per Meg: but the cost of a 2/4 Meg STE , is far to high, NOTE: a 1040 STE plus Colour Monitor plus 30 Meg Hard Disk, comes to $3900 NZ, you can bye a Teco 386SX with 40 meg hard disk,1 meg ram and VGA with VGA monitor for $2900 NZ, i don't se the 'TT' will ever get a look in here... -- Roger W. Sheppard 85 Donovan Rd, Kapiti New Zealand...
stu892103@gcc.uucp (Flippin' like a flag on a pole..) (12/13/90)
In article <3974@syma.sussex.ac.uk>, grahamt@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Graham Thomas) writes: >> I reckon Atari are peeved that people are buying 520STE's and pluggin in >> extra SIMM modules. Atari would rather people buy the 1040STE. >> However, there is no difference between the 520STE and 1040STE apart from >> the larger memory...so why splash out extra dosh for a 1040STE? >> > > Can Atari really be so stupid? Can they really? Is it possible that they > want to disable one of the best features of the STE, just to > 'differentiate the market'? > Well, the same goes with the regular 520stfm's here. My friend just bought a 520stfm and lo and behold when you open the case, there's a 1040 board with 1/2 a meg of memory on it and the holes where the other 1/2 meg would be are filled with solder. So, all that is needed is to desolder the holes, plug in the other 1/2 meg, and change a little solder bridge that lets the machine access the memory and there you go, for about $30-$40 (generally):-) you have a 1040stfm. I guess Atari doesn't make 520 boards any more. --Someone is really making out on the deal when people buy a 1040 for much more. > But I think the best that can be said about Atari the company is that it > would make an excellent case study for management schools, as an example of > how not to innovate and market IT products. Good thinking, my management book here at college already has a few paragraphs about Jack Tramiel as an example of bad management. (This is from when he was with Commodore, but nothing seems to have changed.) :-( Steve Greer
pegram@kira.UUCP (Robert B. Pegram) (12/14/90)
From article <1990Dec13.121127.1076@actrix.gen.nz>, by Roger.Sheppard@bbs.actrix.gen.nz: > In article <27740005@hpldsla.sid.hp.com> djw@hpldsla.sid.hp.com (David Williams) writes: >> Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes: >> >> > Atari never stated that the STe was expandable... in fact, Allen > Pratt >> > tried to warn people about just this very possibility. My, what selective memories we have here! Alan Pratt had to pubicly eat his words about nonexpandability of STEs right in this newsgroup, so the next quote is supposed to be correct. Of course, Atari could change its mind, or goof sometimes. BTW, STEs only use SIMMS or SIPPS, which are as removable as SIMMS, when not soldered in 8-). > Well i do have a Atari pamphlet on the STE, and it does State > RAM: internally expandable to 4 Mb; (Sorry Roger, had to delete NZ comments, or my poster will reject this...) > -- > Roger W. Sheppard 85 Donovan Rd, Kapiti New Zealand... Let's drop this unless *lots* of STEs show up unexpandable, OK? Bob Pegram pegram@griffin.uvm.edu
ekrimen@ecst.csuchico.edu (Ed Krimen) (12/14/90)
Roger.Sheppard@bbs.actrix.gen.nz writes: - NOTE: a 1040 STE plus Colour Monitor plus 30 Meg Hard Disk, comes to - $3900 NZ, you can bye a Teco 386SX with 40 meg hard disk,1 meg ram - and VGA with VGA monitor for $2900 NZ, i don't se the 'TT' will ever - get a look in here... A friend of mine does this. I bring him Atari information, which he appreciates, and then he tells me he can get a 386 for 400 bucks. (Exaggeration; please don't e-mail me.) I was going to write more, but I figured it might start a LOOOONG discussion about 386 systems, which I don't want to hear. There's just no comparison between a 386 and an ST. It's an apple and oranges comparison. -- Ed Krimen ............................................... ||| Video Production Major, California State University, Chico ||| INTERNET: ekrimen@ecst.csuchico.edu FREENET: al661 / | \ SysOp, Fuji BBS: 916-894-1261 FIDONET: 1:119/4.0
cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Christopher M Mauritz) (12/14/90)
In article <67@gcc.uucp> stu892103@gcc.uucp (Flippin' like a flag on a pole..) writes: >> Can Atari really be so stupid? Can they really? Is it possible that they >> want to disable one of the best features of the STE, just to >> 'differentiate the market'? Nah, I think they just use the cheapest parts that happen to be around on any given production run. Your conspiracy theory about them wanting to do it to differentiate the market is far too clever. Don't give them any more ideas. :-) > --Someone is really making out on the deal when people buy a 1040 for much >more. Yes, it is safe to say that Atari is making a higher margin on the 1040 machines since the additional parts and labor do not even come close to the additional premium you pay for the 1040 over the 520. > >> But I think the best that can be said about Atari the company is that it >> would make an excellent case study for management schools, as an example of >> how not to innovate and market IT products. Agreed. > Good thinking, my management book here at college already has a few paragraphs > about Jack Tramiel as an example of bad management. (This is from when he was > with Commodore, but nothing seems to have changed.) :-( That is interesting. He must be famous. He is also mentioned in a book used by my friend at Columbia Business School in connection with the fall of Commodore after the initial success of the Vic-20/C-64 boxes. I'm sure he is making money regardless of how he butchers the company. It is the stockholders that are getting burned. >Steve Greer Cheers, Chris ------------------------------+--------------------------- Chris Mauritz |D{r det finns en |l, finns cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu |det en plan! (c)All rights reserved. | Send flames to /dev/null | ------------------------------+---------------------------
schultzd@kira.uucp (David Schultz) (12/16/90)
Just remember that the 520STfm's didn't always have 1040 motherboards. Know what you're buying before you shell out the dough! -- ----- David W. Schultz ----- ----- uunet!frith!schultzd ----- ----- Work Phone: (517)-353-8891 ----- -- "Since my opinions are mine, I won't tell you who I work for." --
grahamt@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Graham Thomas) (12/18/90)
From article <1990Dec13.195013.8093@uvm.edu>, by pegram@kira.UUCP (Robert B. Pegram): > > Let's drop this unless *lots* of STEs show up unexpandable, OK? > > Bob Pegram I'll do my best to check out exactly how the memory in the 'new' STEs sold in the UK is configured. I've seen the story about how STEs are being sold with something other than SIMM memory in so many places that I'm fairly sure there's something solid here - but I don't know exactly what's going on. Maybe Richard Imlach (the original poster on this) has some hard information. Graham -- Graham Thomas, SPRU, Mantell Building, U of Sussex, Brighton, BN1 9RF, UK JANET: grahamt@uk.ac.sussex.syma BITNET: grahamt%syma.sussex.ac.uk@UKACRL INTERNET: grahamt%syma.sussex.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk UUCP: grahamt%syma.sussex@ukc.uucp PHONE: +44 273 686758 FAX: [..] 685865