Yonderboy@cup.portal.com (Christopher Lee Russell) (12/10/90)
What is the current verdict on all of the extened format programs I have
ran across. Is it safe to format a disk with these programs (is the data
going to be secure). I have a program that formats 82 track and gives
me near 800K is this OK? Also what is the twister format, is this good?
....Thanks ahead of time... .....Yonderboy@cup.portal.comekrimen@ecst.csuchico.edu (Ed Krimen) (12/10/90)
In article <36743@cup.portal.com> Yonderboy@cup.portal.com (Christopher Lee Russ ell) writes: >What is the current verdict on all of the extened format programs I have >ran across. Is it safe to format a disk with these programs (is the data >going to be secure). I have a program that formats 82 track and gives >me near 800K is this OK? Also what is the twister format, is this good? I've been formatting my disks at 82/10 (828K -- the damn GEMDOS bug won't recognize two sectors on the disk, so I don't get 830K) for 3 years, ever since I've had an ST. No problems. I also format them with a 'twister' or 'skew' option. I recommend DC Format (version 3.2 is the latest, I think) and Mystic. Mystic automatically formats with skew and the nice thing is that it formats in the background. I also recommend DESKFMT which is in RAMPLS12.LZH (or similar filename). I have NeoDesk 3.0 and TOS 1.6 so I use those. (Damn vi editor! ARGH!) -- Ed Krimen ............................................... ||| Video Production Major, California State University, Chico ||| INTERNET: ekrimen@ecst.csuchico.edu FREENET: al661 / | \ SysOp, Fuji BBS: 916-894-1261 FIDONET: 1:119/4.0
jfbruno@rodan.acs.syr.edu (John Bruno) (12/10/90)
In article <36743@cup.portal.com> Yonderboy@cup.portal.com (Christopher Lee Russell) writes: >What is the current verdict on all of the extened format programs I have >ran across. Is it safe to format a disk with these programs (is the data >going to be secure). I have a program that formats 82 track and gives >me near 800K is this OK? Probably, but that depends on your particular drive. It's beyond the specs for the drive to ask it to go to track 81 (track 80 is the "official" max number of tracks.) There is no error returned from the drive if it can't get to track 80 or 81 (the first track is track #0), it will simply go to track 79 and act like everything is fine. The only time you'll know if it worked or not is if you fill the disk completely and see if all of the files are complete and intact. Some drives can do it, some can't. I don't even think you can generalize between manufacturers, it depends on the individual unit. If it works the first time, however, you should be able to count on it. Some software will put extra sectors on every track, 9 is standard, I think, but some will try to go for 11. Once again, I don't think that you'll get an error if it fails. Instead of the head not making it to a track, as above, the extra sector method will try to keep writing sectors to the same track, hoping that the last sector doesn't overwrite the first one(s). Some software will combine both of the above methods and can get up to around 1MB, I think. However, I advise you NOT to do this on your backup floppies. Especially not method #2 above. I just don't trust pushing the hardware beyond specs. I bet that over the months/years, you'd end up with a corrupted disk. >Also what is the twister format, is this good? Twister is to get better speed from the disk, not more storage. What happens is the sectors are staggered from track to track in such a way that reading long files will be quicker because you save some extra revolutions, the drive won't have to wait for the sector to spin under the head. Twister is reliable since it just staggers the sectors. You don't get any extra storage. > > ....Thanks ahead of time... .....Yonderboy@cup.portal.com ---jb
cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Christopher M Mauritz) (12/10/90)
In article <1990Dec10.053401.6544@ecst.csuchico.edu> ekrimen@ecst.csuchico.edu (Ed Krimen) writes: >In article <36743@cup.portal.com> Yonderboy@cup.portal.com (Christopher Lee Russ >ell) writes: >>What is the current verdict on all of the extened format programs I have >>ran across. Is it safe to format a disk with these programs (is the data >>going to be secure). I have a program that formats 82 track and gives >>me near 800K is this OK? Also what is the twister format, is this good? > >I've been formatting my disks at 82/10 (828K -- the damn GEMDOS bug won't >recognize two sectors on the disk, so I don't get 830K) for 3 years, ever >since I've had an ST. No problems. I also format them with a 'twister' or >'skew' option. I recommend DC Format (version 3.2 is the latest, I think) >and Mystic. Mystic automatically formats with skew and the nice >thing is that it formats in the background. I also recommend DESKFMT >which is in RAMPLS12.LZH (or similar filename). I have NeoDesk 3.0 >and TOS 1.6 so I use those. While I had my ST, I ALWAYS used 10 sector formats and I don't I ever lost any data due to that. As Ed mentioned, you'll get slightly speedier performance if you set the interleave for 1 sector. I always used HyperCopy and Format11 by Matt Orsie. Almost any formatter will do the job, but you should look for one that also VERIFIES the format to make sure everything is OK. As for 11 sectors, well....it never worked on my ST and always munged files. Apparently, your drive has to spin at EXACTLY the proper speed (300rpm) for it to work. I wouldn't trust any important data to this format. Cheers, Chris ------------------------------+--------------------------- Chris Mauritz |D{r det finns en |l, finns cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu |det en plan! (c)All rights reserved. | Send flames to /dev/null | ------------------------------+---------------------------
ralph@laas.fr (Ralph P. Sobek) (12/12/90)
In article <1990Dec10.150826.8845@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Christopher M Mauritz) writes: | Almost any formatter will do the job, but you should look for | one that also VERIFIES the format to make sure everything is OK. Does FORMAT.{PRG,ACC} (posted to atari.archive, I believe) VERIFY the format? Thanks, -- Ralph P. Sobek Disclaimer: The above ruminations are my own. ralph@laas.fr Addresses are ordered by importance. ralph@laas.uucp, or ...!uunet!laas!ralph If all else fails, try: sobek@eclair.Berkeley.EDU =============================================================================== Reliable software should kill people reliably! -Andy Mickel, Pascal News #13,78
Roger.Sheppard@bbs.actrix.gen.nz (12/13/90)
<1990Dec10.150826.8845@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> <RALPH.90Dec12105736@orion.laas.fr> Sender: Followup-To: Distribution:world Organization: Actrix Information Exchange, Wellington, New Zealand Keywords: Comment-To: ralph@laas.fr In article <RALPH.90Dec12105736@orion.laas.fr> ralph@laas.fr (Ralph P. Sobek) writes: > In article <1990Dec10.150826.8845@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Christopher M Mauritz) writes: > | Almost any formatter will do the job, but you should look for > | one that also VERIFIES the format to make sure everything is OK. > > Does FORMAT.{PRG,ACC} (posted to atari.archive, I believe) VERIFY the > format? > > Thanks, > > -- > Ralph P. Sobek Disclaimer: The above ruminations are my own. > ralph@laas.fr Addresses are ordered by importance. > ralph@laas.uucp, or ...!uunet!laas!ralph > If all else fails, try: sobek@eclair.Berkeley.EDU > ======================================================================== ======= > Reliable software should kill people reliably! -Andy Mickel, Pascal News #13,78 Hyper Format by A german chap that gets on here "Brod" is i think part of his name, Please excuse not knowing it, but his Formater works very well, and has the Option to Verify, and will do PC Formats, and 11 sector formats, and this one works !, but don't know if it has the 3 sector FAT option, as the Atari uses a none standard 5 sector format this can play havock with PC's, The Program Name that i have is HYPFM320.PRG, i don't know if there is a later one, also this Program will do 1.1 Meg and 1.2 meg Formats, with Hardware Mods, this i don't have the details on, but from what i gather, you speed up the clock to the controller ic.. -- Roger W. Sheppard 85 Donovan Rd, Kapiti New Zealand...
sstreep@next.com (Sam Streeper) (12/14/90)
In article <RALPH.90Dec12105736@orion.laas.fr> ralph@laas.fr (Ralph P. Sobek) writes: >Does FORMAT.{PRG,ACC} (posted to atari.archive, I believe) VERIFY the >format? I don't know about this one, but I posted my formatter to comp.[sources binaries].atari.st, which formats 10 track, 80 sector disks and verifies them. It runs as a program or accessory, and writes 800K disks such that single sided drives can read 400K of that. It's called DUBL_VIS.PRG and it should be on the archives, I suspect. It doesn't have any interesting options like ms-dos boot sector or sector skewing, but someone could add that if they liked... It doesn't do any weird tricks and has been completely reliable in my experience. -sam
csbrod@medusainformatik.uni-erlangen.de (Claus Brod ) (12/17/90)
Roger.Sheppard@bbs.actrix.gen.nz writes: >Hyper Format by A german chap that gets on here "Brod" is i think part >of his name, Please excuse not knowing it, but his Formater works very >well, and has the Option to Verify, and will do PC Formats, and 11 >sector formats, and this one works !, but don't know if it has the >3 sector FAT option, as the Atari uses a none standard 5 sector format >this can play havock with PC's, The Program Name that i have is >HYPFM320.PRG, i don't know if there is a later one, also this Program >will do 1.1 Meg and 1.2 meg Formats, with Hardware Mods, this i don't >have the details on, but from what i gather, you speed up the clock >to the controller ic.. HYPERFORMAT indeed does all these things, but it's not PD. It's part of my book 'Scheibenkleister', therefore it can only be obtained legally by buying the book. Just to put in a grain of salt 8-) You're right with your theory concerning the hardware mod for 1.1 MB disks. It was published last year in the German computer magazine 'ST-Computer'. In late summer 89, a friend of ours developped the High Density solution for the ST (1.44 MB, PC-compatible disks), and HYPERFORMAT supports these formats, too. It packs up to 21 sectors on one track, totalling a whopping 1.7 MB on a standard 3.5" HD disk. In Germany, several other PD programs are available that do extra stuff with your disks; most of them also include some kind of twister format. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Claus Brod, Am Felsenkeller 2, Things. Take. Time. D-8772 Marktheidenfeld, West Germany (Piet Hein) csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de ----------------------------------------------------------------------
cadp15@vaxa.strath.ac.uk (12/17/90)
In article <36743@cup.portal.com>, Yonderboy@cup.portal.com (Christopher Lee Russell) writes: > What is the current verdict on all of the extened format programs I have > ran across. Is it safe to format a disk with these programs (is the data > going to be secure). I have a program that formats 82 track and gives > me near 800K is this OK? Also what is the twister format, is this good? > > ....Thanks ahead of time... .....Yonderboy@cup.portal.com Well, at the moment I have about half a dozen disks that I use daily that are double sided, 84 tracks and 11 sector - gives me about 930 Kb. I've been using them for about 8 months now with no problem - BUT I do use high quality BRANDED disks (mainly TDK and Sony), lesser quality disks just do not cope. Anything past 10 sectors is risky, and to find out how many tracks your drive can cope with you can (though not really recommended) tell it to format 85 tracks and listen to the drive - when it stops going clunk after every track then you've gone to far (ie you can format to one track less than the one you're on). MOST drives will happily cope with 82 track/10 sectors... -- #include xmas.sig /******************************************************************************* * The Sorcerer man be 'Only visiting this planet' but wishes you a merry * * Christmas and a happy New Year. He can still be found at: * * * * JANET: cadx862@uk.ac.strathclyde.computer-centre-sun * * cadp15 @uk.ac.strathclyde.vaxb * * INTERNET: via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk BITNET: via ukacrl UUCP: via ukc.uucp * * * * or second star to the right and straight on 'till morning. * *******************************************************************************/
Roger.Sheppard@bbs.actrix.gen.nz (12/18/90)
<1990Dec13.115304.824@actrix.gen.nz> <3386@medusainformatik.uni-erlangen.de> Sender: Followup-To: Distribution:world Organization: Actrix Information Exchange, Wellington, New Zealand Keywords: Comment-To: csbrod@medusainformatik.uni-erlangen.de In article <3386@medusainformatik.uni-erlangen.de> csbrod@medusainformatik.uni-erlangen.de (Claus Brod ) writes: > Roger.Sheppard@bbs.actrix.gen.nz writes: > > >Hyper Format by A german chap that gets on here "Brod" is i think part > >of his name, Please excuse not knowing it, but his Formater works very > >well, and has the Option to Verify, and will do PC Formats, and 11 > >sector formats, and this one works !, but don't know if it has the > >3 sector FAT option, as the Atari uses a none standard 5 sector format > >this can play havock with PC's, The Program Name that i have is > >HYPFM320.PRG, i don't know if there is a later one, also this Program > >will do 1.1 Meg and 1.2 meg Formats, with Hardware Mods, this i don't > >have the details on, but from what i gather, you speed up the clock > >to the controller ic.. > > HYPERFORMAT indeed does all these things, but it's not PD. It's part > of my book 'Scheibenkleister', therefore it can only be obtained > legally by buying the book. Just to put in a grain of salt 8-) > > You're right with your theory concerning the hardware mod for 1.1 MB > disks. It was published last year in the German computer magazine > 'ST-Computer'. In late summer 89, a friend of ours developped the > High Density solution for the ST (1.44 MB, PC-compatible disks), > and HYPERFORMAT supports these formats, too. It packs up to 21 sectors > on one track, totalling a whopping 1.7 MB on a standard 3.5" HD disk. > In Germany, several other PD programs are available that do extra > stuff with your disks; most of them also include some kind of > twister format. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Claus Brod, Am Felsenkeller 2, Things. Take. Time. > D-8772 Marktheidenfeld, West Germany (Piet Hein) > csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you for giving us more information, sorry did not know that it was not PD. Please I would like your help on another matter, I have been having Problems in getting in touch with ST-Computer, I don't think the First Address that I had was correct, I was after the info, on the Article on 'Patch as Patch Can', Six Patches for the Bugs in TOS 1.4, do you know what issue this was in. ??, the Address than I know have is ST-Computer, Heim Verlag, Heidelberger Lanstr. 194, D-61 Darmstadt, Gemany, Is this correct..?? Thank you... -- Roger W. Sheppard 85 Donovan Rd, Kapiti New Zealand...
neil@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Forsyth) (12/19/90)
In article <1990Dec17.120630.9491@vaxa.strath.ac.uk> cadp15@vaxa.strath.ac.uk writes: >Well, at the moment I have about half a dozen disks that I use daily that are >double sided, 84 tracks and 11 sector - gives me about 930 Kb. I've been >using them for about 8 months now with no problem - BUT I do use high quality >BRANDED >disks (mainly TDK and Sony), lesser quality disks just do not cope. Anything >past 10 sectors is risky, and to find out how many tracks your drive can cope >with you can (though not really recommended) tell it to format 85 tracks and >listen to the drive - when it stops going clunk after every track then you've >gone to far (ie you can format to one track less than the one you're on). > >MOST drives will happily cope with 82 track/10 sectors... Whether or not you can use 11 SPT is not up to the quality of the disk but the speed of the drive doing the writing. The slower a drive is, the more chance you have of using 11 SPT. A faster drive will screw up the data though. Using beyond 80 tracks is dangerous. I know from bitter experience because using 82 tracks trashed my drive years ago and I had to replace it. If you use beyond 80 tracks and it works with your drive, fine BUT I don't think it would be fair to give your disk to someone else and trash their drive. The use of disks formatted this way is forbidden in our ST lab for just such a reason. The maximum sensible format is 80T, 10SPT, 3SPF. +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ! DISCLAIMER:Unless otherwise stated, the above comments are entirely my own ! ! ! ! Neil Forsyth JANET: neil@uk.ac.hw.cs ! ! Dept. of Computer Science ARPA: neil@cs.hw.ac.uk ! ! Heriot-Watt University UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!neil ! ! Edinburgh, Scotland, UK "That was never 5 minutes!" ! +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
csbrod@medusainformatik.uni-erlangen.de (Claus Brod ) (12/20/90)
Roger.Sheppard@bbs.actrix.gen.nz writes: >First Address that I had was correct, I was after the info, on the >Article on 'Patch as Patch Can', Six Patches for the Bugs in TOS 1.4, >do you know what issue this was in. ??, the Address than I know have is >ST-Computer, Heim Verlag, Heidelberger Lanstr. 194, D-61 Darmstadt, >Gemany, Is this correct..?? Thank you... Redaktion ST-Computer MAXON Computer Industriestrasse 26 D-6236 Eschborn Germany > The issue of interest is ST-Computer 1/90. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Claus Brod, Am Felsenkeller 2, Things. Take. Time. D-8772 Marktheidenfeld, West Germany (Piet Hein) csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger.Sheppard@bbs.actrix.gen.nz (12/21/90)
<1990Dec18.135818.15365@actrix.gen.nz> <3397@medusainformatik.uni-erlangen.de> Sender: Followup-To: Distribution:world Organization: Actrix Information Exchange, Wellington, New Zealand Keywords: Comment-To: csbrod@medusainformatik.uni-erlangen.de In article <3397@medusainformatik.uni-erlangen.de> csbrod@medusainformatik.uni-erlangen.de (Claus Brod ) writes: > Roger.Sheppard@bbs.actrix.gen.nz writes: > >First Address that I had was correct, I was after the info, on the > >Article on 'Patch as Patch Can', Six Patches for the Bugs in TOS 1.4, > >do you know what issue this was in. ??, the Address than I know have is > >ST-Computer, Heim Verlag, Heidelberger Lanstr. 194, D-61 Darmstadt, > >Gemany, Is this correct..?? Thank you... > > Redaktion ST-Computer > MAXON Computer > Industriestrasse 26 > D-6236 Eschborn > Germany > > > > > The issue of interest is ST-Computer 1/90. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Claus Brod, Am Felsenkeller 2, Things. Take. Time. > D-8772 Marktheidenfeld, West Germany (Piet Hein) > csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I did write to a Address in Eschborn and enclosed 3 Iternational reply coupons, with also a PostFach No. obtained from the German Embassy here in Wellington New Zealand, but did not get a reply, well I don't know what to do now, I will try your Address, and see if that works Thank you, and a Merry Xmas to you... -- Roger W. Sheppard 85 Donovan Rd, Kapiti New Zealand...