davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu (02/07/91)
I would just like to take a moment to comment on an upload that someone recently posted as being on atari.archive.umich.edu. The file name is SADDAM.LZH, and it is purported to be a 'game' where one shoots an undefinable man riding on a camel. I, personally, find such a concept disgusting. It promotes a bigotted racial stereotype of Arabs. It's on the same level as video games such as the infamous 'Custer's Last Stand', where the objective was to rape as many Indian women as possible. If someone wants to write a war game based on the current strength levels in the Iraq/Saudi area, I wouldn't object. War games have a long history, and the 'units' involved are more or less accurately portrayed. Using games for the personal villification of Arabs (or any nationality), on the other hand, is just stupid. -- David Paschall-Zimbel davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu
weiner@terminator.cc.umich.edu (Jeff Weiner) (02/08/91)
In article <1991Feb7.123612.1@simvax.labmed.umn.edu> davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu writes: >I would just like to take a moment to comment on an upload that someone >recently posted as being on atari.archive.umich.edu. The file name is >SADDAM.LZH, and it is purported to be a 'game' where one shoots an undefinable >man riding on a camel. > >I, personally, find such a concept disgusting. It promotes a bigotted racial >stereotype of Arabs. It's on the same level as video games such as the >infamous 'Custer's Last Stand', where the objective was to rape as many Indian >women as possible. > >If someone wants to write a war game based on the current strength levels in >the Iraq/Saudi area, I wouldn't object. War games have a long history, and the >'units' involved are more or less accurately portrayed. Using games for the >personal villification of Arabs (or any nationality), on the other hand, is >just stupid. I'd like to state the 'unofficial' (read my) opinion of the whole thing, before it gets out of hand. The file saddam.lzh was uploaded by a trusted uploader who wanted to make this file available to anyone who would be interested in it. I don't feel it is appropriate for the moderators of an archive to state their political positions under these circumstance, so I won't bother. I'm sure each of us has our own opinions concerning the situation, but this is not the place for such discussion. The file is provided as a service to those who want it, and is not intended to degrade any person's heritage, or promote said racial bigottry. I respect your opinion David, and encourage others to voice theirs in the appropriate arenas. However, the file will stay in the archive. I would view anything else as blatent censorship, and I will have no part of that whatsoever. If anyone else has concerns about this file, please voice them directly to me weiner@terminator.cc.umich.edu or jeff_weiner@ub.cc.umich.edu. > >-- > >David Paschall-Zimbel davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu weiner -- Jeff Weiner weiner@terminator.cc.umich.edu Jeff_Weiner@ub.cc.umich.edu "Out of the way lady! RUN! Run for safety, foolish pedestrians!" -Sam and Max Atari.archive.umich.edu Co-Caretaker 167M and climbin'
jfbruno@rodan.acs.syr.edu (John Bruno) (02/08/91)
In article <1991Feb7.123612.1@simvax.labmed.umn.edu> davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu writes: >[blablabla] >I, personally, find such a concept disgusting. It promotes a bigotted racial >[blablabla] > >David Paschall-Zimbel davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu So DON'T DOWNLOAD the thing. Why don't you go burn a book or something. ---jb
carlos@garfield.cs.mun.ca (Carlos Borges) (02/09/91)
davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu writes: >I would just like to take a moment to comment on an upload that someone >recently posted as being on atari.archive.umich.edu. The file name is >SADDAM.LZH, and it is purported to be a 'game' where one shoots an undefinable >man riding on a camel. >I, personally, find such a concept disgusting. It promotes a bigotted racial >stereotype of Arabs. It's on the same level as video games such as the >infamous 'Custer's Last Stand', where the objective was to rape as many Indian >women as possible. I agree that this is a stupid reason for a game, but there are people who _will_ play & enjoy it. If you don't like the game, don't download it... nice and simple, huh? -- C. Miguel Borges |"Cyberspace. A consensual hallucination... ||| carlos@garfield.cs.mun.ca|Unthinkable complexity. Lines of light ranged ||| an630@po.cwru.edu |in the nonspace of the mind, clusters and / | \ ad040@yfn.ysu.edu |constellations of data. Like city lights, receding..."
bobw@hpsad.HP.COM (Bob Waltenspiel) (02/10/91)
David Paschall-Zimbel writes: >>I, personally, find such a concept disgusting. It promotes a bigotted >>racial stereotype of Arabs. It's on the same level as video games >>such as the infamous 'Custer's Last Stand', where the objective was to >>rape as many Indian women as possible. Although I agree with David that this 'game' file is objectionable because it promotes racial bigotry, I don't think he is advocating censoring the file. It appears to me that he's trying point out how such a file can be offensive to some people in much the same manner as the 'Custer's Last Stand' file is. Glorifying violence against an 'undefinable man riding a camel' can be seen by some as lumping all Arabs into a group that should be shot at. Some people in the USA are acting this way, as can be shown by the violence being perpetrating against non-Iragi Arabs during this very stressful time. And yet, Americans are losing their lives in an effort to save the lives of Arabs from Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. That's the only reason can I see why we're fighting. By promoting and distributing such a 'game', race hatred might continue. This is what David is objecting to. Thanks for being sensitive, David. I hope that most people will realize this and ignore the file. Jeff Weiner writes: >I respect your opinion David, and encourage others to voice theirs in the >appropriate arenas. However, the file will stay in the archive. >I would view anything else as blatent censorship, and I will have no part >of that whatsoever. I appreciate this, Jeff, as your position is to allow access to all Atari software, not to choose what to limit. The person doing the uploading can censor what they upload, just as a book publisher can censor what it publishes. We do it now because what is available on the archive now is far less than the total available Atari software. Jeff, is there a limit to the amount of space available for the Atari archive? It seems that at sometime we will have to choose what is stored there. Will we have to someday 'censor' what is kept at the archive in the name of 'disk space'? -Bob P.S. Yes, I know, there are appropriate groups for political discussions, and this isn't one of them. ----------------------------------- ----------------------------------------- | Bob Waltenspiel | AT&T: (707) 794-3091 (Telnet: 794-3091) | | ATE Software Team | e-mail: bobw@hpsad.HP.COM | | HP Signal Analysis Division | HPDesk: Bob WALTENSPIEL/HP5300/A0 | | 1212 Valley House Dr. | HP Mailstop: 1UR-M | | Rohnert Park, CA 94928-4999 | GEnie: B.WALTENSPIE | ----------------------------------- ----------------------------------------- "Maybe this is heaven." -Ray in the film _Field of Dreams_
davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu (02/11/91)
In article <1991Feb8.014040.2663@terminator.cc.umich.edu>, weiner@terminator.cc.umich.edu (Jeff Weiner) writes: >>I, personally, find such a concept disgusting. > > I respect your opinion David, and encourage others to voice theirs in the > appropriate arenas. However, the file will stay in the archive. > I would view anything else as blatent censorship, and I will have no part > of that whatsoever. Perhaps it would be best if people actually look at what I wrote, rather than what they want to read into the message. Nowhere did I state (or suggest) that the file in question be REMOVED from the archive. I do feel, however, that even computer games deserve some forms of comment. One does not turn off one's moral and ethical standards while sitting at the computer. I doubt that many people reading messages in this forum would have even THOUGHT about the stereotyping involved in games such as the file in question. From the responses so far, I guess any condemnation of a computer game concept is equivalent to calling for the burning of books or the establishment of churches. I find it disturbing that people are unwilling to face the possible racism (or sexism) in a computer program. -- David Paschall-Zimbel davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu