djd@rosemary.cs.reading.ac.uk (David Dawkins) (01/14/91)
In article <64806.278dda66@pttrnl.nl> vdlaan@pttrnl.nl writes: > > Greetings, > >I want to buy a MODULA2 compiler for my ST and would like to hear >opinions about the available compilers from people who own one. >I would like the compiler to have a very good programming enviroment. > > Thanks in advance, > > Walter van der Laan > NET: W_vdLaan@pttrnl.nl IMHO, I think you'd be hard-pushed to beat HiSoft's FTL Modula-2. The editor allows you to compile/link so you don't have to go through the edit-save-quit-compile-link-crash( :-) )-edit.. etc. Also, you get a very comprehensive set of modules, along with source code. I own the PC version (and made _EXTENSIVE_ use of it), and have also used the ST version. I can't comment on the competition, as I haven't used any of it !! ` (There is however a 'complete Modula-2 system' sitting on Lancaster PDSOFT archive, which is fairly good - shareware, I believe. I think it's called ANAMOD68. ) Hope this helps. David Dawkins. djd@uk.ac.reading.cs.ksg
wolfram@cip-s06.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (Wolfram Roesler) (01/25/91)
vdlaan@pttrnl.nl writes: >I want to buy a MODULA2 compiler for my ST The very best M2 compiler is a C compiler: faster, easier, better. Use the following: #define BEGIN { #define END } #define INC(x) (x)++ #define DEC(x) (x)-- #define PROCEDURE #define MODULE If your M2 programs don't compile with that, buy a book named "The C programming language" and have "rm -f modula2" executed inside your cerebral data base. You will then see things getting a lot better. :-) Greetings! Okami-san
seitz@netcom.UUCP (Matthew Seitz) (01/27/91)
In article <wolfram.664808854@cip-s06> wolfram@cip-s06.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (Wolfram Roesler) writes: > >The very best M2 compiler is a C compiler: faster, easier, better. Oh, please. C is not inherently faster than M2, it depends on the compiler. C is quicker to write, but harder to debug due to weak type checking, no bounds checking, and a shorthand syntax that makes typos easy to make and hard to detect. C is better for some applications, M2 for others. For a discussion of the merits of each language, see comp.lang.c and comp.lang.modula-2. A blanket statement like "C is better than M2" is like saying "a hammer is better than a screwdriver". I've used both and I prefer using M2. Your mileage may vary. Each has features the other lacks. -- Matthew Seitz seitz@netcom.UUCP netcom!seitz
entropy@ai.mit.edu (entropy) (01/29/91)
In article <11688@pt.cs.cmu.edu> redmond@ius1.cs.cmu.edu (Redmond English) writes:
[ argument about whether modula 2 or C is better ]
Please take this to alt.religion.computers, where it belongs.
Thank you,
The Net Policewarwick@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au (Warwick Allison) (01/29/91)
In <11688@pt.cs.cmu.edu> redmond@ius1.cs.cmu.edu (Redmond English) writes: >In article <22046@netcom.UUCP> seitz@netcom.UUCP (Matthew Seitz) writes: >>In article <wolfram.664808854@cip-s06> wolfram@cip-s06.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (Wolfram Roesler) writes: > >> > >>The very best M2 compiler is a C compiler: faster, easier, better. > > > >Oh, please. C is not inherently faster than M2, it depends on the compiler. > >I've used both and I prefer using M2. > > >In my experience, M2 is *much* better than C when engaging in a >multi-person project. I have to agree: and add that M2 is *far* better than C when you intent to write a lot of software, because of the inherent modularity that allows you to write a module, then ignore its detains and just USE it! -- ________________________________________________________ This .signature intentionally left blank ________________________________________________________
pete@minster.york.ac.uk (01/31/91)
I've used 3 M2 compilers on the Atari ST over the past few years.
I can only wholeheartedly recommend one of them.
The Ana-Systems PD compiler just DOESN'T seem to work on my system, and
even if it did the library appears to be very sparse indeed.
I have used an old version of the TDI (Modula-2 Software) compiler, which was
OK but rather idiosyncratic - it used a very weird desktop environment
and needed a DA to control it. However it had great documentation and
good libraries. Don't know if it's still available though.
Finally, the one I can recommend, is the HiSoft/FTL Modula-2 system -
this is really quite neat; you get sources to the whole library, you get
a decent GEM editor, a command line shell and all kinds of utils. It
generates fast, small code, the library supports everything, and it's QUICK!
Jumping between the editor and compiler is easy, and with the libs. and
linker on the [excellent] bomb-proof Ramdisk the system is really fast!
The documentation is less than brilliant, but more than adequate. It was
also reasonably cheap -- I paid sixty pounds for it in '88. I still use
it on a regular basis; it's at least as nice an environment as Laser C
in my opinion.
-Pete
Pete Fenelon | JANET: pete@uk.ac.york.minster
Dept. of Computer Science | Internet:pete@minster.york.ac.uk
University of York | UUCP: {the world}!ukc!minster!pete
York Y01 5DD ENGLAND | others: pete%minster.york.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
Tel: +44 904 432714 | ``If X is bad, imagine what Y and Z will be like''silvert@cs.dal.ca (Bill Silvert) (02/01/91)
In article <665330668.2246@minster.york.ac.uk> pete@SoftEng.UUCP (pete) writes: >I've used 3 M2 compilers on the Atari ST over the past few years. >I can only wholeheartedly recommend one of them. > >I have used an old version of the TDI (Modula-2 Software) compiler, which was >OK but rather idiosyncratic - it used a very weird desktop environment >and needed a DA to control it. However it had great documentation and >good libraries. Don't know if it's still available though. TDI vanished several years ago. I had their development system (version 3 I think). Unfortunately, some of the bugs in version 1 that got fixed in version 2 reappeared in version 3, so a lot of my code broke. It had some nice features and was reasonably fast if you compiled in a RAM disk, but due to lots of disk access it was slow compiling to disk. -- William Silvert, Habitat Ecology Division, Bedford Inst. of Oceanography P. O. Box 1006, Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CANADA B2Y 4A2. Tel. (902)426-1577 UUCP=..!{uunet|watmath}!dalcs!biomel!bill BITNET=bill%biomel%dalcs@dalac InterNet=bill%biomel@cs.dal.ca
pegram@kira.UUCP (Robert B. Pegram) (02/03/91)
From article <1991Feb1.151450.4419@cs.dal.ca>, by silvert@cs.dal.ca (Bill Silvert): > In article <665330668.2246@minster.york.ac.uk> pete@SoftEng.UUCP (pete) writes: >>I've used 3 M2 compilers on the Atari ST over the past few years. >>I can only wholeheartedly recommend one of them. >> >>I have used an old version of the TDI (Modula-2 Software) compiler, which was >>OK but rather idiosyncratic - it used a very weird desktop environment >>and needed a DA to control it. However it had great documentation and >>good libraries. Don't know if it's still available though. > > TDI vanished several years ago. I had their development system (version > 3 I think). Unfortunately, some of the bugs in version 1 that got fixed > in version 2 reappeared in version 3, so a lot of my code broke. It had > some nice features and was reasonably fast if you compiled in a RAM > disk, but due to lots of disk access it was slow compiling to disk. > > > -- > William Silvert, Habitat Ecology Division, Bedford Inst. of Oceanography The ads that came with my copy of Lattice C (ported by HiSoft), indicate that HiSoft took TDI's orphan over as well as Lattice's (SAS owns Lattice now). Any comments from over the pond? How's the current version? Bob Pegram pegram@griffin.uvm.edu or ...!uvm-gen!pegram
4203_5132@uwovax.uwo.ca (02/12/91)
In article <wolfram.664808854@cip-s06>, wolfram@cip-s06.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (Wolfram Roesler) writes: > vdlaan@pttrnl.nl writes: > > The very best M2 compiler is a C compiler: faster, easier, better. Use the > following: > > #define BEGIN { > #define END } > #define INC(x) (x)++ > #define DEC(x) (x)-- > #define PROCEDURE > #define MODULE > This won't make the people in comp.specification very happy, indeed! But seriously, is there a Modula compiler for the ST that has a complete library of modules (and when I say complete, I mean all of the ones named in Programming in Modula-2 by Wirth, specfically the lowlevel interface and the multi-programming/resource sharing modules)? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 4th year Applied Math/Computer Science | University of Western Ontario | "Put a cute quote here" London, Canada | -anonymous semple@uwovax.uwo.ca | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
pete@minster.york.ac.uk (02/19/91)
In article <1991Feb11.192506.8576@uwovax.uwo.ca> 4203_5132@uwovax.uwo.ca writes: > > But seriously, is there a Modula compiler for the ST that has a >complete library of modules (and when I say complete, I mean all of the >ones named in Programming in Modula-2 by Wirth, specfically the lowlevel >interface and the multi-programming/resource sharing modules)? > Well, the M2 compiler I trust most is the ST version of the FTL system (marketed in the UK by HiSoft). It does need some minor library surgery to make it 100% Wirthlike (there were bugs in PROCESSES as supplied, but they're trivial to fix), but you do get _full sources_ to the whole library and loads of interesting utilities, along with great documentation. I bought it about 3 years ago, and it cost sixty pounds -- I don't know if it's still being actively marketed anywhere, but it's worth looking for, because it's a great environment (comes with its own editor, shell and bombproof ramdisk, all of which are useful for other things!) and the compiler generates quick, small code. An excellent way to develop software on the ST - almost as friendly and effective as Laser C. Pete Fenelon -- Pete Fenelon |JANET: pete@uk.ac.york.minster Dept. of Computer Science|Internet:pete@minster.york.ac.uk University of York |UUCP: {the world}!ukc!minster!pete York Y01 5DD ENGLAND |others: pete%minster.york.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk Tel: +44 904 432714 |Beer of the week:Mitchell's Single Malt Winter Warmer