thaanuj@prism.CS.ORST.EDU (John Thaanum) (03/07/91)
I just got my syquest w/advantage+ system hooked up and running well. I have one small problem, though. It **never** boots correctly the first time. After a long wait, I get on of the following: floppy turned on: desktop with just a: and b: icons floppy turned off: blank desktop with just a menu bar When I hit reset, it boots from c: just fine and desktop appears exactly the way I want it. This isn't a horrible problem, but for all the dough I just shelled out, I want it to boot on the first try on powerup. Other info: Old 520ST w/TOS 1.4. (Almost) empty auto folder on c: (all I have is UIS III since memory is a little tight right now). If this is normal and expected, or wierd and a sign of trouble, please let me know. Thanks in advance, John Thaanum thaanuj@prism.cs.orst.edu
REEVES@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Terry Reeves) (03/07/91)
The problem you are encountering with the non-booting of your SYQUEST is the
exact same problem that I have with my Quantum Pro 80S. According to the
documentation that comes with the ICD Advantage+, some high performance SCSI
drives have a problem auto-booting the first time. There is no problem with
the second or later boot. The solution is to format a floppy disk and put the
program COLDSTRT.PRG (provided on the diskette from ICD) in the AUTO folder of
the floppy. This will cause the computer to reboot until the hard disk is
ready, almost always the second time for me. It takes a few moments longer, but
you don't have to hit the reset button.
Terry
Disclaimer: The above are my opinions and are not related to the official
policies of SLAC, Stanford University, or the DOE.jfbruno@rodan.acs.syr.edu (John Bruno) (03/07/91)
In article <1991Mar06.205849.23089@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> you write: >I just got my syquest w/advantage+ system hooked up and running well. I >have one small problem, though. It **never** boots correctly the first time. >After a long wait, I get on of the following: Same as what I got. I noticed the same problem, and I think it works ok if you stick a floppy (any Atari formatted floppy) in drive A and THEN boot, so try this first... > > floppy turned on: desktop with just a: and b: icons > floppy turned off: blank desktop with just a menu bar > >When I hit reset, it boots from c: just fine and desktop appears exactly >the way I want it. > >This isn't a horrible problem, but for all the dough I just shelled out, I >want it to boot on the first try on powerup. > >Other info: Old 520ST w/TOS 1.4. (Almost) empty auto folder on c: (all I >have is UIS III since memory is a little tight right now). I have an old 1040ST w/TOS1.4. I use a floppy in drive A that has a boot sector program on it (disks w/auto-booting boot sectors will force a boot from floppy w/o the hard drive. What this program does is wait for the connected hard drive to spin up and then boot from it. It ALWAYS boots fine the first time for me now. Sorry I don't remember the name of the program, but I'm pretty sure it's on terminator.cc.umich.edu (available via FTP). Check the /atari/diskutils folder for something that sounds ... whoa, hang on, I just found a file list for terminator. Try the files: /atari/diskutils/duck31.arc That's the only one I see.. Try it and let me know how it goes! ---jb > >If this is normal and expected, or wierd and a sign of trouble, please let >me know. > >Thanks in advance, >John Thaanum thaanuj@prism.cs.orst.edu
ZUR072@DMSWWU1C.BITNET (Ulrich Kuehn) (03/07/91)
The problems with booting from harddisk after power-on have their origin in SCSI (i suppose, youre using a SCSI-HD): some newer drives want to get a reset-signal after power-up, so when you turn on your Atari, it cant read the HDs rootsector, but after a reset it does well. Ive got that problem, too, with my ST157N, but I can stand it.
boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd) (03/08/91)
In article <91066.115758ZUR072@DMSWWU1C.BITNET>, ZUR072@DMSWWU1C.BITNET (Ulrich Kuehn) writes: >The problems with booting from harddisk after power-on have their origin >in SCSI (i suppose, youre using a SCSI-HD): some newer drives want to get >a reset-signal after power-up, so when you turn on your Atari, it cant read >the HDs rootsector, but after a reset it does well. Ive got that problem, too, >with my ST157N, but I can stand it. Jeez, I thought everyone was doing this the same way I am. Here is a solution for this problem, and it allows you (matter of fact, requires) to turn on both computer and hard disk at the same time. Get a copy of both sleep.prg and coldboot.tos (the ICD one). Format a blank disk, create an auto folder and put sleep in first, then coldboot. Change the name of sleep.prg to sleep0x.prg, where x is roughly the time it takes for your disk to spin up (try about 5 secs). Then reboot your computer. Sleep will hold for x seconds, then continue, thus running coldboot and rebooting your machine once (as opposed to many times with just coldboot). You should experiment with the seconds value. Then just always use this disk when you boot with your hard disk. The disk is a handy place to put a backup of your FAT, or any programs that need to run from drive A. You can also install the "protect" bootsector using VKILLER, and automatically protect your machine from viruses. -- ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- Mickey R. Boyd | "It's amazing how much growing up FSU Computer Science | resembles being too tired." Technical Support Group | email: boyd@fsucs.cs.fsu.edu | - Heinlein ---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
sytang@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Shoou-yu tang) (03/08/91)
Did you let the hard drive warm up a few minute before the ST is turn on? If the hard drive is not ready when ST start to boot up, it will not see the hard drive and therefore would not talk to the hard drive any more. So turn on thhe hard drive first and wait for a few minute then turn on the ST. Tang sytang@lamar.colostate.edu
george@electro.com (George Reimer) (03/09/91)
In article <1991Mar06.205849.23089@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> thaanuj@prism.CS.ORST.EDU (John Thaanum) writes: >I just got my syquest w/advantage+ system hooked up and running well. I >have one small problem, though. It **never** boots correctly the first time. >After a long wait, I get on of the following: > > floppy turned on: desktop with just a: and b: icons > floppy turned off: blank desktop with just a menu bar > >When I hit reset, it boots from c: just fine and desktop appears exactly >the way I want it. > On our supra system we must turn on the hard drive first and let it come up to speed ( 1-2 seconds ) before energizing the ST. Other wise if the ST checks it's hard disk port and finds nothing there . -- "I almost think that in certain cases yes, and in others, no....." George egroeG Reimer remieR
bill@mwca.UUCP (Bill Sheppard) (03/09/91)
In article <91066.115758ZUR072@DMSWWU1C.BITNET> ZUR072@DMSWWU1C.BITNET (Ulrich Kuehn) writes: >The problems with booting from harddisk after power-on have their origin >in SCSI (i suppose, youre using a SCSI-HD): some newer drives want to get >a reset-signal after power-up, so when you turn on your Atari, it cant read >the HDs rootsector, but after a reset it does well. Ive got that problem, too, >with my ST157N, but I can stand it. I encountered the same problem with my Micropolis 1375 - the guys at BMS were very helpful in diagnosing the problem, a new PROM from Micropolis (no charge) solved the problem. Seems that Macs exhibit the same characteristic, but if I understood properly it could be easily solved if TOS were to do a SCSI reset prior to attempted booting. Perhaps a floppy boot sector program could be written to do this? Wouldn't add any time, since the boot sector always gets read anyway... -- ############################################################################## # Bill Sheppard -- bills@microware.com -- {uunet,sun}!mcrware!mwca!bill # # Microware Systems Corporation --- OS-9: Seven generations beyond OS/2!! # ######Opinions expressed are my own, though you'd be wise to adopt them!######
scale@abode.wciu.edu (Luis Outumuro) (03/09/91)
Hi John, About your booting from the Syquest when you first turn your system on. The Syquest mechanism takes 20 seconds to come up to full speed when you first turn it on; but your computer is trying to acknowledge the Syquest before the Syquest is ready. Your Syquest has a red/amber busy light, it also has a green ready light; turn on the power to the Syquest and wait the 20 seconds for the ready light to stay on, then turn your computer on. This should solve the problem. If you like to use one switch to power your entire system up with, put a program like COLDBOOT.PRG in the AUTO folder on the boot floppy. This will cause the system to reboot until the Syquest is ready. I hope this helps. Bye............. Luis -- """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Luis Mark Outumuro III | "Well... you're damned if you do, Computer Office Products 818/813-1051 | and you're damned if you don't!" Infoline 818/813-1053 | - Bart Simpson, 1990...
ljdickey@watmath.waterloo.edu (L.J.Dickey) (03/12/91)
A lot of helpful solutions have been posted to the problems mentioned about booting with a SCSI device. In November last year I wrote this little article that I thought everybody would remember. I guess we have some new readers. ============================================================================ "Baby Ugly Duckling" by Larry Rymal and "HDWBOOT" by Jelske Kloppenburg A Review by Lee Dickey The problem When I turn on my MEGA ST2 and my ICD hard drive at the same time, the computer boots from the floppy, and not from the hard drive, because it takes a few seconds for the hard drive to make itself ready for use, and this is after the computer itself is ready to boot. Thus, if I start my system by turning on on my computer and my hard drive at the same time, the computer boots up from the floppy drive, and not from the hard drive, and I can not make use of the programs and files I have stored on the hard drive. The easy solution Of course, the simplest solution to this problem is to turn on the hard drive first, wait the necessary 15 seconds or so until the hard drive is ready, and then turn on the computer. This way, the software supplied by my drive manufacturer is used during the boot. A deeper problem Maybe you have a setup where you want to flip one big switch to turn on everything at once. Or maybe you like to run your system unattended, like with a bulletin board, and you want your system to re-start in the event of a power interruption, or maybe you are as impatient as I am and you just can't bear standing there waiting those 15 seconds or so between turning on the hard drive and turning on the main unit. The hardware solution One hardware solution is to have a sequencer do the job. Before he wrote his program, DUCK31, Larry Rymal used to make such a sequencer, called the Ugly Duckling Hardware Sequencer. I have never seen one of these things, but I imagine that it was some sort of box with one switch on the front and two (or more?) outlets on the back, one outlet to be used for the hard drive, which comes on right away, and the other, with a delay circuit built in, for the computer. I guess that Larry got tired of working with his soldering iron, and had plenty of time to think about a software solution. Software solutions The first software alternative that I found was Baby Ugly Duckling 3.1 by Larry Rymal, which appeared on the net in January of 1990. I have used it quite often, especially when I want to turn on all the switches at about the same time. The setup works this way: (1) I turn on everything in my system at once: the monitor, the computer, the drive, everything. (2) My computer tries to read from the hard drive and finds nobody home, because the computer is ready to go before the drive is. (3) My computer boots from drive A:, it finds the folder A:\AUTO\ , and the program there, DUCK31.PRG, is executed. (4) A message appears on the screen and there is a 15 second pause. (5) Meanwhile, the hard drive finishes its startup sequence, and is ready for use when it is next polled by the computer. (6) After the 15 second delay period is over, DUCK31 issues a command to re-boot the system. I am not sure if it is a "warm boot" or a "cold boot", but I suspect that it is a cold boot. This time during the boot procedure the hard drive gets noticed and my files in C:\AUTO\ are executed. Last month, I found another program, HDWBOOT.TOS, by Jelske Kloppenburg, which provides a second software alternative. The operation goes like this: I turn on all the switches of my system, just like before, and the computer uses a program on the boot sector of a floppy in my floppy drive. The program in the boot sector simply polls the hard drive until it finds it ready, and then it gives the command to re-boot the system. To install the program on the floppy, one simply runs the program HDWBOOT.TOS. Negatives aspects As software goes, DUCK31 has too many options; some some of them are intended for the debugging phase, and should have been turned off or masked before the program was shipped. My MEGA ST2 is subject to a "double boot" problem. Often, when I turn my system on, the computer goes through two boot cycles, whether I use one of these programs or not. This means, sadly, that sometimes I get as many as four boot sequences happening: two of them from the floppy, and then two more happen from the hard drive. I don't know why this doubling happens, nor do I know any way to stop it. I suspect that it has nothing to do with DUCK31 or HDWBOOT, but has everything to do with TOS 1.2, the version of the operating system that I am running. There have been times when I have wanted to avoid running the DUCK31 program. Of course I could slip the disk out of the computer, and put another disk in. But that would be too easy. I know how to disable a program in the AUTO folder: change its name. For instance the program "A:\AUTO\DUCK31.PRG" can be renamed to "A:\AUTO\DUCK31\PR". However, I don't know how to disable a program in the boot sector. I suppose I could use a virus detector to write over the boot sector, but this is destructive, and I would have to re-run the program HDWBOOT.TOS, to re-create the boot sector. Where to get DUCK31 and HDWBOOT I got both programs from the Atari Binaries news groups on usenet, but both should be available from the ftp archive servers "terminator" and "panarthea". Lee Dickey ljdickey@math.waterloo.edu 1990-11-04 -- Prof L.J. Dickey, Faculty of Mathematics, U of Waterloo, Canada N2L 3G1 Internet: ljdickey@watmath.waterloo.edu UUCP: ljdickey@watmath.UUCP ..!uunet!watmath!ljdickey X.400: ljdickey@watmath.UWaterloo.ca