[comp.sys.atari.st] HEY!!!!!!

mc4c+@andrew.cmu.edu (Mark Choi) (03/10/91)

 O.K., I'm back on my own account and rarein' to go.
	About the microsoft/apple suit. As I remember it, the suit between
Apple and DRI was over the grow box that expanded out of the disk and
folder icons after they were opened. Apple said that they were a "look
and feel" violation (can Mickey Rourke sue Bruce Willis for look and
feel, can Sean Penn sue madonna's new boyfriend?) DRI simply took the
grow boxes out of the code, and the case became moot. Apple does not
stand a snowball in hells chance of winning this case. It is basically
trumped up on the overlapping windows issue. There are so many
overlapping window GUI's out there, and even XEROX was thinking about it
before Apple ever got out there, that Apple can never prove propriety.
The only reason that other systems didn't use it before were memory and
speed constraints. Enter the mid eighties and the digital revolution,
and everyone can do it. Apple and Michael Milken are the epitome of what
can go wrong (IMHO) in a capitalist economy.
	For those who asked, the UT, a mind creation of David Small, is the
hypothetical successor to the TT (ST, TT, UT...). It is the box that
Small feels that Atari should have made the first time. It is basically
in line with my feelings, and those of many others here, it would seem,
that TT stands for Too little, Too late. Who wants vanilla VGA? Wasn't
the Atari supposed to be a graphics machine. MIDI people are bailing to
the Mac left right and center. And MIDI is such a small market anyway,
so trying to base your market on such a small niche is foolish. Sound,
sure DMA sound is nice, but so what? The hardware can do wonders if we
bag TOS and get a real operating system. TOS is just MesS-DOS, with some
of the bugs taken out. This was fine in 1985, but Atari, welcome to
1991. Atari should start form the ground up, like they did in '85, and
design the ultimate multimedia machine, based around a 030, 88xxx, or a
RISC processor, from the ground up. They didn't make an enhanced 800.
They made the ST. They need to make the MACH 5 (yes, you know it), not
the TT. Who is gonna buy a TT? No one who does not already own an ST.
The TT will be an ST upgrade. So the abysmally small market share that
they have now will be reduced even further. The least they could have
done is liscenced flex-OS from DRI, along with X-GEM. AT least then we
would have had a real operating system. Why is there so many posts about
MiNT, g++, gulam, os-9 etc.? Because TOS bites. I loved my Atari when I
got it years ago, and I still think that it beats the pants off MS-DOG
base systems, and the like, but what can I do with it? Where are all the
great word processors, that aren't so slow that you can make dinner
while you leave a brick on your mouse button to get the screen to
scroll? Where are the new multimedia spreadsheets that will give LDW (a
great program) some competition? Were are the SQL databases?
Photorealistic 32 bit graphics, video, cheap peripherals even? Atari has
to drop this "Power without the Price" garbage (especially since their
new machines are double what they should be) if they are not going to
give anybody any real power. They can quote Mac and IBM prices til they
are blue in the face, but that misses the point. Atari is not competing
with IBM, they are competing with the clone makers, so to compare Atari
prices to IBM prices is a whitewash. They can compare their prices to
Apple, but Apple has the software, the developers, the third party
hardware, the expansion, and the stability of the company to at least
justify part of their ridiculous prices. What does Atari have? A great
machine? Not enough. I want a great machine that I can use. A "great"
machine has three parts: the machine itself, the operating system and
environment, and the software and third party hardware base. Atari only
scores a 1. From what I have read of, and from Allan Pratt, I like him a
lot, and wish he were in charge back in the mid eighties. But even
someone as talented and driven as he will get Atari anywhere unless the
company as a whole shapes up its act. 
	If Lexicor's product doesn't disappear in a puff of vapor(ware), and
someone does actually do the impossible, and have a shotgun wedding for
the TT and the Toaster, I would think there might be some life in the
old beast yet. Otherwise, gang way, I'm takin my STacy, GCR and
SuperCharger and jumpin' ship!

mathew@mwowm.mantis.co.uk (mathew) (03/13/91)

In <kbqIqTK00WAyMUApUM@andrew.cmu.edu>, Mark Choi writes:
>bag TOS and get a real operating system. TOS is just MesS-DOS, with some
>of the bugs taken out.

Actually, it's CP/M 68K with some of the bugs taken out and some features
added.

>                                                Where are all the
>great word processors, that aren't so slow that you can make dinner
>while you leave a brick on your mouse button to get the screen to
>scroll?

Europe. Try some of the German-written text editors and word processors.
I use Tempus 2; not a word processor, but it has word-wrap (which is all I
need for TeX) and scrolls smoothly at 40 lines per second. I gather that
the authors have written a fully-featured word processor which is similarly
speedy.


mathew

ekrimen@ecst.csuchico.edu (Ed Krimen) (03/15/91)

In article <A0b276og@mwowm.mantis.co.uk> mathew@mwowm.mantis.co.uk writes:
>In <kbqIqTK00WAyMUApUM@andrew.cmu.edu>, Mark Choi writes:
>>                                                Where are all the
>>great word processors, that aren't so slow that you can make dinner
>>while you leave a brick on your mouse button to get the screen to
>>scroll?
>
>Europe. Try some of the German-written text editors and word processors.
>I use Tempus 2; not a word processor, but it has word-wrap (which is all I
>need for TeX) and scrolls smoothly at 40 lines per second. I gather that
>the authors have written a fully-featured word processor which is similarly
>speedy.
>
ST Informer had a screen shot and small description about Tempus Word in their
rumor column.  The screen shot showed a line of text in a 'wave' pattern,
instead of a straight line.  (This was in an issue from a couple of months
ago.)  I think the manual and the commands are all in German. :^(

Nonetheless, Tempus is FAST!!  I think there's a demo of it at atari.archive.
umich.edu under the filename TEMPUSDM.LZH.  Don't know which directory.

-- 
         Ed Krimen  ...............................................
   |||   Video Production Major, California State University, Chico
   |||   INTERNET: ekrimen@ecst.csuchico.edu  FREENET: al661 
  / | \  SysOp, Fuji BBS: 916-894-1261        FIDONET: 1:119/4.0

boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd) (03/15/91)

In <kbqIqTK00WAyMUApUM@andrew.cmu.edu>, Mark Choi writes:
>                                                Where are all the
>great word processors, that aren't so slow that you can make dinner
>while you leave a brick on your mouse button to get the screen to
>scroll?

There are great, fast, powerful programs out there for the ST.  The problem
is that there is also a lot of crap, and product support is frequently ripped
out from under you.  If you pick carefully, you will not have to put up with
slow software.  The purchase of a software accelerator can greatly increase 
the usability of most applications.  I know what it is like to get burned, but
since I started subscribing to Current Notes and reading comp.sys.atari.st,
I have not purchased a lemon.  As one netter said, "this newsgroup is worth 
a million bucks . . ."   
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