mc4c+@andrew.cmu.edu (Mark Choi) (03/13/91)
While on the subject of mice, drunk or otherwise, has anyone noticed that when you try to move the mouse pointer to quickly in GEM, the mouse starts to accelerate in the intended direction, then does an aboutface, and heads in the other direction, and keeps doing this until you slow down. This is quite annoying. I keep forgetting to check it in Mac mode to see if it is GEM or the hardware controller. Probably lame GEM. I have seen this on both my MEGA 4, and my STacy, as well as my dad's MEGA 2. Hmm....
nico@cs.ruu.nl (Nico Verwer) (03/14/91)
In <UbrPw_a00VIFA3Q2YN@andrew.cmu.edu> mc4c+@andrew.cmu.edu (Mark Choi) writes: >when you try to move the mouse pointer to quickly in GEM, the mouse >starts to accelerate in the intended direction, then does an aboutface, >and heads in the other direction, and keeps doing this until you slow >down. This is quite annoying. I keep forgetting to check it in Mac mode >to see if it is GEM or the hardware controller. Probably lame GEM. I The problem is in the mouse itself. For both directions, there are two optical detectors. If you move the mouse, a small wheel with holes in it rotates along these detectors. If you move, say, left, then first detector A will detect a hole, and some time after that detector B. The time between the two pulses is determined by the speed of the movement. If you move the mouse to the right, first detector B will give a pulse, then detector A. A B detectors v v ##################wheel #O####O####O####O#holes Thus, pulses come in `packages' AB (left) or BA (right). But if you move too fast to the left, the circuitry in the mouse will combine the B pulse with the A pulse of the next `package', which results in a BA (right) package. This is similar to the stoboscope-effect which you sometimes see on TV: A rotating wheel appears to rotate in the wrong direction. The only solution is: Buy a better mouse. -- Nico Verwer | nico@cs.ruu.nl Dept. of Computer Science, University of Utrecht | phone: +31 30 533921 p.o. box 80.089, 3508 TB Utrecht, The Netherlands | fax: +31 30 513791
mspacek@fquest.fidonet.org (Mark Spacek) (03/16/91)
nico@cs.ruu.nl (Nico Verwer) writes: > The problem is in the mouse itself. > The only solution is: Buy a better mouse. I don't think I agree that the only solution is to buy a better mouse. I tried it with my mouse to see if what you said was true. Well, it was, but I didn't know about it previously. Why? Because I use a mouse accelerator program in my auto folder and have NEVER had to jerk my mouse that violently to get it to respond properly. So, I would submit that you might not need to buy a better mouse if you get a good mouse speeder upper program.... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The following opinions are my own and not those of anyone else who might be registered on fquest.fidonet.org. All flames can be sent to alt.flames since we don't read that here. ----------------------------------------------------------------------
boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd) (03/17/91)
nico@cs.ruu.nl (Nico Verwer) writes: > The problem is in the mouse itself. > The only solution is: Buy a better mouse. Well, let me point something out. I have a buddy that bought a nice ST mouse (not made by atari, I cannot remember the manufacturer), and we noticed a slight problem. The dpi tracking speed of mice has become a marketing buzzword (i.e. "hey, ours tracks at 400dpi, wow"). Well, that means that for some constant distance the mouse moves, a higher dpi mouse outputs more values for that movement (thus resulting in the mouse pointer moving farther). You commonly see "you don't need an accelerator with this mouse". However, there is a problem. With his mouse (400dpi), the pointer did seem to move at about twice the speed of a normal atari mouse, and if you moved the mouse quickly (as an experience desktop user would), the hardware handling the mouse values would apparently get overloaded and poop out. What would happen is that I would move the mouse around doing normal file operations, and occasionally the mouse pointer would just kind of 'freeze'. By experimentation, the speed of movement was determined to be the culprit. Thus, my friend now has need of a mouse decellerator to be able to use his nifty mouse (and this may not work either). To sum up, don't be impressed with large dpi values. In fact, stay away from them! I wish to note that "moving the mouse fast" was not artificially induce, just my normal operating speed when I get cooking. You can even overload the Atari mouse if you really sling it around (not recommended). The point here is that the higher dpi mice don't need to be moved nearly as fast to get this to happen. Also, as per the "better mouse" argument, I would like to note that I have one of the newer Atari mice (with the nylon rollers and the round ball door on the bottom), and it has performed flawlessly for 2 years. The older Atari mice were prone to 'wear out' quickly, but the new ones seem solid and reliable (hey, I hve really given this one a workout). -- ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- Mickey R. Boyd | "It's amazing how much growing up FSU Computer Science | resembles being too tired." Technical Support Group | email: boyd@fsucs.cs.fsu.edu | - Heinlein ---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
warwick@cs.uq.oz.au (Warwick Allison) (03/18/91)
mspacek@fquest.fidonet.org (Mark Spacek) writes: >nico@cs.ruu.nl (Nico Verwer) writes: >> The problem is in the mouse itself. >> The only solution is: Buy a better mouse. > [ I ] have NEVER had to jerk my mouse that violently to get it to respond > properly. So, I would submit that you might not need to buy a better mouse > if you get a good mouse speeder upper program.... Yes. I use the Mouse accelerator that comes with GEMINI. IT IS NOT A MOUSE `DOUBLER'. Those things are horrible - they just make the mouse move two pixels rather than 1 on each pulse, so the mouse jerks around the screen. The Mouse accelerator I use goes at normal speed when you move the mouse around, but if you move it, say twice as fast, it steps up the speed and travels (say) four times as fast. Really neat. Warwick. -- _--_|\ warwick@cs.uq.oz.au / * <-- Computer Science Department, \_.--._/ University of Queensland, v AUSTRALIA.
mc4c+@andrew.cmu.edu (Mark Choi) (03/18/91)
As per all the replies to my original post, all very interesting, but academic, as I have a STacy, and us the trackball more than a mouse. I can get it ot overload during normal operation (I do move the bugger FAST, I know what I want to do!), but it is even worse with a trackball, as the normal operation procedure is to flick the ball and let it fly. This results in a lot of "hurry up and wait" sessions, as the mouse goes nowhere. I think that it is indeed a hardware controller problem, not really a mouse or accelerator problem. I have two mice, the Atari and the Best mouse, and the trackball, and the Atari accelerator, and this occurs during any combination of the above. The problem is in the box! Oh Well.... -GEISHA-
boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd) (03/18/91)
In article <214@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au>, warwick@cs.uq.oz.au writes: > > IT IS NOT A MOUSE `DOUBLER'. Those things are horrible - they just >make the mouse move two pixels rather than 1 on each pulse, so the mouse >jerks around the screen. > Just to differ, I rather like my mouse doubler. It does nothing in low res, doubles the x-axis movement in medium, and both x and y axis in high res. This means that you get the same amount of relative pointer movement as mouse movement in all resolutions. > The Mouse accelerator I use goes at normal speed when you move >the mouse around, but if you move it, say twice as fast, it steps up >the speed and travels (say) four times as fast. > Now, these proportional accelerators really annoy me. I constantly miss stuff when I start cooking with the mouse. I find that I have to try two or three times just to grab a file, or hit the trash can. Maybe I just move too fast for the damn things (the one on the NeXT boxes drives me nuts!). I used to think "more is better" when it comes to mice. I have now sobered a bit. I want something constant! Consistency breeds speed. As I have noted in previous posts, the "higher dpi == better mouse" scam is another basically stupid thing you can do with a mouse! Just IMHO. I didnt want all those pd and shareware authors to think that EVERYONE likes the proportional mouse accelerators (since many utilities are starting to include some sort of mouse acceleration). Oh, here is another one: you do something with a mouse (like click a button), and the damn pointer jumps to another part of the screen (supposedly so I do not have to move it myself). Arrrrrgh! -- ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- Mickey R. Boyd | "It's amazing how much growing up FSU Computer Science | resembles being too tired." Technical Support Group | email: boyd@fsucs.cs.fsu.edu | - Heinlein ---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
warwick@cs.uq.oz.au (Warwick Allison) (03/18/91)
boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd) writes: >Oh, here is another one: you do something with a mouse (like click a button), >and the damn pointer jumps to another part of the screen (supposedly so I >do not have to move it myself). Arrrrrgh! I AGREE TOTALLY. Anybody who writes programs that do this, and don't provide a way to configure without `mouse-warp' should be shot. It takes longer to visually find the mouse again than it would to move it! -- _--_|\ warwick@cs.uq.oz.au / * <-- Computer Science Department, \_.--._/ University of Queensland, v AUSTRALIA.