vanleejf@udcps3.cps.udayton.edu (James Van Leeuwen) (03/14/91)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CeBIT Computer Announcement
Repost from GEnie by Tom Harker of ICD.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CeBIT '91 Newsbreak
March 13, 1991
Things are really heating up here today in Hannover, Germany at the
1991 version of CeBIT which is the largest computer show in the
world. Atari surprised everyone with their announcement and
demonstration of two exciting new 68000 based computers. The
following was described to me by Atari engineers as the were demoing
the equipment. I have written this because I felt it newsworthy and
an important boost to the moral of Atari users everywhere. I make
no guaranty for the accuracy of this information but I have tried to
get as much detail as possible. The computer names used are only
"internal" Atari names and may be changed before release of the
products.
ST Notebook
This is said to be the smallest 68000 based computer in the world. Its
size rivals any PC Notebook style computer that I have seen. It is
about 1/2 the size of my laptop computer and maybe 3/4 of an inch
thick. Features include:
o A built in mouse device that consists of three buttons. The
large center button is direction and possibly velocity sensitive
to simulate mouse movement in direction and speed.
o A laptop size keyboard, possibly a little smaller than
standard. The tactile feel was good.
o 512K ROM capability. It looked like TOS 2.05 was shown in the
prototype. This prototype did have a very professional and
finished look to it.
o 1 megabyte or 4 megabyte RAM versions available. Uses
pseudo-static RAM.
o 2 1/2 inch form factor internal hard drive. 20 megabytes was
installed. Presently up to 60 megabytes is possible. Probably
an IDE (AT) interface.
o External ports include midi in and out, 1 serial, 1 parallel, 1
combo either floppy drive OR ACSI, 2 RAM card slots (128K
cards shown, said to support up to 4 megabytes), 128 pin
computer direct port (all address, data lines, CPU control,
etc.), modem connector (for optional internal voice/fax
modem), keypad/mouse port. Of course to maintain the small
size, nearly all connectors were shrunk and non-standard
types.
o An excellent gray-tone LCD display. It did not appear to be
backlit which would make sense for the battery life. This was
said to be greater than 10 hours before recharging. With less
hard drive use, it would be longer.
o The replaceable battery pack shown was very small and
contained about eight AA alkaline batteries. If Ni-Cads were
installed, the universal power supply would also recharge them
when connected. When the battery pack goes down, the
notebook is automatically put in a halted state that is
maintained for weeks until recharged. Internal Ni-Cad
batteries will maintain the halted state of the computer for
about 5 hours if the battery pack is removed from the
computer.
o Atari has a few choices to transfer data to and from the
computer. Connect an external floppy drive. Transfer over
the serial ports with a modem or direct. Transfer over the
parallel ports at around 20 Kbytes/sec. Connect an ACSI
device such as a hard drive externally or possibly ACSI to
ACSI communications.
ST PAD
This is similar to ST Notebook and shares most of the features but
has a futuristic interface. A touch sensitive LCD display with a
pointing device was shown for mouse type functions and handwriting
recognition for input. Physically, ST Pad looked like the "Etch-a-
Sketch" drawing toys that we grew up with minus the X/Y knobs.
No keyboard was attached and there is not an internal hard drive.
The OS software and large amount of scratchpad RAM were said to
have Artificial Intelligence features to allow ST Pad to actually learn
your handwriting style! (Good luck with mine.)
ST Pad looked like it needed more time for completion but ST
Notebook looked like something we may actually see sometime this
summer or fall. With this exciting new innovative line of computers
and Alwin Stumpf (from Atari GmbH) heading up a new world-wide
marketing campaign, it appears that this time Atari really may be
backing the promise with the product.
Copyright 1991 Tom Harker of ICD, Inc. Permission for this release
to be distributed or reprinted is granted but only in its entirety.
--
"We didn't start the fire, / ___/_ Jim Van Leeuwen
it was always burning / / / \ The University of Dayton
since the world's been /___/__/ / Bitnet: VANLEEJF@DAYTON GEnie: JVAN
turning..." --Billy Joel /______/ Internet: vanleejf@udcps3.cps.udayton.eduseattle@hydra.unm.edu (David G. Adams) (03/17/91)
In article <1991Mar14.033302.10763@udcps3.cps.udayton.edu> vanleejf@udcps3.cps.udayton.edu (James Van Leeuwen) writes: >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >CeBIT Computer Announcement >Repost from GEnie by Tom Harker of ICD. >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >ST Notebook > >This is said to be the smallest 68000 based computer in the world. Its >size rivals any PC Notebook style computer that I have seen. It is >about 1/2 the size of my laptop computer and maybe 3/4 of an inch >thick. Features include: > (awesome list deleted with regret) WOW. I was thinking of getting a STacy, assumit ever passed FCC and the price came down.... This may be exactly what I've always wanted. A miniature ST that I could bring into my classes to take notes and play nethack on. Too bad I'm graduating this semester. It'll still be nice to take on trips, when I have to be away from my home system. No big deal about no disk drive - I hardly ever use my SF314 anymore anyway. Any idea at all (give or take $500US) how much this baby will cost? Guess I'll find out in about 1-2 years, when it hits the US market. Dave -- /|\ | Lords of the / seattle@hydra.unm.edu < <>--<> > David G. Adams \ < |/\ | Earth: | "Modern love is automatic" - A Flock of Seagulls | \| | Live it! \ Don't bug the University 'bout nuthin' I've said. /
trh@atari.UUCP (T R Hall) (03/22/91)
seattle@hydra.unm.edu (David G. Adams) writes: >>This is said to be the smallest 68000 based computer in the world. Its >>size rivals any PC Notebook style computer that I have seen. It is >>about 1/2 the size of my laptop computer and maybe 3/4 of an inch >>thick. Features include: >> >(awesome list deleted with regret) >No big deal about no disk drive - I hardly ever use my SF314 anymore anyway. >Any idea at all (give or take $500US) how much this baby will cost? >Guess I'll find out in about 1-2 years, when it hits the US market. >Dave As the designer of said notebook-ST(e), I have held off introducing the subject, but as long as you brought it up ... The "Announced List Price" of the basic 1 MByte system RAM, 20 MByte IDE hard drive (no internal floppy, alas) system is $2000.00, with production slated for July/August (actually, the delay is mostly to cut the steel tools for the plastic). TRH (By the way, I seem to have missed the original post... can some kind soul forward it to me so I may have it for my scrapbook... and to check on the list of features?)
mc4c+@andrew.cmu.edu (Mark Choi) (03/24/91)
> Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.atari.st: 22-Mar-91 Re: Two New Computer > Announ.. T R Hall@atari.UUCP (1095) > As the designer of said notebook-ST(e), I have held off introducing > the subject, but as long as you brought it up ... > The "Announced List Price" of the basic 1 MByte system RAM, 20 MByte > IDE hard drive (no internal floppy, alas) system is $2000.00, with > production > slated for July/August (actually, the delay is mostly to cut the steel > tools for the plastic). Hey, guy, good work! But... Why no monitor port, I want colour graphics! And a floppy drive is a must. almost all PC notebooks got 'em, and if Atari ever wants to sell to anyone other than current atari faithful, they had better follow the competition. DS/DD is archaic! We need 1.44 meg, not just for this notebook, but for all ST/TT's. I write this in the hope that enough external pressure will force a redesign. Also, without a cartridge port, unless D.Small makes his internal emulator, there will be no Mac market. This is too bad. BTW, I have STacy, and so I know how badly Atari can screw up in the portable market! -GEISHA- P.S. but I want one anyway!
tgray@pieman.compserv.utas.edu.au (Tony Gray) (03/25/91)
In article <gbux2Yy00WC0ImXbxT@andrew.cmu.edu> mc4c+@andrew.cmu.edu (Mark Choi) writes: >> Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.atari.st: 22-Mar-91 Re: Two New Computer >> Announ.. T R Hall@atari.UUCP (1095) <Lots of nice bits deleted > > > But... Why no monitor port, I want colour graphics! And a floppy drive >is a must. almost all PC notebooks got 'em, and if Atari ever wants to >sell to anyone other than current atari faithful, they had better follow >the competition. DS/DD is archaic! We need 1.44 meg, not just for this >notebook, but for all ST/TT's. I write this in the hope that enough >external pressure will force a redesign. Also, without a cartridge port, >unless D.Small makes his internal emulator, there will be no Mac market. Add all of these things and you'd just about require a box the size of stacy. I don't think you could use these (or any) notebook systems as a full system - you'd need some "base station" or at least another ST to exchange data with, otherwise you just have to squeeze too much hardware into too little a space. -- Tony Gray AARNET: tgray@pieman.compserv.utas.edu.au School of Applied Computing Phone : (003) 260 366 University of Tasmania at Launceston CIS : 74010,1556 Australia
mc4c+@andrew.cmu.edu (Mark Choi) (03/26/91)
> Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.atari.st: 24-Mar-91 Re: Two New Computer > Announ.. Tony Gray@pieman.compser (1269) > Add all of these things and you'd just about require a box the size of > stacy. I don't think you could use these (or any) notebook systems > as a full system - you'd need some "base station" or at least another > ST to exchange data with, otherwise you just have to squeeze too much > hardware into too little a space. Not true. Again, pick up a copy of computer shopper and lookit the specs for any PCnotebook out there. Almost all have external VGA, an internal 1.44 meg dirve, 20-40 meg HD, some have an ISA bus, And a cartidge would not add all that much real estate. If GBS made a ROM piggyback board, I wouldn't care about the acartridge, though! And yet they still wiegh less than 5 pounds, and are VERY small. If it (ST notebook) does not have these features, who is Atari planning to sell these things to. The Germans, that's who. How much do you wanna bet the US won't even see them before Apple and IBM have 68060/80686 machines the size of a broach, with 3D virtual holoscreens, 26 Meg of ram, a 300Meg static ram disk, and molecular memory cards. Atari: less power for less money. This thing would sell like mad if they could get it out in time (ie. before apple comes out with its soon to be released mac notebook) but I doubt atari learns anything from the past, and so I do not think this will happen. After all, how many gameboy adds did I see on TV last night? 6. How many Atari lynx adds have I seen on TV, ever? 0. So why is the lynx selling so badly? Hmmmm.... Really the only problem see with the above is that it will decrease the battery life somewhat. But with a slated battery life of over ten hours at constant operation, and the PC notebooks havng less than three, I doubt this is the main problem. PLEASE Atari corp, do it right this time. Please? -geisha-
mc4c+@andrew.cmu.edu (Mark Choi) (03/26/91)
Just thought of something. Could it be that perhaps Atari is doing the IBM/PCjr. mistake, and trying to protect sales of the STacy by leaving the notebook lacking in certain departments, thus making it not capable of use in some fields where the STacy will be the only Atrai choice. Stupid, if so. With MIDI, you would think that Atari means this baby to be used with sound, but without a cartridge port, you eliminate all the main commercial sound digitizers. Also this suggestes that the speculation that this thing is based on the STe mother board is just plain false. With no external monitor, what good is an extended colour palette. If it can only use monaural sound, assuimg it even has one speaker, then what good is stereo DMA PCM. What gives? Who is supposed to use this thing, anyway. I am sick and tired of Atari making MIDI controllers, and not better computers. The MIDI market is small and starting to bail to other platforms, so Atrai had better try to find some other niche. Video->Amiga DTP/Word processing->Mac Business/numbers/accounting->PC's Education->Apple II/Mac classic/Mac IILC MIDI->Atari/Mac They don't even have the largest share of the MIDI market anymore. I know th ST can be *used* in these other fields, but it is not versitile enough, and nopt good enough in any of these fields, except DTP/MIDI to really catch on. The hardware is O.K. for a lot of it, but the software/OS stinks. And since when is 320X400 graphics considered acceptable. Not even for NTSC, especially with only 16 colours. To whom is Atari trying to sell these? All this comes down to is that the note book had better have a minimum of STE compatibility, or it will be a dog form the word go, everywhere else but Deutschland. Zu Schlecht!
scale@abode.wciu.edu (Luis Outumuro) (03/27/91)
Hi Marc, You mentioned that you have several TV ads for GameBoy, but none for the Lynx. It must be in your market area; here where I live, I see about 5 or 6 TV ads for the Lynx per day and only 1 GameBoy ad every few days. Here in the Los Angeles area; most toy stores, several department stores and gaming shops carry the Lynx. From what I understand; Atari DOES advertise, regionally though. Atari also provides co-op advertising funds for dealers. Bye.................. Luis -- """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Luis Mark Outumuro III | "Well... you're damned if you do, Computer Office Products 818/813-1051 | and you're damned if you don't!" Infoline 818/813-1053 | - Bart Simpson, 1990...
trh@atari.UUCP (T R Hall) (03/28/91)
mc4c+@andrew.cmu.edu (Mark Choi) writes: >> As the designer of said notebook-ST(e), I have held off introducing >> the subject, but as long as you brought it up ... >> ... >Hey, guy, good work! > But... Why no monitor port, I want colour graphics! (1) >....And a floppy drive >is a must. almost all PC notebooks got 'em, and if Atari ever wants to >sell to anyone other than current atari faithful, they had better follow >the competition. (2) > ....DS/DD is archaic! We need 1.44 meg, not just for this >notebook, but for all ST/TT's. (3) > ....Also, without a cartridge port, >unless D.Small makes his internal emulator, there will be no Mac market. >This is too bad. (4) > ....I write this in the hope that enough (5) >external pressure will force a redesign. Hopefully, if I post this I won't have to repeat it too often: 1) I didn't include a monitor port for a couple of reasons: A) Power The graphics shifter/video drive circuitry uses almost as much power as the rest of the system put together. Since the machine is specifically designed for PORTABLE usage, I made the (fairly reasonable) assumption that you aren't going to carry a color/mono monitor around with you. B) Space Hey, I tossed out ANYTHING I didn't feel was required in a PORTABLE machine, to make the machine as small as possible. 2) If you look at the so-called competition (Intel-based machines) I think you will find that the "note-book" sized units include EITHER a floppy or a hard disk, but not both. Since this machine was mosty intended to allow desktop-ATARI users to take specific data/applications with them on the road, I felt that loading data/programs into the internal Hard Drive would not be a hardship. Would you rather carry a hard-drive machine, or a floppy machine with a bunch of floppies that you have to swap in-and-out? As far as data transfer, both the Notebook and Pad versions of the machines will include file-transfer software in the ROMS, transfering over parallel-ports to other ST's, and serial ports to non-ATARI machines (hopefuly with an existing protocol, so Atari won't have to write [shudder!!] MS-DOS software). 3) Look for high-density floppies, both in desktop machines and in an external (probably battery-operated) floppy drive for the ST notebook (or whatever its final name is). We may be slow, but we ain't Blind/Dumb. 4) Both the STPad and STBook have an "expansion" port that includes all address and data lines, bus control lines, R/W and a number of ROM select lines. ALL of the signals needed for the "cartridge port" are present on "expansion port", so a conversion device need only consist of two connectors, a PC-board, and a housing. I'm sure some enterprising developer will make such available at a reasonable price. Even better, maybe "cartridges" will be upgraded to take advantage of new features. 5) Maybe we should take a vote: Should we let everybody add their 2 cents to the design, increase the size of the machine, delay it a few months/ years, increase the price, etc? :) :) :) :) :) 8) 8) 8) 8^) 8^) 8^) Oh, incidently, in the reprint from Tom Harker (ICD) he mentions that the note-book machine has JEIDA cards. He was a little confused; The note-book machine has the hard-drive as storage, the PAD machine has JEIDA cards, but NO hard-drive (the pad is intended to be hand-held; one twist and BOOM! the hard-drive would crash). TRH [PLEEEEAAAASSSEE note the smileys above! don't send me votes/suggestions/etc; it's hard ENOUGH to get through my mail/news each morning.]
hyc@hanauma.jpl.nasa.gov (Howard Chu) (03/28/91)
In article <2885@atari.UUCP> trh@atari.UUCP (T R Hall) writes: [a lot of good stuff, deleted] > 4) Both the STPad and STBook have an "expansion" port that includes all > address and data lines, bus control lines, R/W and a number of ROM > select lines. ALL of the signals needed for the "cartridge port" are > present on "expansion port", so a conversion device need only consist > of two connectors, a PC-board, and a housing. I'm sure some > enterprising developer will make such available at a reasonable price. > Even better, maybe "cartridges" will be upgraded to take advantage of > new features. Awesome. So, cartridge-type expansion port that actually allows R/W access, eh? Great, it's about time. Um, if *all* the address lines are present, does this mean the CPU is now allowed to address its full 16MB address space? Or does the GLUE still bus-error on writes outside the 4MB limit? Geeze, I guess I'm missing something by not getting onto GEnie... -- -- Howard Chu @ Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA Disclaimer: How would I know, I just got here!
priol@irisa.fr (Thierry Priol) (03/28/91)
From article <2885@atari.UUCP>, by trh@atari.UUCP (T R Hall): > 1) I didn't include a monitor port for a couple of reasons: > A) Power > The graphics shifter/video drive circuitry uses almost as much > power as the rest of the system put together. Since the machine > is specifically designed for PORTABLE usage, I made the (fairly > reasonable) assumption that you aren't going to carry a color/mono > monitor around with you. Have you an idea about the battery life for the ST Book ? -- Thierry PRIOL Phone: 99 36 20 00 IRISA / INRIA U.R. Rennes Fax: 99 38 38 32 Campus Universitaire de Beaulieu Telex: UNIRISA 950 473F 35042 RENNES CEDEX - FRANCE E-mail: priol@irisa.fr
chuck@umbc5.umbc.edu (Chuck Rickard; ACS (UGRAD)) (03/29/91)
In article <2885@atari.UUCP> trh@atari.UUCP (T R Hall) writes: I hope you don't mind if I comment on your views... ;-) > Hopefully, if I post this I won't have to repeat it too often: > > 1) I didn't include a monitor port for a couple of reasons: > A) Power > The graphics shifter/video drive circuitry uses almost as much > power as the rest of the system put together. Since the machine > is specifically designed for PORTABLE usage, I made the (fairly > reasonable) assumption that you aren't going to carry a color/mono > monitor around with you. > B) Space > Hey, I tossed out ANYTHING I didn't feel was required in a PORTABLE > machine, to make the machine as small as possible. This is an item I feel is not worth talking about as well. The machine is portable, so who cares if it hooks up to a monitor or not. I think the original poster wants a machine to replace his current machine, so he can have a "double-duty" machine, not two separate ones. > 2) If you look at the so-called competition (Intel machines) I think > you will find that the "note-book" sized units include EITHER a floppy > or a hard disk, but not both. Since this machine was mosty intended to > allow desktop-ATARI users to take specific data/applications with them > on the road, I felt that loading data/programs into the internal Hard > Drive would not be a hardship. Would you rather carry a hard-drive > machine, or a floppy machine with a bunch of floppies that you have to > swap in-and-out? > As far as data transfer, both the Notebook and Pad versions of the > machines will include file-transfer software in the ROMS, transfering > over parallel-ports to other ST's, and serial ports to non-ATARI > machines (hopefuly with an existing protocol, so Atari won't have to > write [shudder!!] MS-DOS software). This is where I think you are wrong. The Panasonic CF-170 (or Tandy 1500HD, same machine) has both a 20 meg hard drives and a 1.44meg disk drive built-in to a really nice notebook machine. The hard drive is a nice 2.5" Conner CP-2024 and is really fast (14ms). It also has room for a 2400baud modem internally, and after looking inside, I found that they could have added more if they wanted to. > 3) Look for high-density floppies, both in desktop machines and in an > external (probably battery-operated) floppy drive for the ST notebook > (or whatever its final name is). We may be slow, but we ain't > Blind/Dumb. I don't know why you guys can't just go totally with 1.44meg drives. Gee, a high density controller for the PC can be had for $30, so the parts can't be that expensive. > 4) Both the STPad and STBook have an "expansion" port that includes all > address and data lines, bus control lines, R/W and a number of ROM > select lines. ALL of the signals needed for the "cartridge port" are > present on "expansion port", so a conversion device need only consist > of two connectors, a PC-board, and a housing. I'm sure some > enterprising developer will make such available at a reasonable price. > Even better, maybe "cartridges" will be upgraded to take advantage of > new features. While I feel its nice that the machine does have expansion, I dread the idea of another interface thingy hanging off the machine. With my ST, I had a machine around 3 feet wide counting all the crap hanging off the ends. > 5) Maybe we should take a vote: Should we let everybody add their 2 cents > to the design, increase the size of the machine, delay it a few months/ > years, increase the price, etc? :) :) :) :) :) 8) 8) 8) 8^) 8^) 8^) Before making machines, maybe you should... (1) Ask some people what they want. (2) Check out the competitors machines. (3) Think. I know doing these might add some time to the process, but other people seem to do it and come out with machines in a decent time-frame. > Oh, incidently, in the reprint from Tom Harker (ICD) he mentions that >the note-book machine has JEIDA cards. He was a little confused; The note-book >machine has the hard-drive as storage, the PAD machine has JEIDA cards, but NO >hard-drive (the pad is intended to be hand-held; one twist and BOOM! the >hard-drive would crash). While it would be nice if the laptop had the JEIDA card socket, I really don't think it would be necessary. Anyway, how expensive is it to add one of those sockets to the machine. The whole PC card setup only costs $79.95, so it can't really cost that much. > TRH > >[PLEEEEAAAASSSEE note the smileys above! don't send me votes/suggestions/etc; >it's hard ENOUGH to get through my mail/news each morning.] If sounded harsh, please don't take it to be mean, but after 6 years of dealing with this crap, I feel that I have a right to say something. -- Chuck Rickard (chuck@umbc5.umbc.edu)
mc4c+@andrew.cmu.edu (Mark Choi) (03/29/91)
> Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.atari.st: 27-Mar-91 Re: Two New Computer > Announ.. T R Hall@atari.UUCP (3687) > If you look at the so-called competition (Intel-based machines) I think > you will find that the "note-book" sized units include EITHER a > floppy > or a hard disk, but not both. Since this machine was mosty > intended to > allow desktop-ATARI users to take specific data/applications > with them > on the road This is just not true. I have looked at the intel based notebooks, and they do usually have both. Oh well. I just disagree with the design concept here. To get ten hours of battery life by tossing out everything including the kitchen sink, is not "innovative power management" or however it was refered to in the news release. > Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.atari.st: 27-Mar-91 Re: Two New Computer > Announ.. T R Hall@atari.UUCP (3687) > Look for high-density floppies, both in desktop machines and in an > external (probably battery-operated) floppy drive for the ST notebook > (or whatever its final name is). We may be slow, but we ain't > Blind/Dumb. Does this mean that the notebook floopy controller *WILL* support 1.44 meg drives? Also, if you are lookinig at a battery powered floppy, and batterylife was the problem with putting a floppy in the notebook, why not just add more batteries to the notebook? As for the last statement Atari employees like yourself seem to be terrific. But Atari the company. It *is* Blind/Dumb! And excruciatingly slow as well. > Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.atari.st: 27-Mar-91 Re: Two New Computer > Announ.. T R Hall@atari.UUCP (3687) > Both the STPad and STBook have an "expansion" port that includes all > address and data lines, bus control lines, R/W and a number of ROM > select lines. ALL of the signals needed for the "cartridge port" are > present on "expansion port", so a conversion device need only consist > of two connectors, a PC-board, and a housing. I'm sure some > enterprising developer will make such available at a reasonable price. > Even better, maybe "cartridges" will be upgraded to take advantage of > new features. This, however, is great news, and cool as hell. I bet GBS *will* redesign the board, if the price point for the notebook is right. If so, and the Atari notebook (STacey feminine, my suggested name) will seel well as the first truely poratable mac, as well as a good PC, and Atari as well. Maybe then people would get interested ion software for native modes, as well as software for their emulations, and the software market for the ST would take off. > Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.atari.st: 27-Mar-91 Re: Two New Computer > Announ.. T R Hall@atari.UUCP (3687) > Maybe we should take a vote: Should we let everybody add their 2 cents > to the design, increase the size of the machine, delay it a few months/ > years, increase the price, etc? :) :) :) :) :) 8) 8) 8) 8^) 8^) 8^) No, just listen to the market out there, and do what is necessary to sell to that market. If the machine needs a redesign to sell, then it does. If not, then... . I do not think that targeting it soley at the current Atari community is wise. We are small, getting smaller, and the number of ST people who will buy the notebook is even smaller. Granted we may all want to, but most bought the ST for price, and we are not monied enough to buy every new machine that comes out. Look at TT sales. If it takes a few months delay to allow you to sell 5 times the number of machines, it is worth it. If it took Atari years to add a floopy drive, something is wrong. Also, if you keep smiling that much, your jaw will fall off :^|. Lastly, as far as monitor support, you mention, as do others the carrying around of monitors is not likely. You miss the point. In the PC world, the VGA port is used to dock the machine to a desk setup, where the advantages of a desk setup, and its wall power, etc., and the advantages of CRT over LCD are most appreciated. I would not carry a monitor with me, but I would like to plug in a monitor at home. Also, If no monitor circuitry if provided, an RF circuit would do, adn draw less power. If power was the concern, then it could be made in such a way that the monitor circuitry operated off a seperate (external) power supply, and so that restriction is bypassed. Or a greyscale LCD could have been used for colour modes. In a world of VGA PC's EGA doesn't make it very well. Hopefully either an expansion board, or the Lexicor board will allow external monitor support. Only my $.04 worth, but I think it is important. -geisha-
saj@chinet.chi.il.us (Stephen Jacobs) (03/29/91)
In this discussion, I somehow haven't picked up whether that wonderful
expansion connector is going to be driven by light-duty things, the way the
Mega connector is, or by drivers with some fan-out (and isolation) capability.
The way discussion has gone, I fear the former (but don't know). And it has
been mentionsd several times in the past that the 'weakness' of the Mega port
made it hard for people to connect things to it. (come to think of it,
likewise the parallel port, but that's not the point here).
One thing that I think would make a big difference in sales of these machines
is software that would allow a connection to a PC such that the laptop
could act as a remote keyboard for the PC, and also transfer files both
ways quickly. Preferably built in to the laptop, and preferably able to
install anything needed on the PC end itself. I'm thinking of Laplink here,
and rather than inventing it again, Atari might not do badly to see if something
could be worked out with the Laplink people.
I care very much about the sales of ST-compatible laptops; I have a rather
nice application written for such machines. I'll join the chorus of "There
has to be a cheap & easy way to put software into it". That just doesn't
apply as strongly to PC-compatible ultra-lights, where there's probably
already a machine that runs essentially the same programs to dock it to. You
can take along a travelling copy of software from the 'home base' machine.
Doesn't work for a non-PC-compatible, and will CERTAINLY be seen as a negative.
Try to get into the mind of someone who has to load the ST version of Word
Perfect onto his '386 box in order to transfer it to a laptop so he can play
with a report while he's on a trip. Sure he'd only have to do it once, but
I don't think he'd be thinking pro-Atari thoughts as he did. One entirely
plausible idea is to have a floppy as part of a 'base unit' that would tend
to stay home, as long as it was standard equipment.
How's this: a combination power brick, floppy drive and external video
adapter, that plugs in to the expansion connector?
Don't anyone get too excited; these are just some ramblings. And by the way,
who's the magic person who has to say 'this will happen' and make these
officially-announced future Atari products? And has that person said that?
Steve saj@chinet.chi.il.usAlex.Valdez@bbs.actrix.gen.nz (03/31/91)
In article <2885@atari.UUCP> trh@atari.UUCP (T R Hall) writes: > As far as data transfer, both the Notebook and Pad versions of the > machines will include file-transfer software in the ROMS, transfering > over parallel-ports to other ST's, and serial ports to non-ATARI > machines (hopefuly with an existing protocol, so Atari won't have to > write [shudder!!] MS-DOS software). I thought the ST's parallel port is output only. Surely one would transfer data from the notebook/pad into a regular ST as well. Just my NZ$0.02 (~ US$0.01) -- Alex Valdez
adamd@rhi.hi.is (Adam David) (04/01/91)
In <2885@atari.UUCP> trh@atari.UUCP (T R Hall) writes: > The graphics shifter/video drive circuitry uses almost as much > power as the rest of the system put together. What about an external video shifter option, included in the monitor interface? Roll on the age of the pocket workstation. From Atari, maybe? -Adam David-
trh@atari.UUCP (T R Hall) (04/02/91)
hyc@hanauma.jpl.nasa.gov (Howard Chu) writes: >.... Um, if *all* the address lines are >present, does this mean the CPU is now allowed to address its full 16MB >address space? Or does the GLUE still bus-error on writes outside the 4MB >limit? > -- Howard Chu @ Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA Actually, the way the Glue chip "Bus Errors" is that it has a (minimal) timer that watches /AS. If /AS is longer than 1uS (1000nS) than it generates a /BERR. So, the CPU CAN address the full 16MB space; the circuitry in the GLUE was to make sure there is a BERR in any un-occupied space. Your circuitry can generate a DTACK to any space (that the glue doesn't respond to), and if it keeps /AS under 1uS, then everything is fine. [I probably shouldn't say this part, but what the heck...] For those who really want to kludge, you could even respond to accesses that are in spaces the Glue decodes, but doesn't respond to, such as WRITES to ROM spaces. Of course, you can't READ what you wrote (because of ROM responses to read), but the writing part of the kludge would work. TRH
trh@atari.UUCP (T R Hall) (04/03/91)
Alex.Valdez@bbs.actrix.gen.nz writes: >In article <2885@atari.UUCP> trh@atari.UUCP (T R Hall) writes: >> As far as data transfer, both the Notebook and Pad versions of the >> machines will include file-transfer software in the ROMS, transfering >> over parallel-ports to other ST's, and serial ports to non-ATARI >> machines (hopefuly with an existing protocol, so Atari won't have to >> write [shudder!!] MS-DOS software). >I thought the ST's parallel port is output only. Surely one would >transfer data from the notebook/pad into a regular ST as well. >Alex Valdez Read what I just said: OTHER ST'S! i.e. "REGULAR" ST'S! That was the whole POINT. And YES the ST's port is bi-directional; we use it all the time internally to allow our debugger to talk to remote machines. TRH
micro@imada.dk (Klaus Pedersen) (04/04/91)
trh@atari.UUCP (T R Hall) writes: > Actually, the way the Glue chip "Bus Errors" is that it has a >(minimal) timer that watches /AS. If /AS is longer than 1uS (1000nS) than >it generates a /BERR. Using the /AS to generate the BERR?? What a great hack!!! Even motorola don't mention that it can be done that simple - instead they say (quote) : "BUS ERROR AND HALT OPERATION ... External circitry must be used to determine the durtion between address strobe and data transfer acknowledge before issuing a bus error signal..." /AS and /DTACK is coupled very closely... (great hack) There is one thing that worries me though - 1uS timeout??? From what I can see in the motorla docs. then a Read-Modify-Write Cycle have the /AS low for 8.5 cycles (at 8Mhz this is sligthly longer than 1uS??) Don't you mean something like 64 cycles (or 8uS???). One thing is sure - the read-modify-write instruction TAS, don't trigger a bus-error (it's used to check if the blitter is ready). > [I probably shouldn't say this part, but what the heck...] (Please do...) > For those who really want to kludge, you could even respond to >accesses that are in spaces the Glue decodes, but doesn't respond to, such as >WRITES to ROM spaces. Of course, you can't READ what you wrote (because of ROM >responses to read), but the writing part of the kludge would work. Kind of WOM (write only memory), it's very cheep to manufacture - there is one problem though (it's kind of hard to get the information back out) ;-) Even better than generating a /DTACK on internal ROM, is generating it on the ROM port - remember to put the R/W signal through a hole in the box... Keep up the good work, TRH - and let us know all the details... --- Klaus (micro@imada.dk)
pegram@kira.UUCP (Robert B. Pegram) (04/04/91)
From article <1991Mar29.150606.11735@chinet.chi.il.us>, by saj@chinet.chi.il.us (Stephen Jacobs): > How's this: a combination power brick, floppy drive and external video > adapter, that plugs in to the expansion connector? I second that idea 8-), and it should quiet those of us who tend to confuse light and heavy laptops with each other. > Don't anyone get too excited; these are just some ramblings. And by the way, > who's the magic person who has to say 'this will happen' and make these > officially-announced future Atari products? And has that person said that? > Steve saj@chinet.chi.il.us Sounds like they 're committed to them or they wouldn't show them. Hope the weight is really low (what was it again?) and the price isn't too high. 8-) Bob Pegram {Awaiting an STE, after death of my ancient 520 8-} {"She were a faithful old beastie."} pegram@griffin.uvm.edu or ...!uvm-gen!pegram
pegram@kira.UUCP (Robert B. Pegram) (04/09/91)
From article <1991Mar31.095414.21978@actrix.gen.nz>, by Alex.Valdez@bbs.actrix.gen.nz: > In article <2885@atari.UUCP> trh@atari.UUCP (T R Hall) writes: >> As far as data transfer, both the Notebook and Pad versions of the >> machines will include file-transfer software in the ROMS, transfering >> over parallel-ports to other ST's, and serial ports to non-ATARI >> machines (hopefuly with an existing protocol, so Atari won't have to >> write [shudder!!] MS-DOS software). > I thought the ST's parallel port is output only. Surely one would > transfer data from the notebook/pad into a regular ST as well. Nope, it's bidrectional - but not exactly the way IBM ports are (which is partly why Portfolio code to transfer to PCs doesn't work on STs). I should know, my dear departed 520 got me my BS, as it ran my Armatron for Senior (EE) project. The ST sent the arm commands, and the arm sent back signals when it hit its limits of motion - all through the parallel port. > Alex Valdez Bob Pegram {anxiously awaiting backordered STE 8-} pegram@griffin.uvm.edu or ...!uvm-gen!pegram