kllove@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Kenneth L Love) (04/12/91)
This summer I'm going to be teaching myself how to program in C. My
biggest (and brightest?) question is: "Which version of C is the best?".
I realize that many factors could influence my (or someone else's) opinion.
So, I'm going to list a few.
The code must be somewhat portable between systems (i.e. Is there a standard
and how far do the ST versions diverge from it?)
The company support must be existant. {I think that is self-explanatory.}
Are there good books available for the learning of this version of C?
(Or would any book on C be sufficient?)
Would it be better if I knew something about the internals of the ST?
(Is C like Pascal in that knowing the system hardware is uneccesary?)
If I am fluent in Pascal, how difficult is C to learn?
(Are they different conceptually? i.e. pointers = what in C? Does C have
some things that Pascal doesn't? etc.)
Is Turbo C going to be released in English? (I have NO desire to learn
German, especially if all I was going to do with it was work with Turbo.)
What kind of editor do the various versions use? (I like 'vi' over 'ed'
anyday! :) (Is the mouse supported?)
Does C use anything like a CLI or is it GEM only? (I use 'csh' on the Unix
system here at Okla. U. Does C use a shell like 'csh'?)
Can I use any of the versions of C without a hard drive? (I don't have
one and it may be next fall before I do get one.)
How much does the language(s) and book(s) cost?
That's all I can think of. (I think I hear cries of, "Isn't that enough?"...
Nahhh... Couldn't be! :)
adTHANKSvance,
Kenneth Lovekllove@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Kenneth L Love) (04/12/91)
In article <1991Apr12.054754.7583@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu> kllove@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Kenneth L Love) writes: > >This summer I'm going to be teaching myself how to program in C. My >biggest (and brightest?) question is: "Which version of C is the best?". > [ Stuff deleted ] > >adTHANKSvance, >Kenneth Love I forgot to mention that I would prefer to receive e-mail on this. I thought of another question: Does anybody have any well documented C source code for playing with graphics and sound on the ST? Would this probably be helpful in learning what the ST's ranges are? Should I get some other book(s) about the ST's capabilities? Thanx again, Kenneth Love
rmacgreg@cs.strath.ac.uk (Sorcerer) (04/15/91)
In article <1991Apr12.054754.7583@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu> kllove@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Kenneth L Love) writes: > >This summer I'm going to be teaching myself how to program in C. My >biggest (and brightest?) question is: "Which version of C is the best?". There are only 2 'versions' of C ANSI and K&R. The 2 are fairly similar and it is easy to get a compiler for either version. At the end of the day the differences are cosmetic so it doesn't matter. >I realize that many factors could influence my (or someone else's) opinion. >So, I'm going to list a few. > >The code must be somewhat portable between systems (i.e. Is there a standard >and how far do the ST versions diverge from it?) There is a standard, and the ST versions I've used don't diverge from it (why else bother with standards?). >The company support must be existant. {I think that is self-explanatory.} Dunno about this, I use Sozobon which is PD. >Are there good books available for the learning of this version of C? >(Or would any book on C be sufficient?) Depends on what you know. If you have a good knowledge of Pascal then I would recommend 'C for Pascal Programmers'. Mail me if you want more info on it. >Would it be better if I knew something about the internals of the ST? >(Is C like Pascal in that knowing the system hardware is uneccesary?) > >If I am fluent in Pascal, how difficult is C to learn? >(Are they different conceptually? i.e. pointers = what in C? Does C have > some things that Pascal doesn't? etc.) Knowledge of the internals is only necessary if you want to do some low level programming. C is fairly easy to learn from Pascal, the 2 being very similar (names vary and the symbols change, but there isn't that much difference). The above book is what I used to learn C, and I have to know it for University. C does have a few things Pascal doesn't (like bit level manipulation, and some intelligence) but thats about it. >Is Turbo C going to be released in English? (I have NO desire to learn >German, especially if all I was going to do with it was work with Turbo.) > >What kind of editor do the various versions use? (I like 'vi' over 'ed' >anyday! :) (Is the mouse supported?) Most come without any editor, and those that do can usually be used with any editor you want. I use First Word Plus because I'm used to it and like it. >Does C use anything like a CLI or is it GEM only? (I use 'csh' on the Unix >system here at Okla. U. Does C use a shell like 'csh'?) This will depend upon what you buy. Many don't come with a shell, though some do. My own choice is either Mupfel (from Gemini) or Gulam if you've got the disk space to spare (the one I'm using is only about 70 Kb, which is all I've got to put it in!). Basically any shell you want will do. >Can I use any of the versions of C without a hard drive? (I don't have >one and it may be next fall before I do get one.) Some versions are recommended for use with hard drives, though you can use most of them from floppy. Having said that you will probably require at least 1 Mb of memory for some versions, possibly more. >How much does the language(s) and book(s) cost? Again, this will depend on where you go. My compiler cost me nothing as its PD (and yes, I do recommend Sozobon). Books can cost anything, it depends upon who they are aimed at. >That's all I can think of. (I think I hear cries of, "Isn't that enough?"... >Nahhh... Couldn't be! :) The Sorcerer is 'Only visiting this planet' but can be found at: JANET: cadx862@uk.ac.strathclyde.computer-centre-sun cadp15 @uk.ac.strathclyde.vaxb INTERNET: via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk BITNET: via ukacrl UUCP: via ukc.uucp or second star to the right and straight on 'till morning.
pbh@jake.tmc.edu (Patrick Haggood) (04/16/91)
>(in response to a query about editors and C compilers)
I use CBREEZE with Mark Williams C. With a windows-based computer it's
almost ridiculous to have to battle it out with VI or emacs. Sure, a
gem based editor won't be available on other platforms, but if you know
an editor on those other platforms then what's the problem? CBREEZE
isn't a hard learn (move cursor up, move cursor down, use mouse to move
scroll bars, no [ESC] 9 L here!) and it comes with a customizer for
Mark Williams so you can link, compile and pass parameters to the MWC
compiler directly from the menu bar. The docs say you can even
customize it for other compilers (GCC, Sobozon) but I haven't tried it
since I gave up on GCC. CBREEZE is a Michtron product, and they've
moved so I can't give you an address. However, it's still advertized in
ST mags so I'm sure you can find it.
--
Patrick B. Haggood
Wayne STate University
Detroit, MI
Physics - Class of 1991 (-2?)steve@thelake.mn.org (Steve Yelvington) (04/17/91)
[In article <1991Apr16.134257.8944@cs.wayne.edu>,
pbh@jake.tmc.edu (Patrick Haggood) writes ... ]
>>(in response to a query about editors and C compilers)
> since I gave up on GCC. CBREEZE is a Michtron product, and they've
> moved so I can't give you an address. However, it's still advertized in
> ST mags so I'm sure you can find it.
Last I saw, E. Arthur Brown had acquired a big pile of Michtron sw,
including CBREEZE, and was selling it cheap. (I actually prefer the speed
of MicroEMACS and a full, clear screen.)
The basenote asked about C compilers for learning. I think anybody who
wants to learn C and doesn't pick up Sozobon AND the free source code to
the libraries (dLibs) is missing a golden bet. I've learned more from
Dale Schumacher's code (and from Dale himself) than I've ever learned
from a book.
And as for commercial support ... don't place too much value on that.
They're not going to teach you how to code on the phone. If you have
questions, try comp.sys.atari.st.tech. And post code samples!
----
Steve Yelvington, Marine on St. Croix, Minnesota, USA / steve@thelake.mn.org