SYSPMZT@gecrdvm1.crd.ge.com (06/04/91)
The implication I've heard is that I can only address 4 Meg with my 1040 STe.
I've already upgraded to that point with 4 1-Meg SIMMS, and am wondering if,
should memory prices drop in the future, I'll be able to expand with
4 2-Meg or 4 4-Meg SIMMS.
Is there an architectural restriction limiting a 1040 STe to addressing
4 Meg, and if so, what is that restriction? Also, can anyone explain if and
why I must add symetric amounts of memory in the SIMM slots? (eg 4 1-Meg, not
1 1-Meg and 3 256K, etc.)
Thanks,
Phil Zkiki@uhunix1.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Jack W. Wine) (06/04/91)
In article <91154.141443SYSPMZT@GECRDVM1.BITNET> SYSPMZT@gecrdvm1.crd.ge.com writes: >The implication I've heard is that I can only address 4 Meg with my 1040 STe. >I've already upgraded to that point with 4 1-Meg SIMMS, and am wondering if, >should memory prices drop in the future, I'll be able to expand with >4 2-Meg or 4 4-Meg SIMMS. > >Is there an architectural restriction limiting a 1040 STe to addressing >4 Meg, and if so, what is that restriction? Also, can anyone explain if and >why I must add symetric amounts of memory in the SIMM slots? (eg 4 1-Meg, not >1 1-Meg and 3 256K, etc.) From the looks of my STe, the extra multiplexed address line from the MMU-GLUE (MLUE) to the SIMMs doesn't exist. However, the MLUE is a 144 pin chip and a logic probe showed that most of the unconnected pins are definitely alive! It was mentioned earlier that Fast Technology supposedly had a 14MB DRAM upgrade for the 1040 STe, but I'm not sure how it obtains signals from the MLUE which has extremely thin surface-mounted pins. Another puzzle is the shifter, which was enlarged to 84 pins from a 40 pin chip. Besides the increased palette, what are all those extra pins used for??? Also someone posted some info about the SCSI-like Microwire serial bus that the STe has and I hope someone has more docs regarding it. Jack
dpg@cs.nott.ac.uk (Dave Gymer) (06/04/91)
In article <91154.141443SYSPMZT@GECRDVM1.BITNET> SYSPMZT@gecrdvm1.crd.ge.com writes: >The implication I've heard is that I can only address 4 Meg with my 1040 STe. >I've already upgraded to that point with 4 1-Meg SIMMS, and am wondering if, >should memory prices drop in the future, I'll be able to expand with >4 2-Meg or 4 4-Meg SIMMS. > >Is there an architectural restriction limiting a 1040 STe to addressing >4 Meg, and if so, what is that restriction? Also, can anyone explain if and >why I must add symetric amounts of memory in the SIMM slots? (eg 4 1-Meg, not >1 1-Meg and 3 256K, etc.) The answer to both questions is, I believe, that the MMU in the STe can only handle .25 and 1 meg SIPPS/SIMMS, and these are arranged in two banks, which must contain the same amount (hence, memory configurations can only be .5 meg, 1 meg, 2 meg, 2.5 meg, and 4 meg). I too have a four meg STe. Perhaps someone out there knows of a replacement MMU and memory slots? (Could it be that a 68030 board might have this facility?). Question is, what would you do with more than 4 meg on an ST running TOS (or MiNT). I've yet to exhaust 4 meg (even with GCC, MGR, and BASH. Emacs coming soon... :-) -- /* 'Grave' Dave Gymer --------- Internet: dpg@Cs.Nott.AC.UK *\ +* 42 St Marys Park, Louth, Lincolnshire, LN11 0EF, England *+ +* Olivier's Law: "Experience is something you don't get *+ \*-------------------------- until just after you need it." */
neil@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Forsyth) (06/05/91)
In article <1991Jun4.112631.10649@cs.nott.ac.uk> dpg@cs.nott.ac.uk (Dave Gymer) writes: > ... I believe, that the MMU in the STe can >only handle .25 and 1 meg SIPPS/SIMMS, and these are arranged in two banks, >which must contain the same amount (hence, memory configurations can only >be .5 meg, 1 meg, 2 meg, 2.5 meg, and 4 meg). I too have a four meg STe. ^^^^^^^ Nope. TOS 1.6 has a screwed up memory sizer that assumes that if two banks of RAM exist then both banks are the same size. I don't know if this is a bug in the true sense or malicious crippling but it is sad. BTW, a bank is two SIMMs since memory access is on a word basis. 512K = 2 x 256K SIMMs 1Mb = 4 x 256K SIMMs 2Mb = 2 x 1Mb SIMMs 2.5Mb = 2 x 1Mb SIMMs + 2 x 256K SIMMs (Not with TOS 1.6) 4Mb = 4 x 1Mb SIMMs +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ! DISCLAIMER:Unless otherwise stated, the above comments are entirely my own ! ! ! ! Neil Forsyth JANET: neil@uk.ac.hw.cs ! ! Dept. of Computer Science ARPA: neil@cs.hw.ac.uk ! ! Heriot-Watt University UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!neil ! ! Edinburgh, Scotland, UK "That was never 5 minutes!" ! +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
gjh@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Graham Higgins) (06/05/91)
++ Question is, what would you do with more than 4 meg on an ST running TOS (or ++ MiNT). I've yet to exhaust 4 meg (even with GCC, MGR, and BASH. Emacs coming ++ soon... :-) Try CScheme --- it takes 2.5 Mb (itself!) just to see the intro text. If you actually want to *do* anything (even in 4Mb) you have to forget about MGR, et al. and run it direct from the DeskTop (gasp). Graham ====== ------------------------------------------------------------------ Graham Higgins | gjh%ghiggins@hpl.hp.co.uk Hewlett-Packard Labs | gjh%ghiggins@hplb.hpl.hp.com Filton Road, Stoke Gifford | gjh%hplb.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa Bristol, U.K. | ...!mcvax!ukc!hplb!gjh Tel: +44 272 799910 x24014 Fax: +44 272 790554 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Disclaimer: My opinions above are exactly that, mine and opinions. ------------------------------------------------------------------
spa@fct.unl.pt (Salvador Pinto Abreu) (06/05/91)
dpg@cs.nott.ac.uk (Dave Gymer) writes:
[...]
Question is, what would you do with more than 4 meg on an ST running TOS (or
MiNT). I've yet to exhaust 4 meg (even with GCC, MGR, and BASH. Emacs coming
soon... :-)
Aha! Once you start using Emacs you'll know what to do with more than
4M. Besides, it would come in handy for use with Minix.
--
-- Salvador Pinto Abreu spa@fct.unl.pt
Universidade Nova de Lisboa, PORTUGALSYSPMZT@gecrdvm1.crd.ge.com (06/05/91)
In article <1991Jun4.112631.10649@cs.nott.ac.uk>, dpg@cs.nott.ac.uk (Dave Gymer) says: > > >Question is, what would you do with more than 4 meg on an ST running TOS (or >MiNT). I've yet to exhaust 4 meg (even with GCC, MGR, and BASH. Emacs coming >soon... :-) >-- Question used to be 'what would you do with more than 128K?' I'm running Neodesk, a 512K Ram disk, Ed_Hak, Neo_Desk CLI, Dr. T's KCS Omega Level II with Tiger, MT32, FB01, and TX81Z patch editors, Song Editor and Copyist loaded. Soon I'll be running XOR with modules for a CZ1 and a Korg 707. Rumor has it (been meaning to look into the doc) that I can run *any* GEM program from in Dr. T's multi-programming environment, so that I can get to Degas and my backgammon program (got to have a little fun sometimes). I'm also planning to retry DCSTUFFER (had a problem with an old version of MACCEL3) so that I can load Breakout (yeah, I know it's silly) and Othello. And maybe I'll even try Cal50 again, though it was doing very strange things last time I tried (but that was also under the old MACCEL3). And I haven't even started working with samples... Incidentally, I keep the machine booted 24 hours (long load time to get just what I'm using now going, let alone what I'm planning). So I'm planning to use up my 4 meg in the not so distant future. Jeez, give a user a few meg and they want a gig... Phil Z
ytsuji@wucc.waseda.ac.jp (Y.Tsuji) (06/06/91)
SLM804, the laser printer, barely runs on a MEGA2. 4 mb is simply not enough if you have other program in memory. Tsuji P.S. I think adding a fast disk (say 900 Kilo bytes/sec) is cost effective than adding two or four megabytes of memory above 4 mb on my old Mega4.
vsnyder@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Van Snyder) (06/06/91)
In article <3153@odin.cs.hw.ac.uk> neil@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Forsyth) writes: >In article <1991Jun4.112631.10649@cs.nott.ac.uk> dpg@cs.nott.ac.uk >(Dave Gymer) writes: >> ... I believe, that the MMU in the STe can >>only handle .25 and 1 meg SIPPS/SIMMS, and these are arranged in two banks, >>which must contain the same amount (hence, memory configurations can only >>be .5 meg, 1 meg, 2 meg, 2.5 meg, and 4 meg). I too have a four meg STe. > ^^^^^^^ > >Nope. TOS 1.6 has a screwed up memory sizer that assumes that if two banks of >RAM exist then both banks are the same size. I don't know if this is a bug >in the true sense or malicious crippling but it is sad. > >BTW, a bank is two SIMMs since memory access is on a word basis. > > 512K = 2 x 256K SIMMs > 1Mb = 4 x 256K SIMMs > 2Mb = 2 x 1Mb SIMMs > 2.5Mb = 2 x 1Mb SIMMs + 2 x 256K SIMMs (Not with TOS 1.6) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I heard this works on TOS 1.6 if you put the 256k SIMMs as the first bank and the 1M SIMMs as the second bank. But I could be wrong. If you're having trouble, though, it's trivial to try it the other way. > 4Mb = 4 x 1Mb SIMMs -- vsnyder@jato.Jpl.Nasa.Gov ames!elroy!jato!vsnyder vsnyder@jato.uucp
dpg@cs.nott.ac.uk (Dave Gymer) (06/06/91)
In article <GJH.91Jun5113632@ghiggins.hpl.hp.com> gjh@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Graham Higgins) writes: >[stuff about 'what to do with >4meg' deleted] >Try CScheme --- it takes 2.5 Mb (itself!) just to see the intro text. If you >actually want to *do* anything (even in 4Mb) you have to forget about MGR, et >al. and run it direct from the DeskTop (gasp). I think GNU SmallTalk is similar. It does seem strange that Atari limited the machine like this. Surely it wouldn't have been much more work to allow the MMU to address the full 16 meg that the 68k can? At least it's better than the Amiga A500 (1 meg max!). -- /* 'Grave' Dave Gymer --------- Internet: dpg@Cs.Nott.AC.UK *\ +* 42 St Marys Park, Louth, Lincolnshire, LN11 0EF, England *+ +* Olivier's Law: "Experience is something you don't get *+ \*-------------------------- until just after you need it." */
camm@els.ee.man.ac.uk (Ian Camm) (06/06/91)
In article <1991Jun5.222630.24777@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> vsnyder@jato.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Van Snyder) writes: >In article <3153@odin.cs.hw.ac.uk> neil@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Forsyth) writes: >>In article <1991Jun4.112631.10649@cs.nott.ac.uk> dpg@cs.nott.ac.uk >>(Dave Gymer) writes: >>> ... I believe, that the MMU in the STe can >>>only handle .25 and 1 meg SIPPS/SIMMS, and these are arranged in two banks, >>>which must contain the same amount (hence, memory configurations can only >>>be .5 meg, 1 meg, 2 meg, 2.5 meg, and 4 meg). I too have a four meg STe. >> ^^^^^^^ >> >>Nope. TOS 1.6 has a screwed up memory sizer that assumes that if two banks of >>RAM exist then both banks are the same size. I don't know if this is a bug >>in the true sense or malicious crippling but it is sad. >> >>BTW, a bank is two SIMMs since memory access is on a word basis. >> >> 512K = 2 x 256K SIMMs >> 1Mb = 4 x 256K SIMMs >> 2Mb = 2 x 1Mb SIMMs >> 2.5Mb = 2 x 1Mb SIMMs + 2 x 256K SIMMs (Not with TOS 1.6) > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >I heard this works on TOS 1.6 if you put the 256k SIMMs as the first bank >and the 1M SIMMs as the second bank. But I could be wrong. If you're >having trouble, though, it's trivial to try it the other way. >> 4Mb = 4 x 1Mb SIMMs Well 2.5Mb does work on my 520STE with TOS 1.6, but it does think there are 4Mb there. I have not had any problems yet but I have not (knowingly) tried to use all of the memory thus far. I have the feeling that when I do I will commit mass bit murder :-) by trying to throw them into spaces that aren't there. I will try changing the boards round and let you know what happens. n e w s f o d d e r Cheers, Ian -- Ian Camm | JANET: camm@uk.ac.man.ee.els Dept. of Electrical Engineering | ARPA: camm@els.ee.man.ac.uk University of Manchester, England | UUCP: ...!!ukc!man.ee.els!camm Disclaimer: If you think I need one make it up yourself.
Roger.Sheppard@actrix.gen.nz (Roger Sheppard) (06/06/91)
In article <1991Jun6.104706.24529@cs.nott.ac.uk> dpg@cs.nott.ac.uk (Dave Gymer) writes: > In article <GJH.91Jun5113632@ghiggins.hpl.hp.com> gjh@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Graham Higgins) writes: > >[stuff about 'what to do with >4meg' deleted] > >Try CScheme --- it takes 2.5 Mb (itself!) just to see the intro text. If you > >actually want to *do* anything (even in 4Mb) you have to forget about MGR, et > >al. and run it direct from the DeskTop (gasp). > > I think GNU SmallTalk is similar. It does seem strange that Atari limited the > machine like this. Surely it wouldn't have been much more work to allow the > MMU to address the full 16 meg that the 68k can? At least it's better than > the Amiga A500 (1 meg max!). > -- > /* 'Grave' Dave Gymer --------- Internet: dpg@Cs.Nott.AC.UK *\ > +* 42 St Marys Park, Louth, Lincolnshire, LN11 0EF, England *+ > +* Olivier's Law: "Experience is something you don't get *+ > \*-------------------------- until just after you need it." */ There was some thing posted here , was it last year from a German chap, that could bank switch the rams to give , was it 6-8 megs, but I could be wrong, I could still have the Posing stuck on a follopy some where, if I remember gave details on how to do it. but a still can't see how you can refresh the rams. -- *** Roger W. Sheppard * Roger.Sheppard@bbs.actrix.gen.nz *** *** 85 Donovan Rd * * At least I don't Flicker, not *** *** Kapiti New Zealand.. * like a dying light globe. ! ***
don@chopin.udel.edu (Donald R Lloyd) (06/07/91)
In article <1991Jun6.104706.24529@cs.nott.ac.uk> dpg@cs.nott.ac.uk (Dave Gymer) writes: >MMU to address the full 16 meg that the 68k can? At least it's better than >the Amiga A500 (1 meg max!). There are plenty of third-party expansion devices to take the A500 to as much as 9 megs; you just can't get such devices from Commodore. -- Gibberish May the Publications Editor, AmigaNetwork is spoken fork() be Amiga Student On-Campus Consultant, U of D here. with you. DISCLAIMER: It's all YOUR fault.
twmanino@taco.cc (TONY W MANINO) (06/07/91)
>>Nope. TOS 1.6 has a screwed up memory sizer that assumes that if two banks of >>RAM exist then both banks are the same size. I don't know if this is a bug >>in the true sense or malicious crippling but it is sad. >> >>BTW, a bank is two SIMMs since memory access is on a word basis. >> >> 512K = 2 x 256K SIMMs >> 1Mb = 4 x 256K SIMMs >> 2Mb = 2 x 1Mb SIMMs >> 2.5Mb = 2 x 1Mb SIMMs + 2 x 256K SIMMs (Not with TOS 1.6) > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >I heard this works on TOS 1.6 if you put the 256k SIMMs as the first bank >and the 1M SIMMs as the second bank. But I could be wrong. If you're >having trouble, though, it's trivial to try it the other way. >> 4Mb = 4 x 1Mb SIMMs There's a file at atari.archive that fixes the 2.5 meg problem... It's called SIMMFIX. You put it in your auto folder. It reprograms the MMU, then does a warmstart. I get 2 bombs on the first boot attempt, but when the machine resets, it does just fine. Any subsequent warmstarts just boot right up. Be sure to read the instructions.... Hope this helps, Tony twmanino@eos.ncsu.edu
Roger.Sheppard@actrix.gen.nz (Roger Sheppard) (06/07/91)
In article <1991Jun7.004215.1721@ncsu.edu> twmanino@eos.ncsu.edu writes: > >>Nope. TOS 1.6 has a screwed up memory sizer that assumes that if two banks of > >>RAM exist then both banks are the same size. I don't know if this is a bug > >>in the true sense or malicious crippling but it is sad. > >> > >>BTW, a bank is two SIMMs since memory access is on a word basis. > >> > >> 512K = 2 x 256K SIMMs > >> 1Mb = 4 x 256K SIMMs > >> 2Mb = 2 x 1Mb SIMMs > >> 2.5Mb = 2 x 1Mb SIMMs + 2 x 256K SIMMs (Not with TOS 1.6) > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >I heard this works on TOS 1.6 if you put the 256k SIMMs as the first bank > >and the 1M SIMMs as the second bank. But I could be wrong. If you're > >having trouble, though, it's trivial to try it the other way. > >> 4Mb = 4 x 1Mb SIMMs > > There's a file at atari.archive that fixes the 2.5 meg problem... It's called > SIMMFIX. > > You put it in your auto folder. It reprograms the MMU, then does a warmstart. > > I get 2 bombs on the first boot attempt, but when the machine resets, it does > just fine. Any subsequent warmstarts just boot right up. > > Be sure to read the instructions.... > > > Hope this helps, > Tony > twmanino@eos.ncsu.edu Get Version 2 of simm fix, it states that the problem is with the OS and not the MMU, I have played with a STE with 2.5 megs and found no problems ?? and the MMU had the correct bits set in it.. -- *** Roger W. Sheppard * Roger.Sheppard@bbs.actrix.gen.nz *** *** 85 Donovan Rd * * At least I don't Flicker, not *** *** Kapiti New Zealand.. * like a dying light globe. ! ***
john@castle.ed.ac.uk (John Hannah) (06/07/91)
In article <1991Jun5.222630.24777@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> vsnyder@jato.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Van Snyder) writes: >> 2.5Mb = 2 x 1Mb SIMMs + 2 x 256K SIMMs (Not with TOS 1.6) > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >I heard this works on TOS 1.6 if you put the 256k SIMMs as the first bank >and the 1M SIMMs as the second bank. But I could be wrong. If you're >having trouble, though, it's trivial to try it the other way. >> 4Mb = 4 x 1Mb SIMMs I'm afraid it doesn't work the other way!! I have one of the dreaded STEs with soldered SIPS rather than SIMMS and when I added memory I tried to put 1Mb chips in the second bank with the 256K (soldered in) SIPS in the first. The machine only thought it had 1Mb!! I had to unsolder the first bank and put the 1Mb chips there (I added in-line sockets of course!). My system has 2.5Mb but TOS thinks it has 4Mb. It seems to cause few problems unless I try to use more than 2.5Mb!! I havn't tried the famed SIMMFIX yet. John Hannah Electrical Engineering, University of Edinburgh, UK
neil@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Forsyth) (06/10/91)
In article <2642@m1.cs.man.ac.uk> camm@els.ee.man.ac.uk (Ian Camm) writes: > Well 2.5Mb does work on my 520STE with TOS 1.6, but it does think there >are 4Mb there. I have not had any problems yet but I have not (knowingly) >tried to use all of the memory thus far. I have the feeling that when I >do I will commit mass bit murder :-) by trying to throw them into spaces that >aren't there. I will try changing the boards round and let you know what >happens. What you have is 2.5Mb of RAM with the last 512K duplicated 4 times. Your machine thinks it has 4Mb. If you create a 2Mb RAM disk that sits in low RAM then use your machine you'll see weird behaviour as the multiple images get used. You need a little patch program that checks phystop and the memory controller at bootup andif it's 4Mb set it to 2.5Mb then reboot. Actually what we all need is for Atari to fix the &^%*$ ROMs! Does TOS 1.62 have the same problem? >Ian Camm | JANET: camm@uk.ac.man.ee.els >Dept. of Electrical Engineering | ARPA: camm@els.ee.man.ac.uk >University of Manchester, England | UUCP: ...!!ukc!man.ee.els!camm >Disclaimer: If you think I need one make it up yourself. +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ! DISCLAIMER:Unless otherwise stated, the above comments are entirely my own ! ! ! ! Neil Forsyth JANET: neil@uk.ac.hw.cs ! ! Dept. of Computer Science ARPA: neil@cs.hw.ac.uk ! ! Heriot-Watt University UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!neil ! ! Edinburgh, Scotland, UK "That was never 5 SIMMs!" ! +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
avgroeni@cs.ruu.nl (Annius Groenink) (06/10/91)
Yes. There exists an autoboot program named SIMMFIX.
The ONLY thing it does is check if the computer THINKS it has 4 MB
and the MMU says it has 2.5MB. Then, it sets the MEMTOP correctly,
and reboots.
^^^^^^^
- several descriptions are around of what happens then.
Some get bombs, some don't, my computer didn't do anything,
that is, the memtop wasn't corrected at all. I rewrote the
program: it jumped to the hd_init vector (or something sounding
alike) in stead of taking the real reset vector, which had the
effect that my machine (with no Hard Disk) did not reset. I changed
this, and it worked fine.
If I'm talking nonsense, please state so on the news. If someone's interested,
do the same, by mail. At this moment, my STE is at the manufacturer for the famous
HD-problem (problem #2 :-/ ) for some months already. I have not had the opportunity
to test anything I said here.
--
________________________________________________________
Annius Groenink|undergraduate student
Laan van Borgele 24|maths/computer science at the
7415 DJ Deventer|University of Utrecht, Holland.spa@fct.unl.pt (Salvador Pinto Abreu) (06/11/91)
Salvador.Pinto.Abreu@f98.n250.z1.FidoNet.Org??? Do I have an alias out there? On FidoNet? Ahhh... News software can _always_ surprise me :-) -- -- Salvador Pinto Abreu spa@fct.unl.pt Universidade Nova de Lisboa, PORTUGAL
michaels@messua.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (Michael Schwingen) (06/13/91)
Hi, I don't know what the STE hardware is like, but it IS possible to connect more than 4MB to an orinary ST. There is a company (I think 'Richter Daten- technik' or something like that) somewhere in Germany/Switzerland (??) who sells an expansion which can handle 12 or 14 MB - but it's quite expensive. A friend of mine has just developed such a thing. It works fine at up to 14 MB - but it's only a prototype now. It is a bit more complicated then connecting 1-4MB to the existing MMU - you have to build part of a new MMU to handle the memory above 4MB and do some other nasty things in order to get the video system use the additional memory - but it can be done. I think it should be possible on a STE, too. Michael Schwingen, Germany ------- please keep email from outside germany SHORT --------- email: michaels%cip-s01.informatik.rwth-aachen.de@unido.bitnet