ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill) (06/23/91)
First let me begin this message by paying Atari users a kind remark...Atari
users are smart, much in the same way as Amiga owners. We have both choosen
our machines based on the facts, and the facts are that IBM and Apple computers
don't offer us power for the price. IBM is too controlled by dull and generic
standards, and Apple almost has to sell machines at three times what they are
worth in order to keep up their BMW-like image. We have choosen our machines
because they were simply the best (one more so than the other :')) for the
price.
As of late, Atari has taken a sudden turn for the worse. The new machines
didn't live up to their promise of having better features than their Amiga
twin. Software vendors, shows, and even magazines are jumping ship as a result
of the somewhat flat sales of the new machines. Even Atari's best feature,
good MIDI software, is weakening as several of those authors port their
software to the Amiga. Atari has gone deep into debt and not even a rumor of a
totally new computer, if that rumor existed, looks to offer hope.
On the other hand, Amiga sales are higher than ever. New prices, better
outlet exposure, recent introduction of high quality professional software,
new "media" hits (Toaster, CDTV, AmigaVision), recent introduction of leasing
programs and onsight service that even IBM and Apple don't offer, all of this
and more has resulted in a big year for Commodore. Sales are way up. Even the
3000 is sold out right now. The recent trade-up program, which will give you
massive discounts if you already own a Commodore, has put the 3000 in reach
for even lowly Vic-20 owners. The Amiga went well over 3 million units some
months ago and, if sales continue at this pace, could go over 4.5 million by
the end of this year. It is said that Commodore just experienced their most
profitable quarter in history, and Commodore stock is higher than it has been
in years. CDTV, which many predict to be the biggest electronics smash since
"Nintendo", has received much press and will be advertised by Commodore in a
big way this fall.
As a result, the trickle of Atari users switching to the Amiga has (in my
*limited* view) turned into a flood recently. Because of my exposure through
messages here on Cleveland Free-Net, I have received several requests for
information to smooth the conversion from the Atari to the Amiga. I do this as
a service to fellow computer users. If you need any advice on file conversion,
where to buy Amiga-related hardware for the best price, information on the
Atari ST emulators out for the Amiga, or have any other questions related to
the Atari-to-Amiga conversion process, please feel free to write me via Email.
Please note: I'm not impressed by stupid remarks and swear words from those
who still love their Atari. You have every right to stick with your choice.
Please allow others to do what they feel is right.
Tom
Why purchase a MAC when an Amiga with the same CPU will run 99% of all
__ MAC software..and FASTER at that?! The same can be said of the IBM and
__/// Atari computers, and I can run those in a window. IBM's greatest sales
\XX/ tool is ignorance on the consumer's part. IBM=(I)'ve (B)een (M)islead.
A If you want to be popular then buy a MAC....If you want to be powerful
M then buy an Amiga..and use all that money you save to buy friends. :')
I Classic=B&W, no blitter, no DMA, almost no sound, almost no expansion,
G price tag of $1000. Amiga 500=4096 colors, DMA galore, great sound, an
A 86 pin expansion port, price tag of $500. Confused? Only the Amiga!!!!
ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill) (06/23/91)
aa399@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Len Stys) writes: >I have just read the message posted by Thomas Hill, SysOp of the Commodore >SIG on the Cleveland Free-Net. Nice to see you here on the Atari UseNet SIG, Len. I'm afraid you've once again made the mistake of calling me the Sysop of the Commodore SIG on the Cleveland Free-Net. Let's hope this is the last time I have to say this... I am not the System Operator of the Commodore SIG on Cleveland Free-net. >There is no proof that Atari is doing bad anywhere. There is no proof that >anyone is switching over to Amiga and if there are some, I am sure the same >amount are switching to the ST. Even some members of your SIG in very high "positions" have asked me details on switching to the Amiga. I was asked to not print their names, so I won't. Since your an avid reader of the "computer forum", you should know that I always complain that people make statements without any proof. I'm a big believer in facts, and putting your money where your mouth is. Much of the source material for these statements comes from your very SIG. Exactly what statements don't you agree with? I have source material for everything down to the Atari music authors switching to the Amiga. I like to think that I never make a remark without the facts to back it up. Please try to do the same. >Thomas Hill is famous for attempting to "scare" Atari users into becomming >Amiga users, especially on the Cleveland Free-Net. I should know, I am the >Atari SIG Manager on the Cleveland Free-Net. This statement is uncalled for. I never try to "scare" people into buying an Amiga. I present the facts and allow you to make up your own mind. Again, most of the information I post simply came right from the MAC or Atari SIG. I do "try" to inform people. I believe that most people buy a computer with no real knowledge of how it compares to other systems. This is what I am trying to change. >There is no proof and frankly, I believe Tom just made up information on the >new Atari computers being a flop because he doesn't really know and would like >to think so. I can even give you remarks from Atari users in this very SIG to support that statement. And I never make up information. To do that would be a turn from the facts. The facts our that the Atari sales are slowing. The initial sales flow of the new machines was mainly due to Atari users upgrading. >Many claim, especially developers that the TT030 will be easier to develop >quality software on the TT than the Amiga. I'd like to wait and find out. I'd love to hear your facts to support this statement. The Amiga is well known for it's excellent library of support routines. I've always heard people say that the Amiga is a dream to program on. Never heard it the other way around. >After all, the TT030 hasn't even made it to the U.S. yet! It is at least >one-year newer than the Amiga 3000 and I'm sure Atari had enough time to >examine that of its competitors to bring you- a superior machine. Being released a year after the 3000 has nothing to do with it being a newer machine. This just enforces Atari's rap of showing products long before they are ready. Remember the big discussion we had about the new Atari computers? You liked to call them "totally new computers", while I made the point that they are simply the old machines with minor upgrades here and there. They still didn't offer better special chip ability than what the Amiga already had. These are repackaged machines, not totally new ones. I wish Atari would have released a totally new line from the ground up. It would have made the market competitive again and it probably was the only thing that could have saved them. >The Mega STe will be selling for $1400 with 55 meg hard drive, 2 megs of RAM, >LAN, etc. at an Atari Dealer in my home town. This is an amazing price >and I definitely do not see failure there. Not a bad price, but not the best price either. >Atari has had trouble manufacturing enough computers to compete properly. I find the recent remark on this curious. Atari has had trouble selling computers. What makes you think fixing a plant problem will increase sales? >And don't worry about ST computer users switching to Amigas on Free-Net. >They would be switching a computer that is supported by a SIG with a great >amount of information to a computer with a SIG that only has "my computer >is better than yours" messages throughout it. Len, once again your not exactly right. Len had tried to make it sound like this discussion has gone on in the Commodore Amiga Forum on Free-Net. Not so. A new section was set aside, called "The Computer Forum", for all computer users to discuss and compare the powers of their systems. This is not an Amiga board, not a Commodore board, but a board for the discussion of all computers. Saying that the Amiga SIG does not support it's users is a remark based in no fact. I know your SIG supports it's users. Never said it didn't. If you'll kindly read over a small list below of titles found in the Amiga SIG then I think we can clear up this small misunderstanding... From the Amiga Forum... First message is #17, last message is #239 R 216. USENET REPOST: Videography Magazine On Amiga R 217. Hands-on Toaster impressions R 218. COMDEX IN CLEVELAND? R 219. How about a "Programmers' Forum?" R 220. AmigaUUCP R 221. How to find Maple? => R 222. USENET REPOST: CDTV AT CES R 223. USENET REPOST: Fushion 68040 Board R 224. USENET REPOST: Ad For CDTV R 225. USENET REPOST: AMAX Compatibility R 226. USENET REPOST: CDTV In InfoWorld R 227. USENET REPOST: CDTV Reactions R 228. USENET REPOST: CDTV Titles R 229. USENET REPOST: Comeau C++ Review R 230. USENET REPOST: More On InfoWorld And CDTV R 231. USENET REPOST: More CDTV News R 232. USENET REPOST: IEEE Spectrum Magazine On 3000UX R 233. USENET REPOST: Amiga Spotted On Home Show => R 234. USENET REPOST: CDTV Spotted On CNN R 235. USENET REPOST: USER GROUPS- DEMO CDTV OFFER! R 236. USENET REPOST: CDTV Upgrade News R 237. USENET REPOST: Commodore SemiConductor In News R 238. NOTICE TO NEW USERS OF THIS SIG!!! R 239. Prodigy From the Amiga Q & A Forum... R 24. Re: Amiga 500 as IBM compat. R 25. Re: bad sprites ?? R 26. Re: Amiga hard drives................ R 27. Re: IFF->MAC converter, anyone? R 28. Re: Amiga hard drives................ R 29. Re: Amiga 500 as IBM compat. => R 30. Fonts (Hebrew) R 31. Video Inteference R 32. A1000 keyboard R 33. Amiga 1000 & the printer port R 34. Software via FTP. R 35. Re: Software via FTP. R 36. Re: Amiga 1000 & the printer port R 37. New A3000 R 38. VT220 emulator R 39. Re: New A3000 R 40. Re: VT220 emulator R 41. Alegra Upgrade => R 42. Amiga Basic: suggestions wanted on how to learn it As you can see, no messages about "my computer being better than yours". In the computer forum there are a fair number of pro-Atari and IBM messages as well as Amiga messages. Tom
darling@cellar.UUCP (Darling) (06/23/91)
ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill) writes: > Even Atari's best feature, > good MIDI software, is weakening as several of those authors port their > software to the Amiga. Ever met a professional producer, Tom? We use the best programs available on any computer: C-Lab's CREATOR/NOTATOR for sequencing, Digidesign's ATARI SOUND TOOLS for digital audio recording/editing, and POLYFRAME for patch editing. None, I repeat, NONE of these have been ported to the Amiga. And unless future Amiga machines clean up the severe MIDI timing problems they've got now, they never will be. > On the other hand, Amiga sales are higher than ever. Bzzzt! Commodore just posted its worst figures in 4 years. > If you need any advice on file conversion, > where to buy Amiga-related hardware for the best price, information on the > Atari ST emulators out for the Amiga, or have any other questions related to I'll save you the time, Tom. Amiga ST emulators blow. They're all slow, buggy, and none, I say again NONE, work properly with any MIDI software whatsoever. Makes ME want to rush out and buy one, so I can play 32-million- coloured games instead of all that WORK I'm getting done now. > I have received several requests for > information to smooth the conversion from the Atari to the Amiga. I do this as > a service to fellow computer users. You noble soul! The self-sacrifice! In turn, I offer to help YOU smooth the conversion of your lips from their present location to my sweaty posterior. I do this as a service! Tom, I haven't read such a heap of bunk it a long time. If you're frustrated that your computer isn't being used in any professional environment, fine. But don't come over here and shovel propaganda and outright false statements in an effort to get others to join you in your malcontence. Grow up. A "my computer is better" rant under any other name smells equally bad, no matter how you may attempt to dress it up. ^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\\\^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ darling@cellar.UUCP \\\ Thomas Darling * record production * dance re-mixing uunet!cellar!darling \\\ Fact HQ Studio * The Cellar BBS:215/336-9503 * FACT v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~\\\~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~
seimet@rhrk.uni-kl.de (Uwe Seimet [Chemie]) (06/24/91)
ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill) writes:
.... all this stuff deleted ...
Amiga users are happy with their machines, atari users like the ST or TT.
I think this is ok, so why fight about it?
********************************************************
* Uwe Seimet *
* seimet@rhrk.uni-kl.de *
*------------------------------------------------------*
* I hate this machine, I wish that they would sell it. *
* It doesn't do what I want but only what I tell it. *
* (Programmer's lament) *
********************************************************steve@thelake.mn.org (Steve Yelvington) (06/24/91)
Please keep the juvenile user war crap in Cleveland, and off Usenet. It serves no purpose related to comp.sys.atari.st.
aa399@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Len Stys) (06/24/91)
I'm responding to the following message: From: steve@thelake.mn.org (Steve Yelvington) Please keep the juvenile user war crap in Cleveland, and off Usenet. It serves no purpose related to comp.sys.atari.st. This has nothing to do with Cleveland. You would have to be a juvenile user to think it did. This has to do with spreading around false rumors by people to scare Atari computer users into leaving their computer. I think it is wrong so I said something about it. Ok? --
don@chopin.udel.edu (Donald R Lloyd) (06/24/91)
In article <BR4Z41w164w@cellar.UUCP> darling@cellar.UUCP (Darling) writes: >ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill) writes: >Ever met a professional producer, Tom? We use the best programs available on >any computer: C-Lab's CREATOR/NOTATOR for sequencing, Digidesign's ATARI >SOUND TOOLS for digital audio recording/editing, and POLYFRAME for patch >editing. None, I repeat, NONE of these have been ported to the Amiga. And >unless future Amiga machines clean up the severe MIDI timing problems they've >got now, they never will be. > Don't know much about MIDI, but I've never heard of Ami having any kind of timing problems. I know the Dr. T's software has been moved to the Amiga; other MIDI sw I know of includes MusicX, Bars & Pipes, & B&P pro. >> On the other hand, Amiga sales are higher than ever. > >Bzzzt! Commodore just posted its worst figures in 4 years. Funny, the last stockholders' report got from CBM indicated that 1Q & 2Q 91 were among its best quarters ever. Something like a 50% increase in unit sales in Europe alone? Outsold IBM in Britain last year? CDTV & Video Toaster recieving good press all over the US? Selling so many A3000's via the Power Up Program that they're back ordered for weeks? Please name your sources for the above comments. >> If you need any advice on file conversion, >> where to buy Amiga-related hardware for the best price, information on the >> Atari ST emulators out for the Amiga, or have any other questions related >to > >I'll save you the time, Tom. Amiga ST emulators blow. They're all slow, >buggy, and none, I say again NONE, work properly with any MIDI software MAST makes one that claims to do so, but I've never tried it & probably won't. [Insults, disinformation, etc. deleted] >But don't come over here and shovel propaganda and outright false statements >in an effort to get others to join you in your malcontence. Grow up. A "my >computer is better" rant under any other name smells equally bad, no matter >how you may attempt to dress it up. > Thom was wrong in posting here to begin with; I would, however, follow your own advice (last quoted paragraph above) in replying to such messages. -- Gibberish May the Publications Editor, AmigaNetwork is spoken fork() be Amiga Student On-Campus Consultant, U of D here. with you. DISCLAIMER: It's all YOUR fault.
scott@cs.odu.edu (Scott D. Yelich) (06/24/91)
In article <9106231954.AA23332@cwns2.INS.CWRU.Edu> aa399@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Len Stys) writes: > This has to do with spreading around false rumors by people to scare Atari > computer users into leaving their computer. > I think it is wrong so I said something about it. Guys, I have always kept my fingers FAR far far far from the followup keys when reading articles such as this... but I will finally make a post and don't lecture me about wasting bandwidth-- take THAT to IRC. Anyway, my ST does what I need a computer to do. Most people don't have the money nor the need to get a super home computer. For years now I have had people ask me about which personal computer to purchase. I tell them that if they go into a Macintosh dealer, they will probably be told that the Mac is the answer to life and all their problems. If they go to an IBM dealer, they will probably be told that the IBM (or clone) is the answer to life and all their problems. The same is true of an Atari dealer and an Amiga and any other dealer. It's called sales. My opinion is that if you are in the market for a computer, you really need to decide what you are going to be doing on that computer. You must then do a little research into what is available that will meet your needs and then you should find a platform that will provide what you need. It never ceases to amaze me how much sales people try to oversell a system. I love to listen to IBM (or clone) salespeople explaining all the display options and cpu speeds to someone who wouldn't know a MHz from a pixel. MY atari does what I need it to do. I'm 100% positive that YOUR Amiga also would do what I would want it to do. Now, since I have an Atari and it does what I want, I am not going to purchase a Sun SLC, Amiga 3000 nor any other computer that will mean that I need to spend thousands of additional dollars for very little gain. for people who do not yeat have a lot of money invested, there might just be some room for comparison, but it's never necessary to lie to try to get people to do anything. As far as people thinking "the computer makes the man" (or the woman), well, I certainly don't mind if people keep selling their Atari products to switch over to Amiga.... because I will have a continuous supply of inexpensive used equipment. Reminds me of how I got my great set of gold clubs.... It seems that the "IN" thing to do if you are rich and play golf is to purchase a snew set of clubs every year. Hmm, guess what happens to the old clubs? Yup, many times they are given to charity or other groups. that is what this whole "mine is better than yours" argument reminds me of-- I simply say I am happy and satisfied with what I have invested in and I will make up my own mind if and when there is a time to move on. Unfortunately, not everyone is a computer hobbyist as I am and so they may be presented with "this is better than that" arguments from whereever they go to purchase or investigate a computer and may be persuaded to follow a path they may not have intended to follow. To me, this is the root of the problem, if people would purchase what they need and not what other people tell them that they need, I feel more people will be satisfied with what they end up with. Perhaps then even less attention will be paid to this topic than is given to it now. Thank you for allowing me to finally express my opinion and I hope no one will take this post as an argument or "flame" for or against anyone or any computer. If I must directly state my point, it is that I feel that people should be allowed to make up their own mind and do as they wish and it is unnecessary to work on someone's will and resolve simply because you feel they may have made a bad choice. Scott
scale@abode.ttank.com (Luis Outumuro) (06/24/91)
Hi Thomas (Darling), Your comments to Thomas (Hill) hit the mark quite well... "Tom, I haven't read such a heap of bunk it a long time. If you're frustrated that your computer isn't being used in any professional environment, fine. But don't come over here and shovel propaganda and outright false statements in an effort to get others to join you in your malcontence. Grow up. A "my computer is better" rant under any other name smells equally bad, no matter how you may attempt to dress it up." A bit of humor..... "You noble soul! The self-sacrifice! In turn, I offer to help YOU smooth the conversion of your lips from their present location to my sweaty posterior. I do this as a service!" Where does he get those wonderful lines?! =^) Thanks for saying what many of the rest of us would not have bothered to say. Bye.......... Luis
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (06/24/91)
In article <BR4Z41w164w@cellar.UUCP> darling@cellar.UUCP (Darling) writes: >ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill) writes: > >> On the other hand, Amiga sales are higher than ever. > >Bzzzt! Commodore just posted its worst figures in 4 years. > I had NO intention of getting into this thread. I thought I'd read it for the humor content. BUT, you are totally wrong, and that shouldn't stand. Commodore IS having its best quarters in a very long time. The Christmas quarter (from Oct. 1 -- Dec. 31, 1990) they had their 3rd largest sales EVER and earnings were tripled from the prior year quarter. The last quarter (Jan. 1 -- Mar. 31, 1991) was also well above the prior year quarter, with something like a 10% increase in sales and a large increase in earnings (primarily cause they were so bad the year before), something like $10 or $11 million. -- Ethan "...Know-Nothing-Bozo the Non-Wonder Dog, an animal so stupid that it had been sacked from one of Will's own commercials for being incapable of knowing which dog food it was supposed to prefer, despite the fact that the meat in all the other bowls had engine oil poured all over it."
rjast1@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Robert J Anisko) (06/24/91)
In article <1991Jun24.005749.777@abode.ttank.com> scale@abode.ttank.com (Luis Outumuro) writes: > > Hi Thomas (Darling), > Your comments to Thomas (Hill) hit the mark quite well... > >"Tom, I haven't read such a heap of bunk it a long time. If you're frustrated >that your computer isn't being used in any professional environment, fine. >But don't come over here and shovel propaganda and outright false statements >in an effort to get others to join you in your malcontence. Grow up. A "my >computer is better" rant under any other name smells equally bad, no matter >how you may attempt to dress it up." > > A bit of humor..... > >"You noble soul! The self-sacrifice! In turn, I offer to help YOU smooth the >conversion of your lips from their present location to my sweaty posterior. >I do this as a service!" > > Where does he get those wonderful lines?! =^) Thanks for saying what >many of the rest of us would not have bothered to say. Bye.......... > > Luis I'm just wondering what our dear friend over in Commie-land (Amiga, not USSR <grin>) would feel if someone were to step into their message base and kindly show them how to convert over from Commodore to the Atari. While this is called a "friendly" thing, for one no one on here asked for this "help." If someone wants help, do it in PRIVATE. It remins me of something done in wartime and even during Desert Storm: drop tons of propoganda on the enemy telling them step by step how to surrender (many of the Iraqi soldiers who surrendered carried these "information slips"). While I admit it is a stretch comparing this to the war, the point is that the same strategy/technique is being employed. or in short: I didn't ask, I don't remember seeing ANY postings here about it, and thus we really ain't interested in your "help." So I kindly ask our noble friend to save his blessings for those who want and need it - in the Commodore section... end, fine, et al... Robert Anisko rjast1@unix.cis.pitt.edu
jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca (John Henders) (06/24/91)
In <30270@know.pws.bull.com>, Thomas Hill writes:
<Tons of Amiga vs Atari junk deleted.>
Please move this to comp.sys.amiga.advocacy where it belongs.
--
John Henders jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca
MIND over MIDI Productions or ubc.cs!van-bc!jonh!jhenders
Vancouver,B.C peter@Sugar.NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) (06/24/91)
In article <BR4Z41w164w@cellar.UUCP> darling@cellar.UUCP (Darling) writes: > And unless future Amiga machines clean up the severe MIDI timing problems > they've got now, they never will be. Oh boy, this was a design problem in the first MIDI software on the Amiga, has nothing to do with anything Commodore is responsible for, and hasn't been a *real* problem for years. We've run heavy MIDI streams through multi- program pipes, the MIDI clock on the Amiga (using the CIA timers) never skipped a beat, and CPU usage sat at 9%... -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>. 'U` "Have you hugged your wolf today?"
peter@Sugar.NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) (06/24/91)
In article <SCOTT.91Jun23172143@breeze.cs.odu.edu> scott@cs.odu.edu (Scott D. Yelich) writes: > Anyway, my ST does what I need a computer to do. Most people don't > have the money nor the need to get a super home computer. Well then, it's good that the Amiga 500 costs $500. > For years now I have had people ask me about which personal computer to > purchase. Amiga. I pushed the machine before I ever got one. I put off buying a personal computer for 6 years waiting for something like the Amiga to come out. There is still, 6 years later, *NO* other personal computer with an operating system that satisfies my *minimum* functionality requirements, unless you go out and buy a UNIX box. And at that it's one of the cheapest machines out there. > MY atari does what I need it to do. You're satisfied, but have you used a real computer? I've been there. I borrowed an IBM clone for a while, then an Atari ST. It's called shopping around. The productivity improvement from reliable, efficient, and responsive multitasking is amazing. There really is a basic, fundamental difference between the Amiga and the rest. Your arguments make good sense when comparing Ataris and Mac and IBMs, but there *is* something better. And *you* don't have to wait 6 years to find it, like I did. -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>. 'U` "Have you hugged your wolf today?"
ftower@ncar.ucar.EDU (Francis Tower) (06/24/91)
Childish and parochial are the most vociferous. Please desist your outhouse scrawlings. In your defensive zeal you are in danger of appearing less than mature. Thankyou Mr Hill for your offer. If you need assistance porting to a Cray YMP or a Connection Machine feel free to contact me. << Middle Aged Mutant Ninja Modlers >>
ele9110@cdc835.cdc.polimi.it (Massimo Oluzzi) (06/24/91)
Hello, this is an abstract from the periodically posted files "Welcome" I found on comp.sys.atari.st some time ago. Please read this and REMEMBER. I think no more replies will be needed... >Subject: welcome to comp.sys.atari.st >Author: David Paschall-Zimbel (davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu) > Welcome to comp.sys.atari.st ============================ >This newsgroup is devoted to discussion about 16 bit Atari micros. ========================= >At present that includes the Atari 520ST, 1040ST, Mega ST, STe, STacy, Mega STe >and the Atari TT. There are also emulators for the Apple Macintosh and IBM >PC/XT/AT available. Finally, there is the Lynx (a game machine) and the Atari >ATW. >Most of the people who read this newsgroup are technically oriented. ===================================================================== >The newsgroup serves as a resource for Atari users ... ^^^^^^^^^^^ ... >What sort of articles would interest people reading comp.sys.atari.st? >====================================================================== >The most interesting articles are technical articles, impressions of >software/hardware, information on Atari user-groups and shows, or helpful >hints on how to make better use of the machine and its software. >The least interesting articles are in the form of 'my computer is better ========================================================================= >than...', especially when cross-posted outside of comp.sys.atari.st. ===================================================================== I'm hoping they have a similar manifest on comp.sys.amiga ! Ciao. Massimo ele9110@cdc835.cdc.polimi.it
darling@cellar.UUCP (Darling) (06/24/91)
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >In article <BR4Z41w164w@cellar.UUCP> darling@cellar.UUCP (Darling) writes: >ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill) writes: > >>> On the other hand, Amiga sales are higher than ever. >> >>Bzzzt! Commodore just posted its worst figures in 4 years. >> > I had NO intention of getting into this thread. I thought >I'd read it for the humor content. BUT, you are totally wrong, >and that shouldn't stand. Hmmm...Ethan, you're not the only person who didn't get the joke here. Put the statement back in its original context and read it again. Sorry so esoteric... /l ^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\\\^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ darling@cellar.UUCP \\\ Thomas Darling * record production * dance re-mixing uunet!cellar!darling \\\ Fact HQ Studio * The Cellar BBS:215/336-9503 * FACT v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~\\\~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~
malay@sae.com (Bob Malay) (06/24/91)
NET-NOISE! Bob Malay
chuj@horton.Colorado.EDU (CHU JEFFREY) (06/25/91)
In article <1991Jun24.110408.29984@Sugar.NeoSoft.com> peter@Sugar.NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) writes: >In article <SCOTT.91Jun23172143@breeze.cs.odu.edu> scott@cs.odu.edu (Scott D. Yelich) writes: > >> MY atari does what I need it to do. > >You're satisfied, but have you used a real computer? > What do you define as a REAL COMPUTER? As an ex-AMIGA user, I only knew the AMIGA as more of a game machine than a serious business machine, the ST was known for the business applications. For me the ATARI systems are more of a real machine than any AMIGA systems. >I've been there. I borrowed an IBM clone for a while, then an Atari ST. It's >called shopping around. The productivity improvement from reliable, efficient, >and responsive multitasking is amazing. > >There really is a basic, fundamental difference between the Amiga and the rest. >Your arguments make good sense when comparing Ataris and Mac and IBMs, but >there *is* something better. > I wonder how far have you gone in comparing AMIGA machines to others, AMIGA Fusion Forty Accelerator board is worse than a 486-25 Performance. AMIGA flickers quite alot, NTSC standard VGA cards are available to IBM with non-flicker options. >And *you* don't have to wait 6 years to find it, like I did. >-- >Peter da Silva. `-_-' <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>. > 'U` "Have you hugged your wolf today?" Jeff
ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill) (06/25/91)
darling@cellar.UUCP (Darling) writes: %ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill) writes: > Even Atari's best feature, > good MIDI software, is weakening as several of those authors port their > software to the Amiga. %Ever met a professional producer, Tom? We use the best programs available on %any computer: C-Lab's CREATOR/NOTATOR for sequencing, Digidesign's ATARI %SOUND TOOLS for digital audio recording/editing, and POLYFRAME for patch %editing. None, I repeat, NONE of these have been ported to the Amiga. And %unless future Amiga machines clean up the severe MIDI timing problems they've %got now, they never will be. In all my reading and experience with the Amiga, I have yet to hear one complaint about "severe MIDI timing problems". Care to back that up with some source material? Also, please re-read what I just wrote, as you seem to have taken it out of context. "Even Atari's best feature, good MIDI software, is weakening as several of those authors port their software to the Amiga." Did I mention any of the above titles? The answer is no, but I can promise you that I always deal in facts. After all, facts are what made me pick the Amiga over the ST and any other computer in it's price range. Here are a few quotes from the January 1991 issue of Amiga User International- "In 1985 Steinberg introduced an Atari sequencer called the Pro24. It was good, well ahead of it's time in some respects, and tt's dit rapidly gained professional acceptance." "The fact that Steinberg have released a Pro24 version on the Amiga is significant in several respects not least in that it indicates that Steinberg are now prepared to take the Commodore Amiga music market seriously. Make no mistake...the Amiga, from a technical viewpoint, can run rings around the ST but because of the lack of music software many musicians had, until fairly recently, been wondering whether professionally useable packages would ever arrive." "The Amiga version of the Pro24 is not a direct port of the original program- it's a complete re-write. The aim was nevertheless to produce an enhanced look-a-like, as opposed to an identical one, and this is something which has clearly been achieved." "With Pro24 Amiga all of this is taken one stage further because the program runs in the standard multi-tasking environment. Whereas machines like the ST are struggling to provide the sort of environment in which several programs can run simultaneously..." It goes on to say many nice things about the program. Anyway, beyond this there are several other Atari software vendors ported their MIDI software to the Amiga. Some of these (even titles you mentioned) are still in the rumor stage. > On the other hand, Amiga sales are higher than ever. %Bzzzt! Commodore just posted its worst figures in 4 years. Oh really? I'd love to hear where you got that information. I can post recent figures from the source that say we've just had one of the best years. Care for them? > If you need any advice on file conversion, > where to buy Amiga-related hardware for the best price, information on the > Atari ST emulators out for the Amiga, or have any other questions related to %I'll save you the time, Tom. Amiga ST emulators blow. They're all slow, %buggy, and none, I say again NONE, work properly with any MIDI software %whatsoever. Makes ME want to rush out and buy one, so I can play 32-million- %coloured games instead of all that WORK I'm getting done now. As typed in from the Feb issue of Amiga World, page 109: BrainSTorm It had to happen and here it is! The MAST ATARI Emulator! Make your Atari friends envious - now your Amiga emulates yet another computer, this time the Atari. BrainSTorm is a software/hardware combination from MAST Germany that runs 98% of Atari software (approx.), including MIDI support. It even emulates the Atari keyboard click! All programs should run except the very small percentage that do direct DMA or program the MFP. It supports: * 8mb Fast RAM, 2mb chip ram * all ST resolutions including color * full page monitor emulation with scrolling * Amiga serial & parallel ports * all Amiga drives (df0-df3) simultaneously * two ST's at same time in one Amiga! * almost ST speed, text is 120% faster, disk 108% * hardware emulates the ST custom chips, has sockets for Atari ROMS, and does addr. translation * Atari PD support on our BBS Price is $99 Call MAST at (702) 359-0444 [END OF FILE] Other ST emulators, some in total software, exist for the Amiga also. > I have received several requests for > information to smooth the conversion from the Atari to the Amiga. I do this as > a service to fellow computer users. %You noble soul! The self-sacrifice! In turn, I offer to help YOU smooth the %conversion of your lips from their present location to my sweaty posterior. %I do this as a service! This kind of talk leads nowhere and isn't productive to the conversation. If you want to talk facts then I suggest you stay on the topic. I won't respond to such remarks as they have nothing to do with the exchange of facts. Please try to do the same. %Tom, I haven't read such a heap of bunk it a long time. If you're frustrated %that your computer isn't being used in any professional environment, fine. %But don't come over here and shovel propaganda and outright false statements %in an effort to get others to join you in your malcontence. Grow up. A "my %computer is better" rant under any other name smells equally bad, no matter %how you may attempt to dress it up. You insult me and then tell me to grow up? I am willing to ignore attacks by insecure users in order to help those who need the kind of information I am providing. So far I have received mail from well over ten Atari users who need help in converting to the Amiga. This makes it worth cutting through your kind of message. If your not interested in leaving your ST for the Amiga then I'm glad to hear it, but don't make things rough for those who want to. Tom
es1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (06/25/91)
In article <1991Jun24.172215.816@colorado.edu> chuj@horton.Colorado.EDU (CHU JEFFREY) writes: > >I wonder how far have you gone in comparing AMIGA machines to others, >AMIGA Fusion Forty Accelerator board is worse than a 486-25 Performance. >AMIGA flickers quite alot, NTSC standard VGA cards are available to IBM >with non-flicker options. > The first point you make isn't a computer war, but a chip war. The 040 is faster than the 486 at the same clock speed, period. A 486/50 is probably marginally faster than the 040 (except under MS-DOS), but it is still close. The 040 25MHz does appr. 18-22 MIPS depending on who you believe (I know how meaningless that is, but we are talking all CISC chips, not RISC, so isn't a terrible statistic). I believe the 486 is about 12. As to flicker, the A3000 comes with a flicker-fixer built in. Commodore sells a board for just over $200 which will deinterlace output on all 2000 machines. Both use standard IBM VGA ports. There is a 3rd party deinterlacer for the 500 as well. -- Ethan FF buckets of bits on the bus, FF buckets of bits. Take one down, Pass it to ground, FE buckets of bits on the bus.
ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill) (06/25/91)
revpk@cellar.UUCP (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano) writes:
% Now, Thomas Hill's endless touting of the Amiga struck me as more
%than a little strange. Not because some of his facts might be wrong, or
%because he was presuming to know things about the ST marketplace that we
%didn't.
Please be specific about what I was wrong about. Like I've said before, I
don't make a statement unless I have the facts and figures to back it up.
% But think about this; Thomas Hill goes out of his way to bust on ST
%users, and wants to convince us to use Amigas. Granted, they're nice
%machines-- my roommate just bought a 3000-- but why is Thomas Hill so
%messianic about them?
I don't "bust on" ST users. I never get into needless remarks and childish
statements. Presenting the facts and offering ST users help is not what I call
"busting" on ST users.
% I can understand, halfway, if Thomas had found Jesus or had submitted
%to the will of Allah, and wanted us to do the same. But why is Thomas so
%wrapped up in what computers we own? Is he an Amiga salesperson? A Commodore
%marketing manager? Why, exactly, is he so emotionally committed to making
%sure that we own HIS kind of machine? Does owning an ST constitute a moral
%affront to him?
I'm not an Amiga salesperson (though I'd love to be), but I am hoping to help
those who buy computers based on no facts.
% Issues of STs and Amigas aside, I think it's pretty clear that Thomas
%has some problems. Not even the do-or-die Commodore 64 fans I know-- mainly
%children with few other interests to hold their allegiances-- get as worked
%up as THomas does. I can think of a dozen better causes for Thomas to worry
%about-- say, supporting the Electronic Freedom Foundation, or better, using
%his fables Amiga to crank out letters on behalf of Amnesty International.
"Worked up"? Pardon me, but where in my message do I get "worked up". I pride
myself on staying away form this kind of thing.
% In short: what sort of deranged, socially-deprived noodnik would give
%a tinker's dam about what computer anyone else uses-- and would actively
%campaign to sell merchandise that he has no immediate financial stake in?
%Heck, I've seen more rational stuff coming out of Jesus freaks.
It always works out this way. When a person can not support his end of the
conversation (this is about computers, not egos) he will resort to attacking
the personality of the person he is dealing with. I don't need to call you
names to support my argumentation. Please try to do the same.
Tomai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill) (06/25/91)
rjast1@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Robert J Anisko) writes:
% I'm just wondering what our dear friend over in Commie-land (Amiga, not
%USSR <grin>) would feel if someone were to step into their message
%base and kindly show them how to convert over from Commodore to the
%Atari. While this is called a "friendly" thing, for one no one on here
%asked for this "help." If someone wants help, do it in PRIVATE.
%It remins me of something done in wartime and even during Desert Storm:
%drop tons of propoganda on the enemy telling them step by step how
%to surrender (many of the Iraqi soldiers who surrendered carried these
%"information slips").
If you can find some good solid reasons for Amiga users to convert to the
Atari, your more than welcome to give it a try. However, I find it hard to
believe that you can find faults with a computer that is clearly a better
machine than the ST.
% While I admit it is a stretch comparing this to the war, the point
%is that the same strategy/technique is being employed.
Didn't we win that war? Sorry, couldn't resist! :)
% or in short: I didn't ask, I don't remember seeing ANY postings here
%about it, and thus we really ain't interested in your "help."
%So I kindly ask our noble friend to save his blessings for those
%who want and need it - in the Commodore section...
I didn't say you did. I have, however, received many messages just on our
local Free-Net from Atari users needing information. Where there is smoke
there is fire, so I thought I'd offer my help to anybody on UseNet. Turns
out that I was right, as many responses have been had. I also got about 20
negative responses, but those don't bother me much.
Tomai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill) (06/25/91)
steve@thelake.mn.org (Steve Yelvington) writes:
%You and the ill-mannered Amiga fanatic from Cleveland Freenet are
%engaging in a public pissing match, posting lists of messages from
%Freenet's Commodore forums and recycling ignorant, inflammatory,
%ill-intended messages.
It sure does look like your doing the same thing, but I take exception to
your remark that I am "ill-mannered". I don't post inflammatory messages
directed at users. If the facts upset you then I'm sorry, but please don't
rebel in a "ill-intended" manner. :) I have yet to attack a user on this
subject and I hope I never do.
Tompeter@Sugar.NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) (06/25/91)
In article <1991Jun24.172215.816@colorado.edu> chuj@horton.Colorado.EDU (CHU JEFFREY) writes: > What do you define as a REAL COMPUTER? One I don't have to throw out the shipped operating system to use effectively. > I wonder how far have you gone in comparing AMIGA machines to others, > AMIGA Fusion Forty Accelerator board is worse than a 486-25 Performance. I get better response on my 1000, let alone my 3000, than Microsoft Windows or X Windows provide on that 486/25... -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>. 'U` "Have you hugged your wolf today?"
ytsuji@wucc.waseda.ac.jp (Y.Tsuji) (06/25/91)
This has been really horrible. Will you please use 'Amiga' word in the subject or in the summary so that we can ignore you easily? We own Atari and are thinking very hard how to get the best from it. Not one of us will ever infiltrate into MSDOS or Mac user groups and say my machine is better than yours and mine can run your software better etc. It would help no one ; it just vexes people. Tsuji
peter@Sugar.NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) (06/25/91)
In article <30289@know.pws.bull.com> ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill) writes: > In all my reading and experience with the Amiga, I have yet to hear one > complaint about "severe MIDI timing problems". There were a bunch of them back when Deluxe Music Construction Set and SoundScape first came out. It seems they did a poor job of handling timing and some folks interpreted that as being an Amiga problem. Like when the first TOS ROM upgrade came out and broke a bunch of poorly written terminal emulators. Or when the first >1M Macs came out and Microsoft's software started breaking. Or the TSR WARS on the IBM-PC. Computers are always getting bad reps from application software. -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>. 'U` "Have you hugged your wolf today?"
mathew@mwowm.mantis.co.uk (Million Headed Monster) (06/25/91)
What's an Amiga? mathew -- << baby mother hospital scissors creature judgement butcher engineer >>
J.D.Coleman@newcastle.ac.uk (Julian Coleman) (06/25/91)
-- -- Julian Coleman < J.D.Coleman@newcastle.ac.uk > -- Department of Surveying, University of Newcastle upon Tyne -- Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU, England. < +44 91 222 6739 > -- #include <std_disclaimer.h>
robart@agora.rain.com (Robert Barton) (06/25/91)
In article <5910@wucc.waseda.ac.jp> ytsuji@wucc.waseda.ac.jp (Y.Tsuji) writes: >This has been really horrible. Will you please use 'Amiga' word in the >subject or in the summary so that we can ignore you easily? "Amiga" is in the subject line. What are you talking about?
malay@sae.com (Bob Malay) (06/25/91)
|> |> And *you* don't have to wait 6 years to find it, like I did. |> -- |> Peter da Silva. `-_-' <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>. |> 'U` "Have you hugged your wolf today?" You could go out and buy a Sun 3/50 - the used ones are running around $600-$700 range! Bob Malay
chuj@horton.Colorado.EDU (CHU JEFFREY) (06/26/91)
In article <1991Jun24.222634.30979@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: > The first point you make isn't a computer war, but a chip >war. The 040 is faster than the 486 at the same clock speed, I am trying to avoid any kind of war, this comp.sys.atari.st news is not for these types of postings. SOOOO after this posting please send all responses to the posting to me and not post it here. >(except under MS-DOS), but it is still close. The 040 25MHz does >appr. 18-22 MIPS depending on who you believe (I know how >meaningless that is, but we are talking all CISC chips, not RISC, >so isn't a terrible statistic). I believe the 486 is about 12. MFLOPS is a better measure than MIPS, the 68040 25 does about 3.5 MFLOPS, the i486-25 with Weitek 4167 does 10+ MFLOPS and the ranges of MIPS for the 486-25 is from 11 to 15 MIPS. > As to flicker, the A3000 comes with a flicker-fixer built >in. Commodore sells a board for just over $200 which will >deinterlace output on all 2000 machines. Both use standard IBM >VGA ports. There is a 3rd party deinterlacer for the 500 as well. I know the A3000 is a non flicker machine, but machines upto it isn't without the flicker fixer. I use to be an AMIGA crazy person so I know the kind of things that AMIGA can do, but it is not that great it pushed me back to using the ST. REMEMBER PLEASE RESPOND THIS POSTING BY MAIL. TO THE PEOPLE ON THIS NEWS, SORRY. chuj@horton.colorado.edu Jeff
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (06/26/91)
In article <1991Jun25.173313.27320@colorado.edu> chuj@horton.Colorado.EDU (CHU JEFFREY) writes: >In article <1991Jun24.222634.30979@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >> The first point you make isn't a computer war, but a chip >>war. The 040 is faster than the 486 at the same clock speed, > >I am trying to avoid any kind of war, this comp.sys.atari.st news is >not for these types of postings. SOOOO after this posting please >send all responses to the posting to me and not post it here. > I think that a discussion of chip technology is wholly relevant to this newsgroup, as long as Motorola 680x0 chips are a main part of the discussion. I shouldn't use the term war, I consider this to be a "discussion". >>(except under MS-DOS), but it is still close. The 040 25MHz does >>appr. 18-22 MIPS depending on who you believe (I know how >>meaningless that is, but we are talking all CISC chips, not RISC, >>so isn't a terrible statistic). I believe the 486 is about 12. > >MFLOPS is a better measure than MIPS, the 68040 25 does about 3.5 MFLOPS, >the i486-25 with Weitek 4167 does 10+ MFLOPS and the ranges of MIPS for >the 486-25 is from 11 to 15 MIPS. > I don't have MFLOPS statistics myself, so I'll take your for truth. You mention a Weitek math coprocessor, which is not made by Intel. That is something separate which is an additional cost beyond the 486. Also, MFLOPS stands for "millions of floating point operations per second". That is very important for some programs (such as ray-tracers), but less relevant for other programs, such as DTP. That's why benchmarks stink. For a DTP application, MIPS is more important, although I'd prefer to hear some Dhrystones and SpecMarks numbers as well. -- Ethan FF buckets of bits on the bus, FF buckets of bits. Take one down, Pass it to ground, FE buckets of bits on the bus.
rcte2p@menudo.uh.edu (Paul Stephen Sears) (06/26/91)
peter@Sugar.NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) presents in article <1991Jun24.110408.29984@Sugar.NeoSoft.com> >In article <SCOTT.91Jun23172143@breeze.cs.odu.edu> scott@cs.odu.edu (Scott D. Yelich) writes: [misc stuff deleted] > >Amiga. I pushed the machine before I ever got one. I put off buying a >personal computer for 6 years waiting for something like the Amiga to >come out. There is still, 6 years later, *NO* other personal computer >with an operating system that satisfies my *minimum* functionality >requirements, unless you go out and buy a UNIX box. Isn't that great? A unix box that costs less that an Amiga 3000 and it even has ethernet built in.... Maybe you should have waited longer than 6 years to make your decision... > >And at that it's one of the cheapest machines out there. > >> MY atari does what I need it to do. > >You're satisfied, but have you used a real computer? Yep... Every day... I use computers that have more raw processing power than 100 Amigas running in parallel processing... > >I've been there. I borrowed an IBM clone for a while, then an Atari ST. It's >called shopping around. The productivity improvement from reliable, efficient, >and responsive multitasking is amazing. Sounds like you didn't look around too much. You can get a used Sun 3 with 4 Meg ram for under $1000... > >There really is a basic, fundamental difference between the Amiga and the rest. >Your arguments make good sense when comparing Ataris and Mac and IBMs, but >there *is* something better. Of course there is. Buy a NeXT. I can get a NeXT with a 100M HD, 2.88M floopy, a MUCH better user interface, built in sound digitizer, *nix OS (MACH) plus many other ammenities for less than a Amiga 3000.... So please, don't cop the attitude that Amiga is the best buy for the money. Wake up... Steve Jobbs strikes again... (and I could add 32bit color for $1500 more) And, the NeXT has a 68040, display postscipt and a 400dpi laser printer... (I have an Atari 520 and I would still buy one today... of course, I would get my NeXT too...) > >And *you* don't have to wait 6 years to find it, like I did. >-- >Peter da Silva. `-_-' <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>. > 'U` "Have you hugged your wolf today?" P.S: Here at UH, the monochrome NeXT is $3K with student discount... * Paul Sears * Technology *** |"The greater an individual's power * The University of Houston *** | over others, the greater the evil that * RCTE2P@Jetson.uh.edu * * * | might possibly originate with him." * RCTE2P@menudo.uh.edu * * * | - PROPAGANDA, from A Secret Wish (CD) -- * Paul Sears * Technology *** |"The greater an individual's power * The University of Houston *** | over others, the greater the evil that * RCTE2P@Jetson.uh.edu * * * | might possibly originate with him." * RCTE2P@menudo.uh.edu * * * | - PROPAGANDA, from A Secret Wish (CD)
ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill) (06/26/91)
I can't really debate the reasoning behind now moving this discussion to the comp.sys.amiga.advocacy SIG. The original message has grown into something that wasn't really it's original intent. I have been able to help close to twenty Atari users so far, so the message has served it's purpose. I read and listened to those Email replies whichdiscussed this in a civil manner (Most of the hostile messages were deleted before I finished reading them). For this reason I'll ask everybody who expects a reply to leave your message in the comp.sys.amiga.advocacy SIG. One final note: Please re-read the original message with an open mind and see what I mean about "growing into something". Tom
peter@Sugar.NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) (06/27/91)
In article <1991Jun24.234414.1@simvax.labmed.umn.edu> davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu writes: > Redirected to comp.sys.amiga.advocacy, where this who thread belongs. [followed by the entire message] Get a clue and learn how to use news. (followups directed to the appropriate group) -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>. 'U` "Have you hugged your wolf today?"
chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Erik Funkenbusch) (06/28/91)
darling@cellar.UUCP (Darling) writes: >Ever met a professional producer, Tom? We use the best programs available on >any computer: C-Lab's CREATOR/NOTATOR for sequencing, Digidesign's ATARI >SOUND TOOLS for digital audio recording/editing, and POLYFRAME for patch >editing. None, I repeat, NONE of these have been ported to the Amiga. And >unless future Amiga machines clean up the severe MIDI timing problems they've >got now, they never will be. > >> On the other hand, Amiga sales are higher than ever. > >Bzzzt! Commodore just posted its worst figures in 4 years. Well, Actually CBM just got done selling over 1 million Amiga's in 9 months. Their Sales are Higher than they've been since the 64 heyday. I suppose you don't do 16 bit work eh? Are there 16 bit audio samplers with SMPTE support fot the ST? .--------------------------------------------------------------------------. | UUCP: {amdahl!tcnet, crash}!orbit!pnet51!chucks | "I know he's come back | | ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!chucks@nosc.mil | from the dead, but do | | INET: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org | you really think he's | |-------------------------------------------------| moved back in?" | | Amiga programmer at large, employment options | Lou Diamond Philips in | | welcome, inquire within. | "The First Power". | `--------------------------------------------------------------------------'
chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Erik Funkenbusch) (06/30/91)
rcte2p@menudo.uh.edu (Paul Stephen Sears) writes: >P.S: Here at UH, the monochrome NeXT is $3K with student discount... > And a 25Mhz 3000 with a COLOR display costs about 2200 educational. ..--------------------------------------------------------------------------. | UUCP: {amdahl!tcnet, crash}!orbit!pnet51!chucks | "I know he's come back | | ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!chucks@nosc.mil | from the dead, but do | | INET: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org | you really think he's | |-------------------------------------------------| moved back in?" | | Amiga programmer at large, employment options | Lou Diamond Philips in | | welcome, inquire within. | "The First Power". | `--------------------------------------------------------------------------'