mark@ece-csc.UUCP (Mark Lanzo) (11/29/86)
Engineering.
I have been using Dave Wecker's VT100 program (v2.3, 861101), and have
found that the function keys (including arrows) do not seem to work reliably.
If I hit the cursor keys SLOWLY (ie, maybe wait a second between successive
keystrokes), things usually work ok. However, if I hit the keys a little
bit more rapidly, or just hold one down, VT100 invariably gets sick
and splatters lots of garbage out. Usually this garbage consists of a
a single character repeated over and over -- usually I'll get the letter
"U" printed many times. Usually after it spits out enough characters
it stops and things work again (as long as I don't use the arrow keys).
Sometimes it just spits out the character seemingly forever; other times
the system freezes and I have to exit the program (that hasn't happened
many times though and I can't remember if VT100 still exited neatly via
the close gadget or whether it required a reboot to kill the process).
This same behavior is shown by the other function keys.
The compiler doesn't seem to be at fault this time -- both Lattice 3.03B and
Manx versions of the program do the same thing.
Does anybody know what the problem might be?
Also: some people have complained about the visible beep option not working.
That DOES work just fine in my version (I edited vt100.h to set
default beep volume to zero).
Oh yes -- I *did* edit vt100.h to make sure the #define LATTICE and
#define MANX were set appropriately for the compiler being used.
Other than for this one problem, the program seems to work really well;
overall I am extremely pleased with it. I just wish I could use my
functions keys with my editor!
-- Mark Lanzo --vanam@pttesac.UUCP (Marnix van Ammers) (12/01/86)
In article <3131@ece-csc.UUCP> mark@ece-csc.UUCP (Mark Lanzo) writes: >Engineering. >I have been using Dave Wecker's VT100 program (v2.3, 861101), and have >found that the function keys (including arrows) do not seem to work reliably. I just checked and my VT100 V2.3 does not have this problem. I just used vi to look through a file and I could type any of the arrow keys (didn't test the function keys) as fast as I wanted. I could also hold them down so they'd repeat. All worked just fine. I compiled with manx. I have hit a different problem/bug twice though. Once using version 2.2 and once now with version 2.3 . And that is that all of a sudden I find that my period (.) key is acting like a break key. Typing the right Amiga key doesn't clear the problem. When this happened I could not find a way to clear the problem short of rebooting the whole system. Marnix -- Marnix A. van\ Ammers Work: (415) 545-8334 Home: (707) 644-9781 CEO: MAVANAMMERS:UNIX {ihnp4|ptsfa}!pttesac!vanam CIS: 70027,70
wen@husc2.UUCP (wen) (12/01/86)
In article <341@pttesac.UUCP> vanam@pttesac.UUCP (Marnix van Ammers) writes: > >I have hit a different problem/bug twice though. Once using version 2.2 >and once now with version 2.3 . And that is that all of a sudden I find >that my period (.) key is acting like a break key. Me, too. Aliasing "." to "." in my vt100.init seems to have cleared the problem up. A. Wen wen@harvunxu.BITNET wen%husc4@harvard.HARVARD.EDU
srinivas@ut-sally.UUCP (Srinivasan Sankaran) (12/01/86)
In article <341@pttesac.UUCP> vanam@pttesac.UUCP (Marnix van Ammers) writes: >In article <3131@ece-csc.UUCP> mark@ece-csc.UUCP (Mark Lanzo) writes: >>Engineering. >>I have been using Dave Wecker's VT100 program (v2.3, 861101), and have >>found that the function keys (including arrows) do not seem to work reliably. > >I just checked and my VT100 V2.3 does not have this problem. I just >used vi to look through a file and I could type any of the arrow >keys (didn't test the function keys) as fast as I wanted. I could also >hold them down so they'd repeat. All worked just fine. > >I compiled with manx. > >Marnix --------------------- I compiled with Lattice (version ?.??). If I keep pressing any of the arrow keys in vi, a lot of lines with just one character (usually "C") get inserted in the in the file. -srinivas srinivas@sally.utexas.edu
rick@mips.UUCP (Rick Frazier) (12/02/86)
> --------------------- > I compiled with Lattice (version ?.??). If I keep pressing any of the arrow > keys in vi, a lot of lines with just one character (usually "C") get inserted > in the in the file. > I'm sure that many of the "netlanders" out there have seen this particular "symptom" before , especially those working on *nix systems. It seems to be a result of the control codes that the vt100 sends for the arrow keys, with interaction due to character buffering: In vi, an escape [ESC] (alone) signals the program to exit the current mode. However, the arrow keys for a vt100 terminals send [ESC] O A for the up, [ESC] O B for the down, [ESC] O C for the right, and [ESC] O D for the left arrows. Since O is the vt100 command for "open line above", the result, if you are trying to scroll up, is a string of lines with a capital A in column 1. (the editor sees the following: [ESC] (quit doing last command) O (open line above) A (this is the character it puts on the line) for each time the up arrow is pressed. Two things seem to be involved: 1) the rate at which you press the key (or repeat rate of the terminal) 2) the system load. When a system is lightly loaded, there is time to take each character individually and operation is what we consider normal. As the system load increases, the characters get stacked in a buffer, and there is no data to indicate relative timing of the input of the characters, and the editor seems to take these characters (from the buffer) as individual keystrokes, not as a composite keycode (what was actually sent when you pressed the arrow key) A third event can cause the same result is pressing any of the arrow keys while you are in any of the insert modes (I just did in rn, and it reminded me in the usual fashion, a string of single-character lines). This particular problem is an operator error, and cannot be considered a fault of any vt100 emulator/terminal/system. Whether the (long) response above is directly applicable to the program running on the amiga or not, I think it is important that those out there without the "benefit" of having lived on *nix systems for years be aware that we have lived with this problem all along, so the problem may not be a fault in the program at all........ It's a FEATURE of vi :-) and has been for as long as I have been working on *nix systems. -- --Rick Frazier-- DISCLAIMER: The above is individual opinion (the result of my imperfect recall of facts, real or imagined) in no way representing anyone else. UUCP: {decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!decwrl!mips!rick DDD: 408-720-1700 x278
chapman@eris.BERKELEY.EDU (Brent Chapman) (12/02/86)
In article <1047@husc2.UUCP> wen@husc2.UUCP (wen) writes: >In article <341@pttesac.UUCP> vanam@pttesac.UUCP (Marnix van Ammers) writes: >> >>I have hit a different problem/bug twice though. Once using version 2.2 >>and once now with version 2.3 . And that is that all of a sudden I find >>that my period (.) key is acting like a break key. > >Me, too. Aliasing "." to "." in my vt100.init seems to have cleared the >problem up. I've hit this several times. I haven't yet taken the time to track it down (final exams are coming up soon...), but it seems that it only happens when I invoke a new CLI using POPCLI, and then do an 'endcli' before returning to vt100. (Side note: most of the time when I invoke POPCLI from within vt100, it's to format a disk, so the FORMAT program might be part of the problem as well.) To reset things after the '.' key wedges, I usually just have to exit and then restart vt100. So, lessee, we've got a bad interaction somewhere, between at least four, and possibly five programs: VT100, POPCLI, NEWCLI, ENDCLI, and possibly FORMAT. Anyone want to take the time to track it down? I'll do it when I get around to it, but that may not be soon. Brent -- Brent Chapman chapman@eris.berkeley.edu or ucbvax!eris!chapman
wtm@neoucom.UUCP (Bill Mayhew) (12/03/86)
In article <6478@ut-sally.UUCP>, srinivas@ut-sally.UUCP (Srinivasan Sankaran) writes: > ... > I compiled with Lattice (version ?.??). If I keep pressing any of the arrow > keys in vi, a lot of lines with just one character (usually "C") get inserted > in the in the file. > > -srinivas I sounds like you are getting bitten by the timeout in vi that differntiates terminal generated escape sequences from the the user pressing the escape key, then after n milliseconds typing some command. On the VT100, the right arrow generates ^[ [ C, and in the keypad mode generates ^[ O c, which means that if things are going slow, and vi has you in keypad mode (which it does for the "normal" vt100 termcap or terminfo) that you are going to exit from insert mode, and then suddenly find yourself with a capital C on the line above the one you were working on. Here, we run over ethernet servers to the Vax and occasionally, an arrow escape sequence gets broken up between two ethernet packets and results in an unwanted insetion of A,B,C, or D depending on the arrow pushed. That's how I first encountered this on a real vt100. I'm not a vi expert; perhaps, you could change the durration of the timeout, or else operate at a lower baud rate, as the timeouts are calculated proportional to the baud rate. You also might try recompiling under Aztec rather than Lattice, as the stdio functions are faster in Lattice, so I'm told. I have a version of DBW's vt100 version 2.3 that was compiled under Lattice that our vax seems to believe is a real vt100 without problems. BTW: thanks DBW. vt100 is really nice, especially the kermit. Bill Mayhew Division of Basic Medical Sciences Northeastern Ohio Universities' College of Medicine Rootstown, OH 44272 USA phone: 216-325-2511 (...!cbatt!neoucom!wtm wtm@neoucom.UUCP)
wtm@neoucom.UUCP (Bill Mayhew) (12/03/86)
Hold it! Before you mail me that nastly letter, what I meant to say in that last article was "Maybe you should try to recompile using Aztec C rather than Lattice, as the stdio functions are faster than in Lattice, so I've been told" What I said was accidentally turned around! Chalk it up to not having enough cups of coffee yet this morning! Sorry if I raised anybody's blood pressure! --Bill
chas@gtss.UUCP (Charles Cleveland) (12/04/86)
In article <6478@ut-sally.UUCP> srinivas@ut-sally.UUCP (Srinivasan Sankaran) writes: >I compiled with Lattice (version ?.??). If I keep pressing any of the arrow >keys in vi, a lot of lines with just one character (usually "C") get inserted >in the in the file. I think your bug (that's the right arrow key you usually hit, right?) is due to the lack of a normal/application mode for the cursor keys which is independent of the normal/application mode for the keypad. Wecker sets application cursor keys whenever application keypad keys are set. As I mentioned in another posting, which only went out today due to hardware problems, I fixed this and will post diffs if enough interest is displayed in it. -- Charles Cleveland chas@ss.physics.gatech.edu Georgia Tech School of Physics Atlanta, GA 30332 Georgia Tech Surface Studies ...!{akgua,allegra,amd,hplabs,ihnp4,masscomp,ut-ngp,rlgvax,sb1, uf-cgrl,unmvax,ut-sally}!gatech!gtss!chas
sean@ukma.ms.uky.csnet (Sean Casey) (12/05/86)
In article <782@mips.UUCP> rick@mips.UUCP (Rick Frazier) writes: >> I compiled with Lattice (version ?.??). If I keep pressing any of the arrow >> keys in vi, a lot of lines with just one character (usually "C") get inserted >> in the in the file. > >I'm sure that many of the "netlanders" out there have seen this particular >"symptom" before , especially those working on *nix systems. It seems to be >a result of the control codes that the vt100 sends for the arrow keys, >with interaction due to character buffering: The explanation is a good one. I have experienced the same problem on both VT100s and VT102s (real ones from DEC). Considering that <ESC> can be both a mode switch for vi AND an arrow key sequence, vi does quite well in differentiating the two. The solution: Don't use arrow keys in vi! Use 'h','j','k', and 'l'. This way you (1) don't have the problem with holding down the keys, (2) have your fingers much closer to the home keys, (3) can move much quicker because your fingers don't have to leave the keys, and (4) will be ready to play games that use the hjkl keys :-). If you need to move rapidly right and left, use 'w', and 'b' to move forward and back words, and use '0', and '$' to move to the beginning and end of a line. To move up and down quickly, use ^F, ^B, ^D, and ^U. Almost any vi command can be prefixed with a repeat count. Happy editing! Sean -- =========================================================================== Sean Casey UUCP: cbosgd!ukma!sean CSNET: sean@ms.uky.csnet ARPA: ukma!sean@anl-mcs.arpa BITNET: sean@UKMA.BITNET
gary@well.UUCP (Gary J. Albert) (12/06/86)
ips.UUCP> Sender: Reply-To: gary@well.UUCP (Gary J. Albert) Followup-To: Distribution: Organization: Whole Earth Lectronic Link, Sausalito CA Keywords: I used to have the problem in 'vi' if having the escape at the start of the arrow key's sequence being mistaken to mean exit insert mode. Then I read the manual again and found that the 'h', 'j', 'k', and 'l' keys do the same thing without sending any excapes, thereby preventing the problem. This has the added advantage of letting you keep your hands on the home row for those typists out there. Gary ALbert
stever@videovax.Tek.COM (Steven E. Rice, P.E.) (12/07/86)
In article <158@gtss.UUCP>, Charles Cleveland (chas@gtss.UUCP) writes: [ quotes description of arrow key bug ] > I think your bug (that's the right arrow key you usually hit, right?) is > due to the lack of a normal/application mode for the cursor keys which > is independent of the normal/application mode for the keypad. Wecker > sets application cursor keys whenever application keypad keys are set. > As I mentioned in another posting, which only went out today due to > hardware problems, I fixed this and will post diffs if enough interest > is displayed in it. Mail the diffs! Post the diffs! But please, send 'em!! Steve Rice ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- {decvax | hplabs | ihnp4 | uw-beaver}!tektronix!videovax!stever
robinson@shadow.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson) (12/08/86)
[Intel]
I have found a quick fix to the "." wedge problem in VT100. If you move
the mouse cursor around randomly for a while by using the keybaord commands
to do this ([shift]-Amiga-{up|down|left|right}-arrow), the "." key becomes
unstuck. I guess the status of the Amiga key gets stuck in VT100 someplace,
and all this geferken around gets it unstuck. Still not pretty, but beats
a re-boot.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you study the logistics and heuristics of the mystics,
You will find that their minds rarely move in a line"
Abu Nidal is conspiring to assasinate Reagan and smuggle bombs into the NSA.
Mike Robinson USENET: ucbvax!ernie!robinson
ARPA: robinson@ernie.berkeley.edurar@auc.UUCP (Rodney Ricks) (12/08/86)
In article <2164@well.UUCP> gary@well.UUCP (Gary J. Albert) writes: >I used to have the problem in 'vi' if having the escape at the start of the >arrow key's sequence being mistaken to mean exit insert mode. [Rest of message deleted] > > Gary ALbert Yes, we have also had that problem, but I don't think that it is caused by faulty vt100 emulation. The terminals that we have this problem on are true Digital VT100's. We had the same problem on the Esprit Executive 10/102's, which emulate a VT102. The problem was caused by an inadequate delay when sending the sequence. The delay on the VT100 terminfo files for the 3B5's and 3B2's that we use was originally set to 2 milliseconds. I wrote a very simple program that changed the settings in the compiled database to give a longer delay (I believed I used about 20 milliseconds), and the problem disappeared. The best way would probably be to get the source for the VT100 terminfo (not termcap), then modify that. If you can get that, please mail a copy of it to me. I couldn't figure out how to modify the escape sequences in the compiled code for scrolling, and we're still having problems with that. By the way, our VT100's also left behind part of the escape sequence on the screen, and, if you were in command mode, it took you into insert mode. Hope this helps. Rodney [ Insert an appropriate disclaimer here ] Rodney Ricks, Atlanta University Center Computation Center
mwm@eris.BERKELEY.EDU (Mike (Don't have strength to leave) Meyer) (12/09/86)
In article <5261@ukma.ms.uky.csnet> sean@ukma.UUCP (Sean Casey) writes: >Don't use arrow keys in vi! Use 'h','j','k', and 'l'. This way you (1) don't Better yet, use Emacs! :-) [Really, I *DON'T* want to start a round of editor wars, but I couldn't resist!] I've got mouse support code in vt100 (real easy to do), so I can point with my mouse and just click. Or C-click to delete a char, or ALT-click to delete a word, or .... As soon as I de-X-ify the GNU elisp, I'm going to turn it all loose. Sometime next week, I hope. The GNU stuff should look like the mouse support in the hot-mouse version of mg1a. <mike