min@jplpro.UUCP (kun chung) (12/04/86)
I was very disappoionted with the flickering of the 640x400 interlaced hires
mode. Is there any easy/inexpensive solution for this ? I understand that
this is so because the video output is inherently interlaced. However, is it
possible to remove/lessen the flickering using a good/special color monitor ?
Thanks for your responses.
--
Min-Kun Chung
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Uucp: {sdcrdcf,bellcore,ihnp4}!psivax!jplpro!min
Uucp: jplgodo!chas2!jplpro!min
Arpa: ...jplpro!min@cit-vax.ARPAdillon@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) (12/06/86)
>I was very disappoionted with the flickering of the 640x400 interlaced hires >mode. Is there any easy/inexpensive solution for this ? I understand that >this is so because the video output is inherently interlaced. However, is it >possible to remove/lessen the flickering using a good/special color monitor ? > >Thanks for your responses. The video output is not inherently interlace. There was a huge discussion of this on the net a while back the general points being: -On a normal monitor, the lower the brightness, the less the flicker -I have found a dark (almost black) green background with a white-blue forground best. But even so, I went back to using a non-interlace workbench to save my eyes from long term strain. If you want to get rid of the flicker entirely, you have to by a long-persistance phosphor monitor, which can get expensive. -Matt
ee162faq@sdcc7.ucsd.EDU (Here/There at once) (12/08/86)
Two simple solutions: 1. Wear circularly polarized sunglasses. 2. Buy a " " filter for your monitor. John 7OHN
dickow@ui3.UUCP (12/08/86)
It looks like a high-persistence color monitor is required to really get rid of all the HAM mode flicker. Very expensive proposition -- circa 700-1000 bucks. However, very selective color usage can minimize the effect, and I have read that some commercial programs are using this in their programs. The flicker varies. I saw a monitor on an Amiga system that just jiggled a little at the top of the screen...not tooo bad!
carolyn@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP (Carolyn Scheppner) (12/10/86)
In article <383@jplpro.UUCP> min@jplpro.UUCP (min-kun chung) writes: >I was very disappoionted with the flickering of the 640x400 interlaced hires >mode. Is there any easy/inexpensive solution for this ? I understand that >this is so because the video output is inherently interlaced. However, is it >possible to remove/lessen the flickering using a good/special color monitor ? Some ways to reduce flicker: 1. Reduce light/dark contrast between displayed colors by adjusting colors and/or monitor. Try colors with similar luminance but different hues. 2. Use a font designed for interlace. There are some floating around. (on this net I believe) 3. If you are writing interlace software, avoid thin horizontal contrasting lines. 4. Sony analog RGB monitors like the KV1311CR seem to have slightly longer persistence than ours. If you can find one, they're nice. Analog, digital, composite AND it's a TV. $500 5. If you want to spend MORE bucks, get a REAL high persistence monitor, try Electrohome ECM1301 HR Color, or Mitsubishi C-3479LPAG-WC. 6. Wear sunglasses. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Carolyn Scheppner -- CBM >>Amiga Technical Support<< UUCP ...{allegra,caip,ihnp4,seismo}!cbmvax!carolyn PHONE 215-431-9180 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
fnf@mcdsun.UUCP (Fred Fish) (12/12/86)
In article <1083@cbmvax.cbmvax.cbm.UUCP> carolyn@cbmvax.UUCP (Carolyn Scheppner) writes: >5. If you want to spend MORE bucks, get a REAL high persistence > monitor, try Electrohome ECM1301 HR Color, or Mitsubishi > C-3479LPAG-WC. > I am seriously considering getting one of these. I would appreciate mail from any users that have either of these monitors, with a quick summary of your experience and where you ordered yours from. Thanks. (I will summarize responses if I get enough) -Fred -- =========================================================================== Fred Fish Motorola Computer Division, 3013 S 52nd St, Tempe, Az 85282 USA {seismo!noao!mcdsun,hplabs!well}!fnf (602) 438-5976 ===========================================================================
czhj@vax1.ccs.cornell.edu (Ted <^_^>) (12/15/86)
Ahh...more flicker comments. People, as has been said before, this isn't the Amiga's fault (no, this isn't an attack on previous poster's comments) it is simply the way things work with an NTSC interlaced screen. You can easilly see 30hz flicker if the contrast is set up high, the way people like to set it. Try setting up the screen preferences so that the screen looks like a Mac -- that is, inverse video. Medium gray background, dark foreground colors. Then, when you draw thin lines and other stuff that would normally flicker, there ain't nothing to flicker, as it's always dark! If you insist on drawing many horizontal lines separated by only one line, then the background will flicker (single pixel bright lines always will), however keeping the contrast low will reduce the problem to a minimum. You might also try turning off that annoying overhead fluorescent light, as the two flickering togethering can drive you insane (literaly, some studies showed that flickering lights is enough to cause mental disorders -- no, I have no references, sorry). Anyway, unless somebody comes out with a scan doubler, which is a box that keeps the flicker away by filling in the lines, you just have to play with your preferences and/or change lighting. And another thing, try proper adjustments on your monitor. It's frightening how few people really know how to adjust their screens. it takes a steady hand on the V-hold, but if you set it just right, you can get rid of almost any indication of raster lines, which won't do much for flicker, but will allow you to take superb photos from the monitor (use long exposures and a tripod as well for best results. Also, watch out for reflections...). Well, that's about it for now. Have phun and keep the contrast LOW. ---Ted Inoue
steve@wlbreng1.UUCP (Steve Childress) (12/16/86)
-------
Re: Interlaced flicker in 640 mode:
I run emacs and cli in the 48 line mode, routinely, with no complaints.
I could never understand all the gripes about flicker, as my system is
acceptable with preferences-set white at 80% on a blue background.
One day, however, a fellow visited and remarked "WOW! How do you get so
little flicker?" The answer seemed to be that I use a 1070 monitor
whereas he used a 1080.
None the less, I really prefer the 48-line EMACS to vi on a Wyse-75 at work!
Regards,
Steve Childress
(818) 706-5247 (days)
{trwrb, scgvaxd, ihnp4, voder, jplgodo} !wlbr!wlbreng1!stevehull@hao.UUCP (Howard Hull) (12/17/86)
In article <152@wlbreng1.UUCP>, steve@wlbreng1.UUCP (Steve Childress) writes: > ------- > Re: Interlaced flicker in 640 mode: > > I run emacs and cli in the 48 line mode, routinely, with no complaints. > I could never understand all the gripes about flicker, as my system is > acceptable with preferences-set white at 80% on a blue background. > One day while I was comfortably using Aegis Draw in a brightly lit room (after having invoked setlace) a guy walked in and said "My GOD how can you stand looking at that display!" I said "Huh?" He said "It is kajumpin all over the bejezzes place - don't you see it?" I said "No." We got into discussion about this, and dragged in a bunch of others. It drove half of them nuts. Since we are photodetector phreaks around here, the discussion eventually expanded to the matter of why - and we tripped across the matter of night vision. A substantial fraction of the guys who couldn't stand the Amiga admitted problems with night vision (i.e. finding it necessary to slow down at night to feel comfortable, even with roads they knew fairly well). A substantial fraction of the guys that weren't bothered by the interlace flicker admitted having a poor batting average in softball (day or night). So I am beginning to think that there are two kinds of people - those with long-time-constant integration (who see well at night) and those with short-time-constant integration (who can accurately track rapidly moving objects with minimal position-phase error). It is important, therefore, that none of you ever show your Amiga to any corporate execs who are good at softball... keep the demos to the ones that hang out in dark, cool bistros... Howard Hull [If yet unproven concepts are outlawed in the range of discussion... ...Then only the deranged will discuss yet unproven concepts] {ucbvax!hplabs | decvax!noao | mcvax!seismo | ihnp4!seismo} !hao!hull
cmcmanis@sun.uucp (Chuck McManis) (12/18/86)
Howard Hull wrote : > ... A substantial fraction of the guys who > couldn't stand the Amiga admitted problems with night vision ... This is at least correlated by the fact that a) I have trouble with seeing things at night an the screen flicker bothers me, and b) my wife can see perfectly well in low light conditions and the flicker doesn't bother her. As a side note I have also noticed my eyeballs scan faster than hers do, (you no that tiny barely perceptable side to side motion your eyes make to scan the scene) all very interesting. Sounds like the stuff of a Scientific American article. -- --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.