lachac@topaz.UUCP (02/25/87)
I've just read the A2000 preview in the March issue of Byte. In a word, awesome!! Here are a few interesting tidbits: + Keyboard bug has been fixed. You know, that nasty one where you hit 3 letters and a different one comes out... - According to the article (written in Dec) the A1000 will be discontinued after the A2000 goes into full production... - Somebody in a non-A2000 article said that the beta of PROWRITE (that text and graphics WP) is locked into using interlace!! Why would someone do that????? And the biggest plus of all: + The artcle states that after work is complete on the AT card, the CBM engineers are turning there efforts to a 68020 card to fit into the CPU slot. I know, big deal, another 68020 card! Well, this one is reputed to have a custom MMU on it, in order for the Amiga 2000 to run : UNIX 5.2 (System V version 2) I told you the article was awesome!!! (This is no dream, I read this!!!!) -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Isn't fun the best thing to have?" lachac@topaz.rutgers.edu
frazier@cti.UUCP (02/27/87)
In article <9599@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU>, lachac@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (Gerard Lachac) writes: > > I've just read the A2000 preview in the March issue of Byte. In a word, > awesome!! Here are a few interesting tidbits: > > - According to the article (written in Dec) the A1000 will be > discontinued after the A2000 goes into full production... Judging by the way Commodore has run things so far, this tidbit should come as NO surprise to anyone out there. > (This is no dream, I read this!!!!) Oh, you poor, misguided soul! 8-) The article you read may not have been YOUR dream, but it's unclear how much of it was the result of the Author's dreamworld or "visions". After all of these years, and all of the misinformation presented by the various forms of media in the world, you still believe everything that you read in a magazine????? Though it's likely there was a fair amount of truth in the article, I PERSONALLY take ANYTHING I read in the mags with a (very small) grain of salt until I can touch the real thing and make my own evaluations. CAN YOU SAY "VAPORWARE"?............. I thought you could! 8-> --rick -- DISCLAIMER: The foregoing is the result of a brain frazzled by the effects of insufficient sleep and a noisy phone line, and in no way reflects the opinion of my employer, friends, or enemies. I'm not even sure I really wrote it. UUCP: {decwrl,pyramid}!sun!cti!frazier DDD: 408-734-8533
acs@amdahl.UUCP (02/28/87)
I've head that Commodore is gonna phase out the A-1000. I don't know if
this is true or not but I figured I'd throw my 2 cents in. I know nothing
of the A-500 nor any more of the A-2000 than what I've read in AmigaWorld.
Keep in mind that I've had my Amiga since around Dec 1, 1985 so I paid
more for it than what one can buy it for now (I paid $1295 and got 256K,
one drive and no monitor). At the time I thought it was a little pricey
but I had been looking for a machine for 2+ years. I'd looked at a mess of
MS-DOS machines and even the Unix-PC -- they didn't give me what I wanted
so when I saw the Amiga I *knew* it was what I wanted. To date I've added
256K expansion RAM and an external floppy drive (this last item I acquired
within the past month). I *still* use a regular old color TV set (NTSC).
The intro over, I've gotta admit that I'm not pleased with the rumor that
the A-1000 is going away. I know several people that have (or are in the
process of) selling their 1000s so they can get the 2000. AmigaWorld says
that the price (albeit preliminary) is < $1500 not including a monitor.
Add an lp monitor (< $500) and you've got $2000 invested. Granted, you
have 4 Amiga slots and 3 XT/AT slots and 1M memory with the capability to
expand to 3 internal drives (including a hard disk) but...for the "average"
user, big deal! Buy an A-1000 now for $995 (including monitor), a 1M
Starboard2 for $349 (0M, 1M address space) + $32 (16 256K x 1 150ns RAMs @
$2 each) + $300 for an upgrade to the lp monitor and you're still paying
only about $1800 (and that's not including any price drops on the 1000 that
will probably occur after the 2000 becomes available -- I figure a drop of
about $200, personally). An SCSI interface hard drive currently costs
around $700-$900 regardless of whether you put it in your 200 or your
1000. So Joe Average (someone like...ummm...well, me!) will end up paying
slightly *less* for a 1000 than a comparably equipped 2000 (am I wrong
here?). If I want IBM compatibility I buy a Sidecar (for around $600) and
get nearly what's in the 2000 for $100 more (but I'm *still* under the
2000's price).
The place that my reasoning breaks down is if an A1000 to A2000 bus
converter is either impossible or costs more than several hundred dollars
*and* I want a board that is only available in an A2000 breed.
Maybe Corporate America will buy soooo many 2000s that the price will drop
several hundred dollars within its first year (but I doubt it). My point,
though, is that I don't wanna pay for expansion that I'm not gonna use.
If I want to upgrade I'll buy an expansion box but if I'm *not* gonna
upgrade I don't need to pay for the expansion slots. Maybe the A500 will
address this issue, maybe it won't but that's how *I* see the situation.
--
Tony Sumrall acs@amdahl.amdahl.com <=> ...!{ihnp4,hplabs,seismo}!amdahl!acs
[ Opinions expressed herein are the author's and should not be construed
to reflect the views of Amdahl Corp. ]ali@navajo.UUCP (02/28/87)
In article <544@cti.cti.UUCP> frazier@cti.UUCP (Rick Frazier) writes: >In article <9599@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU>, (Gerard Lachac) writes: >> I've just read the A2000 preview in the March issue of Byte. In a word, >> awesome!! ... (This is no dream, I read this!!!!) > >Oh, you poor, misguided soul! 8-) The article you read may not >have been YOUR dream, but it's unclear how much of it was the result >of the Author's dreamworld or "visions". >CAN YOU SAY "VAPORWARE"?............. I thought you could! 8-> Oh, I don't think the Amiga 2000 is vaporware. Since I've first heard about it, I guess about a month ago, there has been a lot of discussions about it and at least 3 magazines (Byte, AmigaWorld, and Compute!) have published articles with pictures about this machine. Look at the Mega STs --- they were announced about a month ago, and I haven't seen a picture of it yet, anywhere (but I must confess I haven't looked at any ST magazines...). Also, the article is not a product of the author's "visions." When I first heard about the Sidecar, back in summer '86 at a BADGE meeting (RJ was the speaker), I thought, "really, full IBM compability?" I was sceptical, but only for half an hour --- then RJ brought out the Sidecar, plugged it in, and got the Flight Simulator running as a subtask before our very own eyes. I think articles like the one published in Byte should have been published about the Sidecar back then --- Amiga's IBM emulation, with hardware bit swapping, etc, is really pretty amazing, and does indeed exist. And, although the IBM emulation will not be useful to me, I know people who will buy the Amiga when they hear that for a few extra hundred bucks (I guess $500, or $600?) they will be able to run any IBM program they want. The joys of being able to run DBase III Plus and Marble Madness on the same machine! Being an academic programmer at Stanford (and also a student, but that's a constant background task...), I sometimes get IBM software manufacturers who try to demo their products to me (and a few other programmers). We sit in front of a PC and the rep plugs his/her demo in and shows off... I can't wait to get an A2000 with the IBM card and drive in my hands so that next time these reps come over I can sit all of us in front of an Amiga... Oh, one more point. Take a look at comp.sys.atari.st sometime and read all messages sent during the past two weeks with the word "Amiga" in them. Almost all of them are hate letters directed at Atari, sent by current ST owners. Seems like with the Mega STs Atari is kind of forgetting about the 520 and 1040 users, and these users are justifiably upset. Even Apple --- most recent rumors say that the open Mac they'll be announcing on Monday won't run some (a quarter, maybe?) of the current Mac Plus software. The machine isn't even multitasking, and they still aren't 100% compatible! Ali Ozer, ali@navajo.stanford.edu
kgschlueter@watrose.UUCP (03/02/87)
The Amiga 2000 is NOT vapourware. We had one at the last meeting of the UW Amiga Users Group. We opened it up, and if there were any jumpers, I didn't see them.
frazier@cti.UUCP (03/02/87)
In article <1421@navajo.STANFORD.EDU>, ali@navajo.STANFORD.EDU (Ali Ozer) writes: > In article <544@cti.cti.UUCP> frazier@cti.UUCP (Rick Frazier) writes: > >Oh, you poor, misguided soul! 8-) The article you read may not > >have been YOUR dream, but it's unclear how much of it was the result > >of the Author's dreamworld or "visions". > >CAN YOU SAY "VAPORWARE"?............. I thought you could! 8-> > > Oh, I don't think the Amiga 2000 is vaporware. Since I've first heard > about it, I guess about a month ago, there has been a lot of discussions about > it and at least 3 magazines (Byte, AmigaWorld, and Compute!) have > published articles with pictures about this machine. Look at the Mega STs --- Did 'ya notice the smiley faces? OK, I thought you did..... As you may guess by the summary line above, I believe that you really DID miss the major point of my posting. I'm NOT saying that the A2000 in itself is vaproware, but I AM SAYING THAT NO ONE, and I MEAN NO ONE, should make any MAJOR decisions based upon what they read in the mags..... Just look at the differences in the number os slots (and their usage) that they have talked about in the past month or so.... And as for the "picture", that's no big shake either. I've been with more than a few companies that made announcements with a picture of a "real" machine that was a MODEL. You know, made out of foam-core and wood and plexiglass by a mechanical engineer to show us what it will look like when the real plastic parts come back. I have had publicity releases so munged up by some reporter or editor as to make the content completely opposite of what I intended, though it's not certain whether the problem was that of space in the mag, or just misunderstanding by the media people in question. Reserve your final judgement for AFTER the machine is out in the "real world", and DON'T feel disappointed or blame Commodore if the machine doesn't meet your expectations, which were wholly based upon a magazine's printed version of a product announcement and some rumors heard from various sources. > Also, the article is not a product of the author's "visions." When I first > heard about the Sidecar, back in summer '86 at a BADGE meeting (RJ was the Yeah, I heard about the sidecar too, and I've seen more than one of 'em, but can you really buy one today? Walk into your local store and tell them you want one NOW. Maybe you'll be able to get one, maybe not (I'm not sure if they are really available even now, but if they are, it took WELL over a year after the "announcement" that there would be one, and at least 6 months from the time you were able to see one! If you remember, they allowed the stores to have one for only a day or two for demos only a few months ago.) > Oh, one more point. Take a look at comp.sys.atari.st sometime and read all > messages sent during the past two weeks with the word "Amiga" in them. Almost > all of them are hate letters directed at Atari, sent by current ST owners. > Seems like with the Mega STs Atari is kind of forgetting about the 520 and > 1040 users, and these users are justifiably upset. Even Apple --- most > recent rumors say that the open Mac they'll be announcing on Monday won't > run some (a quarter, maybe?) of the current Mac Plus software. The > machine isn't even multitasking, and they still aren't 100% compatible! > > Ali Ozer, ali@navajo.stanford.edu Notice that what you are basing your response on seems to be the old mac :vs: atari :vs: amiga wars again... I've no particular bone to pick with any of them, and enjoy the A1000 more than the pc's I've worked on. Besides, I don't care enough about the Atari machines to bother to even scan the newsgroup. The real catch, though is your phrase "most recent rumors". Keep in mind when you read ANY of the specifics in the magazines or EVEN in the usenet news groups (gasp!) that there may be misinformation due to any of the following: bias of the reporter; bias of the editor (if one); limited space for the article; lack of technical knowledge for either the reporter or editor; and the manner in which the original release was written. EVEN when they do a "PRODUCT EVALUATION" with a real machine sitting in fromt of them, there is a pretty good chance for the article to end up misinforming us on some (usually MINOR, thank goodness) point, so I guess we shouldn't expect things to be 100% accurate from a product release memo. I DOUBT that any of the misinformation is intentional, what with the way our minds work and all..... To repeat a sentence that I probably should have had in the original posting: Reserve your final judgement for AFTER the machine is out in the "real world", and DON'T feel disappointed or blame Commodore if the machine doesn't meet your expectations, which were wholly based upon a magazine's printed version of a product announcement and some rumors heard from various sources. --rick -- DISCLAIMER: The foregoing is the result of a brain frazzled by the effects of insufficient sleep and a noisy phone line, and in no way reflects the opinion of my employer, friends, or enemies. I'm not even sure I really wrote it. UUCP: {decwrl,pyramid}!sun!cti!frazier DDD: 408-734-8533
ali@rocky.UUCP (03/03/87)
In article <546@cti.cti.UUCP> frazier@cti.UUCP (Rick Frazier) writes: >Did 'ya notice the smiley faces? OK, I thought you did..... >As you may guess by the summary line above, I believe that you really DID >miss the major point of my posting. I'm NOT saying that the A2000 in itself >is vaproware, but I AM SAYING THAT NO ONE, and I MEAN NO ONE, should make any >MAJOR decisions based upon what they read in the mags..... Well, I guess I must agree with you --- You are right. But I did first read about the Amiga 1000 in an Byte article very much like the one about the 2000 that just appeared. (I think the original A1000 article was in the August '85 issue of Byte --- am I correct?) Anyway, I guess the A1000 was not out then, but, based on what I read in Byte, I did fall in love with it, and the machine did fulfill all my expectations (in fact much more) when I finally got it. So there are exceptions! 8-) Ali Ozer, ...decwrl!rocky.stanford.edu!ali, ali@rocky.stanford.edu
perry@sfsup.UUCP (03/03/87)
In article <5774@amdahl.UUCP>, acs@amdahl.UUCP writes: > I've head that Commodore is gonna phase out the A-1000. > The intro over, I've gotta admit that I'm not pleased with the rumor that > the A-1000 is going away. I know several people that have (or are in the > process of) selling their 1000s so they can get the 2000. The A2000 gives no new functionality or performance benefit over the A1000 apart from the (very attractive) capability for internal expansion. Owners of the A1000 have no reason to part with their current machine in favor of the A2000 (apart from wanting the best and latest of everything). Prospective Amiga owners with serious needs should of course consider the A2000 in their purchase plans. However, there are 200,000 plus A1000 own- ers out there who will be perfectly well served by existing third party expansion products (from reputable and not so reputable companies). Certainly if you have money invested in A1000 expansion hardware, there's more the consider than just unloading your c.p.u. cabinet. If you had purchased a full Zorro spec expansion board (to reside in a Zorro expansion box) you will have the opportunity to purchase from third party manufacturers some kind of widget which will allow you attach A2000 boards to an A1000. ASDG provides a full buy back to owners of our Mini-Rack-C and D when they wish to upgrade to a larger box. They send us in their current box, deduct the amount they paid for it from the cost of the new box, and (poof) a new box shows up (rather this is the way it *will* work when the new box is ready). The new box from us (working name A1500, I know! I know!) will provide two Zorro I (see! I coined another Amiga word (from the same man who brought you Fish Disks - they were Fred Fish's Freely Redistributable Software Library before I called them Fish Dicks in public one night, the rest is as they say, history)) slots for A1000 Zorro boards. The box also contains an 86 pin connector a la A2000, and a full A2000 Zorro II bus (with pc connectors). There's also space and power for two disk drives. We expect to provide this product at about $650.00 (less for ASDG custom- ers). The point of this message is to provide new information for concerned A1000 owners by dispelling some of their fears about being left out in the cold. ASDG is not the only manufacturer who has pledged to produce a prod- uct of this type. In deciding if it is a good idea to upgrade your A1000 to an A2000 (by selling it or by buying an A1500 type box) assess the costs of each path. Remember to include consideration for what you're going to do with your existing expansion products. (if you bought a slap-on-the-side doo-hickey, you're out of luck with respect to forward compatibility - but then - I've saying that all along). Perry S. Kivolowitz
grr@cbmvax.UUCP (03/05/87)
In article <5774@amdahl.UUCP> acs@amdahl.UUCP (Tony Sumrall) writes: >I've head that Commodore is gonna phase out the A-1000. I don't know if >this is true or not but I figured I'd throw my 2 cents in. I know nothing >of the A-500 nor any more of the A-2000 than what I've read in AmigaWorld. >The intro over, I've gotta admit that I'm not pleased with the rumor that >the A-1000 is going away. The official story is that the A1000 will remain available as long as there is sufficient demand to justify marketing it. On the other hand, with the pricing and features of the A500 and A2000, it is generally expected that there will be little demand for the A1000. The A500 is intended to list for much less than the A1000, while the base A2000 is supposed to sell in the same category as the A1000. This leaves the A1000 in a odd-man-out marketing position. -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {ihnp4|seismo|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: cbmvax!grr@seismo.css.GOV Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
bj@well.UUCP (03/05/87)
EDU> <8520@watrose.UUCP> Sender: Reply-To: bj@well.UUCP (Jim Becker) Followup-To: Distribution: world Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link, Sausalito, CA Keywords: The A2000 is Not VaPORWARE, IT IS THE GENUINE ARTICLE. expect wonderful things, and work on making theem. -Jim Becker Terrapin software
grr@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP (George Robbins) (03/06/87)
In article <1154@sfsup.UUCP> perry@sfsup.UUCP writes: >A2000 in their purchase plans. However, there are 200,000 plus A1000 own- >ers out there who will be perfectly well served by existing third party >expansion products (from reputable and not so reputable companies). The biggest number I've heard is still 150,000. Leting your market projections grow like fishing stories can lead to unpleasant surprises. >The new box from us (working name A1500, I know! I know!) will provide two >Zorro I (see! I coined another Amiga word (from the same man who brought >you Fish Disks - they were Fred Fish's Freely Redistributable Software >Library before I called them Fish Dicks in public one night, the rest is >as they say, history)) slots for A1000 Zorro boards. Hey boy, keepa you face outa our numbuz. 8-) You never know, if there is continuing demand for something looking like an A1000, *we* might want to make a new main board with ROM and 1MB, etc and call it an A1500... >Perry S. Kivolowitz -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {ihnp4|seismo|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: cbmvax!grr@seismo.css.GOV Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
perry@well.UUCP (Perry S. Kivolowitz) (03/07/87)
In article <1498@cbmvax.cbmvax.cbm.UUCP>, grr@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP (George Robbins) writes: > In article <1154@sfsup.UUCP> perry@sfsup.UUCP writes: > >The new box from us (working name A1500, I know! I know!) will provide two > > Hey boy, keepa you face outa our numbuz. 8-) You never know, if there is OK! Didn't like the name anyway but we had to call it something. We're now calling the box the ``2000 and 1'' Is that ok?
spencer@eris.BERKELEY.EDU (Randy Spencer) (03/07/87)
In article <1154@sfsup.UUCP> perry@sfsup.UUCP writes: > >The new box from us (working name A1500, I know! I know!) will provide two >Zorro I (see! I coined another Amiga word (from the same man who brought >you Fish Disks - they were Fred Fish's Freely Redistributable Software >Library before I called them Fish Dicks in public one night, the rest is >as they say, history)) slots for A1000 Zorro boards. > > >Perry S. Kivolowitz No, no, thats not it at all, *I* coined that name, long time ago, must have been ten...twen...One Hundred years ago, that's the ticket. Yeah, Mr. and Mrs. Fish didn't even know what to call the kid until they heard about the term I was spreading around town..Ameri...The United Nations! Yeah, that's it! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Randy Spencer P.O. Box 4542 Berkeley CA 94704 (415)284-4740 I N F I N I T Y BBS: (415)283-5469 Now working for |||||||||||::::... . . BUD-LINX But in no way |||||||||||||||::::.. .. . Officially representing ||||||||||||:::::... .. ....ucbvax!mica!spencer s o f t w a r e spencer@mica.berkeley.edu -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-