kleef@ark.UUCP (03/08/87)
I visited the Hannover Messe two days ago. There I saw the Commodore PC 1 (a cheap PC clone, much like the Atari PC [except for EGA and the drive located on the right side of the box]). I spoke to some Commodore officials and they said they discussed the release of a paperwhite monitor for the Amiga series. They also said they decided not to do it. My question: why? I have an Atari ST at home and must say I adore the monochrome monitor. As I use my computer for wordprocessing and an 'occasional' game, I very much like the solution Atari adopted to overcome the dilemma of color- and monochrome applications. That is: use a color monitor for games and a monochrome monitor for business-like applications. I agree the Amiga has superior graphics-facilities, but my choice for the Atari ST is based on the monochrome availability. I think the Amiga would be *greatly* enhanced if a monochrome monitor (paper- white, that is) would be available. Even if it means most of its color-features would not be used. I have a color monitor standing by, so I could switch to that if I feel like playing games. Could any1 in the Commodore-quarter shed some more light on this subject. * This is not meant as a flame of any kind and I don't wish for any Atari/Amiga fights to start. I MEAN IT!!* Paul 'Red' Molenaar PS I also saw a prototype of a Commodore SCSI harddisk for the Amiga computers. looked nice and ppl tell me it will be cheap. Any more news on that????
dillon@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) (03/08/87)
>My question: why? I have an Atari ST at home and must say I >adore the monochrome monitor. As I use my computer for wordprocessing >and an 'occasional' game, I very much like the solution Atari >adopted to overcome the dilemma of color- and monochrome >applications. That is: use a color monitor for games and a monochrome >monitor for business-like applications. Monocrome *is* nice, but Atari screwed up by not integrating monocrome/color into the operating system easily. For that price, I'll take a color-only (e.g. Amiga) anyday and simply get a good monitor. I have both an Amiga with a KV-1311CR analog RGB color monitor, and an IBM-XT with a monocrome monitor. Although the monocrome does look better, it doesn't look all that much better. It's not that it's sharper... it isn't, it's that the monocrome characters use a larger dot matrix and thus look better in a slightly higer resolution screen. Thank you, I'll take the color. Besides, I can get 702x230 non-interlace on my Amiga anyway. My personal opinion is that Atari screwed up by having their two different overall video modes require different physical monitors. -Matt
ravi@mcnc.UUCP (Ravi Subrahmanyan) (03/09/87)
In article <8703081013.AA13924@cory.Berkeley.EDU> dillon@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) writes: > >>My question: why? I have an Atari ST at home and must say I >>adore the monochrome monitor. ............. >>..... I very much like the solution Atari >>adopted to overcome the dilemma of color- and monochrome >>applications. That is: use a color monitor for games and a monochrome >>monitor for business-like applications. > > Monocrome *is* nice, but Atari screwed up by not integrating >monocrome/color into the operating system easily. For that price, I'll >take a color-only (e.g. Amiga) anyday and simply get a good monitor. > >I have both an Amiga with a KV-1311CR analog RGB color monitor, and an >IBM-XT with a monocrome monitor. Although the monocrome does look better, >it doesn't look all that much better. [.........] There simply isn't any comparison between the XT's monochrome and the ST's monochrome. One major reason I bought my ST is the quality of it's mono. display; I'd played quite a bit with a friend's Amiga before I got the ST, and I felt that the color display didn't even come close wrt. sharpness and suitability for prolonged useage (I'm -------------------------------- refering to the lower-res mode, the interlace mode is too hard on the eyes for even moderate useage with an 80 col. text-only screen). >My personal opinion is that Atari screwed up by having their two different >overall video modes require different physical monitors. Strrong vords here, ve demand dissent! 8^) Seriously, I don't know what options were available to Atari, and why they chose to have 2 different monitors, but I for one am very happy with the resulting mono. monitor; I have no use for a fancy color monitor, my old composite monitor is adequate when I need it. I *do* have a need for a good, flicker free, SHARP white-on-black monitor, and I'm glad Atari didn't compromise on it's quality in order to add in color. Please let's not start another war here.. my basic point is that the ST's monochrome is quite better than the kind we saw in it's price range previously (the Princeton Graphics or Wyse hi-res mono's for the IBM cost more than my whole system..) If someone feels like kicking off a generic mono vs. color debate, that's another issue altogether! -ravi ps: besides, the mono comes in handy when my schizophrenic ST's other half from the Mac world comes to visit..
grr@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP (George Robbins) (03/09/87)
In article <923@ark.cs.vu.nl> kleef@ark.cs.vu.nl (Patrick van Kleef) writes: >I visited the Hannover Messe two days ago. There I saw the Commodore PC 1 >(a cheap PC clone, much like the Atari PC [except for EGA and the drive located >on the right side of the box]). I spoke to some Commodore officials and they >said they discussed the release of a paperwhite monitor for the Amiga series. >They also said they decided not to do it. The paper white monitors, especially with the flat screens are still quite new. Samples are available, but most vendors are saying "real soon now". I suspect the monitors will be reconsidered when they are readily available and are priced competitivly. The A500 puts out a full-bandwidth composite grey-scale monochrome signal specifically for use in productivity applications. Since it corresponds to the color output, there are none of the software compatibility problems with the ST monochrome mode. The grey-scale gives sufficient distinction between "colors" for use with unmodifed "color" software. >PS I also saw a prototype of a Commodore SCSI harddisk for the Amiga computers. >looked nice and ppl tell me it will be cheap. Any more news on that???? The unit you saw was a (working) concept model to see what kind of interest there would be in a "Amiga" branded hard disk. We want to have some kind of SCSI drive/attachment available with the A500 - the exact form is yet to be determined. -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {ihnp4|seismo|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: cbmvax!grr@seismo.css.GOV Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
spencer@mica.BERKELEY.EDU (Randy Spencer) (03/10/87)
In article <2098@alvin.mcnc.UUCP> ravi@alvin.UUCP (Ravi Subrahmanyan) writes: >In article <8703081013.AA13924@cory.Berkeley.EDU> dillon@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) writes: >> >>>..... I very much like the solution Atari >>>adopted to overcome the dilemma of color- and monochrome >> >> Monocrome *is* nice > > One major reason I bought my ST is the quality >of it's mono. display; > > I *do* have a >need for a good, flicker free, SHARP white-on-black monitor, and I'm >glad Atari didn't compromise on it's quality in order to add in color. > > Please let's not start another war here.. > > -ravi > The thought that came to mind was, now that IBM has all these new "paperwhite" monitors coming to market, can't we hook up the digital RGB outputs of the Amiga to one of these monitors as TTL input? Then you get a B&W _and_ a color analog RGB display. PS. thanks for all the responses to the Transistor question. I'll work on it this week. PPS. I got my hands on a CMI model CM 5619 40 meg hard disk (37.5 formatted) hard disk. Is there any one who knows if I could use the C Ltd. hard disk controller to hook it up? It has a real weird connecter (not like a Mac hard disk or anything). C Ltd. is the only manufacturer who makes just the SCSI controller right? (don't want to have to swap PAL's if I don't have to!) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Randy Spencer P.O. Box 4542 Berkeley CA 94704 (415)284-4740 I N F I N I T Y BBS: (415)283-5469 Now working for |||||||||||::::... . . BUD-LINX But in no way |||||||||||||||::::.. .. . Officially representing ||||||||||||:::::... .. ....ucbvax!mica!spencer s o f t w a r e spencer@mica.berkeley.edu -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-lie
ee173way@sdcc3.UUCP (03/11/87)
Randy, aren't the CMI hard drives the ones that are currently being used as artificial reefs for ocean life? (literally) John 7OHN
grr@cbmvax.UUCP (03/11/87)
In article <2741@jade.BERKELEY.EDU> spencer@mica.BERKELEY.EDU (Randy Spencer) writes: > >The thought that came to mind was, now that IBM has all these new "paperwhite" >monitors coming to market, can't we hook up the digital RGB outputs of the >Amiga to one of these monitors as TTL input? Then you get a B&W _and_ a >color analog RGB display. You can - but for good results you need an composite (analog) monochrome monitor or one that has built-in CGA/EGA-->grey scale conversion. The default screen presentations on a 2-level IBM TTL monochrome monitor are difficult to work with, although if you work in a CLI/Utility environment you wouldn't have too much difficulty. "Paper White" is definitly something we are looking at. I've seen one cruddy monitor and one *nice* one so far. Remember that the Amiga has relatively generic video outputs, and can be made to work with just about any monitor that has NTSC sync timings, or can be adjusted/tweaked so. >PPS. I got my hands on a CMI model CM 5619 40 meg hard disk (37.5 formatted) >hard disk. If you got it because it was cheap, then be sure to use it on somebody's PC for a while before you spring for an Amiga controller. There are a lot of marginal to dead CMI drives floating around these days... -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {ihnp4|seismo|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: cbmvax!grr@seismo.css.GOV Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
spencer@eris.UUCP (03/11/87)
In article <3791@sdcc3.ucsd.EDU> ee173way@sdcc3.ucsd.edu.UUCP (John Schultz) writes: > > Randy, aren't the CMI hard drives the ones that are currently being >used as artificial reefs for ocean life? (literally) > > John > 7OHN Is that why I am having such a hard time with this thing? No wonder I can't get CMI on the phone... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Randy Spencer P.O. Box 4542 Berkeley CA 94704 (415)284-4740 I N F I N I T Y BBS: (415)283-5469 Now working for |||||||||||::::... . . BUD-LINX But in no way |||||||||||||||::::.. .. . Officially representing ||||||||||||:::::... .. ....ucbvax!mica!spencer s o f t w a r e spencer@mica.berkeley.edu -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
ee173way@sdcc3.UUCP (03/12/87)
Randy, how far away from the water are you? Maybe you should make a contribution to nature... John 7OHN
spencer@mica.UUCP (03/13/87)
In article <3796@sdcc3.ucsd.EDU> ee173way@sdcc3.ucsd.edu.UUCP (John Schultz) writes: > > Randy, how far away from the water are you? Maybe you should make >a contribution to nature... > > John > 7OHN I live right on the water, and I already did. Got a new drive coming. Still need to find out about hooking up SCSI drives. Just read a long article about making a normal disk into a SCSI one, now I need to learn about formatting for the Amiga. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Randy Spencer P.O. Box 4542 Berkeley CA 94704 (415)284-4740 I N F I N I T Y BBS: (415)283-5469 Now working for |||||||||||::::... . . BUD-LINX But in no way |||||||||||||||::::.. .. . Officially representing ||||||||||||:::::... .. ....ucbvax!mica!spencer s o f t w a r e spencer@mica.berkeley.edu -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
wagner@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu (03/17/87)
In article <2782@jade.BERKELEY.EDU> spencer@mica.BERKELEY.EDU (Randy Spencer) writes: >In article <3796@sdcc3.ucsd.EDU> ee173way@sdcc3.ucsd.edu.UUCP (John Schultz) writes: >> >> Randy, how far away from the water are you? Maybe you should make >>a contribution to nature... >> >> John >> 7OHN > >I live right on the water, and I already did. Randy: Did you check if CMI drives are certified Biodegradable? Perhaps you have committed an offense against mother earth! On second thought, they probably don't last nearly as long in salt water as in fresh water. And maybe the fish are low on iron anyways. :-) Michael