daveb@cbmvax.UUCP (02/25/87)
Has anyone had any experience with Rogue by Epyx for the Amiga?
What version does it implement? How does 'Temple of Apshai Trilogy' compare?
--
David Berezowski {caip,ihnp4,allegra,seismo}!cbmvax!daveb
Disclaimer: I work for myself, so my words must be my own.
(You may borrow them if you like)spierce@crash.UUCP (02/26/87)
Rogue is very similar to the PD game Hack 1.1, though it has nicer graphics.
ewhac@well.UUCP (02/26/87)
In article <1465@cbmvax.cbmvax.cbm.UUCP> daveb@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP (Dave Berezowski GUEST) writes: > > Has anyone had any experience with Rogue by Epyx for the Amiga? >What version does it implement? How does 'Temple of Apshai Trilogy' compare? "Rogue" and "Apshai" are two completely different things. You'll have to play "Apshai" to understand the differences. Personally, I'm no great fan of "Apshai." As for "Rogue," why pay Epyx money when you can get "Hack" from The Software Distillery for nothing? "Hack" has more features, you can get the source (sort of), it's not copy-protected, and it's FREE. Epyx "Rogue" seems to resemble version 3.something with revisions and enhancements. _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Leo L. Schwab ihnp4!ptsfa!well!ewhac The Guy in The Cape ..or.. well ---\ "Work FOR? I don't work FOR dual ----> !unicom!ewhac anybody. I'm just having fun." hplabs -/ ("AE-wack")
amb@macs.UUCP (02/27/87)
In article <1465@cbmvax.cbmvax.cbm.UUCP>, daveb@cbmvax.UUCP writes: > > Has anyone had any experience with Rogue by Epyx for the Amiga? > What version does it implement? How does 'Temple of Apshai Trilogy' compare? I've used Rogue by Epyx for the IBM and I've been very disappointed with it. I like a challenging game, but this is almost impossible. You start out with 12 HP and just about any monster can kill you with one hit. I've been a level 5 character with 50+ HP and been killed by one hit from a bat! I've also been unable to retrieve a stored game (yes, I've even followed the instructions, but to no avail). I was going to call them on this, but they don't have an 800 number. Never having played the 'Temple of Apshai Trilogy', I can't compare them. --Anita
nelson@ohlone.UUCP (03/01/87)
> > Has anyone had any experience with Rogue by Epyx for the Amiga? > >I've used Rogue by Epyx for the IBM and I've been very disappointed >with it. I like a challenging game, but this is almost impossible. I am the brother of Epyx's VP of programmimg, and my boss is the mother of the guy who wrote Rogue, so I suppose I can answer any questions about this you may have. It IS a challenging game, and it IS almost impossible. Luck plays a large part and nobody (including the author) can win more than a small fraction of the time. There are lots of tricks (like what exactly a scroll of "scare monster" is and how it works) without which it is virtually impossible to win. For those that don't know (including probably these two) Rogue was originally written by Michael Toy (et al) to run under UNIX, needing only a dumb terminal with cursor addressing. The game was a big hit, and I believe it was distributed for a time as part of the "standard" BSD unix releases (maybe still is?). Toy formed a company to try to sell later versions of the game. He was never able to break into marketing in a big way though, so eventually turned to Epyx. They act as a marketing/distributing agent for the software, and have helped with some of the ports to other machines, although Michael still does most of the work. This is a commercial product, and so source is not availible. The Epyx version(s) are fairly close to the original unix game (some of the monsters have been changed around a bit). More recent games (notably "Hack") owe a lot of their look and feel to the original Rogue, but have added numerous bells and whisles, as well as being availible in the public domain. Well, enough of this. Hope this hasn't been too boring to those of you who already knew this. ------ Bron Nelson; {ihnp4, lll-lcc}!ohlone!nelson Not the opinions of Cray Research
nelson@ohlone.UUCP (03/01/87)
In article <135@ohlone.UUCP>, nelson@ohlone.UUCP (Bron Nelson) writes: > The Epyx version(s) are fairly close to the original unix game (some > of the monsters have been changed around a bit). More recent games > (notably "Hack") owe a lot of their look and feel to the original > Rogue, but have added numerous bells and whisles, as well as being > availible in the public domain. Oops ... before I get into any trouble over this, let me state emphatically that I BELIEVE that Hack is a public domain product, but I have NO association with Hack or its author(s), and the above does NOT constitute a license to copy or distribute Hack (or any other product). ------ Bron Nelson; {ihnp4, lll-lcc}!ohlone!nelson Not the opinions of Cray Research
woods@parcvax.UUCP (03/01/87)
amb@macs.UUCP writes: | In article <1465@cbmvax.cbmvax.cbm.UUCP>, daveb@cbmvax.UUCP writes: | > | > Has anyone had any experience with Rogue by Epyx for the Amiga? | > What version does it implement? How does 'Temple of Apshai Trilogy' compare? | | You start out with 12 HP and just about any monster can kill you | with one hit. I've been a level 5 character with 50+ HP and been | killed by one hit from a bat!... My wife works at Epyx, and we have a (well-worn) copy of Rogue at home. I'd played a lot of Rogue 5.2 on Unix before, and I think the Amiga version is pretty good. I've also played Rogue on the PC and on the Mac (dunno if those versions were from Epyx, though), and the Amiga version is far superior--good use of the screen (e.g., the Mac version doesn't show you the whole level at once) and good user interface. As for the problems reported by AMB, it sounds to me like that version got screwed over somehow. The symptoms described (particularly, being killed by a single hit despite gross hit points) are what I've seen when I try copying the disk or doing something else that makes it consider me a "software pirate". The giveaway is that the tombstone says "Killed by a protection thug". I had that happen to one disk for no apparent reason, and we exchanged it for a new one. Of course, I don't know how readily they do this for non-employees. I've also tried the Temple of Apshai, and I don't like it. It's basically a text adventure game where they don't show you the text unless you ask for it, and instead you get to see a dull, featureless picture on the screen. The instructions are poor, and the game doesn't do anything to stop you from generating grossly powerful characters. -- -- -- Don Woods. [*** Generic Disclaimer ***] -- ...!decwrl!parcvax!woods -or- Woods.pa@Xerox.com
hatcher@INGRES.BERKELEY.EDU.UUCP (03/02/87)
It's true that Rogue is almost impossible to win by design; this can be very frustrating, but it really adds to the delight when you finally manage a very good game (never mind winning!). Along with Michael Toy, it should be mentioned that Ken Arnold did vast amounts of work on it before it was sold commercially, and is responsible for a great many of the features and bug fixes. Doug
dturner@imagen.UUCP (The Vampire LeStat) (03/06/87)
> Has anyone had any experience with Rogue by Epyx for the Amiga? > What version does it implement? How does 'Temple of Apshai Trilogy' compare Not for the amiga, but on the atari 520 ST it is an exelant game, I can't see how it can be as good on the amiga :-). The graf. are well done and the game play is quick and easy, no complants here About the apshai trilogy, no compairson, rogue is defently better, (not saying to much, apshai is a big disapointment) -- ---- It's not my planet monkey-boy Name: David R. Turner UUCP: ...{decvax,ucbvax}!decwrl!imagen!dturner
doc@j.cc.purdue.edu (Craig Norborg) (03/06/87)
In article <21187161@macs.UUCP> amb@macs.UUCP writes: >In article <1465@cbmvax.cbmvax.cbm.UUCP>, daveb@cbmvax.UUCP writes: >> >> Has anyone had any experience with Rogue by Epyx for the Amiga? >> What version does it implement? How does 'Temple of Apshai Trilogy' compare? > > I've used Rogue by Epyx for the IBM and I've been very disappointed > with it. I like a challenging game, but this is almost impossible. On the other hand, Rogue for the Amiga is the best version of Rogue that I have ever played on just about any machine. Unlike Epyx's version on the IBM or AtariST, it is very playable! All of the standard Unix movement keys are available. In addition, they have provided a very playable mouse interface also, unlike the interface on the ST which I find to be more of a detrement than a help. The game is not overly easy, nor unduly hard. Graphics have also been added to the game, and I don't find them to be distracting at all. All in all, I think the version of Rogue on the Amiga (by Epyx) is just about the most enjoyable version of Rogue that I have had the chance to play... Craig Norborg comp.sources.amiga moderator doc@j.cc.purdue.edu
jwabik@umnd-cs.UUCP (03/14/87)
In article <2657@well.UUCP>, ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) writes: > In article <1465@cbmvax.cbmvax.cbm.UUCP> daveb@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP (Dave Berezowski GUEST) writes: > > Has anyone had any experience with Rogue by Epyx for the Amiga? > As for "Rogue," why pay Epyx money when you can get "Hack" from The > Software Distillery for nothing? "Hack" has more features, you can get the > source (sort of), it's not copy-protected, and it's FREE. > Where/How does one contact the Software Distillery to get a copy of Hack? I've got version 1.0.1E (The one that says, "Ported by John Toebes III") all over it), but it has some nasty bugs (like not letting you go below level 26) and tends to GURU me all the time.
kent@xanth.UUCP (Kent Paul Dolan) (03/17/87)
In article <433@umnd-cs-gw.umnd-cs.D.UMN.EDU> jwabik@umnd-cs.D.UMN.EDU (Jeff Wabik) writes: >In article <2657@well.UUCP>, ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) writes: >> In article <1465@cbmvax.cbmvax.cbm.UUCP> daveb@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP (Dave Berezowski GUEST) writes: >> > Has anyone had any experience with Rogue by Epyx for the Amiga? >> As for "Rogue," why pay Epyx money when you can get "Hack" from The >> Software Distillery for nothing? "Hack" has more features, you can get the >> source (sort of), it's not copy-protected, and it's FREE. >> >Where/How does one contact the Software Distillery to get a copy of Hack? >I've got version 1.0.1E (The one that says, "Ported by John Toebes III") >all over it), but it has some nasty bugs (like not letting you go below >level 26) and tends to GURU me all the time. I tend to get a bit miffed by a conversation like this. First, Epyx's Rogue game is a delightful game in itself. It is a collateral decendent of a common ancester with Hack, an older rogue game. There is no purpose in avoiding the buying of commercial software. If that becomes a common attitude, there will very soon be NO commercial software written. Then we can all use our Amigas for their design purpose: $1300 paperweights. If you want good software to be written for this machine, buy some. That will convince the writers that there is a market. OR, don't, and convince them the opposite; your choice. Second, Hack is not "free"; it is shareware. Again, if you want to see more, you have to LET GO OF SOME MONEY! By releasing Hack as shareware, John A. Toebes VIII and his friends at the Software Distillery save you between 75% and 90% of the cost of the same software with the overhead of packaging, printed documentation, originating company's profit, formal distribution costs, distributer's profit, retailer's costs, and retailer's profit added in; all of your money goes to reward the author/adapter, a very cost effective way of encouraging the production of more high quality, cheap software. Show some appreciation; send the guys their ten bucks! If you don't, guess what other source of software for your potential-approaching-certainty paperweight will quickly dry up. [This is especially a tender subject with me. I released a (fairly crude, but educational and bug free) AmigaBASIC drawing package on this network about seven months ago as shareware. Not only did I not get any money back for 80 hours of work, I never even got an acknowledgement or a "Thank you." Guess how much time I have spent preparing better shareware competitors for Deluxe Paint II? Can you spell "zero"? I knew you could!] Anyway, this is at least AN address for the Software Distillery folks, at John's residence; it is the most recent I have. I strongly suggest sending along some money; I doubt strongly that they will be interested in going out of pocket to give some mooch a game: The Software Distillery c/o John A. Toebes VIII 120-H Northington Place Cary, North Carolina 27511 By the way, John and his friends adapted the game of Hack, originally written by a German whose name I don't have handy (but has appeared within the last few weeks in the appropriate newsgroup, rec.games.hack), to the Amiga, and, in the latest release, modified what was basically a character graphics game to have true (if tiny) graphic monsters, walls, and hallways. Because an unscrupulous company redistributed the Hack game for profit, John no longer distributes source, a real shame for those of us who just like to read how it was done, without having the talent to do it ourselves, for the education it gives. Since Hack is a game to which many contribute, and there are ongoing modifications to the game, Amiga Hack is now a diverging branch of the Hack tree, and will probably remain so. Hack for the Amiga is also available, as Fred Fish Disk #25, for $7 from: PiM Publications, Inc. P. O. Box 869 Fall River, MA 02722. Almost every Amiga users' group also has it in the group's library. Even if you get it from one of these sources, STILL send $10 to John and the Software Distillery, or else ... (See tediously repetitive argument above.). ;-) -- Kent Paul Dolan, "The Contradictor", 25 years as a programmer, CS MS Student at ODU, Norfolk, Virginia, to find out how I was supposed to be doing this stuff all these years. 3D dynamic motion graphics a specialty. Work wanted. Unemployment is soooo nice though...I never have to disclaim anything! UUCP : kent@xanth.UUCP or ...seismo!decuac!edison!xanth!kent CSNET : kent@odu.csnet ARPA : kent@xanth.cs.odu.edu Voice : (804) 587-7760 USnail: P.O. Box 1559, Norfolk, Va 23501-1559 Wisdom: "Peace in mankind's lifetime. Why leave a whole universe unexplored?"
dormitzer@husc4.HARVARD.EDU (paul dormitzer) (03/19/87)
In article <710@xanth.UUCP> kent@xanth.UUCP (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: > >Second, Hack is not "free"; it is shareware. Again, if you want to see more, >you have to LET GO OF SOME MONEY! By releasing Hack as shareware, John A. >Toebes VIII and his friends at the Software Distillery save you between 75% >and 90% of the cost of the same software with the overhead of packaging, >printed documentation, originating company's profit, formal distribution costs, >distributer's profit, retailer's costs, and retailer's profit added in; all >of your money goes to reward the author/adapter, a very cost effective way of >encouraging the production of more high quality, cheap software. Show some >appreciation; send the guys their ten bucks! If you don't, guess what other >source of software for your potential-approaching-certainty paperweight will >quickly dry up. > Excuse me, but sending money to people who are merely modifying others' code is probably one of the most thoughtless things you can do to the original authors of the game, who released it as publilc domain to the net. They weren't asking for money, but requested that all copies sent out had their name kept on it and that no-one else would make money off of it. If these guys are making money by distributing someone else's software, why support them? If they're merely recouping media cost for duplication and duplication time, that's another issue, but no matter how many mods they have made to the program, it still isn't theirs. If you write them and ask for a copy, whatever they charge for their effort is fair, but if you get a copy it from a friend, you might owe that friend, but you owe NOTHING to "The Software Distillary". The following is an extract from READ_ME in the 1.0.2 distribution: Hack was originally written by Jay Fenlason (at lincolnsudbury: 29 East St., Sudbury Mass., 01776) with help from Kenny Woodland, Mike Thome and Jon Payne. . . . Send complaints, bug reports, suggestions for improvements to mcvax!aeb - in real life Andries Brouwer. Each source file in the 1.0.2 distribution starts out as follows: /* Copyright (c) Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam, 1985. */ /* hack.c - version 1.0.2 */ Don't send money to people who are infringing on others' copywright! --- Paul Dormitzer (dormitzer@husc4.harvard.edu)