gwe@cbosgd.UUCP (03/27/87)
References: Before I bought my Amiga (last November) I owned an Apple //e. I still have it, some 4 years after purchase. I have over 150 disks for my Apple; the 5.25" floppy sort. I use all kinds of disks; Sony, Verbatim, etc, etc, everything from the best to the worst. Most of these have been punched so I can use the (uncertified) back side. I use single-sided, double-sided, and single- or double-density. In short, if it's about the right size and black, I've used it in my Apple drive. I've left them in the sun, let them gather dust without their sleeves on, spilled pop on them, written on them with ballpoint pens, and even rolled my chair over one. Not one has failed. Not a single bad disk. No lost data, corrupted files, ruined programs. Never has the Apple itself ruined one, either. Last night, I was impressing my friends (and myself) with the realistic sound effects on Microprose's Silent Service. Then, I gave them a quick demo of DPaint II. After the oohs and ahhs, we left the box on while we got dinner. A couple hours later, I returned and flipped on the monitor. Everything was OK. As I wanted to play Silent Service again, I put in the disk and did a warm boot. After a while, the Silent Service intro picture came up; but mangled, and in the wrong colors. The Amiga then froze, keyboard locked, and drive "In Use" light blazing. I could hear the drive spinning. I gave the machine a minute to come down, then reconciled myself to (yet another) pointless crash. I rebooted. The Silent Service picture loaded normally, but quickly disappeared leaving a blank Workbench screen. The mouse worked, and I could "roll down" the screen, but that was it. My disk is screwed. One of these neat new 3.5" wonders, with a hard cover and spring-loaded metal protector. Guaranteed to protect your valuable data from the harshest environments. Except that nothing can protect you from a hungry DOS. This sounds like a bad movie: Amigados 1.2: It came from Hell, to feast on the software of the living ! See it in a computer near you ! Oh, well, I'm sure the nice folks at Microprose will replace my disk for me, and in a few short weeks, I'll be able to play Silent Service again. Meanwhile, I guess I'll just have to fire up the ol' Apple, which is sitting there with a condescending smirk on its face. ------------------------------clip and save---------------------------------- Bill Thacker cbatt!cbosgd!gwe DISCLAIMER: Farg 'em if they can't take a joke ! "The two most common things in the Universe are hydrogen and stupidity" - Harlan Ellison -----------------------------valuable coupon---------------------------------
cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (03/30/87)
In article <3489@cbosgd.ATT.COM>, gwe@cbosgd.ATT.COM (George Erhart) writes:
[ First lots of stuff about how reliable 5-1/4" disks are ...]
< Last night, I was impressing my friends (and myself) with the realistic
< sound effects on Microprose's Silent Service. Then, I gave them a quick
< demo of DPaint II. After the oohs and ahhs, we left the box on while we got
< dinner.
<
< A couple hours later, I returned and flipped on the monitor. Everything
< was OK. As I wanted to play Silent Service again, I put in the disk and
< did a warm boot. After a while, the Silent Service intro picture came up;
< but mangled, and in the wrong colors. The Amiga then froze, keyboard
< locked, and drive "In Use" light blazing. I could hear the drive spinning.
... The disk is definitely gone here but wait there is more ...
< My disk is screwed. One of these neat new 3.5" wonders, with a hard cover and
< spring-loaded metal protector. Guaranteed to protect your valuable data from
< the harshest environments.
<
< Except that nothing can protect you from a hungry DOS.
<
Good guess, but probably wrong. I have gone through *three* disks of
silent service, two spontaneously died and the third would not boot
one day. The word is that the copy protection is so horrendous that
getting this thing to play more than ten times is practically impossible.
I have since had my money refunded. I have no use for programs that
can't survive their own copy protection.
--
--Chuck McManis
uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com
These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.hadeishi@husc7.UUCP (03/30/87)
Summary: Re: 150 5 1/4" disks that never go bad . . . . If you checked all of those disks carefully, I GUARANTEE you that at least two or three of them are bad. Not necessarily the ones with the ball-point markers or the ones that you folded up or ran over with your chair, but if you have some 3M disks they are guaranteed to be bad. Believe me. I know. I've owned Apple II disks before too. -Mitsu
kurt@fluke.UUCP (03/30/87)
OK guys, lets get real again. The apple II puts what, 90K on a disk? Or maybe a whopping great 160K like the commodore 64? On disks that were at least possibly meant for the IBMPC which puts an incredible (-: 340K on a disk. (or is that double sided?) On those huge 5 1/4" disks? Those disks had huge fat bits out there on the media. On the Amiga you are talking about 800K formatted. More tracks per inch, more bits per track. You just can't abuse an amiga disk like an apple II. Nobody puts more data on a disk than amiga. You don't have the comfort of the same huge margins you had on the apple II. You are going to have to get used to some things, like buying expensive brand name disks. Like cleaning your drive if you use it all the time. Like having occasional failures from old disks. Like having your drive aligned every year or two. These things are nothing new, and they cannot be blamed (completely) on the DOS from Hell. Welcome to the world of professional-quality systems. Welcome to the state of the art. When you push things to the limit, you have to be a little more careful. You can't cut corners as much as you are used to.
lachac@topaz.UUCP (03/31/87)
In article <17@gnome.cs.cmu.edu> hugo@gnome.cs.cmu.edu (Peter Su) writes: > >Er, actually, the apple II can now use little 3.5 inch disks that hold 800K. >Just like Macs, Ataris and Amigas. > >Pete Actually the Amiga holds 880k on a disk. There are 1.2 meg and (Just trying to get all the facts straight.) (Even though there are no straight lines in nature...) I think 2 meg 3-1/2" drives that are in "Hack Packs" for the IBM PC. -- "Truth is false and logic lost..." - Neil Peart (who at the time didn't realize he was talking about RU) lachac@topaz.rutgers.edu <--------OR--------> {seismo|ames}!rutgers!topaz!lachac
keithe@tekgvs.UUCP (03/31/87)
Sorry, but I can't let this one go by without comment (but read the last paragraph before you hit the F or R key, ok?): In article <652@dragon.tc.fluke.COM> kurt@tc.fluke.COM (Kurt Guntheroth) writes: >[stuff comparing data storage of apple, commodore, ibm and amiga]. >...More tracks per inch, more bits per track. You just can't >abuse an amiga disk like an apple II. Nobody puts more data on a disk than >amiga. You don't have the comfort of the same huge margins you had on the >apple II. You are going to have to get used to some things, like buying >expensive brand name disks. OK - that seems fair. >...Like cleaning your drive if you use it all the time. Likewise, a little maintenance goes a long way (but tends to get forgotten, like backing up hard disk drives, eh?) >...Like having occasional failures from old disks. Absolutely unacceptable! >...Like having your drive aligned every year or two. Maybe, maybe not. What ever happened to quality construction? >...These things are nothing new, and they >cannot be blamed (completely) on the DOS from Hell. Welcome to the world of >professional-quality systems. Welcome to the state of the art. If this is state of the art then the artists need drawing lessons! And professional-quality systems?! Home-brewed systems, lashed together with CK722's, 2N109's and parts from the Country Store maybe, but not from an alleged electronics manufacturer with its corporate reputation at stake. If my digital voltmeter started reading AC when I pushed the DC button I wouldn't call it state of the art! I'd call it BROKEN! >When you push things to the limit, you have to be a little more careful. >You can't cut corners as much as you are used to. Agreed - but the antecedent to your pronoun "you" is COMMODORE, not "the customer." And if they're putting out products that can't make the grade under normal use (which was the gist of the original complaint, I believe) then they deserve to be abandoned. NOW for the "last paragraph" I mentioned in the first line: on the other hand, if the problem truly emanates from the insidious copy protection scheme used, as alleged by another poster, then it is the company using this protection scheme that deserves to be abandoned, not commodore/amiga. Hey, how many OTHER (read "normal, high-quality, double-sided, quad density") disks have had problems like this, anyway? keith (feel free to comment, flames to /dev/null) ericson
dpvc@ur-tut.UUCP (04/03/87)
In article <3489@cbosgd.ATT.COM> gwe@cbosgd.UUCP (Bill Thacker) writes: >Last night, I was impressing my friends (and myself) with the realistic >sound effects on Microprose's Silent Service. Then, I gave them a quick >demo of DPaint II. After the oohs and ahhs, we left the box on while we got >dinner. > >A couple hours later, I returned and flipped on the monitor. Everything was OK. >As I wanted to play Silent Service again, I put in the disk and did a warm boot. >After a while, the Silent Service intro picture came up; but mangled, and in the >wrong colors. The Amiga then froze, keyboard locked, and drive "In Use" light >blazing. I could hear the drive spinning. > ... >Except that nothing can protect you from a hungry DOS. My copy of Silent Service also has had troubles (won't always boot, won't always start a patrol, etc.). In fact, in order to get it to work at all, I have to play a Convoy mission before I can begin a Patrol! The problem isn't the DOS (this time! :-), it's the *STUPID* copy protection stuff again. I should have learned not to purchase a protected program by now! My dealer says that EVERY SINGLE COPY of Silent Service that he's sold has had problems! How's that for protection! > >This sounds like a bad movie: >Amigados 1.2: It came from Hell, to feast on the software of the living ! >See it in a computer near you ! Except it's not the DOS's fault this time. > >Oh, well, I'm sure the nice folks at Microprose will replace my disk for me, >and in a few short weeks, I'll be able to play Silent Service again. It was the "nice folks at Mircoprose" who caused the problem int the first place (with their copy protection). I think the game itself is great. One of my favorites (next to Marble Madness),but I just can't imagine how a company can sell something that destroys itself after about 5 uses (I know how, because jerks like me buy it! I will have to think very seriously about purchasing any more protected programs). > Bill Thacker cbatt!cbosgd!gwe Davide P. Cervone University of Rochester DPVC@UORDBV.BITNET dpvc@ur-tut.UUCP dpvc@tut.cc.rochester.EDU Standard disclaimer assumed.