ed@plx.UUCP (03/30/87)
While far from a lecture or a performance, Todd Rundgren's "Master's Demo" at the West Coast Computer Faire was interesting nonetheless. The theme of the presentation was "Crackpot Software" or unconventional approaches to music composition/performance using a computer. Todd used a Macintosh and a new Mac II to demonstrate some really *NEAT* software like "Studio Session Player". Rundgren thought this a "Crackpot" piece of software because of the almost overdone graphics (it looks like a casette player on the screen). Crackpot is not inherently a negative discription. Todd made no complaints about the software he demoed other than the fact that they were not yet available. An interesting demo involved a package called "M". M is a transition-table based tool for exploring permutations of a musical theme. Another interesting package, whose name escapes me now, used a grid to display and manipulate chords. I think he said that someone at the MIT media-lab write it. Todd seemed annoyed with the fact that AMIGA had blown him off completely. He was expecting an AMIGA rep to show up with some software to demo. While he did not think the AMIGA was a Crackpot machine, he suggested that those who were involved with marketing the AMIGA may be so since AMIGA was happy to have Todd's AMIGA serve as lampstand during the demo. TODD NEVER EVEN BOOTED THE THING UP! I was SHOCKED by the quality of the "Studio Session Player" package from BOGAS <<---(that's their name folks!). Considering the fact that there was *NO* additional hardware required to get SAMPLED SOUNDS on a Mac. Is this really true? I swear, it sounded better than the AMIGA. Drum sounds too! Electric Guitar! WOW! OH, Todd briefly played some sampled sounds on the Mac II! WOW! Todd said he heard someone had completely downloaded a copy of Peter Gabriel's "SO" album on to a Mac II hard disk. This same someone was able to play it back through the Mac II's 16-Bit D/A's!! -ed-
rap@dana.UUCP (03/31/87)
In article <577@plx.UUCP>, ed@plx.UUCP (Ed Chaban) writes: > > While far from a lecture or a performance, Todd Rundgren's "Master's Demo" > at the West Coast Computer Faire was interesting nonetheless. > > I was SHOCKED by the quality of the "Studio Session Player" package > from BOGAS <<---(that's their name folks!). Considering the fact > that there was *NO* additional hardware required to get SAMPLED SOUNDS > on a Mac. Is this really true? I swear, it sounded better than the > AMIGA. Drum sounds too! Electric Guitar! WOW! > On a lighter note, one comment that probably was missed by most people was that ALL-BUT-ONE (and I don't recall which that was) of the demos that he showed used EXTERNAL-MIDI for the playback. In other words, only one of the demos used the Mac to synthesize sound on the fly. This was stated at 12:10, just as I was getting up to leave and revisit the dealer area. Just thought I'd pass on what I remember hearing. Yes the sounds were very good, but... is it MIDI or is it M*C ?????????? (sigh) Rob Peck hplabs!dana!rap
RLWALD@pucc.UUCP (03/31/87)
In article <577@plx.UUCP>, ed@plx.UUCP (Ed Chaban) writes: >OH, Todd briefly played some sampled sounds on the Mac II! WOW! >Todd said he heard someone had completely downloaded a copy of >Peter Gabriel's "SO" album on to a Mac II hard disk. This same >someone was able to play it back through the Mac II's 16-Bit D/A's!! Maybe on a really large disk, with a reduced sampling rate! But the Mac II only has 8-bit D/A's built in. -Rob Wald Bitnet: RLWALD@PUCC.BITNET "BLAM! BLAM!, Uucp: {ihnp4|allegra}!psuvax1!PUCC.BITNET!RLWALD Avon calling." Arpa: RLWALD@PUCC.Princeton.Edu "They're unfriendly,which is fortunate,really. They'd be difficult to like"-Avon "Its Sulphuric Acid, you're soaking in it" -Dark Madge
cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (03/31/87)
[Note the cross postings were removed, lets *not* start a small war ok?] In article 3139, ed wrote : > While far from a lecture or a performance, Todd Rundgren's "Master's Demo" > at the West Coast Computer Faire was interesting nonetheless. > > The theme of the presentation was "Crackpot Software" or unconventional > approaches to music composition/performance using a computer. Todd > used a Macintosh and a new Mac II to demonstrate some really *NEAT* > software like "Studio Session Player". Rundgren thought this a "Crackpot" > piece of software because of the almost overdone graphics (it looks like > a casette player on the screen). This really was a neat demo/lecture/whathaveyou. I talked to the Studio Session people at the faire and found they have some really *sharp* programmers. They can load the samples into memory and mix and play them through the Mac's D/A converter in realtime, they are limited to six voices only because the D/A converter is only 8 bits. The samples are internally added and then truncated to 8 bits before shipping them out to the D/A. Thus if all six voices are playing you only get about 6 bits of information left after the addition and scaling operation but that is still ok for the human ear. (max error 1/64 or 1.6%) I talked to them about the Amiga a bit, and their programmer seemed to think with its four D/A converters and smart DMA channels he could probably get 12 voices. The only drawback is that the CPU is really involved so there are not many cycles left over for other tasks. > Todd seemed annoyed with the fact that AMIGA had blown him off completely. > He was expecting an AMIGA rep to show up with some software to demo. > While he did not think the AMIGA was a Crackpot machine, he suggested > that those who were involved with marketing the AMIGA may be so since > AMIGA was happy to have Todd's AMIGA serve as lampstand during the demo. > TODD NEVER EVEN BOOTED THE THING UP! I talked to Todd when he stopped by the F.A.U.G. Booth on saturday. He expressed his dissapointment that there were not more 'interesting' sound packages available for it. I told him about Pro-Midi studio from SoundScape which he said he would look at. We both agreed that DMCS for the Amiga was not very useful in it's present form. > I was SHOCKED by the quality of the "Studio Session Player" package > from BOGAS <<---(that's their name folks!). Considering the fact > that there was *NO* additional hardware required to get SAMPLED SOUNDS > on a Mac. Is this really true? I swear, it sounded better than the > AMIGA. Drum sounds too! Electric Guitar! WOW! Yup, the Mac does have a built in 8 bit D/A channel. And yes with clever programming you can get six sampled voices out of it. If that programmer at studio session comes through we should see what they can do with 4 times the hardware with a DMA assist to boot. Should be a small orchestra. Of course they will do it on the Mac II first, then the Amiga (oh well). > OH, Todd briefly played some sampled sounds on the Mac II! WOW! > Todd said he heard someone had completely downloaded a copy of > Peter Gabriel's "SO" album on to a Mac II hard disk. This same > someone was able to play it back through the Mac II's 16-Bit D/A's!! > -ed- The Mac II has 8 bit D/A's *not* 16 bit ones. As a matter of fact they are nearly identical to the Amiga's. Both have hardware DMA channels to feed them, both have filters at 7.12 Khz to filter off spurious harmonics. I believe the 3db point on the Mac filters may be at a slightly higher frequency than the Amiga's since some 'hiss' (quantitazation noise) comes through on some of their samples. All in all a very entertaining show. -- --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
csz@well.UUCP (04/01/87)
>Todd said he heard someone had completely downloaded a copy of >Peter Gabriel's "SO" album on to a Mac II hard disk. This same >someone was able to play it back through the Mac II's 16-Bit D/A's!! Horse puckey. The Mac II has >>8-bit<< sampling at 44 kHz. And to record a whole album at that rate, even with 8-bit resolution, would take about 100 megabytes. In mono. You can't get a hard disk that big for the Mac II yet.
ses@oliveb.UUCP (04/01/87)
>>Todd said he heard someone had completely downloaded a copy of >>Peter Gabriel's "SO" album on to a Mac II hard disk. This same >>someone was able to play it back through the Mac II's 16-Bit D/A's!! I believe Todd Rundgren said someone had downloaded one SONG to a Mac hard disk. This is a bit more reasonable than a whole album, even at 8 bit resolution. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Dean Brunette DISCLAIMER: I'm in it for myself.. Olivetti Advanced Technolgy Center _____ _____ __|__ _____ Cupertino, CA 95014 | | _____| | | |_____| |_____| |__ |_____ {ucbvax,etc.}!oliveb!olivej!ses =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
wtm@neoucom.UUCP (04/02/87)
Hi, Yes, the new Mac II seems like it has the capability to threaten what is now Amiga's unique market niche as a "media machine". The design of the A-1000 as a multi media device (not to mention multi tasking device) is what prompted me to get an Amiga 1-1/2 years ago. Based on the kinds of articles that are popping up in the popular magazines these days, it would appear that the world is cathing on to what we Amiga owners already know-- that multi media computing can be both fun and productive. Before I get upteen nasty emails, I guess I should temper (appropriate word, huh?) what I mean. The Mac II certainly is not an alternative to the Amiga, since the Mac II is in an entirely different price category. You can buy about four basic Amiga systems for the cost of a basic Mac II. What worries me is that the momentum of the Mac II as a technology leader might carry over into the more slug-ish normal Mac products that are more price competitors with the Amiga. The new A-2000 (or is it A-2500 as seen in the Amigaworld pictures?) is a nice step in the direction of staving of the Mac II. Actually the A-2000 is a more practical machine since it is stating out with a big price advantage (about 50% less than Mac II) and has a more popular device (IBM PeeCee) buss. I think both you and I'll cetainly agree that the PeeCee buss is nasty and outdated, but there are zillions of nifty things already available to plug in, ranging from hi-res graphics cards, 80386 coprocessors, and even 68K cards that can run (Xe | U | ? )nix. Stick that in your Nubus. True, the Mac II Nubus derives from VME buss, but people still have to revamp their cards to be able to Mac them. Nubus cards are also going to be expensive for some time to come, for the same reson that current A-1000 add-ons are expensive. In response to the original poster: The amiga sound capabilities are pretty impressive relative to all the other technology as of 1-1/2 years ago (especially in the price range), but the other guys are catching up and surpassing us. I've been using the Amiga to write music, and I'm definitely not satisfied with the quality of the 8-bit sound. It doesn't have enough subtlety to express really neat musical ideas. The Amiga sound is quite adequate for preview purposes to rough out a score with Deluxe Music, or whatever. Certiainly, the sounds are adequate for most adventure game software. I wrote to Electronic Arts, since there was a little survey card in the box with DMCS asking what sort of stuff we want to see. They were asking both hard- and soft- ware. I suggested that I'd like to see a nice waveform editor. Also, I put a bug in their ear that I'd like to see a quality 14 or 16 bit sampler that can hack 44.1 KHz sampling rate (for CD compatibility) or higher. I guess I could handle 12 bits in a pinch, as long as I wasn't using the Amiga as a solo instrument. I'd also be willing to put up with an option card that has FM- analog synthesis (like that used in Yammaha DX series keyboards). Speaking of Yammaha, I've been using the FB-01 synthesizer via a midi interface on my Amiga at home. The FB-01 has very nice sound quality. It supports up to 8 different voices, depending on how many instruments are selected, and the octave ranges allocated. The price is pretty reasonalbe: About $280 + $49-59 for a midi adapter for the Amiga's serial port. The FB-01 does not have internal amplification, but it can be patched into your stereo just as you would your Amiga. The FB-01 is also small, about the size of a textbook. --Bill Bill Mayhew Division of Basic Medical Sciences Northeastern Ohio Universities' College of Med. Rootstown, OH 44272 USA phone: 216-325-2511 (wtm@neoucom.UUCP ...!cbatt!neoucom!wtm)
elwell@osu-eddie.UUCP (04/04/87)
In article <135@dana.UUCP> rap@dana.UUCP (Rob Peck) writes: >In article <577@plx.UUCP>, ed@plx.UUCP (Ed Chaban) writes: >> >> While far from a lecture or a performance, Todd Rundgren's "Master's Demo" >> at the West Coast Computer Faire was interesting nonetheless. >> >> I was SHOCKED by the quality of the "Studio Session Player" package >> from BOGAS <<---(that's their name folks!). Considering the fact >> that there was *NO* additional hardware required to get SAMPLED SOUNDS >> on a Mac. Is this really true? I swear, it sounded better than the >> AMIGA. Drum sounds too! Electric Guitar! WOW! >> >On a lighter note, one comment that probably was missed by most people >was that ALL-BUT-ONE (and I don't recall which that was) of the demos >that he showed used EXTERNAL-MIDI for the playback. In other words, >only one of the demos used the Mac to synthesize sound on the fly. >This was stated at 12:10, just as I was getting up to leave and >revisit the dealer area. > >Just thought I'd pass on what I remember hearing. Yes the sounds >were very good, but... is it MIDI or is it M*C ?????????? > >(sigh) > >Rob Peck hplabs!dana!rap It's the Mac. My wife & I bought this software (and the MacNifty Digitizer, which will let you create even more instrument definitions). It's still only 8-bit, 22KHz sampling rate, but you have to hear it to believe it. Some of the classical instruments (flute, recorder, etc.) are a little fuzzy, but for only software, I'm not complaining... -=- "The greatest warriors are Clayton Elwell the ones who fight for peace." Elwell@Ohio-State.ARPA --Holly Near ...!cbosgd!osu-eddie!elwell