lachac@topaz.UUCP (03/26/87)
Do to an overwelming amount of requests to mail people Jtime, I have decided
to post it. The file is in ARC format, so its more compact than a shar file.
Again, I have not built this project or even taken part in any design, I just
found it on a local BBS. In other words I disclaim any responsibility if this
thing blows up your Amiga :-)
If any of you hardware types could do us "builders" the courtesy of checking
out this design and making sure we WON'T do any damage, I'm sure we'll all
appreciate it...
(Remember to chop my .signature file)
---------------------------------Cut Here---------------------------------------
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--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Isn't fun the best thing to have?"
lachac@topaz.rutgers.edudavidlo@madvax.UUCP (03/27/87)
Where can I find an ARC utility to extract this file ?
Thanks.
--
David Lo (415)939-2400 /\ o
Varian Instruments, 2700 Mitchell Drive, Walnut Creek, CA 94598 \/
{ptsfa,lll-crg,zehntel,dual,amd,fortune,ista,rtech,csi,normac}varian!davidlolachac@topaz.UUCP (03/27/87)
In article <520@madvax.UUCP> davidlo@madvax.UUCP (David Lo) writes: > > Where can I find an ARC utility to extract this file ? > > Thanks. I knew this would happen so I am prepared. ARC can be found on many paid services such as People's Link and Compu$erve. You can get a copy from any good Amiga BBS, Amiga User's group, or even Fish disk #40. ARC is "the" standard for the paid services, and almost all BBS's. It does an excellent file compression... -- "Truth is false and logic lost..." - Neil Peart (who at the time didn't realize he was talking about RU) lachac@topaz.rutgers.edu <--------OR--------> {seismo|ames}!rutgers!topaz!lachac
kim@amdahl.UUCP (03/29/87)
In article <10463@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU>, lachac@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (Gerard Lachac) writes: > > ARC is "the" standard for the paid services, and almost all BBS's. It does > an excellent file compression... I just finished unarcing the Jtime files using the ARC program for the Amiga (v0.22), and have noticed one problem. There are CR's at the end of each line in the .txt file. I can't seem to find a way of telling ARC to just dump out LF's for newlines. Anybody know if ARC somehow supports this, or did the Jtime poster write the documentation on a PClone/etc? Thanks, /kim -- UUCP: kim@amdahl.amdahl.com or: {sun,decwrl,hplabs,pyramid,ihnp4,seismo,oliveb,cbosgd}!amdahl!kim DDD: 408-746-8462 USPS: Amdahl Corp. M/S 249, 1250 E. Arques Av, Sunnyvale, CA 94086 CIS: 76535,25 [ Any thoughts or opinions which may or may not have been expressed ] [ herein are my own. They are not necessarily those of my employer. ]
rico@oscvax.UUCP (03/30/87)
I may be one of millions of people that say this but just in case everyone else decides that "a million people are going to say this so why should I" I'll say it. It seems that various experiments have shown that posting .arc'd files is a waste of resourses. Most of the sites already do their own compression of files in the fashion most suited to the kind of connection they have. So arc'ing your files doesn't save the net any transmission time, in fact files which are arc'd and then compressed tend to be larger than if the files were just compressed. Also, you get many people who are in this boat... In article <520@madvax.UUCP> davidlo@madvax.UUCP writes: > > Where can I find an ARC utility to extract this file ? > > Thanks. > Check the fish disk listings, I believe it was in one of the last batches, I downloaded my copy off of Compuserve but I don't recommend that if you can avoid it... ARC is *BIG*. So the morale of the story is "don't do me any favours" just take the bare binaries... uuencode them and then shar them. Let the news system do its own compression if/when it sees fit. Redundantly yours, -Rico -- [NSA food: terrorist, cryptography, DES, drugs, CIA, secret, decode] [CSIS food: supermailbox, tuna, fiberglass coffins, Mirabel, microfiche] [Cat food: Nine Lives, Cat Chow, Meow Mix, Crave]
lachac@topaz.UUCP (04/04/87)
In article <479@oscvax.UUCP> rico@oscvax.UUCP (Rico Mariani) writes: >It seems that various experiments have shown that posting .arc'd files is >a waste of resourses. Most of the sites already do their own compression >of files in the fashion most suited to the kind of connection they have. >So arc'ing your files doesn't save the net any transmission time, in fact >files which are arc'd and then compressed tend to be larger than if the >files were just compressed. There is a reason for this. UUENCODE does not compress, as a matter of fact, it increases the file size quite significantly, converting binary codes to ASCII so they can be mailed. >Check the fish disk listings, I believe it was in one of the last batches, >I downloaded my copy off of Compuserve but I don't recommend that if you >can avoid it... ARC is *BIG*. You can find it on Fish 40, but unfortunately that is Arc.16 and they are up to about Arc.23. Everyone should really have Arc. It is a standard in the IBM world for compressing multiple files, and has moved into the Amiga and ST worlds as well. The Arc.23 is supposed to have much better compression choice. >So the morale of the story is "don't do me any favours" just take the >bare binaries... uuencode them and then shar them. Let the news system >do its own compression if/when it sees fit. I was going to do this, but the Arc file of JTime has about 5 or 6 files in it, and I didn't feel like uploading each one, uudecoding all the binaries, and then sharring the thing. One upload of the Arc and I was done. I am sure the Arc posting was shorter then the equivalent shar posting would have been... [I feel so much better now, ahhhh.....] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- "Truth is false and logic lost..." - Neil Peart (who at the time didn't realize he was talking about RU) lachac@topaz.rutgers.edu <--------OR--------> {seismo|ames}!rutgers!topaz!lachac
farren@hoptoad.UUCP (04/04/87)
In article <479@oscvax.UUCP> rico@oscvax.UUCP (Rico Mariani) writes: > >It seems that various experiments have shown that posting .arc'd files is >a waste of resourses. Most of the sites already do their own compression >of files in the fashion most suited to the kind of connection they have. >So arc'ing your files doesn't save the net any transmission time, in fact >files which are arc'd and then compressed tend to be larger than if the >files were just compressed. Yes, but the main point, for me at least, isn't whether or not I'm losing efficiency in the Unix transmission, but, rather, in the transmission from my Amiga to/from the Unix system where the stuff is living. I'd rather not have to pay any more connect charges or phone bills than I have to; thus, I will continue to say "hurray for ARC". BTW, if an arc'd then compressed file is bigger than the original, and the bigger file is what is transmitted, then the software is broken. Any non-brain-damaged compression routine will not compress if the compression results in a larger file than the original... -- ---------------- "... if the church put in half the time on covetousness Mike Farren that it does on lust, this would be a better world ..." hoptoad!farren Garrison Keillor, "Lake Wobegon Days"
mwm@eris.UUCP (04/05/87)
>Yes, but the main point, for me at least, isn't whether or not I'm losing >efficiency in the Unix transmission, but, rather, in the transmission from >my Amiga to/from the Unix system where the stuff is living. I'd rather >not have to pay any more connect charges or phone bills than I have to; >thus, I will continue to say "hurray for ARC". In that case, try arc'ing it on the Unix end. Or tar it, compress the tar file, transmit that, and uncompress & detar it on the Amiga. Of course, if a saving yourself a little extra work is more important than saving gnu some money, then go ahead and do it your way. >BTW, if an arc'd then compressed file is bigger than the original, and >the bigger file is what is transmitted, then the software is broken. Any >non-brain-damaged compression routine will not compress if the compression >results in a larger file than the original... The nice thing about compress/uncompress is that they will work on the fly. I haven't looked at news compression, but the compressed notesfile transmission I did shipped the output from compress straight down the phone line, and didn't look at the output file. Of course, I assumed that people were going to behave reasonably, and not try running their own compression/encoding schemes, so that not saving the compressed data seemed like a good idea. >You can find it on Fish 40, but unfortunately that is Arc.16 and they are >up to about Arc.23. Everyone should really have Arc. Considering that Arc is shareware, this sounds like a plug to me. >I was going to do this, but the Arc file of JTime has about 5 or 6 files >in it, and I didn't feel like uploading each one, uudecoding all the >binaries, and then sharring the thing. One upload of the Arc and I was >done. Arc runs on Unix, so you could've uploaded the arced file, de'arced it, uuencoded & shared the results. Better yet, there's a shar facility on Fish disk 28 and a uuencode facility on Fish disk 53, so you could uuencode and shar it on your amiga, and then upload that. >I am sure the Arc posting was shorter then the equivalent shar posting would >have been... Yeah, the posting was. But what was shipped over the phone lines probably _wasn't_. Being out of disk space can be dealt with in a number of ways that don't involve immediate out-of-pocket expenses, whereas the ABUSENET phone costs are _always_ oop expenses. The bean counters probably won't even notice the first, but will certainly notice the second. As a concrete example, nobody has dropped of the net because netnews eats to much space. Several backbones have dropped signifcant portions of the news because of rising phone bills. <mike -- Here's a song about absolutely nothing. Mike Meyer It's not about me, not about anyone else, ucbvax!mwm Not about love, not about being young. mwm@berkeley.edu Not about anything else, either. mwm@ucbjade.BITNET
hatcher@INGRES.BERKELEY.EDU.UUCP (04/05/87)
In article <3047@jade.BERKELEY.EDU> mwm@eris.BERKELEY.EDU (Mike (My watch has windows) Meyer) writes: [ ...much discussion of sending arc versus shar'ed uuencoded files... ] I agree with most of Mike's points, but one thing is being overlooked (although Mike probably agrees): "arc" is not standard nor even very widely available on Unix systems, from the point of view of what percentage of them currently have it, while "shar" and "uuencode" are standard enough to be on lots of systems. Yes, I know this is not universally true, but as an easy example, none of the 4 Unix systems I use regularly have "arc", but they all have shar/uuencode (naturally I'll put/port arc to them as soon as I have some free time, but meanwhile...) This issue is regularly raised in various groups, and the usual concensus is to use standard utilities. There's never total agreement, so the argument always starts up again at some point (as it has here). >.... As a concrete example, nobody has dropped of the >net because netnews eats to much space. Several backbones have dropped >signifcant portions of the news because of rising phone bills. This is downright silly...if a site drops news, how likely are you to hear about it? I personally know of a site that *did* drop off the net some years ago precisely because "netnews eats too much space". They recently reconnected via uucp and are receiving 4 news groups rather reluctantly (a management versus employees battle). They flatly refuse to accept comp.sys.amiga due to volume. My general impression is that this is more common than one might think. Don't make baseless assumptions. Doug
hah@omepd.UUCP (04/07/87)
[] About two months ago an ARC program was posted from BSD, named BSD.ARC posted to net.sources. I compiled this on our VAX and it works just fine. Hans
fdi@arnav.UUCP (04/08/87)
Just one, hopefully, simple question. I downloaded the info on Jtime and de-arced it but I couldn't figure out what to use to look at the graphics file. I tried several of the display programs and even DPaint but to no avail. If I have just totally missed something obvious I apologize but if somebody could tell me how to look at them I'd appreciate it. Gary Albert Flight Dynamics, Inc. arnav!fdi
fnf@mcdsun.UUCP (Fred Fish) (04/08/87)
In article <1957@hoptoad.uucp> farren@hoptoad.UUCP (Mike Farren) writes: >Yes, but the main point, for me at least, isn't whether or not I'm losing >efficiency in the Unix transmission, but, rather, in the transmission from >my Amiga to/from the Unix system where the stuff is living. I'd rather >not have to pay any more connect charges or phone bills than I have to; >thus, I will continue to say "hurray for ARC". Guess I'll throw my 2 cents worth in here to. Shar, uuencode/uudecode, and compress are all available for running native mode on the Amiga. What's wrong with uuencoding the binaries, shar'ing up all the text files and uuencoded binaries (gee, just like on a Unix system :-), reducing the size of the shar file with compress, and then transmitting that file to the Unix system. At the Unix end, decompress to recover the original shar file and then just post it. I suspect the size of the compressed shar file and the size of an ARC file with the same material would be nearly the same. I regularly use compressed bru archives (tar would also work if available on the Amiga) to transmit stuff back and forth and usually achieve about 60-80% compression. -Fred -- = Drug tests; just say *NO*! (Moto just announced new drug testing program) = = Fred Fish Motorola Computer Division, 3013 S 52nd St, Tempe, Az 85282 USA = = seismo!noao!mcdsun!fnf (602) 438-5976 =
spencer@eris.UUCP (04/11/87)
In article <285@mcdsun.UUCP> fnf@mcdsun.UUCP (Fred Fish) writes: >Guess I'll throw my 2 cents worth in here to. Shar, uuencode/uudecode, and >compress are all available for running native mode on the Amiga. What's >wrong with uuencoding the binaries, shar'ing up all the text files and >uuencoded binaries (gee, just like on a Unix system :-), reducing the >size of the shar file with compress, and then transmitting that file >to the Unix system. At the Unix end, decompress to recover the original >shar file and then just post it. I suspect the size of the compressed >shar file and the size of an ARC file with the same material would be >nearly the same. >-Fred Actually this brings up an interesting question. That of compression for transmission. I have the Columbia Kermit manual here and there is a des- cription of the full spec on Kermit allows for compression on one end and expansion on the other. This, of course, requires that both Kermits talk compression. It is just one of the options that Kermit automatically sets up when doing the transfer (sender says "use these options", receiver says "of those I don't know 'these' options", and the transfer carries on using the options both could agree on). I haven't read the Ckermit manuals for Unix and the Amiga in a while, but do they include compression, and is compressing the file before transmitting sort of redundant and repeatitive? I agree that everyone should have uuencode and shar on their Amiga (and remember to increase your stack before using shar), but I wonder if the time spent compressing the file for transmission is sort of a waste of time. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Randy Spencer P.O. Box 4542 Berkeley CA 94704 (415)284-4740 I N F I N I T Y BBS: (415)283-5469 Now working for |||||||||||::::... . . BUD-LINX But in no way |||||||||||||||::::.. .. . Officially representing ||||||||||||:::::... .. ....ucbvax!mica!spencer s o f t w a r e spencer@mica.berkeley.edu -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-