watt@usafa.UUCP (03/28/87)
I heard a rumor at a recent users group meeting that Borland may release Turbo Pascal for the Amiga in the near future. Later in the same week I heard the same rumor from another source 70 miles away. Has anybody else heard anything? Glenn Watt
mikeb@cbmvax.UUCP (04/01/87)
In article <110@usafa.UUCP> watt@usafa.UUCP (Capt Glenn Watt) writes: >I heard a rumor at a recent users group meeting that Borland may >release Turbo Pascal for the Amiga in the near future. Later in >the same week I heard the same rumor from another source 70 miles >away. Has anybody else heard anything? > >Glenn Watt This is not a rumor. In January Philippe Kahn stated publicly that Borland was implementing Turbo Pascal on the Amiga. No further information has been released as far as I know. There has not been a target release date set yet. Since they just got started in December I would not expect an announcement for several more months. Mike Brenner Commodore
feb@cblpe.UUCP (04/02/87)
In article <1614@cbmvax.cbmvax.cbm.UUCP> mikeb@cbmvax.UUCP (Mike Brenner SW) writes: >In article <110@usafa.UUCP> watt@usafa.UUCP (Capt Glenn Watt) writes: >>I heard a rumor at a recent users group meeting that Borland may >>release Turbo Pascal for the Amiga in the near future. Later in >>Glenn Watt > >This is not a rumor. In January Philippe Kahn stated publicly that Borland >was implementing Turbo Pascal on the Amiga. No further information has been >released as far as I know. >Mike Brenner >Commodore If anyone out there can get the attention of Phillippe Kahn, could they suggest he skip over Turbo Pascal for the Amiga and go straight to Turbo C? I mean, why not! The Amiga is a machine that seems to be built for C (well, except for that BCPL garbage.) Why muck up the works by throwing in interface problems by having pascal functions calling C library functions? I hate to bring up an example from macland, but it clearly illustrates my point on mixing languages: the macintosh toolbox rom uses pascal interfaces, making it easy to use from pascal. Then apple went and wrote the operating system calls (open file, i/o control etc.) using arguments passed in registers (ala assembler or C) instead of the stack (ala pascal). Thus every compiler has to have built in to its libraries translation routines to access one or the other set of funcitons. This is STUPID!!!! (except, of course, for Apple's own MacPascal interpreter, which just left out the Pascal to C access routines, making it utterly useless.) I am under the (possibly wrong!) impression that the Amiga's intuition, exec, and dos functions have been written with C interfaces. So if Borland wants to enter the Amiga market, why not with a C compiler? Is he afraid there are too many C compilers already out there? I am under the impression that the various versions of Manx and Lattice that are out are a) expensive and b) bug ridden. There must be room in the market for an inexpensive (ala other Borland products) C compiler that works correctly. -- Franco Barber AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus, Ohio ..!cbatt!cbplf!cblpe!feb (614) 860-7803
dillon@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU.UUCP (04/03/87)
>I am under the (possibly wrong!) impression that the Amiga's intuition, >exec, and dos functions have been written with C interfaces. So if >Borland wants to enter the Amiga market, why not with a C compiler? >Is he afraid there are too many C compilers already out there? >I am under the impression that the various versions of Manx and Lattice >that are out are a) expensive and b) bug ridden. There must be >room in the market for an inexpensive (ala other Borland products) >C compiler that works correctly. All of the Amiga's libraries were designed for easy access by assembly language. That is, all parameters are passed in registers rather than on the stack. The libraries are also designed, however, to make C interfacing easy in that a simple MOVEM.L from the stack to a set of registers usually suffices to take C pushed arguments on the stacks and place them in registers before making the library call. This is handled by the link time libraries. E.G. you make a call to, say, FindTask(name), and the function FindTask() moves the pushed pointer into the proper register, loads A6 with the library vector base, and makes an A6 relative call to the proper library vector table entry. -Matt
schoet@ernie.Berkeley.EDU.UUCP (04/06/87)
>>I am under the (possibly wrong!) impression that the Amiga's intuition, >>exec, and dos functions have been written with C interfaces. > > All of the Amiga's libraries were designed for easy access by >assembly language. That is, all parameters are passed in registers >rather than on the stack. The libraries are also designed, however, to > ... take C arguments on the stacks and place them in registers > before making the library call. > -Matt And then Intuition takes the values out of the registers and pushes them back on the stack. ho hum. Steve
jmpiazza@sunybcs.UUCP (04/06/87)
In article <482@cblpe.UUCP> feb@cblpe.UUCP (55216-Franco Barber) writes: >In article <1614@cbmvax.cbmvax.cbm.UUCP> mikeb@cbmvax.UUCP (Mike Brenner SW) writes: >If anyone out there can get the attention of Phillippe Kahn, could they >suggest he skip over Turbo Pascal for the Amiga and go straight to >Turbo C? > >I mean, why not! ... How about that some people would like to use Pascal on the Amiga? > ... using arguments passed in registers (ala assembler or C) instead of the >stack (ala pascal). You seem (to me) to be mixing up the purpose of a high level language (its ability to effectively express algorithms) and its implementation. This path leads inevitably to the Dark Side of the Force. :-) Flip side, joe piazza --- Cogito ergo equus sum. CS Dept. SUNY at Buffalo 14260 UU: ...{rocksvax|decvax}!sunybcs!jmpiazza CS: jmpiazza@buffalo-cs BI: jmpiazza@sunybcs
bakken@tahoma.UUCP (04/11/87)
I called Borland's customer service to ask when Turbo C for the IBM would ship (May at best). I also asked them if they were planning to offer Turbo Pascal on the Amiga and the lady said she hadn't heard anything about that. If Mr. Kahn has such plans he apparently hasn't told many people. Dave Bakken Boeing Commercial Airplane Company Flight Simulation Lab uw-beaver!ssc-vax!shuksan!tahoma!bakken (206) 237-5890 My views are my own, not my employer's. Don't let them deter you from buying the 747 you've been saving hard for.
ma183say@sdcc3.UUCP (04/19/87)
I remember reading somewhere that Commodore somehow p o'd Borland and even though they had already run a full page ad (T-Pascal) in AmigaWorld, they decided not to produce it. I called them a year or so ago about T-Pascal, they said that they were working on it and it would be out that summer. That was apparently before the p o. So what did I do? I bought the successor to Pascal, Modula-2, and won't go back to Pascal (yuk, how primitive). If you are not comfortable with or cannot afford C, I highly recommend Modula-2 from TDI. The transition from Pascal to M2 is simple, and you'll quickly realize the improvements. The latest version even has an error-editor similar to T-Pascal (places the cursor at the error location, identifies the error). Also, execution time is supposedly faster then either of the two latest versions of C; I'd be glad to test that claim... You will still have to learn C if you wish to write any serious code for the Amiga as all of the examples are written in C (->RKM), barring the ones that come with M2. John 7OHN (yeah, it's not Lee, obviously)
upl@puff.WISC.EDU (Future Unix Gurus) (04/19/87)
In article <3858@sdcc3.ucsd.EDU> ma183say@sdcc3.ucsd.edu.UUCP (Lee Fountain) writes: > > I remember reading somewhere that Commodore somehow p o'd Borland > and even though they had already run a full page ad (T-Pascal) in AmigaWorld, > they decided not to produce it. I called them a year or so ago > about T-Pascal, they said that they were working on it and it > would be out that summer. That was apparently before the p o. > > So what did I do? I bought the successor to Pascal, Modula-2, and > won't go back to Pascal (yuk, how primitive). Me too, same story, same result! (BOY am I glad Borland f$%#!ed up on the Pascal. Otherwise I probobly never would have learned M2! > > If you are not comfortable with or cannot afford C, I highly > recommend Modula-2 from TDI. The transition from Pascal to M2 is > simple, and you'll quickly realize the improvements. The latest > version even has an error-editor similar to T-Pascal (places the > cursor at the error location, identifies the error). Also, > execution time is supposedly faster then either of the two latest > versions of C; I'd be glad to test that claim... I also recommend it, but with reservations. The new editor screws up alot- its still really buggy. Often it will get into a state where instead of showing me my errors, it puts a line and a half of spaces at the top of my file (wierd). Worse, if I edit a file very much, I will find that it will sometimes lock on me when it hits an error pointer. Anoying. Would be a crtical problem if I didn't have the ASDG recoverable ramdisk. Third problem I got my updates OK, but my new manual is still backordered. I found ALOT of new routines and features that the 5 page release sheet that came with my update didn't mention, wonder what else I'm missing.... I still recommend it to anybody who, like me, knows and despises C ! > > You will still have to learn C if you wish to write any serious > code for the Amiga as all of the examples are written in C (->RKM), > barring the ones that come with M2. Not true. They offer a full demo disk now that has all the RKM demos re-written in MODULA2, as well as a number of neat small applications programs. At worse, you will only have to learn to read C, not write it anyway. Believe me theres a BIG difference between the two! > By the way, I'm interested in swapping modules with anyone else doing developent work on the Amiga in TDI M2. Drop me an email if you're interested. Jeff Kesselman uhura!captain@puff.cs.wisc.edu
ma183say@sdcc3.ucsd.EDU (Lee Fountain) (04/20/87)
In article <672@puff.WISC.EDU> upl@puff.WISC.EDU (Future Unix Gurus) writes: > (Regarding TDI Modula-2) >I also recommend it, but with reservations. The new editor screws up >alot- its still really buggy. Often it will get into a state where instead >of showing me my errors, it puts a line and a half of spaces at the top of >my file (wierd). Worse, if I edit a file very much, I will find that it will >sometimes lock on me when it hits an error pointer. Anoying. Would be a crtical >problem if I didn't have the ASDG recoverable ramdisk. >Third problem I got my updates OK, but my new manual is still backordered. >I found ALOT of new routines and features that the 5 page release sheet >that came with my update didn't mention, wonder what else I'm missing.... >I still recommend it to anybody who, like me, knows and despises C ! >> >> You will still have to learn C if you wish to write any serious >> code for the Amiga as all of the examples are written in C (->RKM), >> barring the ones that come with M2. >Not true. They offer a full demo disk now that has all the RKM demos >re-written in MODULA2, as well as a number of neat small applications >programs. At worse, you will only have to learn to read C, not write >it anyway. Believe me theres a BIG difference between the two! >> >Jeff Kesselman >uhura!captain@puff.cs.wisc.edu The current errors in the editors should be fixed and ready for delivery in about six weeks, as should be the new manual. Regarding the statement that the EXAMPLE disk has all of the RKM examples, well, that is simply an incorrect fact. I have both of the example disks and they do not have anywhere *NEAR* all of the examples ported over, not even close. Furthermore, does anyone expect all of those C programmers out there to write their examples in M2 as well as C? F_ck no! It would be hard enough getting them to write code compatible with Manx and Lettuce.... As I stated before, you'll still have to learn C well enough to port (not just read; have a thorough understanding of what is going on) C to M2 before you can do any serious dev work. (You don't have to *program* in C, mind you). "You'll never be able to get away from C if you want to code on the Amiga. Learn it, live it, but you don't have to love it or use it." John 7OHN
upl@puff.WISC.EDU (Future Unix Gurus) (04/21/87)
In article <3864@sdcc3.ucsd.EDU-> ma183say@sdcc3.ucsd.edu.UUCP (Lee Fountain) writes: ->In article <672@puff.WISC.EDU> upl@puff.WISC.EDU (Future Unix Gurus) writes: ->> (Regarding TDI Modula-2) -> -> -> The current errors in the editors should be fixed and ready for -> delivery in about six weeks, as should be the new manual. Great! -> -> Regarding the statement that the EXAMPLE disk has all of the RKM -> examples, well, that is simply an incorrect fact. I have both of -> the example disks and they do not have anywhere *NEAR* all of the -> examples ported over, not even close. I have only taken a look at those examples that I needed, I was quoting from the release sheets. If this is not the case, I (and the adverts)stand corrected. ->Furthermore, does anyone -> expect all of those C programmers out there to write their -> examples in M2 as well as C? F_ck no! It would be hard enough -> getting them to write code compatible with Manx and Lettuce.... -> -> As I stated before, you'll still have to learn C well enough to -> port (not just read; have a thorough understanding of what is -> going on) -> C to M2 before you can do any serious dev work. (You don't -> have to *program* in C, mind you). Quibbling. Read=Understand. You can't say you read english unless you understand it, can you? -> -> "You'll never be able to get away from C if you want to code on -> the Amiga. Learn it, live it, but you don't have to love it or -> use it." -> I'd rather not live it, thank you. Yes, you will have to learn to understand it, for the moment anyway. When I asked the net about alternatives to C on the Amiga a year or so ago, I got a suprising number of responses from people using TDI Modula2. If we can get organizedf and active, I suspect we can build up a good sized m2 Amiga PD library too. We're a little behind, but our language is easier to program in. ( BIG :) , don't flame at me. Is joke, okay?) Jeff Kesselman uhura!captain@puff.cs.wisc.edu