grwalter@watmath.UUCP (04/11/87)
In article <1524@zeus.TEK.COM> erikj@tekla.tek.com.tek.com (Erik Johannes) writes: >I am wondering if anybody has any information about the Insider One Meg >Memory expansion board with built in clock. It plugs into the 68000 socket and >the 68000 plugs into it. I don't have the insider myself, but a friend does. He is happy with it, and in the two weeks that he's had it he hasn't had any problems. It will auto config under 1.2, and comes with an ADDMEM program so it can be used under 1.1. It is fast RAM, and you can select (via dip switches) where it should go. It comes with a real time clock. fred
page@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) (04/20/87)
grwalter@watmath.UUCP (Fred Walter) wrote in article <6838@watmath.UUCP>: >will auto config under 1.2 [...] and you can select (via dip switches) >where it should go. The whole point of autoconfig is that you don't need DIP switches. Does the Insider really autoconfig? If so, what are the switches for? ..Bob -- Bob Page, U of Lowell CS Dept. page@ulowell.{uucp,edu,csnet}
grwalter@orchid.UUCP (04/21/87)
In article <1203@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu> page@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) writes: >The whole point of autoconfig is that you don't need DIP switches. i went back to my friend, and he says that the dip switches are there so that if you get a memory board that plugs in the side that expects to be in a certain location, you can 'move' the insider ram to another non-conflicting location using the dip switches. i didn't know that autoconfig meant that the memory board was supposed to dectect another board at the same memory location and relocate itself if necesssary to avoid conflicts. i thought autoconfig meant that the memory board would tell the amiga at boot up time how much ram is on the board, and where it is found. i haven't read the manual for the insider, i have just asked some questions of the guy who owns it. if having dip switches means that the board doesn't autoconfig, then both he and i don't know what is meant by autoconfig. fred
bryce@COGSCI.BERKELEY.EDU.UUCP (04/22/87)
In article <6838@watmath.UUCP> grwalter@watmath.UUCP (Fred Walter) writes: >In article <1524@zeus.TEK.COM> erikj@tekla.tek.com.tek.com (Erik Johannes) writes: >>I am wondering if anybody has any information about the Insider One Meg >>Memory expansion board with built in clock. It plugs into the 68000 socket and >>the 68000 plugs into it. > >I don't have the insider myself, but a friend does. He is happy with it, >and in the two weeks that he's had it he hasn't had any problems. > The insider does not have buffers on the data bus, it just runs the lines out to the chips. Out of three Amigas tested two worked with the insider installed, the other would crash. MORE significantly NONE of the three Amigas would work with the insider AND another expansion product on the side. A different inside memory board worked properly in all three cases. "Not recomended"
eric@hector.UUCP (04/23/87)
The Insider does *not* autoconfig and most products that sit inside the Amiga do not.
The boards reside in the $c00000 address space which is tested in a special way
when the Amiga powers up. All the Kickstart does is test memory starting at $c00000
every 64K or so by writing incrementally to those locations - if it gets a bus error
it knows that there's no ram there, otherwise it adds it to the memory free pool.
I really resent those manafacturers who claim their product "auto-configs" when they
reside in this location - they didn't do all the hard work and debugging like those
who spent the time to get their products to really auto-config. Take a look at the
Insider - not autoconfig PALs on there...
Eric
ARPA: Lavitsky@RED.RUTGERS.EDU
UUCP: ...{wherever!}ulysses!eric
...{wherever!}caip!topaz!eric
SNAIL: 34 Maplehurst La., Piscataway, NJ 08854page@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) (04/24/87)
grwalter@orchid.UUCP (Fred Walter) wrote in article <7104@orchid.UUCP>: >if having dip switches means that the board doesn't >autoconfig, then both he and i don't know what is meant by autoconfig. If you have an INSIDER and an PAL (for example), the PAL already has 1MB starting at "ranger" memory, 0xC00000. The Amiga sees it on boot, as Eric has described. You HAVE to play with DIP switches to get the INSIDER someplace else. The INSIDER does NOT NOT NOT autoconfig. To do autoconfig, you have to initially have the board on 0xE80000, and have a PAL that will latch at a different address - wherever the _Amiga_ tells it to locate to. The INSIDER does not do this ... the Amiga has _no_control_ over where the board gets placed. Note I am not saying the INSIDER is a bad product in any way. I am simply saying it does NOT autoconfig, and the statement in the ad that says the board supports the autoconfig spec is a lie. ..Bob -- Bob Page, U of Lowell CS Dept. page@ulowell.{uucp,edu,csnet}
jmpiazza@sunybcs.UUCP (Joseph M. Piazza) (04/25/87)
In article <1524@zeus.TEK.COM> you write: >I am wondering if anybody has any information about the Insider One Meg >Memory expansion board with built in clock. It plugs into the 68000 socket and >the 68000 plugs into it. >... The ad for the product says the following: >... >o ADDMEM program included Yes, but only needed for AmigaDOS 1.1. 1.2 auto configs (or is it autorecog?). >o Exhaustive Memory test included Unfortunately it only runs under 1.1. This is the only feature I was disappointed with. Everything else I take their word for it. I leave testing to hardware technoids. >List price : $349.95 I got mine from a local shop for $299(!) plus sales tax (NY 8%) which made it $323. >I am curious about what kind of experiences people have had with this product >and Michigan Software. The price and features seem very good. The price assumes you install it yourself. It is fairly simple. If *I* can do it, most others should too. The instructions are clear and easy to follow, though not exhaustive. They labeled crucial steps with WARNINGs and NOTEs, and pointed out other steps that required patience. There's three major steps: 1. Disassembling your Amiga. Lots of screws. The instructions also list how many screws for each step (nice). You need to remove the top cover; the RF shield (accounts for most of the screws); and the floppy drive (to get clear access to the 68000). My worst problem was getting a tool behind the 68000 to pry it out of its socket since it was blocked by the rear of the case (front end is clear once you remove the drive). tend to get "bow legged" so you must bend each row against a hard flat surface. Now put it in its new socket on the Insider board. You then insert an extender socket in the original 68000 socket (so the Insider board will clear cables etc. on the mother board). 3. Make three connections with clips -- one connects under the Amiga's daughter board (256K RAM). This is a bit tricky; you have to clip to the 4th pin down. Dangerous only to you patience The next connects to a easily accessible thingie (ferrite bead). The last makes an extra ground connection to from a screw on the motherboard to a capacitor on the daughter board. There is a section in the instructions for dealers and those who really know what they're doing which I didn't read untill after I made the installation so I wouldn't get any bright ideas, (ok, maybe I peeked), that deals with soldering the connections and making a tool out of a cheap screwdriver to remove the 68000 with out removing the floppy (recommended for dealers who would make many installations). 4. Test the sucker. If there's a problem it's probably just a loose con- nection and now's the time find it. On my first try it didn't work. I went over all the connections and tried again. It worked! So, now you put the whole mess back together. There seemed to be fewer parts and they somehow seemed to fit better when putting it together. Great! 1.5 Meg! For four days ... then it wouldn't get past the green screen during Kiskstart. "OK," I says, "I'll check them there connections." So I opened the sucker up and fiddled with all connections. No dice. In fact, it didn't even flash its on/off light when powering up. "Probably fried something," said the guy at the shop after a few fiddles yielded nothing. So he then he put it back to its original configuration. It worked! Now he rein- stalled the board and all the connections (this time with the daughter board off making it much easier). It worked! It seems that I didn't quite put the board securely in the 68000 socket and let the cables lying under the board to put it a a slight angle. It's been fine for the past two weeks. MORAL: make sure there's a hardware guru can crawl to when you f*ck up. For me, buying it from my shop was essential since they would be the ones I'd fall back to. No charge. Thanks Paul. SUMMARY: the price, full speed, and autoconfig/recog, hardware support, and the clock (hallelujah!) makes the Insider real nice pick-me-up. Now, if only it can only meet Perry's standards :-) Flip side, joe piazza --- Cogito ergo equus sum. CS Dept. SUNY at Buffalo 14260 (716) 636-3191, 3180 UU: ...{rocksvax|decvax}!sunybcs!jmpiazza CS: jmpiazza@buffalo-cs BI: jmpiazza@sunybcs GE: jmpiazza
grr@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP (George Robbins) (04/25/87)
In article <1203@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu> page@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) writes: >grwalter@watmath.UUCP (Fred Walter) wrote in article <6838@watmath.UUCP>: >>will auto config under 1.2 [...] and you can select (via dip switches) >>where it should go. > >The whole point of autoconfig is that you don't need DIP switches. > >Does the Insider really autoconfig? If so, what are the switches for? The board takes advantage of the automatic memory recognition/ configuration at C00000 to D80000 that was implemented in the Kickstart 1.2 release. I would guess they put the switches there to allow some other options or use in conjunction with some other product that uses the C0 address range. Of course you could buy two and stack them, *BUT* since they are not buffered this would make many an Amiga *very* flakey... -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {ihnp4|seismo|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: cbmvax!grr@seismo.css.GOV Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
grr@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP (George Robbins) (04/25/87)
In article <2439@ulysses.homer.nj.att.com> eric@hector (Eric Lavitsky) writes: > > I really resent those manafacturers who claim their product "auto-configs" > when they reside in this location - they didn't do all the hard work and > debugging like those who spent the time to get their products to really > auto-config. Take a look at the Insider - not autoconfig PALs on there... It is equally tiresome to hear certain nameless vendors refer to their products as "zorro compatible" when only their top-of-the line expansion product is really complient. The ideal A1000 *internal* expansion device would replace the current kickstart tower with the 1.2 Kickstart ROM, 1 MB of RAM and an A500/A2000 compatible real-time clock. Given a careful design, this would add *no* additional loading to the expansion bus signals and would not consume very much more power. Commodore has already licensed the ROM contents and would probably be willing to sell the actuall A500 ROM chips, either as service parts or in volume... Anybody interested in doing it "right"? -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {ihnp4|seismo|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: cbmvax!grr@seismo.css.GOV Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
grr@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP (George Robbins) (04/26/87)
In article <3141@sunybcs.UUCP> jmpiazza@gort.UUCP (Joseph M. Piazza) writes: > You then insert >an extender socket in the original 68000 socket (so the Insider board will >clear cables etc. on the mother board). Friendly hint from the "land of towers": Plugging adapters/extension sockets into cheap IC sockets tends to permanantly distort the contacts. Be very careful to plug in your thingie once, firmly. If you have to plug and unplug it several (one?) time, you may have difficulty getting the orignal 68000 chip to make reliable contact on all 64 pins. Replacing 64-pin sockets is not much fun, even with a lab type power solder sucker... -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {ihnp4|seismo|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: cbmvax!grr@seismo.css.GOV Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
JIM_S_GROENKE@cup.portal.com (05/04/87)
I have to disagree concerning the article posted stating that the Insider would not accept an additional memory expansion device on the side of the Amiga. I own both and Insider and the Microbotics Starboard2 and BOTH co- exist in perfect Harmony. I know of SEVERAL other individuals who own the Insider, and they too are satisfied with the prodct. -=VERY Recommended=- o