mjp@spice.cs.cmu.edu.UUCP (06/11/87)
Keywords:
Here is a fantastic way to give the A500 & A2000 a good sendoff, and
it won't cost Commodore megabucks worth of advertising either...
Negotiate with Electronic Arts and give away a free copy of Dpaint I
with each machine. Dpaint I is obsolete as a commercial product, but
it is a decent application in its own right and is miles ahead of what
Atari is giving away with the ST (NeoChrome).
Accompanying Dpaint I, Electronic Arts can include mega-advertising
for Dpaint II, including some pictures created with the program. That
way Dpaint I becomes a "demo version" of Dpaint II, to entice
customers to pay for the upgrade.
I wish I could make a similar suggestion for a good text processing
program, so C-A could make an offer similar to the Macwrite/Macpaint
combo (which Apple discontinued) or the Neochrome/First Word combo
from Atari (not winners, from what I hear on the Atari group, but
better than nothing).
Another idea might be to get Fred to make a "Best of Fred Fish" disk
with the most useful programs from his collection (VT100, Matt's
Shell, etc) and make that a giveaway with the new machines. As long
as the authors of the software don't mind (and they shouldn't, since
C-A would be performing the exact same function as Fred) then C-A
could give new owners usable software for next to nothing.
--
Mike Portuesi / Carnegie-Mellon University Computer Science Department
ARPA: mjp@spice.cs.cmu.edu UUCP: {backbone-site}!spice.cs.cmu.edu!mjp
BITNET: rainwalker@drycas (a uVax-1 run by CMU Computer Club...tons o' fun)
Amiga hackers do it graphically, with lots of sound effects.
Amiga users do it with their gadgets and proportional sliders.
Aztec will do it, but only if you make it long.
Workbench users would do it, but they need .info first.
CLI users can't do it...they're stuck in their Shell.
Metacomco did it to us with AmigaDOS.
"Mac owners dream in black and white, Atari owners dream in color...
but Amigoids dream using Hold and Modify!"bryce@COGSCI.BERKELEY.EDU (Bryce Nesbitt) (06/12/87)
[ [ BTW: Can anyone give me the price of an Amiga 500, in [ German Marks. 512k, one drive & monitor. [ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >Here is a fantastic way to give the A500 & A2000 a good sendoff, and >it won't cost Commodore megabucks worth of advertising either... > >Negotiate with Electronic Arts and give away a free copy of Dpaint I >with each machine. One *major* problem. Dpaint I does not work with expansion ram, and thus will not work on the new machines. What a sendOFF! Dpaint I is not very multitasking compatible, either. >Another idea might be to get Fred to make a "Best of Fred Fish" disk >with the most useful programs from his collection (VT100, Matt's >Shell, etc) and make that a giveaway with the new machines. Now this is a idea I like. I have long wondered why computer companies don't take better advantage of free and freely redistributable software. Too much liabilty, I guess. Bruises to the corprate immage and all that. Work with PD authors, like Hayes Haugen, and see to it that "BlitzFont", or whatever is not needed on the new machines. Semi-related: I really wish Caryoln's MORE program had made it to the Workbench disk. That way we could count on a Workbench text-viewer always available. (Only one default tool for a project icon is a *PAIN* in this regard. more, less, reader view, textview, preview, docreader etc... any are acceptable) >then C-A >could give new owners usable software for next to nothing. But would SOFTWARE companies like this?! The market for a programmer's editor is kinda down_the_tubes if everyone has Matt's DME... ---------- Ack! (NAK,EOT,SOH) |\ /| . {o O} . bryce@cogsci.berkeley.EDU -or- ucbvax!cogsci!bryce ( " ) U Save countless lives, ban the BPTR!
ugmiker@sunybcs.UUCP (06/12/87)
( A line a day keeps the line eater away... I HOPE )
About the recent advertising ideas... They sound
great, I just hope someone at C-A who can do something with
these ideas is reading.
While reading USA TODAY one day at lunch I saw a
chart in thier "snaphots" area about what most businessmen
use thier computers for, and a surprisingly HIGH percent
of computer usage is for reading E-mail, and also, a good
amount of the executives use them for games also. So I
think the idea of showing the business comunity the games
on the Amiga is a good idea, of course not a conerstone of
an ad campaign(sp?), but it helps take the drudgery out of
boring computer commercials. Just think about how much of
IBM's new campaign is geered to pretty displays.
How about a Boss-figure walking through the office
checking on his employees, all of which are tired looking, grayed
out (through t.v. magic), working on IBM-type computers, but
looking like they are doing nothing because of boredom,
and when the boss asks them if they are done yet, they say no, but then
the boss comes across the final employee, in BRIGHT living color,and
joyful (of course), because he is using the NEW AMIGA the company
is trying out, when the boss asks him if he is done with his work yet,
he says sure, and clicks into a window, to show the boss he is done,
then the boss asks him if he finished some other job, and the employee
jumps to another window, and says, sure, this is done too, then maybe
the employee shows the boss whatelse he is working on, maybe another window,
and then by mistake he shows the boss the "game window" with some
fantastic "AMIGA ONLY" game. I think this shows the multitasking of the
AMIGA, plus the games as an extra to the raw computing power.
I HOPE someone at C-A is listening to these suggestions(not necessarily
mine) and is thinking about them, but they (C-A) still have to be willing to
$pend the money($$$$$$$) to run these ads, and make sure they are run at the
right times. Another small tidbit from USA TODAY, IBM budgeted some
30 MILLION (YES MILLION) DOLLARS for the new os/2 campaign. Now I dont
expect C-A to do that, but some cash spent on advertising might be cash well
spent.
--------FLAME ON---------
I still can't figure out how a company that has a GREAT product with
good technical support, a good base of P.D. software, a good base of
commercial software, and a loyal group of users, CANT SELL A COMPUTER !!!!!!!
???????YOU'VE SUCEEDED IN CONFUSING ME COMMODORE !!!!!!!!!!!!!
--------FLAME OFF---------
p.s. hey commodore, how about having a commercial script writing contest,
with the winner winning, who knows, maybe an upgrade, maybe a position
as head of advertising, but how about doing something to help this
computer we all know and love so dearly.
================================================================================
Mike Reilly //
---- ------ //
University of Buffalo Computer Science AMIGA//
---------- -- ------- -------- ------- \\//
csnet: ugmiker@buffalo.CSNET \/
uucp: ..!{nike|watmath,alegra,decvax}!sunybcs!ugmiker
BITNET: ugmiker@sunybcs.BITNET, v107ln7z@ubvmsa.bitnet
================================================================================kagle@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Jonathan C. Kagle) (06/12/87)
In article <8706120436.AA07456@cogsci.berkeley.edu> bryce@COGSCI.BERKELEY.EDU (Bryce Nesbitt) writes: >>Here is a fantastic way to give the A500 & A2000 a good sendoff, and >>it won't cost Commodore megabucks worth of advertising either... >> >>Negotiate with Electronic Arts and give away a free copy of Dpaint I >>with each machine. >>Another idea might be to get Fred to make a "Best of Fred Fish" disk >>with the most useful programs from his collection (VT100, Matt's >>Shell, etc) and make that a giveaway with the new machines. > >>then C-A >>could give new owners usable software for next to nothing. > >But would SOFTWARE companies like this?! The market for a programmer's editor >is kinda down_the_tubes if everyone has Matt's DME... > C-A did a similar sort of thing with the Electronic Arts/Polyscope disk. I think that they were given the rights to an early version of PolyScope (supposedly "an evolving project at EA") in return for the inclusion of a slide show. Why not give away a dozen or so disks with contributions from major manufacturers: a short adventure game from InfoCom, Dpaint II with many of the advanced options shadowed and unavailable, Activision's Music Studio with the save option disabled, Aegis Impact with no data import facility, etc. Also throw in a copy of TextCraft and Graphicraft and several IFF pictures. This would "whet the appetites of consumers" while providing introductory applications. Heck, if you don't like the software, at least you have some extra disks :). When Apple introduced the Macintosh, one of their first marketing plans was to sell the dealers and the salespeople on the Mac. They sold Macs for personal use at ridiculously low prices (for then). Salespeople bought tons of them and became both knowledgable and enthusiatic, as virtually all computer owners are about their machines. Perhaps C-A could do a similar thing- asking one salesperson or two at each dealer to become "an Amiga person"-giving them training, marketing tools, and a computer. Apple helped penetrate the education market by giving away ONE apple to each school (along with software). The teachers became familiar with the system and bought software for it. When the school board bought computers, the reply from teachers was "Well, we already know the Apple ][, and have bought soft- ware..." so they bought more Apples. When parents asked Junior what computer to get, he told them of all of the Apples at school ("Teachers know best!") and of all of the neat games he could copy and... We all agree that Commodore needs some creative marketing, but that should not be limited to the mass media. Having a one page ad for the Amiga in Newsweek or a 30-second spot during Cheers is expensive and, quite frankly, wouldn't attract that many customers no matter how glitzy. -Jonathan C. Kagle >---------- > Ack! (NAK,EOT,SOH) > |\ /| . > {o O} . bryce@cogsci.berkeley.EDU -or- ucbvax!cogsci!bryce > ( " ) > U Save countless lives, ban the BPTR!
holloway@drivax.UUCP (06/12/87)
In article <1209@spice.cs.cmu.edu> mjp@spice.cs.cmu.edu (Michael Portuesi) writes: >Negotiate with Electronic Arts and give away a free copy of Dpaint I >with each machine. Dpaint I is obsolete as a commercial product, but >it is a decent application in its own right and is miles ahead of what >Atari is giving away with the ST (NeoChrome). Atari does NOT give away NEOchrome. The only software that comes with the ST is BASIC (not Logo any more) and a couple of desk accessories. I wish they WOULD give away their new version of NEOchrome with the computer. NEOchrome is best at just those things DEGAS is lousy at (such as fine detail), so it makes it a perfect complement. >Neochrome/First Word combo >from Atari (not winners, from what I hear on the Atari group, but >better than nothing). They've stopped giving away 1st Word, too. Now you have to BUY it. >Another idea might be to get Fred to make a "Best of Fred Fish" disk >with the most useful programs from his collection (VT100, Matt's >Shell, etc) and make that a giveaway with the new machines. As long >as the authors of the software don't mind (and they shouldn't, since >C-A would be performing the exact same function as Fred) then C-A >could give new owners usable software for next to nothing. I think it'd be more appropriate for Commodore to point the new Amigan to his/her nearest User Group, and perhaps send a note to the people who run the group with the name and address, so they could send him/her some literature. There are too many good PD programs for the Amiga to fit the best onto just ONE disk. Or even five. - Bruce -- Bruce Holloway - Terminal Netnews Addict {seismo,sun}!amdahl!drivax!holloway Technoholic, and proud of it! >>> HI, KARL! <<<
holloway@drivax.UUCP (06/12/87)
In article <1209@spice.cs.cmu.edu> mjp@spice.cs.cmu.edu (Michael Portuesi) writes: >Another idea might be to get Fred to make a "Best of Fred Fish" disk >with the most useful programs from his collection (VT100, Matt's >Shell, etc) and make that a giveaway with the new machines. As long >as the authors of the software don't mind (and they shouldn't, since >C-A would be performing the exact same function as Fred) then C-A >could give new owners usable software for next to nothing. If C-A distributed them, that would make them at least partially responsible for the programs - guess who'd be called if there were any questions, problems, etc. Plus, they'd be adding value to the system with the software, so SOME sort of payment would be due the original authors, probably on a royalty basis. I still think that C-A should send along (at least) a list of user groups in the area. - Bruce -- Bruce Holloway - Terminal Netnews Addict {seismo,sun}!amdahl!drivax!holloway ALBATROSS, ATARI*TROS @ Plink ALBATROSS @ Delphi >>> HI, KARL! <<<
mjp@spice.cs.cmu.edu (Michael Portuesi) (06/13/87)
Keywords: bryce@COGSCI.BERKELEY.EDU (Bryce Nesbitt) writes: > >Negotiate with Electronic Arts and give away a free copy of Dpaint I > >with each machine. > > One *major* problem. Dpaint I does not work with expansion ram, and thus > will not work on the new machines. What a sendOFF! > Dpaint I is not very multitasking compatible, either. What a shame that even Electronic Arts can't see it's way clear to write Amiga software properly. Aegis Images version 1, perhaps? Graphicraft? > >then C-A > >could give new owners usable software for next to nothing. > > But would SOFTWARE companies like this?! The market for a programmer's > editor is kinda down_the_tubes if everyone has Matt's DME... I'm sure any programmer will be aware enough of the PA software available for the Amiga that he will know that DME exists and can be obtained for free. Granted, this argument doesn't apply to all software programs (spreadsheets and such, for example), but my claim is that if the commercial software companies were writing software the way it should be written, they wouldn't be worried about competition from the PA market. If any of you are familiar with the IBM PC editor Epsilon (a true Emacs clone, with a C-like extension language), you know how good a program it is. If it were available for the Amiga, I would buy it despite the fact I use MicroGnu, a free program. Of course, giving all Mac owners a copy of MacWrite did stifle the development of good WP software for the machine, so maybe I am wrong. But take a look at MindWrite, Write Now! and MS Word, or FullPaint and SuperPaint. All these are clearly superior to Apple's software. They had to be to sell. We're still waiting for an Amiga WP that has the features of a typical MS-DOS package combined with the interface and WYSIWYG capability of a typical Mac package. I think commercial software companies can go much farther with the Amiga than they have, and maybe giving away software might give them the "kick" they need, setting a minimum standard that must be met. -- Mike Portuesi / Carnegie-Mellon University Computer Science Department ARPA: mjp@spice.cs.cmu.edu UUCP: {backbone-site}!spice.cs.cmu.edu!mjp BITNET: rainwalker@drycas (a uVax-1 run by CMU Computer Club...tons o' fun)
mjb@pnet02.UUCP (06/15/87)
No, Mike, you've got it backwards. Irwin, Bruce, and Mark are at the water
coller when the boss walks in and enquires as to why there not working. There
reply is 1) the speadsheet is recalcing 2) the download is occuring 3) the
database is filtering. Boss walks away shaking head, passes cubical of
brilliant light. Boss enquires, why person is not at cooler, he replies that
he/she is busy doing ALL 3 things listed above. Boss smiles.....
UUCP: {ihnp4!crash, hplabs!hp-sdd!crash}!gryphon!pnet02!mjb
INET: mjb@pnet02.CTS.COMpage@ulowell.UUCP (06/15/87)
ugmiker@joey.UUCP (Michael Reilly) wrote: >( A line a day keeps the line eater away... I HOPE ) If any line eaters still exist, you can avoid them by starting your article against the left column -- e.g. don't use a TAB or SPACE as the first character of the article. Newline doesn't count; you'll still have to obey these rules if you put newlines at the front of your article. But the real point of this article... >About the recent advertising ideas... They sound great, I just hope >someone at C-A who can do something with these ideas is reading. During Comdex, Commodore (there is no more C-A as we knew it) showed some pretty neat looking graphics demos, flipping through each one really fast. Someone called them "blip-verts" they were moving so fast (no, nobody exploded at the show). Anyway, they reportedly looked like they would become TV commercials. Also, they kind of showed the multi-functionality and versatility of the machine, then ended with a graphic that said: Only with the Amiga. or something pithy like that. Reports I heard (I was not at Comdex) said the ads were quite good and pretty effective. Maybe Gary Samad could tell us more? ..Bob -- Bob Page, U of Lowell CS Dept. page@ulowell.{uucp,edu,csnet}
peter@sugar.UUCP (Peter DaSilva) (06/16/87)
> But would SOFTWARE companies like this?! The market for a programmer's editor > is kinda down_the_tubes if everyone has Matt's DME... Everyone already has MicroEmacs, which is a better programmer's editor than DME. DME is cute, but it doesn't even support the standard Amiga user interface! MicroEmacs at least lets you use the menus as command-key equivalences.
kent@xanth.UUCP (06/16/87)
In article <720@gryphon.CTS.COM> mjb@pnet02.CTS.COM (Martin Brown) writes: >No, Mike, you've got it backwards. Irwin, Bruce, and Mark are at the water >coller when the boss walks in and enquires as to why there not working. There >reply is 1) the speadsheet is recalcing 2) the download is occuring 3) the >database is filtering. Boss walks away shaking head, passes cubical of >brilliant light. Boss enquires, why person is not at cooler, he replies that >he/she is busy doing ALL 3 things listed above. Boss smiles..... > >UUCP: {ihnp4!crash, hplabs!hp-sdd!crash}!gryphon!pnet02!mjb >INET: mjb@pnet02.CTS.COM This sounds like a good beginning. Why not make Dagwood Bumstead be our hero? With the Amiga, he could have all the reports done on time, slip a little Marble Madness in on the side, and go from the butt of the boss's ire to the guy who made Mr. Dithers into the pussycat well all know and love, all with the help of his trusty Amiga 2000. At home, the kids would be busy with the 1000's, and Blondie would have a modem on her Amiga 2000 for gossiping with the neighbor ladies all over the world, use a filing program for her club records or recipies, and Daisy could be teaching the pups hunting skills with some educational software on her Amiga 500. (Bard's Tale, maybe? ;-) (Just finished Bard's Tale, can't wait for the Bard's Tale II port to come out! You ought to see my IFF lo-res dungeon maps!) Kent. -- Kent Paul Dolan, LCDR, NOAA, Retired; ODU MSCS grad student // Yet UUCP : kent@xanth.UUCP or ...{sun,harvard}!xanth!kent // Another CSNET : kent@odu.csnet ARPA : kent@xanth.cs.odu.edu \\ // Happy USPost: P.O. Box 1559, Norfolk, Virginia 23501-1559 \// Amigan! Voice : (804) 587-7760 -=][> Last one to Ceres is a rotten egg! -=][>
gary@eddie.MIT.EDU (Gary Samad) (06/22/87)
In article <1381@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu> page@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) writes: }During Comdex, Commodore (there is no more C-A as we knew it) showed some }pretty neat looking graphics demos, flipping through each one really fast. }Someone called them "blip-verts" they were moving so fast (no, nobody }exploded at the show). } }Anyway, they reportedly looked like they would become TV commercials. }Also, they kind of showed the multi-functionality and versatility of }the machine, then ended with a graphic that said: } } Only with the Amiga. } }or something pithy like that. Reports I heard (I was not at Comdex) }said the ads were quite good and pretty effective. } }Maybe Gary Samad could tell us more? } }..Bob You're absolutely right, Bob. We were shown two videos and given a pep talk by Rich McIntyre (the new VP of Sales and Marketing for the US) at the dealer presentation on Sunday, the day before COMDEX. The videos were about 30 seconds long and consisted of a blinding sequence of graphics excerpts from many of the popular Amiga programs. They did end with something like 'Only with the Amiga', but it wasn't quite that. Unfortunately, I've heard the phrase several times since COMDEX but STILL can't remember it! I think they should try changing that catch phrase to make it more memorable! And, they didn't specifically say that these videos would be used on TV but it was rumored. Gary
dillon@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) (06/24/87)
>Everyone already has MicroEmacs, which is a better programmer's editor than >DME. DME is cute, but it doesn't even support the standard Amiga user >interface! MicroEmacs at least lets you use the menus as command-key >equivalences. Well Excuuuuuuuusssseee me. -Matt
qix@ihlpa.ATT.COM (Puckett) (06/25/87)
In article <184@sugar.UUCP>, peter@sugar.UUCP (Peter DaSilva) writes: > > But would SOFTWARE companies like this?! The market for a programmer's editor > > is kinda down_the_tubes if everyone has Matt's DME... > > Everyone already has MicroEmacs, which is a better programmer's editor than > DME. DME is cute, but it doesn't even support the standard Amiga user > interface! MicroEmacs at least lets you use the menus as command-key > equivalences. I use DME exclusively now. Although it lacks many of the features of microEMACS, it is extensible (perhaps if I had a full-blown EMACS...). Now I have a "push" operation that moves a line of text up or down through the file. DME can be configured to fit my idiosyncracies, which makes it a lot more useful than any highly customized but closed editor. I'll take extensibility every time. Also, DME is fairly small. Anxiously awaiting the new version, -Ed Puckett.