jdm@pnet02.CTS.COM (John Mesiavech) (05/11/87)
(This is from Al, a friend of mine on the nets..
I Do disclaim him; only his opinions follow. Take it away, Al!)
Shareware tends to be used mostly by other hackers and well versed programmers
themselves. The market for packaged software is mostly used by those
who have a problem to solve or a need to satisfy. The organized retail
side of the market will prevail because the latter group needs the
reinforcement of flashy packaging and user support to feel confident.
This does not mean that PD Shareware is not quality. It in fact is for the
most part superb. However, a well designed box and manual with some sort
of support will promote a product as any commercialized item.
I feel confident in using some of the fabulous AMIGA Shareware.
Some routines could not come from any outher source. PD Hackers will
continue to support our system along with the commercial sector.
Both will coexist very well.
(Thank you Al)
Anyway, just to bring up a point that Al missed in his statements:
The Amiga PD is limited to those who have modems and to those who have access
to various PD suppliers (such as Fred Fish), and as such the distribution of
Amiga PD and Shareware is limited. More of a problem, in my own personal
opinion, are the instances of pirating software that continue to go on, for it
is the pirates that hurt the software market directly.
John
UUCP: {akgua!crash, hplabs!hp-sdd!crash}!gryphon!pnet02!jdm
INET: jdm@pnet02.CTS.COMcjp@vax135.UUCP (05/12/87)
In article <487@gryphon.CTS.COM> jdm@pnet02.CTS.COM (John Mesiavech) writes: >Amiga PD and Shareware is limited. More of a problem, in my own personal >opinion, are the instances of pirating software that continue to go on, for it >is the pirates that hurt the software market directly. But I read a while back (probably in this newsgroup) that the Amiga has the *lowest* pirate-to-purchase ratio in the PC business. So Pirating as a phenomenon (since it largely avoids the Amiga) would be the Amiga's friend (*not* that I approve, mind you). Amiga's Enemy has to be whoever-it-is at Commodore (or, potentially, I hope, someone recently departed from Commodore) who decided not to Advertise. No one (non-Amiga-owners) knows a damn thing about the Amiga and what it can do. Friends of mine are hungry for any information. But they never hear about the Amiga, so they think something must be wrong with it. A few demos go a long way. Deluxe Paint alone sold one friend on the Amiga, and others are nibbling. We're even making videotape samplers of Amiga output and shipping them around to folks. But word of mouth is not going to be enough. Come on Commodore, you keep *saying* you're going to advertise, but *where is it*? I think Commodore and some software companies like Electronic Arts should co-sponsor a series of spots just showing off particular software products. Or at least Amiga + some public-domain graphics-razzle-dazzle programs. You can't sell an Amiga just by showing pictures of a Workbench, after all! Especially not still pictures. I would avoid print advertising altogether. Amiga has to be on TV to make its point. And by the way, *don't* feature the Narrator initially. It's neat as a hack, but it sounds quite unpleasant and will likely turn people away. Charles Poirier (decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4,attmail)!vax135!cjp -- Charles Poirier (decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4,attmail)!vax135!cjp "The road to Hell is paved with good opinions."
keithe@tekgvs.TEK.COM (Keith Ericson) (05/13/87)
In article <1757@vax135.UUCP> cjp@vax135.UUCP (Charles Poirier) writes: >...Amiga's Enemy has to >be whoever-it-is at Commodore (or, potentially, I hope, someone >recently departed from Commodore) who decided not to Advertise. >No one (non-Amiga-owners) knows a damn thing about the Amiga and what >it can do. Hear, hear! (or is that "here, here?" "Hear here? Anyway...) Around here the only people who know anything about the Amiga are those who have already purchased one (the Few and the Brave). And this is an environment where 68000 machines are greatly favored over 80[X]8Y machines. Most folks can only just barely _spell_ Amiga! Come ON, C=, get your act together and PUBLICIZE the thing before your better mousetrap is relegated to the "it WAS a good idea" category. The '386 is snapping at your heels... keith
yuan@uhccux.UUCP (05/15/87)
In article <1757@vax135.UUCP> cjp@vax135.UUCP (Charles Poirier) writes: >I think Commodore and some software companies like Electronic Arts >should co-sponsor a series of spots just showing off particular software >products. Or at least Amiga + some public-domain graphics-razzle-dazzle >programs. You can't sell an Amiga just by showing pictures of a >Workbench, after all! Especially not still pictures. I would avoid >print advertising altogether. Amiga has to be on TV to make its point. Yeah, Amiga really needs some _decent_ advertising. I was just leafing through a _very_ old issue of Personal Computing (Jan '82, to be exact), and there was a Commodore ad (selling PET computers. Wouldn't you know it?) which has William Shaftner promoting it. Now if Commodore had Shaftner promoting the PET, why not the Amiga (which is a _much_ better computer, of course!)? Better yet, the whole StarTrek crew (like somebody suggested a while back. My appology to whomever came up with that neat script for a "commercial"). Imagine, the PET got more advertising than the Amiga..... -- UUCP: {ihnp4,seismo,ucbvax,dcdwest}!sdcsvax!nosc!uhccux!yuan ARPA: uhccux!yuan@nosc.MIL INTERNET: yuan@UHCC.HAWAII.EDU AT&T: (808) 395-1732 "I'm an Amigoid, she's an Amigoid, they're Amigoids, - Yuan Chang - Wouldn't _y_o_u like to be an Amigoid too?"
gwe@cbosgd.ATT.COM (George Erhart) (05/15/87)
In article <2287@tekgvs.TEK.COM> keithe@tekgvs.UUCP (Keith Ericson) writes: >In article <1757@vax135.UUCP> cjp@vax135.UUCP (Charles Poirier) writes: >>...Amiga's Enemy has to >>be whoever-it-is at Commodore (or, potentially, I hope, someone >>recently departed from Commodore) who decided not to Advertise. >>No one (non-Amiga-owners) knows a damn thing about the Amiga and what >>it can do. > >Hear, hear! (or is that "here, here?" "Hear here? Anyway...) > > ...Most folks can only just barely _spell_ Amiga! Come ON, C=, >get your act together and PUBLICIZE the thing before your better >mousetrap is relegated to the "it WAS a good idea" category. ... Absofarginglutely ! (Warning ! Impending personal anecdote ... assume boredom positions) When I bought my Amiga last October, I had to choose between it and upgrading my Apple //e to the brand-new Apple // Gee-Whiz. As it turned out, I could trade in my //e for a 512K, 2 drive, color //gs, or keep the //e, buy a similar Amiga system, and have enough left over for a 1200baud modem and some software! But I would never have considered it if a friend (hi, Drew!) hadn't had one (and raved about it, and forced me to stare at demo after demo, and forced me to spend hours playing with it, and.... :-). I doubt I would have even heard about it as anything other than "that new commodore machine". Even knowing about it, I was severely disappointed with the salespeople at most of the local stores; hell, *I* knew more about the machine than most of them, even then ! I asked one of them "How much of the software supports multitasking ?"; he replied "Multi-tasking ? What's that ?" Why should a computer *user* think twice about a machine he's never heard of, made by a toy company, and being sold by a salesperson who doesn't understand any machine that won't run Wordstar (tm or something, dammit !) ? Nothing kills a sale faster than a Guru crash on a demo program (due to an incompetent demonstrator). The problem is, the Amiga isn't easy to use until you understand it, and it takes a while to understand it. This is mostly because it can *do* so much. But if the salespeople aren't competent with the box, they can't begin to justify it to the cautious shopper. It's up to Commodore to 1) Tell people just how great this thing really is (ADVERTISE, dad-blastit!) and 2) Make sure their "registered" dealers are really qualified to sell it. Carol, George, etc, at Commodore Engineering : Do any of the policy-making types at C-A read this net ? (or the Wall Street Journal :-( ) If not, would you get in trouble for forwarding some of these messages to them ? Hell, the readers of this group have suggested ads, even written the scripts, and suggested casting roles ! What else can *we* do ? ------------------------------clip and save---------------------------------- Bill Thacker cbatt!cbosgd!gwe DISCLAIMER: Farg 'em if they can't take a joke ! "Life is a tragedy for those who feel, and a comedy for those who think." (from my latest fortune cookie) (how does one properly reference a fortune cookie ?) -----------------------------valuable coupon---------------------------------
sdl@linus.UUCP (05/16/87)
> Even knowing about it, I was severely disappointed with the > salespeople at most of the local stores; hell, *I* knew more about the > machine than most of them, even then ! I asked one of them "How much > of the software supports multitasking ?"; he replied "Multi-tasking ? > What's that ?" Yeah, yeah!! I am *appalled* at the lack of enthusiasm/support for the Amiga, from those who are supposed to be "authorized Amiga representatives." Here are some direct quotes I heard from these people: 1. "You know, I can't imagine why anyone would want to buy one of these [Amigas]. Myself, I like IBM equipment." (An "authorized Amiga dealer" in New Hampshire) 2. "Oh, so you own an Amiga!" [the saleslady's tone sounded like she was saying, "Oh, so you were one of those Nazi war criminals!"] She continued, "Then, you must like color...." (she sounded like she was accusing me of liking pornography). (This was a saleslady for one of the best known software products for the Amiga!) Hey, C-A, you ought to take a close look at the "salespeople" you're depending on to help sell the Amiga. Many of them are totally ignorant of the capabilities of the Amiga. Some of them are actually strongly biased *against* the machine. Steven Litvintchouk MITRE Corporation Burlington Road Bedford, MA 01730 Fone: (617)271-7753 ARPA: sdl@mitre-bedford UUCP: ...{cbosgd,decvax,genrad,ll-xn,philabs,security,utzoo}!linus!sdl
lachac@topaz.rutgers.edu.UUCP (05/16/87)
In article <4924@linus.UUCP> sdl@linus.UUCP (Steven D. Litvintchouk) writes: >Yeah, yeah!! I am *appalled* at the lack of enthusiasm/support for >the Amiga, from those who are supposed to be "authorized Amiga >representatives." [some deleted ignorant-dealer quotes] >Hey, C-A, you ought to take a close look at the "salespeople" you're >depending on to help sell the Amiga. Many of them are totally >ignorant of the capabilities of the Amiga. Some of them are actually >strongly biased *against* the machine. This reminds me of something a friend of mine in Philly related to me recently. He works for a small computer store specializing in Apple and IBM products. A while back they use to deal in Amigas, but when the "free monitor" came around, so many dealers in Philly lost so much money they dropped the Amiga. That's old news. What recently happened was he moved from part time to full time work at the store. When he did this he was REQUIRED to attend a course sponsered by Apple (6 days I think) at which he had hands on experience with the Mac and Mac II. They taught him the machine, or at least its finer points and the way in which to sell it, the markets to aim for, the software to demo, and so forth. The point is that he is a hacker, and is pro-Amiga til death. He admits though, that he is very impressed by Apples dedication to their dealers and their product line. He wished CBM was this way. So do I. -- "Truth is false and logic lost..." - Neil Peart (who at the time didn't realize he was talking about RU) lachac@topaz.rutgers.edu <--------OR--------> {seismo|ames}!rutgers!topaz!lachac
mike@ames.UUCP (Mike Smithwick) (05/18/87)
In article <12033@topaz.rutgers.edu> lachac@topaz.rutgers.edu (Gerard Lachac) writes: >That's old news. What recently happened was he moved from part time to full >time work at the store. When he did this he was REQUIRED to attend a course >sponsered by Apple (6 days I think) at which he had hands on experience with >the Mac and Mac II. They taught him the machine, or at least its finer points >and the way in which to sell it, the markets to aim for, the software to demo, >and so forth. > >The point is that he is a hacker, and is pro-Amiga til death. He admits >though, that he is very impressed by Apples dedication to their dealers >and their product line. He wished CBM was this way. > I'll second that report. Last week, I attended an Apple seminar about the Mac-SE and the Mac-Too, at a local store. There was relatively little hype (comparatively speaking, of course), and it even ventured into the technical side of things, which was refreshing. There was one official Apple sales rep, and a Tech type who did most of the talking. When asking the sales rep some technical questions, he told me that they, (the sales staff) were still out in the cold wrt. the "official apple tech training". This was because, all of the Apple training effort was going to equipping their *** DEALERS *** first. This is understandable since the dealers are having to sell {arbitrarily large number} of $$ of computer gear to corporations. Since CA in the US has largely dealt with home computers being sold thru K-Mart, there has been very little incentive to support this kind of outreach up until now. The Amiga is such an oddball machine. There has always been the a wall between the "business" and "home" computers, and seldom have they crossed the line. How do you market a machine which has such a wide variety of applications, in business, home, AND scientific institutions. If a computer is perceived as being largely for home use, then "obviously it can't be a good office machine", and if it is seen as an office computer, then "obviously it's too complex for little Johnny to use for his class reports." The Mac has helped to slowly break down this wall, but not enough. With luck the Amiga 2000 will help it even more, because of the Bridge card. (Although, it's unique ability in business graphics presentations, titling etc. should help it in it's own right. . .). Much also has got to be said about the unpaid sales staff, the "Amiga Evan- gelists". In the beginning, we KNEW that we had the best machine, and wanted to let the whole world know. One must stop and cogitate as to where CA, and the Amiga might be without those who, unpaid and on their own time, sold the machine to friends and others. I met one fellow at the Mac seminar who is a Navy pilot and had just bought his amiga 3 days before. He talked a commander of his into buying one, well before he got one for himself. There is an engineer at Lockheed who has managed to goad them in to buying several machines (and are now planning on buying several A2000s). There are those diehards who formed something called "the First Amiga Users Group" about 1 1/2 years ago. What started out as a simple passtime, now requires an enormous amount of freetime to support a club approaching 1000 members, with a 32 page monthly magazine. Then, of course, are the Fred Fishs, the Leo Schwabs, the Matt Dillions, who know a good computer when they meet one. Where would the Amiga be without them? They and the rest of us are doing the job that CA should be doing, but seems sadly ill-equipped, or unwilling, to do. OOPS, the boss is coming. Uh, hi, just practicing my typi [TERMINAL EOT] -- *** mike (powered by M&Ms) smithwick *** "ever felt like life was a game, and someone gave you the wrong instruction book?"
ross@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu (Ross Miller) (05/19/87)
Another enemy of the Amiga, as lamented by a dealer friend of mine, is that the dealers do not make a significant profit. How can you expect a dealer to be interested in the machine when he is more likely to make money selling a clone and the expensive software that goes with it. Ross -- csnet: ross@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu uucp: ross@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu || ...wanginst!ulowell!ross Trust the computer. The computer is your friend.
ali@rocky.STANFORD.EDU (Ali Ozer) (05/19/87)
In article <1291@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu> Ross Miller writes: >Another enemy of the Amiga, as lamented by a dealer friend of mine, is that >the dealers do not make a significant profit. How can you expect a >dealer to be interested in the machine when he is more likely to make >money selling a clone and the expensive software that goes with it. Well, then one solution to that is to get Amigas sold in university bookstores, as a part of the university's computers-for-every-student (or whatever it's called) plan. Most such programs are nonprofit, right? Here's a message I had sent out to the net about a month ago, except I don't think it ever got out, as Rocky (our host) was flakey those few days (and was dropping incoming and outgoing Usenet stuff all over the place). I also did not get a single response! (Well, maybe no one liked my message enough to respond...) Oh well, here's what I said back then: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Atari just gave Stanford two 520STs and four 1040STs. Reason? They want to hire Stanford students to do game testing and possibly development on these machines. And of course a lot of students were interested in being hired. The problem is, even my boss, who is very influential in a lot of the decisions concerning undergraduate CS education at Stanford, was interested. Why? Because he is interested in providing the "most diverse" form of education possible, and now, finally, he has affordable (ie, free) color microcomputers on which he can have students do color stuff (which they couldn't on the Macs, most of which were also obtained free)... The Atari person who was here (Tramiel's son!) brought along some programs, including a paint program, a lot of people were impressed with the ``wonderful'' color graphics provided. (FYI, 320 by 200 resolution with 16 colors.) I push the Amiga at every opportunity I get, and my boss realizes it is a great machine, and that it is much better than the STs, but he just can't go out and purchase six Amigas and development systems. If he did, or, if we SOMEHOW got a few Amiga systems with the bare minimum development software (all that's needed is compilers, everything else can be had PD), there would definitely be enough people willing to teach courses on them (courses like "using the Amiga," or "programming the Amiga," or something more general, like, "programming under multitasking," etc, etc...). Anyway, I am not asking anyone (ie, Commodore-Amiga) to donate Amigas to Stanford, mainly because it just would not be fair to give Amigas to just one school, and donating machines to many schools might get to be too expensive. I think the problem is more a problem of exposure. An average Stanford student might never see an Amiga, while he or she will see and use the Mac and the PCs quite a bit. Of course, there are people who have Amigas around campus, and from what I hear, they do a good job of presenting the Amiga to their dorms and stuff, but when the time comes for a student to buy a computer, he or she goes to the bookstore, sees the Macs and the IBMs sold at prices lower than those outside of campus, and obviously chooses among those two machines. Now I hear that Atari has been trying to get the STs sold through the same program, with some discount (a color 520ST system for $600, for instance). Apparently their proposal was refused (I don't know why), but they will be reapplying soon. Now, wouldn't it be great if Commodore applied too? If they did, I could get my boss to put some pressure into getting the right people into accepting such a proposal. And, of course, such a program should be made available at all schools providing similar discount programs. The A500 lists for $650, and the 1080 monitor lists for $500 (still). But we all know you can buy the 1080 for as low as $260, and the A500 will probably be available for $600 or less. If Commodore would make these two available through the bookstores for say $800, they could sell a lot to students, and, more importantly, get a lot of exposure. And a price tag of $800 isn't really any lower than what the machine will be selling for anyway, so it's not all that unfair to off campus people. And, as I said once before, I myself would not mind spending some time demoing the machine at the bookstore, and I am sure many of us feel the same way. Thus Commodore might not have to provide paid representatives at every school --- there might be enough volunteers among us... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Anyway, not much has changed since then, except I had a chance to give my boss an Amiga demo this past weekend, and he will be writing a letter to Commodore-Amiga trying to get them to enter this educational market... I hope it works out, but it will require some cooperation from Commodore. Ali Ozer, ali@rocky.stanford.edu
cjp@vax135.UUCP (Charles Poirier) (05/19/87)
In article <1291@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu> ross@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu (Ross Miller) writes: >...the dealers do not make a significant profit. How can you expect a >dealer to be interested in the machine when he is more likely to make >money selling a clone and the expensive software that goes with it. As far as software goes, is IBM-PC software really more expensive than comparable Amiga software? I consider $40 - 50 per average Amiga game pretty expensive. *Somebody* is making good money out of that. -- Charles Poirier (decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4,attmail)!vax135!cjp "The road to Hell is paved with good opinions."
jonesjg@dg_rtp.UUCP (05/20/87)
In article <4924@linus.UUCP> sdl@linus.UUCP (Steven D. Litvintchouk) writes: > >> Even knowing about it, I was severely disappointed with the >> salespeople at most of the local stores; hell, *I* knew more about the >> machine than most of them, even then ! I asked one of them "How much >> of the software supports multitasking ?"; he replied "Multi-tasking ? >> What's that ?" > >Yeah, yeah!! I am *appalled* at the lack of enthusiasm/support for >the Amiga, from those who are supposed to be "authorized Amiga >representatives." > I agree and for what I can see of the stores in the Raleigh area the Amiga is getting less and less popular. The Store I bought my amiga from didn't even have a display model anymore. They only had some genlocks and trans- formers laying around. For the last few months upon every visit to the store I saw more and more Apple machines and less of the amiga! And now even after the machine has been out for 2 years it is still hard to find a sells person that really knows the machine. I know the amiga may not be for everybody but without some advertising real soon now :-) I can't see any future. The amiga is truely a unique machine and I would hate to see it vanish beneath a pile of Macs and PCees. With the Amiga's execellent sound and graphics, coupled with the genlock, why not just make the commercial with the machine. I can imagine the commercial starting out with some nice digitized music, with some nice scenery from the genlock. From the background a couple of animated kids come walking into the forground. The background from the genlock could fade away to a completely computer generated background drawn with DPaint. The Kids could walk from screen to screen of futuristic drawings telling what ever message the marketing folks think best. At the end the camera could pull away letting the audience see the commercial playing on the amiga screen with a little blurb like "Commodore Amiga the worlds most creative computer ". The same script could be released to computer stores for a demo, Of course this would take a fully loaded demo computer, But after all that's the kind of machine I would expect the dealers to be demo-ing anyway! J. Greg Jones backgound from Dpaint, or Ageis images -- Greg Jones Data General, RTP, NC ...!seismo!mcnc!rti!dg_rtp!jones
hbo@ucsbcsl.UUCP (Howard Owen) (05/23/87)
Speaking of the dealers not making money, I just heard a rumor that
Commodore has raised the suggested retail prices on the A500 and A2000 to
$699.95 and $1995.00 respectively. The other peripheral goodies are supposed
to go up too. For example, the 512K RAM card for the 500 is quoted at $199.95.
Does anyone have some (semi-)authoritative information on this subject. Is
anyone else as *FURIOUS* as I am about the possibility of eleventh hour
price hikes?
--
Howard Owen, Programmer/Analyst PHYSNET: SBPHY::HBO
University of California, Santa Barbara BITNET: HBO@SBITP
Physics Computer Services ARPA: hbo%sbphy@LBL.ARPA
usenet: ucbvax!ucsbcsl!sbphy!hbo
Disclaimer: "Out, brief candle.. Oh! I thought
you said `declaim.'"lachac@topaz.rutgers.edu (Gerard Lachac) (05/24/87)
In article <490@ucsbcsl.UUCP> hbo@ucsbcsl.UUCP (Howard Owen) writes: > > Speaking of the dealers not making money, I just heard a rumor that >Commodore has raised the suggested retail prices on the A500 and A2000 to >$699.95 and $1995.00 respectively. The other peripheral goodies are supposed >to go up too. For example, the 512K RAM card for the 500 is quoted at $199.95. >Does anyone have some (semi-)authoritative information on this subject. Is >anyone else as *FURIOUS* as I am about the possibility of eleventh hour >price hikes? I have a lot stronger words than FURIOUS, but I would get banned from the net more than likely. I have heard this "rumor" from quite a few different people. It seems that current Amiga dealer received a list recently with the retail prices of the new Amiga hardware. Sidecar was supposedly listed for ~$900. One rumor I heard said that CBM was ticked that mail-order places were advertising the A2000 for less than the A1000 currently retails for, so they went and raised it. You can believe this one or not... All I can say is that I heard West Chester made some distinct improvements on the A2000 that was reviewed by all the mags. But the improvements I heard don't justify a $500 increase. I for one would like to hear a comment on this policy from CBM. -- "Truth is false and logic lost..." - Neil Peart (who at the time didn't realize he was talking about RU) lachac@topaz.rutgers.edu <--------OR--------> {seismo|ames}!rutgers!topaz!lachac
robinson@renoir.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson) (05/25/87)
In article <12236@topaz.rutgers.edu> lachac@topaz.rutgers.edu (Gerard Lachac) writes: >One rumor I heard said that CBM was ticked that mail-order places were >advertising the A2000 for less than the A1000 currently retails for, so they >went and raised it. You can believe this one or not... This seems a plausible scenario, given the demonstrated competence of those responsible for marketing the Amiga. Of course, the logical thing to do would be to lower the price of the 1000, but I would guess that Commodore executives have decided to single-handedly reverse the trend towards progressively cheaper technology. ;-| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "If you study the logistics and heuristics of the mystics, You will find that their minds rarely move in a line" "The Ranger isn't going to like it, Yogi." Mike Robinson USENET: ucbvax!ernie!robinson ARPA: robinson@ernie.berkeley.edu
billk@pnet01.CTS.COM (Bill Kelly) (05/25/87)
In article <#?whatever#?> lachac@topaz.rutgers.edu (Gerard Lachac) writes: >Sidecar was supposedly listed for ~$900. WHAT A JOKE! I can't think of any reason at all people won't say "Gee, that's nice, but I can buy a PC clone for $600..." can you? Nine hundred bucks? I wonder how many they'll sell? -- Bill Kelly {akgua, hplabs!hp-sdd, sdcsvax}!crash!pnet01!billk (Don't use pnet01!billk; try crash!pnet01!billk -- Thanks!) Commodore's marketing strategy: "Ready... Fire! ...Aim???" --
sdl@linus.UUCP (05/26/87)
> In article <#?whatever#?> lachac@topaz.rutgers.edu (Gerard Lachac) writes: > > >Sidecar was supposedly listed for ~$900. > > WHAT A JOKE! I can't think of any reason at all people won't say > "Gee, that's nice, but I can buy a PC clone for $600..." can you? Nine > hundred bucks? I wonder how many they'll sell? This rumor was apparently confirmed at last week's BCS Amiga User's group meeting in Cambridge, MA. Andy Bell stated that the Sidecar will be priced "close to $1000". Reason: to not undercut the Amiga 2000. The New England distributorship, at least, will be offering a deal where you can trade-in your A1000 for an A2000 plus about $1000. That's what Andy Bell advocated. He also stated that it wouldn't surprise him if the Sidecar had a "limited production run." I don't understand Commodore's reasoning. IBM PC compatibility won't save the Amiga; it wasn't what saved the Mac from oblivion either. The only other advantage of the A2000 is that it has more memory and drives onboard rather than having to buy a separate expansion box. But does that justify the price differential between an A2000 and an A500, especially as more expansion boxes become available at lower prices? Steven Litvintchouk MITRE Corporation Burlington Road Bedford, MA 01730 Fone: (617)271-7753 ARPA: sdl@mitre-bedford UUCP: ...{cbosgd,decvax,genrad,ll-xn,philabs,security,utzoo}!linus!sdl
scotty@l5comp.UUCP (Scott Turner) (05/27/87)
In article <490@ucsbcsl.UUCP> hbo@ucsbcsl.UUCP (Howard Owen) writes: > Speaking of the dealers not making money, I just heard a rumor that >Commodore has raised the suggested retail prices on the A500 and A2000 to >$699.95 and $1995.00 respectively. The other peripheral goodies are supposed >to go up too. For example, the 512K RAM card for the 500 is quoted at $199.95. Well my rumors say this is thanks to our President and his war on us via trade tariffs. Yall didn't forget that the Amiga 1000 was made in JAPAN did ya? :) From what I hear the A500 is being made in Hong Kong though, but with all the fears over trade tariffs I can visualize that what these rumors say could be true. Scott Turner -- L5 Computing, the home of Merlin, Arthur, Excalibur and the CRAM. GEnie: JST | UUCP: stride!l5comp!scotty | 12311 Maplewood Ave; Edmonds WA 98020 If Motorola had wanted us to use BPTR's they'd have built in shifts on A regs [ BCPL? Just say *NO*! ] (I don't smoke, send flames to /dev/null)
scotty@l5comp.UUCP (Scott Turner) (05/27/87)
One more rumor I forgot to throw on this fire... I've also heard this rumor floating that the prices are being boosted to allow margin for the trade in programs.... For the A2000 that would be the "Trade in your A1000 and get the A2000" For the A500 that would be the "Trade in your C128 and get the A500" Scott Turner -- L5 Computing, the home of Merlin, Arthur, Excalibur and the CRAM. GEnie: JST | UUCP: stride!l5comp!scotty | 12311 Maplewood Ave; Edmonds WA 98020 If Motorola had wanted us to use BPTR's they'd have built in shifts on A regs [ BCPL? Just say *NO*! ] (I don't smoke, send flames to /dev/null)
langz@athena.mit.edu (Lang Zerner) (05/28/87)
In article <490@ucsbcsl.UUCP> hbo@ucsbcsl.UUCP (Howard Owen) writes: >Speaking of the dealers not making money, I just heard a rumor that >Commodore has raised the suggested retail prices on the A500 and A2000 to >$699.95 and $1995.00 respectively. The other peripheral goodies are supposed This may be so, but as recently as the June issue of BYTE magazine, Computer Mail Order advertised the Amiga 2000 with 1MB RAM, A1080 monitor, and A2088 bridge card for $1999. External drive, etc not included. This isn't meant as an advertisement, and I'm sure CMOs prices are just as volatile as the marketplace, but whatever C-A's marketing people do, some friendly salespeople are going to be willing to take less profit for higher volume. So get some sleep and don't worry too much :-). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Lang Zerner ARPA/Internet: langz@athena.mit.edu UUCP/Usenet: ...{mirror|seismo|blblbl}!mit-eddie!langz@athena USPS: P.O. Box 247, M.I.T. Branch, Cambridge, MA 02139 Phone: 617/628-7156 "Nothing is ever accomplished by a reasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw ==============================================================================
feb@cblpe.ATT.COM (Franco Barber) (05/28/87)
In article <694@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU> langz@teela.UUCP (Lang Zerner) writes: >In article <490@ucsbcsl.UUCP> hbo@ucsbcsl.UUCP (Howard Owen) writes: >>Speaking of the dealers not making money, I just heard a rumor that >>Commodore has raised the suggested retail prices on the A500 and A2000 to >>$699.95 and $1995.00 respectively. The other peripheral goodies are supposed > >This may be so, but as recently as the June issue of BYTE magazine, Computer >Mail Order advertised the Amiga 2000 with 1MB RAM, A1080 monitor, and A2088 >bridge card for $1999. External drive, etc not included. This isn't meant as >an advertisement, and I'm sure CMOs prices are just as volatile as the >marketplace, but whatever C-A's marketing people do, some friendly salespeople >are going to be willing to take less profit for higher volume. So get some >sleep and don't worry too much :-). >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Lang Zerner ARPA/Internet: langz@athena.mit.edu > UUCP/Usenet: ...{mirror|seismo|blblbl}!mit-eddie!langz@athena I also read that Commodore has 'lowered' the retail prices of their PC clones by upgrading the systems to include monitors without raising the retail price. Does this means they are STILL trying to get rid of those old 1080 monitors?? Could we extend this a little bit and presume that the new higher list prices for the 2000/500 are for systems bundled with monitors?? Is inews pissing you off too? Is inews pissing you off too? Is inews pissing you off too? Is inews pissing you off too? Is inews pissing you off too? Is inews pissing you off too? Is inews pissing you off too? -- Franco Barber AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus, Ohio ..!cbatt!cbplf!cblpe!feb (614) 860-7803
lachac@topaz.rutgers.edu.UUCP (05/29/87)
In article <694@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU> langz@teela.UUCP (Lang Zerner) writes: >This may be so, but as recently as the June issue of BYTE magazine, Computer >Mail Order advertised the Amiga 2000 with 1MB RAM, A1080 monitor, and A2088 >bridge card for $1999. External drive, etc not included. This isn't meant as Unfortunately your logic has a flaw. BYTE articles and advertisements are submitted monthes in advance. (Somewhere along the line of 4-5 months) This is why you see alot of "vaporware" advertised. The companies underestimate release dates. Those prices were set on projected retail 4 months ago. -- "Truth is false and logic lost..." - Neil Peart (who at the time didn't realize he was talking about RU) lachac@topaz.rutgers.edu <--------OR--------> {seismo|ames}!rutgers!topaz!lachac
cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (05/29/87)
In article <12304@topaz.rutgers.edu> (Gerard Lachac) writes: >Unfortunately your logic has a flaw. >BYTE articles and advertisements are submitted monthes in advance. >(Somewhere along the line of 4-5 months) > >This is why you see alot of "vaporware" advertised. The companies >underestimate release dates. Those prices were set on projected retail 4 >months ago. Yup, that's why Commodore has an announcement in the What's New section listing the Amiga 500 as being available for $649. All in all a very big blunder on the part of Commodore Product Marketing that makes them appear incompetent. I am sure there are reasons for the price hike, no one in their right mind would do this to themself on purpose. --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
phil@titan.UUCP (05/30/87)
I don't even know if this message will make it out of Houston, but here goes... In article <490@ucsbcsl.UUCP> hbo@ucsbcsl.UUCP (Howard Owen) writes: > > Speaking of the dealers not making money, I just heard a rumor that >Commodore has raised the suggested retail prices on the A500 and A2000 to >$699.95 and $1995.00 respectively. The other peripheral goodies are supposed >to go up too. For example, the 512K RAM card for the 500 is quoted at $199.95. >Does anyone have some (semi-)authoritative information on this subject. Is >anyone else as *FURIOUS* as I am about the possibility of eleventh hour >price hikes? I just got word from our best/most reliable/most enthusiastic local Amiga dealer Wednesday that the official price of the A2000 will be $1995. We were all quite disappointed. He couldn't stop apologizing to me about it, because we had been talking for about a month about when it was going to ship and what discount I would get, etc. What he heard through his supplier is that Commodore says they never officially announced a price until now. I guess they are implying that either some mag estimated one or someone at Commodore gave out an unofficial price. But the retail price is now officially $1995. BTW: I also heard that Commodore is considering a lawsuit against the mag "Compute!" for publishing the A2000 article before they were supposed to. A positive counterpoint to all the Amiga dealer bashing is this place called "Computer Revelations" in Houston. This is the dealer that I intend to purchase my 2000 from. They are *EXTREMLY* gung ho about the Amiga (although they also sell other Commodore hardware). They are very helpful and positive and enthusiastic and are excellent representatives for the Amiga. If you are in the Houston area and considering purchasing an Amiga, check these people out! William LeFebvre Department of Computer Science Rice University <phil@Rice.edu>
iqbal@pnet01.CTS.COM (Iqbal Hans) (05/30/87)
Speaking of advertising, have you seen the latest issue of Inc.? Look at
pages 71-94. It's all IBM advertisements on their new computers! IBM takes out
a 24 page ad in a magazine that has very little to do with computers
themselves, and Commodore can only advertise in their own magazines (About
Commodore products that is.).
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UUCP: {akgua, hplabs!hp-sdd, sdcsvax, nosc}!crash!pnet01!iqbal
ARPA: crash!pnet01!iqbal@nosc
INET: iqbal@pnet01.CTS.COMpeter@sugar.UUCP (Peter DaSilva) (06/22/87)
> Is inews pissing you off too?
No, but you are.
Why not just edit the message the way you're supposed to?
'nuff said.keithe@tekgvs.TEK.COM (Keith Ericson) (06/30/87)
In article <215@sugar.UUCP> peter@sugar.UUCP (Peter DaSilva) writes:
#> Is inews pissing you off too?
#
#No, but you are.
#
#Why not just edit the message the way you're supposed to?
#
"...the way you're supposed to..." is hereby defined as "change all
the leading ">" characters to something else and inews won't know
that they mark "quoted" lines and won't count them in the "quoted
versus added" line count. Like I did here... Saves lots of "this
line added to fool inews" stuff...
keith