[comp.sys.amiga] Suggestion for new 'feature' for 1.3

dillon@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) (06/24/87)

	I happen to *like* the way the Amiga handles window activation...
I don't want a window to activate whenever I move my mouse into it.  How
about this for 1.3:

	If a window gets closed and it is the active window, then the new
active window must be picked from the remaining windows on the screen.  Why
don't you pick the one under the mouse??

	It would be utterly trivial to write a program to handle this...
simply catch CloseWindow(), do the CloseWindow(), then push a mouse click
into the input event stream.

				-Matt

gary@eddie.MIT.EDU (Gary Samad) (06/26/87)

In article <8706241834.AA13064@cory.Berkeley.EDU> dillon@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) writes:
}
}How about this for 1.3:
}
}	If a window gets closed and it is the active window, then the new
}active window must be picked from the remaining windows on the screen.  Why
}don't you pick the one under the mouse??
}
}	It would be utterly trivial to write a program to handle this...
}simply catch CloseWindow(), do the CloseWindow(), then push a mouse click
}into the input event stream.

Not intending to specifically pick on you Matt, but puhleeze don't add
anything to the OS that starts sending false mouse clicks down the input
streams!!  It's one thing if people want to torture themselves by running
daemons that send these clicks and double clicks around but don't force
me to deal with unwanted gadget activations, etc. that are caused by
unintentional mouse clicks.

For you guys simply running CLIs, these click daemons are fine but, watch
out!  Don't leave your mouse sitting in a window pointing at a gadget or
scrollbar when you activate one of these things!

And, by the way, to some programs (such as The Microfiche Filer) double-clicks
are meaningful and if you run one of these double-click-eaters you cannot
effectively use the program!

This is not to say that these programs are not useful to some people, but
it would be a grave mistake to add something like this to the OS.

	Thank you.
	Gary

bryce@COGSCI.BERKELEY.EDU (Bryce Nesbitt) (06/26/87)

In article <6192@eddie.MIT.EDU> Gary Samad typed:
}In article <cory.Berkeley.EDU> dillon@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) writes:
}}
}} How about this for V1.3: [...]
}} [It] would be utterly trivial to write a program to handle this...
}} simply catch CloseWindow(), do the CloseWindow(), then push a mouse click
}} into the input event stream.
}}
} [puhleeze] don't add anything to the OS that starts sending false mouse
} clicks down the input streams!!  It's one thing if people want to torture
} themselves by running daemons that send these clicks and double clicks
} around but don't force me to deal with unwanted gadget activations, etc.
} that are caused by unintentional mouse clicks.

You are correct, dumping click events into the input stream is a nasty thing
to do.  What is needed is a way to say to Intuition, 
ActiveateWindowUnderPointer() or, better, WhichWindowIsUnderThePointer()
I tried to ask JimM this question at a recent BADGE meeting, but did not quite
get to it.  SunMouse would then become a respected member of society, as would
the idea you complained about.  AutoFacc is just plain dirty, and will soon
be obsoleted by Facc II, anyway.  Have any more click-ish programs to
complain about?

While on the subject of needed Intuition tricks, how about RethinkWindow().
It would rethink a window, primarily the size and position, in one atomic
step.   This would eliminate the need for a TWO step move THEN size operation.


> And, by the way, to some programs (such as The Microfiche Filer) double-clicks
> are meaningful and if you run one of these double-click-eaters you cannot
> effectively use the program!

[ That's my goldfish you just stepped on! :-]

If you are referring to the only double-click program I know of, ClickToFront,
you're wrong.  ClickToForont does not eat anything but ~50 bytes of RAM.

The thing that can trip ClickToFront up is if something like SunMouse
or Matt's idea dumps a fake click event into the stream.

Try ClickToFront with Microfiche, or just with the Workbench tool.  Both
use double-clicks, and both integrate smoothly. 

>--------
> This is not to say that these programs are not useful to some people, but
> it would be a grave mistake to add something like this to the OS.

Not to rule on the merit of these ideas in particular, but I'm convinced
that they could be added to the OS with no problems.  Also remember that
when something becomes part of the OS everyone will get a chance to test
their stuff out with it, and problems can be compensated for.

The Amiga is amazingly tollerant and forgiving as to the amount of stuff
you may muck with externally before something breaks. 

The only grave is the lack of innovation, enhancemnt and change.

}	Thank you.
}	Gary

|\ /|  . Ack! (NAK, EOT, SOH)
{o o} . 
( " )	bryce@cogsci.berkeley.EDU -or- ucbvax!cogsci!bryce
  U	Single tasking?  Just stare at them for a moment, then start to laugh.

tadguy@xanth.UUCP (Tad Guy) (06/26/87)

In article <8706241834.AA13064@cory.Berkeley.EDU> dillon@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) writes:
>	I happen to *like* the way the Amiga handles window activation...
>I don't want a window to activate whenever I move my mouse into it.  How
>about this for 1.3:
[Description of Yet Another Window Activation Procedure deleted].
>				-Matt

No.  What *really* should happen is we should get another screen in
Preferences with your suggestion, point-to-type, click-to-type and any
other window selection method to choose from.  I don't want to be locked
into one particular window selection scheme; I want the one I prefer.

Maybe handing it like printer selection is handled now, with loadable drivers?

	...tad
-- 
Tad Guy		(804)-440-4529	 UUCP:	tadguy@xanth.UUCP
Old Dominion University		   or:	...!seismo!xanth!tadguy
Department of Computer Science 	CSNET:	tadguy@odu.CSNET
Norfolk, Virginia  23508     old ARPA:	tadguy%xanth.cs.odu.edu@RELAY.CS.NET

ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) (06/27/87)

In article <8706260624.AA20450@cogsci.berkeley.edu> bryce@COGSCI.BERKELEY.EDU (Bryce Nesbitt) writes:
>In article <6192@eddie.MIT.EDU> Gary Samad typed:
>}In article <cory.Berkeley.EDU> dillon@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) writes:
>}} How about this for V1.3: [...]
>}} [It] would be utterly trivial to write a program to handle this...
>}} simply catch CloseWindow(), do the CloseWindow(), then push a mouse click
>}} into the input event stream.
>}}
>} [puhleeze] don't add anything to the OS that starts sending false mouse
>} clicks down the input streams!!
>
>You are correct, dumping click events into the input stream is a nasty thing
>to do.  What is needed is a way to say to Intuition, 
>ActiveateWindowUnderPointer() or, better, WhichWindowIsUnderThePointer()

	It's easy.  First, find out the screen coordinates of the mouse
pointer (trivial).  Then, call the layers.library function WhichLayer().
This will return a pointer to the layer that the specified X,Y coordinates
are inside.  Then, search through the linked list of windows and find the
one with the same layer address.

>While on the subject of needed Intuition tricks, how about RethinkWindow().
>It would rethink a window, primarily the size and position, in one atomic
>step.
>
	Yes, please.  Another vote for this one, too.  Note that it is an
addition to the layers.library, not Intuition.

>The Amiga is amazingly tollerant and forgiving as to the amount of stuff
>you may muck with externally before something breaks. 
>
	Hmmm.  I don't know.  I think the system would get *terribly*
annoyed if you had Robotroff, Ping, AutoPoint, and Facc I all running at the
same time.  :-) :-) :-)

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 \_ -_	 Bike shrunk by popular demand,	      dual ---> !{well,unicom}!ewhac
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lachac@topaz.rutgers.edu (Gerard Lachac) (06/27/87)

In article <1418@xanth.UUCP> tadguy@xanth.UUCP (Tad Guy) writes:
>
>No.  What *really* should happen is we should get another screen in
>Preferences with your suggestion, point-to-type, click-to-type and any
>other window selection method to choose from.  I don't want to be locked
>into one particular window selection scheme; I want the one I prefer.
>
>Maybe handing it like printer selection is handled now, with loadable drivers?

Hey, and while we're fantasizing how about including a font selection menu in
preferences.  I know this has been suggested before (but in case everyone 
forgot :-) but it would be nice to see a requestor for default system font
built into the system-configuration scheme.

Sort of like incorporating SETFONT into preferences...

-- 
		"Truth is false and logic lost..."
					- Neil Peart
	(who at the time didn't realize he was talking about RU)
lachac@topaz.rutgers.edu <--------OR--------> {seismo|ames}!rutgers!topaz!lachac

gary@eddie.MIT.EDU (Gary Samad) (07/07/87)

In article <8706260624.AA20450@cogsci.berkeley.edu> bryce@COGSCI.BERKELEY.EDU (Bryce Nesbitt) writes:
}In article <6192@eddie.MIT.EDU> I typed:
}> And to some programs (such as The Microfiche Filer) double-clicks
}> are meaningful and if you run one of these double-click-eaters you cannot
}> effectively use the program!
}
}[ That's my goldfish you just stepped on! :-]
}
}If you are referring to the only double-click program I know of, ClickToFront,
}you're wrong.  ClickToForont does not eat anything but ~50 bytes of RAM.
}
}Try ClickToFront with Microfiche, or just with the Workbench tool.  Both
}use double-clicks, and both integrate smoothly. 

Sorry, Bryce, I didn't mean to step on your toes but someone (and someone
doing a review!) thought that the MFF was buggy because double-click didn't
work!  Good thing he sent some mail and asked about it before publishing
that in his review!  He did say he was running ClickToFront.  Was it just
version 1.0 that ate double-clicks or something?

	Gary