jdm@pnet02.UUCP (06/22/87)
Derek et al:
One of the main reasons that the PS SMUSplay and other files can't do their
thing with DMCS files is simple. DMCS uses a variant of SMUS, with instrument
locations at the END of the file, rather than at the beginning as required by
the SMUS format. Now, DMCS CAN write out SMUS files..It's just that many
people with DMCS don't bother to use the special menu selection "Save as SMUS
file" when savig their work in DMCS. A DMCS -> SMUS file converter would not
be that hard to rite, and from what I've heard, some people are working on
them.
It's rather interesting that EA, who *created* the IFF standard in the first
place, would abandon it for their music program.
John
UUCP: {ihnp4!crash, hplabs!hp-sdd!crash}!gryphon!pnet02!jdm
INET: jdm@pnet02.CTS.COMmb@munnari.oz (Michael Bednarek) (06/23/87)
In article <769@gryphon.CTS.COM> jdm@pnet02.CTS.COM (John Mesiavech) writes: > Now, DMCS CAN write out SMUS files..It's just that many >people with DMCS don't bother to use the special menu selection "Save as SMUS >file" when savig their work in DMCS. I'll strongly discourage people from saving their scores as SMUS files. You might be in for a big surprise when you re-load them. In article <3702@spool.WISC.EDU> derek@speedy.WISC.EDU (Derek Zahn) wrote: >I think it is great that there are IFF standards (SMUS and 8SVX) for music. ONLY IF IT IS POSSIBLE TO FOLLOW THOSE STANDARS. IT IS DIFFICULT TO DO SO IF THEY ARE NOT PUBLISHED. >This means (theoretically) that people can trade music back and forth on >bulletin boards and whatnot as freely as they do IFF pictures. Supposedly. >However, the only music files I have seen are in "DMCS" format. Is this >SMUS? If so, either I am stupid or DMCS does not use "standard" SMUS or the >public domain SMUS players on a Fred Fish disk do not work properly (or >some combination thereof). The BBS of the AUG Melbourne has a section for scores. It contains only DMCS or SONIX files. For the reasons, see below. In article <8706200548.AA18900@ingres.Berkeley.EDU> hatcher@INGRES.BERKELEY.EDU (Doug Merritt) wrote: >DMCS supports two formats: IFF SMUS and its own private IFF DMCS format. The >latter is an unpublished IFF format (which is just crying to be reverse >engineered). Therefore SMUS players will not understand DMCS format files. > [...] >Sonix produces standard IFF SMUS files except that there are chunks >named SNX1 in them. As far as I know the contents of such chunks are >unpublished, but the rest of the file should be playable by any >SMUS player (IFF file readers are supposed to ignore unknown chunk types >rather than breaking). I haven't tried this, though. HA! DMCS can't even play SMUS files which it has created itself! Nor can either of the published SMUS players (Fish #58, by J.Hodgson). Four scores which demonstrate this are available on request. (Graceland, Under African Skies, Homeless, Diamonds On The Soles of Her Shoes) Also, you might like to try to store "Debussy 1st Arabesque" (on the DMCS disk) as a SMUS file and load it again. Look (and hear) the instrumentation at bar 95. Generally, SMUS files are often played too slow, tempo changes in the original score confuse any SMUS player considerably. And if you think about it, do you really expect that a file of 2000 bytes reproduces music faithfully which is stored in 20000 bytes as DMCS file? If DMCS and SONIX are the state of the art in Music software on the Amiga, we have a lot to look forward to. Frustratedly, Michael Bednarek (mb@munnari.oz.au | ...seismo.CSS.GOV!munnari!mb) u3369429@{murdu.oz.au | ucsvc.dn.mu.oz.au} ...seismo.CSS.GOV!munnari!{murdu.oz | ucsvc.dn.mu.oz}!u3369429 "POST NO BILLS."
hatcher@INGRES.BERKELEY.EDU (Doug Merritt) (06/23/87)
In article <769@gryphon.CTS.COM> jdm@pnet02.CTS.COM (John Mesiavech) writes: >One of the main reasons that the PS SMUSplay and other files can't do their >thing with DMCS files is simple. DMCS uses a variant of SMUS, with instrument >locations at the END of the file, rather than at the beginning as required by >the SMUS format. This is not quite right; DMCS does *not* use a "variant" of SMUS. It has its very own IFF type. There are lots of kinds of IFF standards, all of which fit one broad convention to allow any IFF file to be read (if not understood). The layout of the DMCS IFF files looks somewhat like the SMUS IFF files, simply because they're both storing similar information. In particular, the chunk names are all different, so even if the DMCS "UIID" instrument chunk were moved to the top of the file, it wouldn't help, because SMUS has instrument chunks named "INS1". A second example is the melody itself, stored in "UBR1" chunks in DMCS and in "TRAK" chunks in SMUS. None of the other chunks have the same names, either. Also DMCS has a machine identifier "AMGA" (for Amiga) near the top of the file; although unrecognized chunks will (should) be ignored by IFF readers, that does mean there's going to be *some* difference between DMCS files on the Amiga and on the Mac. Don't know if it implies actual incompatibilities or not (that chunk has no contents, it's just a flag). >Now, DMCS CAN write out SMUS files..It's just that many >people with DMCS don't bother to use the special menu selection "Save as SMUS >file" when savig their work in DMCS. A DMCS -> SMUS file converter would not >be that hard to rite, and from what I've heard, some people are working on >them. All very true. >It's rather interesting that EA, who *created* the IFF standard in the first >place, would abandon it for their music program. Not exactly. The IFF standard allows for developers to create their own private unpublished chunk types within IFF files, and EA did exactly that with the DMCS format. Although the precise contents are not public information, it is still an IFF file and each chunk can be found, read, and printed by a program like "iffdump", even though they haven't told us what the contents of each chunk *means*. This is certainly a regrettable way to do things, but is specifically allowed by the IFF standard. And it is preferable to having private *non-IFF* files...you can never be sure what the h*ll a file is in the first place with random binary. At least with IFF, there's always a chunk name to go with the file; better than no information at all! Furthermore there are typically a series of chunks, each of which is recognizable as a chunk, and has a name to go with it, so there's a certain amount of structural information available in any IFF file, even when it is a custom, unpublished type. Which is how I managed to figure out all this stuff about DMCS in the first place. FYI there are other IFF types that are unpublished, including Deluxe Video, Deluxe Print, and Flow outlines, and doubtless others, too. The original IFF specs *named* maybe 15 or 20 types but only *documented* the contents of a half dozen or so. Sonix uses the published IFF SMUS type, but they do add an unpublished SNX1 chunk buried in it, meaning that the piece can be played by a public domain SMUS player, but there is some unknown information being skipped in that one SNX1 chunk (I have no idea whether anything important is stuck in there or not). Doug Merritt ucbvax!ingres!hatcher (thru Jun 28) or ucbvax!unisoft!certes!doug
peter@sugar.UUCP (Peter DaSilva) (07/10/87)
> Four scores which demonstrate this are available on request. > (Graceland, Under African Skies, Homeless, Diamonds On The Soles of Her Shoes) While I'd like to see these scores, I'd like to note that if you distribute them you're probably guilty of copyright infringement. > Also, you might like to try to store "Debussy 1st Arabesque" (on the DMCS > disk) as a SMUS file and load it again. Look (and hear) the instrumentation > at bar 95. DMCS does a couple of things badly when it saves as SMUS. Triplets, quintulets, and cross-bar ties vanish... and repeats aren't saved as repeats, or duplicated if SMUS doesn't grok repeats. Also, of course, positional information and non-song info vanishes. That I can live with. > And if you think about it, do you really expect that a file of 2000 bytes > reproduces music faithfully which is stored in 20000 bytes as DMCS file? I expect it to faithfully retain the frequency, volume, instrument, and timing information. I don't care so much about playing styles, and I don't care at all about text, et al. Question: has anyone run across a better set of instruments than those that come with DMCS. It's only Rock & roll has a good set of extra ones, but the piano (the one I have a prticular gripe about) and other duplicated ones are identical. Oh well, at least it's better than Music Studio. -- -- Peter da Silva `-_-' ...!seismo!soma!uhnix1!sugar!peter (I said, NO PHOTOS!)