higgin@cbmvax.UUCP (Paul Higginbottom SALES) (07/09/87)
In article <8707081106.AA14611@unisoft.UNISOFT> doug@certes.UUCP writes:
$Wendy ("my name is NOT A-Squared!" but could've fooled me) says that the
$bottom line about why LIVE had so many problems is that: A-Squared designed
$it, and sold the manufacturing rights to Commodore, who then sat on it and
$apparently refused (?) to make and ship the d*mn things. A-Squared then
$worked for lo, these many months, to get the rights back. Never mind recent
$history; at least that partially explains ancient history. Perhaps everybody
$already knew all this, but it was news to me. (I still don't know why it
$was then transferred to GRAB after A-Squared was supposedly making it.)
I am not at liberty to discuss this matter in depth, but I would like you
all to remember that this represents ONE side of the story only, and that
you should not comment on this unless you know the whole story.
Let's all try to keep the traffic down :-)
Paul Higginbottomdoug@certes.UUCP (07/11/87)
Summary: LIVE-- enquiring minds want to know, and Commodore *does* seem to have a death wish (ack! Pournelle was right!) In article <8707081106.AA14611@unisoft.UNISOFT> doug@certes.UUCP writes: $ A-Squared designed $it, and sold the manufacturing rights to Commodore, who then sat on it and $apparently refused (?) to make and ship the d*mn things. In article <2086@cbmvax.UUCP> higgin@cbmvax.UUCP (Paul Higginbottom SALES) writes: >I am not at liberty to discuss this matter in depth, but I would like you >all to remember that this represents ONE side of the story only, and that >you should not comment on this unless you know the whole story. > Let's all try to keep the traffic down :-) Sorry, I don't buy this. I have been trying to find out what the story is, that's all. The LIVE digitizer is the most atrocious case of vaporware yet seen on the Amiga, always promised to be available Real Soon Now, but always encountering yet another delay. Most recently A-squared actually announced that they were taking orders, and passed out an 800 number for the purpose, but that was bogus too. I think that announcing vaporware is a dirty trick to play on people, and I think we all deserve an explanation. And an apology. I don't actually *expect* this, but it does seem to be called for. Considering that there are many, many people who are dying to buy one, and that it would fit very well into the "Amiga-as-desktop-video" marketing concept, I cannot understand why Commodore hasn't bent over backwards to get this thing on the streets long since. Besides a tremendous amount of lost revenues that could have come from the LIVE itself, there are certainly lost Amiga sales as well! Just based on the above obvious points, its clear that *someone* has been real stupid about this. A rude comment? In this case, simply the truth! Now, as for me passing on the rumor that Commodore was the one to blame, I fully intended to be provocative in the hopes of hearing the *other* side of the story. Perhaps for legal reasons you can't comment, and perhaps that's why A-Squared has been reluctant to comment as well. But that's not *our* problem. Our problem is *vaporware*. So it's just plain silly for you to say that people who don't know both sides of the story shouldn't say anything about it. The people who *do* know won't talk! Besides which, on reviewing my article, the *only* inaccuracy in it was my saying that Commodore "refused" to ship LIVE, and I put a question mark after that word. Everything else I said is just fact: A-Squared designed it and sold the rights to Commodore. Commodore did not ship it. A-Squared re-acquired the rights and then entered into an agreement with GRAB, but it still isn't shipping. Commodore has established a track record for lengthy delays, anyway, as witness the Genlock, Transformer 1.2, Sidecar, and U.S. sales of the 500 and 2000. This is both frustrating to us Amiga fans, and also costs Commodore a *lot* of lost revenues. Perhaps Rattigan is to blame for everything? Impossible...if so, he should have been fired much, much earlier. Since he wasn't, the blame for his actions must be shared by the Commodore board of directors, for *allowing* him to lose Commodore millions, perhaps tens of millions, of dollars. As I pointed out above, it is *stupid* for Commodore to have not shipped LIVE, regardless of the (mysterious & unknown) reason. Look at what the LaserWriter has done for the Mac! Doug Merritt ucbvax!unisoft!certes!doug
grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) (07/15/87)
In article <8707110358.AA14188@unisoft.UNISOFT> doug@certes.UUCP writes: > Summary: LIVE-- enquiring minds want to know, and Commodore *does* seem > to have a death wish (ack! Pournelle was right!) > > In article <8707081106.AA14611@unisoft.UNISOFT> doug@certes.UUCP writes: > $ A-Squared designed > $it, and sold the manufacturing rights to Commodore, who then sat on it and > $apparently refused (?) to make and ship the d*mn things. > > In article <2086@cbmvax.UUCP> higgin@cbmvax.UUCP (Paul Higginbottom SALES) writes: > >I am not at liberty to discuss this matter in depth, but I would like you > >all to remember that this represents ONE side of the story only, and that > >you should not comment on this unless you know the whole story. > > Let's all try to keep the traffic down :-) > > Sorry, I don't buy this. I have been trying to find out what the story is, > that's all. The LIVE digitizer is the most atrocious case of vaporware yet > seen on the Amiga, always promised to be available Real Soon Now, but always > encountering yet another delay. Most recently A-squared actually announced > that they were taking orders, and passed out an 800 number for the purpose, > but that was bogus too. I'm sorry if Paul's response was unsatisfactory or seemed abrasive, but it really isn't within the perogatives of the technical/support people from Commodore that post to usenet to posit theories about why management made some particular product decision. It is also less than appropriate to venture opinions on the product, now that we are no longer planning on marketing it, nor discuss the business prospects or character of A-squared or it's successors. This is not a particularly pleasant piece of evasiveness to post, but please try to understand our situation... -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {ihnp4|seismo|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: cbmvax!grr@seismo.css.GOV Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by m. f) Sr
perry@well.UUCP (Perry S. Kivolowitz) (07/15/87)
I have been privy to the CBM side of the Live thing. And the A*Squared side. And after a lot of discussions with A*Squared, I tend to believe the story CBM relayed. This discussion of ``who is to blame'' for lack of Live can be summed up very simply: 1) Assume there was no problem with Live. CBM's best interests would be served by getting the product out. A*Squared's best interests would served by getting the product out. The product is not out. This does not hold together. 2) Assume there were problems with Live. CBM's best interests would be served by not coming out with a flawed product. A*Squared's best interests would be served by blaming CBM keeping their own image intact. Sound familiar? ------- The above is observation and is merely hypothesis.
doug@certes.UUCP (07/18/87)
George Robbins recently wrote: >I'm sorry if Paul's response was unsatisfactory or seemed abrasive, but it >really isn't within the perogatives of the technical/support people from >Commodore that post to usenet to posit theories about why management made >some particular product decision. > ... >This is not a particularly pleasant piece of evasiveness to post, but please >try to understand our situation... That's fine, George, in fact I did understand that. Recall that I didn't demand that CBM respond...I posted a rumor that CBM seemed to be at fault, and Paul volunteered that he didn't think I should say anything about the subject. I won't hold it against him, but it is a patently ridiculous response. Although some may disagree, I *still* think that a really powerful CEO would have gotten a digitizer on the market come hell or high water, and if LIVE didn't fit the bill, a brand new one could've been designed from scratch with a few months. Since that didn't happen, there was a clear case of myopia in top management...somebody didn't notice how important a product it could be for launching the Amiga. So even if it was A-Squared's technical problems or something that caused the delay, I still fault CBM as well for not taking *care* of the problem. Passing the buck (by action, not verbally) is not good enough. Results count, and the Amiga market has lost revenues. (Note that when I say pass the buck, I'm not talking about assigning blame, which everyone has carefully avoided doing, I mean taking it upon oneself to get something done, regardless of problems.) Doug Merritt {ucbvax,sun}!unisoft!certes!doug