perry@well.UUCP (Perry S. Kivolowitz) (08/25/87)
Someone incorrectly posted ASDG's revised pricing on 8 megabyte boards. They said that our price had gone up $100 per megabyte. This is incorrect, 8 megabyte board pricing has gone up $100 per 2 megabytes. There are 16 chips in 2 meg. Our cost per chip has recently gone up 6 dollars per chip or 96 dollars for 2 meg. I hope no- one thinks we're trying to take additional profit from this situation. The availability of 1 megabit chips is also a problem right now but we've been succesful at locating the parts so all 8M or 8MI orders will be filled. We are also making 0K 8M and 8MI boards available to end users for the first time. Call us if you'd like more information on this. So, at this point I can tell you that the 23 dollars listed by Access Associates is a BARGAIN. Perry S. Kivolowitz ASDG Incorporated
mwm@eris.BERKELEY.EDU (Mike (My watch has windows) Meyer) (08/26/87)
In article <3817@well.UUCP> perry@well.UUCP (Perry S. Kivolowitz) writes:
<Someone incorrectly posted ASDG's revised pricing on 8 megabyte
<boards. They said that our price had gone up $100 per megabyte.
<This is incorrect, 8 megabyte board pricing has gone up $100
<per 2 megabytes.
That was me, and that was a typo. I should have said (and meant to
say, because I *knew* it) that the price was $100 per 2 megabytes.
Apologies to all for any confusion this may have created.
While I'm here, I'll also let everyone know that the reason that I
like the subwoofer better than the mini-rack + 8M/4 is that the
subwoofer comes in flavors that match the decor of the things around
it!
<mike
--
My feet are set for dancing, Mike Meyer
Won't you turn your music on. mwm@berkeley.edu
My heart is like a loaded gun, ucbvax!mwm
Won't you let the water run. mwm@ucbjade.BITNETspg@well.UUCP (08/27/87)
1 MB DRAMs for $23.00 from Access WAS a bargin. Unfortunately we are out of those DRAMs and like Perry said, the price has gone up about $6.00 to $8.00 IF you can find them. We haven't decided if it is currently worth it to purchase DRAMs at these prices. It isn't only the 1 MB DRAMs that have increased in price, the 256K DRAMs have gone from around $2.00 to about $3.00 also. What this means is that everyone making memory boards will have to raise their prices significantly. And this was done to protect American DRAM manufacturers (currently 1, Micron Technologies). Let's here it for FREE TRADE! Steve Grant Engineering Manager Access Associates
kim@amdahl.amdahl.com (Kim DeVaughn) (08/28/87)
In article <3831@well.UUCP>, spg@well.UUCP (Stephen P. Grant) writes: > > 1 MB DRAMs for $23.00 from Access WAS a bargin. Unfortunately we are out > of those DRAMs and like Perry said, the price has gone up about $6.00 to > $8.00 IF you can find them. > It isn't only the 1 MB DRAMs that have > increased in price, the 256K DRAMs have gone from around $2.00 to about > $3.00 also. What this means is that everyone making memory boards will > have to raise their prices significantly. And this was done to protect > American DRAM manufacturers (currently 1, Micron Technologies). Let's > here it for FREE TRADE! And give a big hand to Ronald "Ronnie the Rayguns" Reagan, our late dearly departed Secretary of Commerce, SEMA, our poor abused chip manufacturers, and a cast of thousands, while you're at it! Thanks for saving us from those mean, nasty, conniving folks in the East ... great to know you're *really* looking out for us! I sleep so well at nights now .... Did anyone really *believe* them when they said the cost to consumers would be "slight" ... 30% is *slight*!? Give me a break! "The best government, is no government at all." /kim [ Any thoughts or opinions which may or may not have been expressed ] [ herein are my own. They are not necessarily those of my employer. ] -- UUCP: kim@amdahl.amdahl.com or: {sun,decwrl,hplabs,pyramid,ihnp4,seismo,oliveb,cbosgd}!amdahl!kim DDD: 408-746-8462 USPS: Amdahl Corp. M/S 249, 1250 E. Arques Av, Sunnyvale, CA 94086 CIS: 76535,25
daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (08/28/87)
in article <3831@well.UUCP>, spg@well.UUCP (Stephen P. Grant) says: > Keywords: cost > What this means is that everyone making memory boards will > have to raise their prices significantly. And this was done to protect > American DRAM manufacturers (currently 1, Micron Technologies). Let's > here it for FREE TRADE! I'd be surprised if most hardware manufacturers didn't see think kind of thing coming a mile away. Unfortunately, the US Government doesn't really understand the issues all that well. The IC vendors are organized enough as a special interest to grab the government's attention. The significantly larger section of the US electronics industry that USES these parts (like yours and mine), isn't as well organized, apparently. So I guess we all know the advantages of getting organized. By the way, TI still makes DRAMs too. Though they claim they don't make any money on them, they just use the mass production of parts for perfecting the DRAM technology for use in more complicated parts. Funny, that's just what the Japanese claim to be doing. That tells me that anyone really trying to make big bucks on DRAMs alone is very foolish. Or should base themselves in the US and spend lots of cash on the IC industry lobbying efforts. > Steve Grant > Engineering Manager > Access Associates -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga Usenet: {ihnp4|caip|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh "The A2000 Guy" PLINK : D-DAVE H BIX : hazy "God, I wish I was sailing again" -Jimmy Buffett, Dave Haynie
bryce@COGSCI.BERKELEY.EDU (Bryce Nesbitt) (08/29/87)
In article <> dave@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) writes: > > By the way, TI still makes DRAMs too... I believe that you will find that TI makes (256K) DRAMS... in Japan. They then import them and stamp their little "Texas" picture on them. As far as I know Micron Technology of Boise Idaho is the only _volume_ US DRAM producer that survives. All the others have moved on to more profitable ventures, leaving the Japanese to make DRAM in peace. Or so it would seem... TI has sued several Japanese DRAM producers for patent violation. TI does appear to be using the DRAM as a "process driver" again. A "process driver" means that new technology and processes are tried out on the RAMS first, then moved into other products. I have heard rumors that as part of the fallout of the Japan <=> US trade games, AMD and others may start producing DRAM again. The US has ruled that the Japanese manufactures where selling DRAM to the United States at a loss. Instead of thanking the Japanese for their generosity :-) :-), a stiff import duty was added to incoming RAM. The duty varies from company to company and depends on how much our Government and the US DRAM producers thought that that company was undercharging us before. What really blows me away is that while bare chips are hit by the import duties, *completed assemblies* are not. If I assemble my N megabyte Amiga memory boards in the USA with US components, US PC boards and US labor it will cost *more* for the _chips_ than if I contract out to use Japanese components, Japanese PC boards and Japanese labor. Assuming that all the non-chip costs between the US and Japan balance out the win is to buy your rams in Japan. I presume that Commodore is *not* affected by the import duty because the RAMs are imported while inserted into PC boards. "Made in the USA with high quality Japanese parts" just won't cut it as an advertising slogan any more. :-) :-) BTW: Micron makes excellent ram chips, and hires pond-scum lawyers to do their marketing via the US Government. Tha's my opinion. "The USA has nearly 1 lawyer for every 365 people. That's one a day per person per year! In Japan the ratio is something like 1 to 9000. Obvious export possibilities..." -Stan Krute I told that to a pond-scum I mistakenly hired once. Seems he got offended. Can you imagine that? :-) ----- |\ /| . Ack! (NAK, EOT, SOH) {o O} . ( " ) bryce@cogsci.berkeley.EDU -or- ucbvax!cogsci!bryce U "Success leads to stagnation; stagnation leads to failure."
keithd@cadovax.UUCP (08/30/87)
In article <8708290953.AA14970@cogsci.berkeley.edu> bryce@COGSCI.BERKELEY.EDU (Bryce Nesbitt) writes: >I have heard rumors that as part of the fallout of the Japan <=> US trade >games, AMD and others may start producing DRAM again. This would seem to be a totally stupid move. They gear up for making DRAMs and then a year from now a president decides to lift the embargo, and they all of a sudden have to compete with the Japanese again. Though I guess if that's the kind of brains AMD has, they deserve what they get, huh? >The US has ruled that the Japanese manufactures where selling DRAM to the >United States at a loss. Instead of thanking the Japanese for their >generosity :-) :-), a stiff import duty was added to incoming RAM. Which has probably done more harm to American companies than Japanese ones. Tendency to view the import duty as 'protection' for US companies would seem to be misguided, as the short-termness of that move, (wasn't it supposed to last only 1 year or something anyway?) seems almost assured. It was only supposed to be a 'penalty' against the Japanese for dumping I believe, not an umbrella for US companies who might decide to get back into the DRAM business. Besides, isn't there something know as a 'loss leader' or something like that, where a store might sell something for less than it cost them, just to get people into the store to buy other stuff? Kind of an advertising expense. You know, free giveaways, contests, etc. For example, I've always thought that computer stores were stupid not to sell blank disks at cost, because it will keep people coming into the store to buy blanks and maybe buy other stuff while they're there. But NO, computer stores tend to sell blanks at list price, so as soon as you get your hardware, you may never go back to that store because you'll be buying your disks and software at discount houses instead of at the computer store. DUMB. If the computer store can't interest you into going into the store after you've got your hardware, you sure aren't going to be buying anything else from them. Now let's say a computer store decided to actually sell blank disks for a little less than they paid for them to REALLY cause a feeding frenzy and get people into their store. Would a neighboring store that sold primarily blank disks have a case against them for 'dumping'? What if one store had the budget for a big contest of some sort with big prize money. Would a neighboring store have a case against them because they had a bigger budget for a contest than the neighboring store could afford? Keith Doyle # {ucbvax,decvax}!trwrb!cadovax!keithd Contel Business Systems 213-323-8170
daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (09/01/87)
in article <8708290953.AA14970@cogsci.berkeley.edu>, bryce@COGSCI.BERKELEY.EDU (Bryce Nesbitt) says: > Keywords: cost > > In article <> dave@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) writes: >> >> By the way, TI still makes DRAMs too... > > I believe that you will find that TI makes (256K) DRAMS... in Japan. They > then import them and stamp their little "Texas" picture on them. Actually, TI makes quite a few of their 256K DRAMs in Singapore. So do many of the Japanese, since it's more expensive to make the no-profit items in Japan. All the "TI" label implies is that the part was made somewhere in the world by TI or a company controlled by TI. It's not like they're buying DRAM from NEC and then stamping the TI name on it. After all, they do learn from making the parts, even if they don't profit from them in cash terms. > As far as I know Micron Technology of Boise Idaho is the only _volume_ US > DRAM producer that survives. I've got a Micron 64K part here that was made in Korea. I don't know, maybe they make their 256K parts in the US, maybe not. The one thing for certain, Micron is the only US based DRAM producer that expects to make a living at DRAM production. Perhaps the only one outside of Korea, maybe, that expects this (I think the Koreans can still turn a profit on DRAM, but that probably won't last long). > TI has sued several Japanese DRAM producers for patent violation. TI does > appear to be using the DRAM as a "process driver" again. A "process > driver" means that new technology and processes are tried out on the RAMS > first, then moved into other products. Every Japanese company does the same thing. Perhaps with TI patents :-), but otherwise, just the same. > I have heard rumors that as part of the fallout of the Japan <=> US trade > games, AMD and others may start producing DRAM again. I don't know, I suppose if DRAM prices rise again, others may get into the act. I'd expect someone like AMD to move in with extremely fast RAM in high densities to support something like, I dunno, maybe a high-speed RISC machine like the AMD29000. The faster bus cycle isn't going to help if you can't run your memory that fast. And it's going to hurt if you're stuck with low density static devices. > What really blows me away is that while bare chips are hit by the import > duties, *completed assemblies* are not. If I assemble my N megabyte Amiga > memory boards in the USA with US components, US PC boards and US labor it > will cost *more* for the _chips_ than if I contract out to use Japanese > components, Japanese PC boards and Japanese labor. Actually, considering the cost of doing anything in Japan these days, you're probably OK building in Japan, but not all that much better. Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Korea are the places of choice these days for manufacturing. But what do you expect. The duties are a POLITICAL solution to a problem that they believe exists due to the lobbying efforts of the IC industry. No one in the position to really understand the situation is in the position to do anything politically about it, if there even were a valid political solution. In this case, laws enacted to please the IC industry can very certainly hurt the board manufacturers, and perhaps drive even more to build out of the US. > BTW: Micron makes excellent ram chips, and hires pond-scum lawyers to do > their marketing via the US Government. Tha's my opinion. Actually, the Micron parts I've dealt with were substandard. Their standard 64K parts were too slow to use on the C128, while their "A" parts were OK, but generally slower than other parts from other vendors. > "The USA has nearly 1 lawyer for every 365 people. That's one a day per > person per year! In Japan the ratio is something like 1 to 9000. Obvious > export possibilities..." > -Stan Krute Now there's an idea. > ----- > |\ /| . Ack! (NAK, EOT, SOH) > {o O} . > ( " ) bryce@cogsci.berkeley.EDU -or- ucbvax!cogsci!bryce > U "Success leads to stagnation; stagnation leads to failure." -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga Usenet: {ihnp4|caip|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh "The A2000 Guy" PLINK : D-DAVE H BIX : hazy "God, I wish I was sailing again" -Jimmy Buffett