[comp.sys.amiga] Vote Result on Resource Tracking

glee@cognos.uucp (Godfrey Lee) (09/17/87)

Well, the odd vote still trickles in, but here is the result so far:

	"Do you want Commodore to add resource tracking into the next release of
	 the operating system, even to the exclusion of something else?"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Strong "yes", as categorized by the presence of "!", such as "YES!!!":
	11

  "Yes":
	7

  Qualified "yes", "depends on what else gets excluded":
	1

  Other, such as "no":
	0
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

So I guess it is unanimous.

	Commodore, put resource tracking into 1.3, pretty please?
-- 
Godfrey Lee                                      P.O. Box 9707
Cognos Incorporated                              3755 Riverside Dr.
VOICE:  (613) 738-1440   FAX: (613) 738-0002     Ottawa, Ontario
UUCP: decvax!utzoo!dciem!nrcaer!cognos!glee      CANADA  K1G 3Z4

ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) (09/22/87)

In article <1449@tao.UUCP> glee@cognos.uucp (Godfrey Lee) writes:
>Well, the odd vote still trickles in, but here is the result so far:
>	"Do you want Commodore to add resource tracking into the next release of
>	 the operating system, even to the exclusion of something else?"
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Strong "yes", as categorized by the presence of "!", such as "YES!!!":
>	11
>  "Yes":
>	7
>  Qualified "yes", "depends on what else gets excluded":
>	1
>  Other, such as "no":
>	0
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>So I guess it is unanimous.
>
	No, it isn't.  I tried mailing you a "no", but the mailer bounced
it.

	My response to the question, as phrased, is no.  Why?  Because I can
see no way to integrate robust resource tracking into the current OS
architecture without causing MAXINT headaches, as well as breaking nearly
everything in sight.

	Now then, I said, "as phrased."  What that means is that, yes, I'd
like to have resource tracking.  But not at the expense of breaking
everything else.

	What I would like to see is a *totally new* kickstart (2.0?).  I
want this Kickstart to have resource tracking, as well as a DOS free of
BPTR's, with a real fork() (or at least vfork()) call, OS support for an MMU
whether it's present or not, and a few other goodies.

	Naturally, this would represent a major software change for
everyone.  This actually can be viewed as an advantage, since all developers
will be aware that all the rules have changed.  When the new OS becomes
available, developer's products will take full advantage of them, and there
won't be any of this "lame duck" code hanging around in the OS ROMs.

	Of course, the probability of this actually happening is only
slightly higher than winning the Publisher's Clearing House Giveaway.

_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
Leo L. Schwab -- The Guy in The Cape	ihnp4!ptsfa -\
 \_ -_	 Bike shrunk by popular demand,	      dual ---> !{well,unicom}!ewhac
O----^o	 But it's still the only way to fly.  hplabs / (pronounced "AE-wack")
"Work FOR?  I don't work FOR anybody!  I'm just having fun."  -- The Doctor

perry@atux01.UUCP (09/22/87)

Resource tracking on the Amiga is a bogus concession to bogus programmers.
The Amiga is the way it is.  Learn to live with it. Adding resource track-
ing would be a major hack and  slash  job  and certainly never produce any
thing any good (or backwardly compatible).

A much more effective  proposal  would  be  along  the lines of what Chuck
(mcmannis) suggested. A standard set of Remote Control Message primitives.
This has the benefit of being implemented completely outside the operating
system which means  all  code  will continue to work with or with out this
facility.

This remote  control  capability  is trivial to implement, I've done it in
FaccII. Forget  this  resource  tracking nonsense. Let's get on with some-
thing more feasible, more flexible,  and certainly more elegant instead of
trying to wedge all sorts of crap  into the o.s. to help lazy programmers.

(Chuck, I will participate  in  a Remote Control Standards Committee, call
me to arrange it (201) 563-0529))

Perry Kivolowitz - ASDG Incorporated - (201) 563-0529

peter@sugar.UUCP (Peter da Silva) (09/25/87)

> [we need a standard message port for doing things like... and killing
> programs]

Yes, we need a standard message port that programs look at. What are our
choices? Well, IDCMP is out, 'cos not all programs open windows. And of
course Intuition doesn't like you IDCMPing behins its back.

How about agreeing to use the task message port? All programs already have
one of these? If not, why not?

BUT... don't expect this message port to solve the "killing wedged program"
problem. Wedged programs are usually wedged because they're in an infinite
loop somewhere and not looking at their message port. A better solution is
to agree to stick your cleanup routine in the entry in the task structure
for this purpose. To kill a program you call this routine in the program's
context. Badly behaved programs will just have the default RemTask here, but
at least they won't be soaking up CPU time anymore. Well behaved ones will
clean up almost everything and go away. You'll be no worse off, and maybe
better off.
-- 
-- Peter da Silva `-_-' ...!hoptoad!academ!uhnix1!sugar!peter
--                 'U`  Have you hugged your wolf today?
-- Disclaimer: These aren't mere opinions... these are *values*.