rminnich@udel.EDU (Ron Minnich) (09/22/87)
I just saw them in amazing computing for $500. IMpossible to pass up. ANybody bought one of these, had any luck? ANy dealers in the Phila. area selling them? Can i drive to the C= factory and just buy one (heck , i am only .5 hr away!). Any information/experience appreciated. Probably email is best, unless you think the world should know. ron P.S. ALso anybody who knows where to get 4464s real cheap. -- ron (rminnich@udel.edu)
c9c-am@dorothy.Berkeley.EDU (M David Green) (09/23/87)
To answer your question, yes, someone out there did get a reconditioned Amiga
A1000 once. Back in October of '86 I bought mine for $750 including the
1080 monitor and have had no reason to regret it. I had heard recently
that Commodore was trying to arrest the sale of these reconditioned units
because they were going to cut into sales of the new A500, but with the
trade in policy the way it is, I think that the issue of selling these units
will become less important than that of old A1000's eating into sales of
the A500. Then again, the market seems to look pretty good for the A500
considering how Commodore is offering those great software deals.
On the issue of the software packages for the A500, I got my flyer in
the mail a few weeks ago and it had an area on it for changing the name
and mailing address of the orderer from that on the mailing label. I
would take this to mean that these offers can be shared with non-C=64
users who want to buy the A500 as well--with or without financial
arrangements?
Zill*ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) (09/26/87)
In article <1767@crash.CTS.COM> amiguy@pnet01.CTS.COM (Sean Wolfe) writes: > Now that the 1000's will be getting cheaper, this will allow the C64 scum to >buy them. [...] I mean the kids (eg 13-17 years) who do nothing but pirate >software [...] Every software pirate would add his name to the program >like "Cracked by blah, blah...." You and me both. This possibility occurred to me, too. As a 64 owner (no, I haven't thrown it away yet), I used to grab stuff, too, if it was offered to me. I also used to know a few people who did this out of hand i.e. cracking programs, putting their own coverpage on it, and tossing out there. You have to admit, some of them were pretty creative. One that sticks out in my mind was a pirate version of C64 PacMan. The pirate's coverpage came up, then a message appeared saying, "Say, don't you have anything better to do than sit there and play PacMan?" >This I think crippled the software industry for the C64. No disrespect intended, but I believe you know not whereof you speak. There are *TONS* of 64's out there. Software companies to this day will release a version of a program for the PC and the 64 first, then move on to other version, if sales on those two versions justify the expense of porting the program. This is why you haven't seen M.U.L.E. for the Amiga yet. EA doesn't think it's worth the effort. >I hope these types of people don't move in to the Amiga community. >I wasn't so "honest" about <C>right's myself back then, but having an >Amiga has made me realize how important it is to support the industry [...] You and me both, again. Not to mention the fact that some of the people writing these programs are now my personal friends. I see the work they put into it. I want to see them rewarded. So I buy it. BTW, I wouldn't worry too much about the immature computer population yet. The A500 is still just expensive enough that the purchaser has to stop and think about it, and come to a rational decision. The immature people will, out of reflex, avoid the system until they can buy it with their grocery money. _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Leo L. Schwab -- The Guy in The Cape ihnp4!ptsfa -\ \_ -_ Recumbent Bikes: dual ---> !{well,unicom}!ewhac O----^o The Only Way To Fly. hplabs / (pronounced "AE-wack") "Work FOR? I don't work FOR anybody! I'm just having fun." -- The Doctor
spencer@eris.BERKELEY.EDU (Randy Spencer) (09/28/87)
In article <4044@well.UUCP> ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) writes: >In article <1767@crash.CTS.COM> amiguy@pnet01.CTS.COM (Sean Wolfe) writes: >> Now that the 1000's will be getting cheaper, this will allow the C64 scum to >>buy them. [...] I mean the kids (eg 13-17 years) who do nothing but pirate > >>I hope these types of people don't move in to the Amiga community. >>I wasn't so "honest" about <C>right's myself back then, but having an >>Amiga has made me realize how important it is to support the industry [...] > I don't get it. Here we are, a LARGE collection of individuals, who, for several years there, owned a 64 and PIRATED our little hearts out (Sorry, I don't mean "pirated", I should have said "Collected Software":'). Then we get Amigas, and suddenly we are the stanchest people about copying disks. Nobody does it on the Amiga (and admidts it). I want a psychologist to examine the phenominine (Damn, why doesn't VT100 have a built in spell checker?:) Wouldn't it be funny if it turned out that when people moved to the Amiga they remembed how many disks it had taken to keep up on the 64 and decided they couldn't?!? Well, there are alot of strange things about the people who buy Amigas. They Band together more than most computer users They are addicted to the machine and try to convert others They can't seem to communicate exectly "Why" the machine is better than all the others out there, they just know that it is They love the machine even though *no one* has yet to come out with any professional software for it. They tend to be programmers or hackers Well, now that Commodore/NotAmiga has released the "Mass Market" version of the Amiga (The C64 of the 90's), will that magic still be there? Will it convert the vilest of those "First Generation" computer owners also. (By "vilest" I mean, they were like we were, stealing software and all, and then we grew up, and they had to wait for C64 version of the Amiga, like they will feel more at home there, oh, boy). But, I am bringing down the tone of this newsgroup, maybe it is the high cheer and the contributions that make this machine the magic that it is. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Randy Spencer P.O. Box 4542 Berkeley CA 94704 (415)284-4740 I N F I N I T Y BBS: (415)283-5469 Now working for |||||||||||::::... . . BUD-LINX But in no way |||||||||||||||::::.. .. . Officially representing ||||||||||||:::::... .. ....ucbvax!mica!spencer s o f t w a r e spencer@mica.berkeley.edu -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
higgin@cbmvax.UUCP (Paul Higginbottom SALES) (09/28/87)
in article <518@louie.udel.EDU>, rminnich@udel.EDU (Ron Minnich) says: > Can i drive to the C= factory and just > buy one (heck , i am only .5 hr away!). > ron (rminnich@udel.edu) NO. Commodore does not sell from the factory. Sorry. Paul.
cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (09/28/87)
In article <5244@jade.BERKELEY.EDU>, (Randy Spencer) writes: > I don't get it. Here we are, a LARGE collection of individuals, who, for > several years there, owned a 64 and PIRATED our little hearts out (Sorry, > I don't mean "pirated", I should have said "Collected Software":'). Where do you get this 'we' stuff paleface? :-) I went from the S-100 world to the Amiga world and never stopped of in C64 land! Anyway, I think that two things are changing. One, more regular people understand why it is a bad thing to pirate software. A friend of mine used PC-Write for a year and then forked over $200 for Microsoft Word 3.0. Why I asked? "Because," she said, "I've seen how much support $75 bought me, versus the $200 Microsoft charges, and I can get my questions answered by Microsoft." This represents at least some understanding that what most software publishers are selling is not an overpriced floppy disk, rather it is a service, where half the service resides on the disk and the other half is still back at the publisher. They have no motivation to pirate software because they want that other half. Second, manufacturers are realizing that investing in copy protection is simply making cracker's lives more fun (more challenges you see) and their support peoples lives less fun. Let me relate a short conversation I had with a company of a well liked game. Me: "Hi, my game disk just died it can't read anymore." Them: "Oh, thats the copy protection, your running an original arent you?" Me: "Of course, and it wont boot." Them: "Ok, send it back with $10 and we will replace the disk." Me: "How about if you replace it and I keep the $10." Them: "But there is a handling fee!" Me: "Well if you hadn't copy protected the disk I would have been using a backup and would not be calling you. Since it's your fault that I can't back it up it's also your responsibility to keep it working." Them: (Sound of coffee being sent through nose) "That's the most preposterous thing I ever heard." Me: "Well, you think about it, and then ask yourself if it is the most preposterous thing a lawyer or the Attorney General ever heard." Them: (pause) "What's your name again? Did you send in your registration card?" Me: "Of course I sent my card in, I get fliers from you every quarter about all of the wonderful MSDOS games your writing." Them: "Send it back to my attention, I'll see what I can do." While it is not clear that I could have really sued these people I was ready to try. I will probably also send a letter to my congress critter to see if we can make a law that states what I said above about responsibility for maintenence. > [stuff deleted about how Amiga owners are different] > Well, there are alot of strange things about the people who buy Amigas. > They Band together more than most computer users No more than the Mac users did at the outset. Ever notice how similar Commodore and Apple are in this regard? Both companies were running on an outdated by extremely successful 8 bit line, and then they brought out an advanced 16 bit machine which attracted a lot of excited programmers? If your listening Commodore you can skip the C64-GS. > They are addicted to the machine and try to convert others All computer users do this to a greater or lesser extent. > They can't seem to communicate exectly "Why" the machine is better > than all the others out there, they just know that it is Some of us can :-) But thats another message in a non-existent newsgroup. > They love the machine even though *no one* has yet to come out with > any professional software for it. I disagree, Word Perfect, MaxiPlan Plus, Aegis Draw+, DP II. These are all 'professional' software packages. > They tend to be programmers or hackers The first ones certainly, early adopters always are (even for the IBM PC) Lets see the mix on the next 300,000 before we generalize. > Well, now that Commodore/NotAmiga has released the "Mass Market" > version of the Amiga (The C64 of the 90's), will that magic still be > there? Will it convert the vilest of those "First Generation" > computer owners also. (By "vilest" I mean, they were like we were, > stealing software and all, and then we grew up, and they had to wait > for C64 version of the Amiga, like they will feel more at home there, > oh, boy). A couple of pirates (some even on this net! :-)) Were so excited about the challenge of programming the darn thing that the challenge of breaking CP paled by comparison. It is apparent that more than a few have been turned away from the "dark side" of the force. But in anycase a percentage of the user base will be pirates, and that number goes up with the expanding user base. So chances are you'll meet a few, the best defense when one of these budding crackers shows you how easily they 'cracked' the latest game, is to show them "The Dream Goes Berserk" or Bspline and say "Yeah, cracking stuff is easy, even 9 yr olds can do that, but can you do THIS?!" The user community of the Amiga isn't impressed by crackers, and thats what the game is all about, egos. Every time you're more impressed by Leo's hacks than with breaking a new CP scheme you add incentive to create. --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
ewhac@well.UUCP (09/30/87)
In article <29305@sun.uucp> cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) writes: >So chances are you'll meet a few, the best defense when one of these >budding crackers shows you how easily they 'cracked' the latest game, is >to show them "The Dream Goes Berserk" or Bspline and say "Yeah, cracking >stuff is easy, even 9 yr olds can do that, but can you do THIS?!" > Hummm. That's interesting. Animations are cake as far as I'm concerned, but I gave up on cracking software long ago. It was beyond me. >Every time you're more impressed by Leo's >hacks than with breaking a new CP scheme you add incentive to create. > Thank you. That makes me feel good. _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Leo L. Schwab -- The Guy in The Cape ihnp4!ptsfa -\ \_ -_ Recumbent Bikes: dual ---> !{well,unicom}!ewhac O----^o The Only Way To Fly. hplabs / (pronounced "AE-wack") "Work FOR? I don't work FOR anybody! I'm just having fun." -- The Doctor
peter@sugar.UUCP (Peter da Silva) (10/01/87)
> [why are ex=C=64 owners so protective of copyrights when they were so > lax in their C=64 days?] Perhaps because most are no longer minors, and therefore may be held responsible for their actions. -- -- Peter da Silva `-_-' ...!hoptoad!academ!uhnix1!sugar!peter -- Disclaimer: These U aren't mere opinions... these are *values*.