[comp.sys.amiga] Yet more A1000->A2000 upgrade questions

higgin@cbmvax.UUCP (Paul Higginbottom SALES) (09/28/87)

References:

Distribution:


I'm trying to be patient about the questions I'm receiving
through electronic mail, but it seems that people don't read
what I've been posting.  The questions posted below are "as
received" through the mail.

Q: How much can we expect to pay for the upgrade?

A: You give your A1000 plus $1000 to a participating dealer, and
[s]he in return will give you an A2000.

Some dealers are "re-wording" this in terms of the A1000 being a
discount from the A2000's standard list price, and sometimes
discounting that too, and sometimes offering you the chance to
"buy back" the A1000 also.  The "deviations" from our guidelines
are NOT part of our policy, but obviously dealers are free to do
whatever they like.

Q: Are there dealers here in Hawaii that are providing this upgrade?

A: This kind of questions amazes me.  It assumes I know everyone of
our dealers PERSONALLY.  We mail the sales programs to the dealers.
They are usually free to participate in whatever ones they choose.
So in short, I don't know - call a few, starting with the one you
bought your machine from if [s]he's still local.

Q: I had an extra 1Mb of memory installed internally (I believe
it was put on the motherboard).  Will this invalidate the offer?

A: This is up to the dealer.  It seems as if it would make the
machine more attractive to the dealer, but whether they will
give you any additional discount for the additional memory will
again, be up to them.

Q: What is the time limit (if any) of the upgrade offer?

A: I'm VERY GLAD THIS WAS ASKED.  The offer currently ENDS October 31,
1987.

[This next question is long and contains many parts despite the
author starting with "I got a question..." :-) but I think they
might be echoing some common sentiments.  So I will insert MY
comments in '[', ']' throughout the "question".]

Q: I got a question on this transaction...  First, most of us in the
beginning of this amiga success paid the full $1800.00 for the A1000
because we felt that the A1000 will become a big success and wont be
extinct.

[I don't know that anyone paid $1800 for the A1000 ALONE.  The original
SUGGESTED LIST was $1295, and the monitor $495, which TOGETHER would
be close to $1800, so if that's what you bought, let's get it straight...
you paid ~$1300 for the A1000, and have a monitor that you can STILL
USE on any new Amiga you might wish to buy.]

Q (cont): Now that CBM is on its feet again.. they want to dump the
A1000 and support the two newer one's A500 and A2000.

[The MARKETPLACE is determining this.  If all three Amigas were on
the market, there would be too much overlap, and the customer would
probably be confused.  Even that's not the point.  Most dealers
don't want to carry THREE Amiga brand computers.  The
A500 and A2000 products are possible because of 2 years of research
and development after the A1000 was launched, and therefore, if the
A1000 were to remain on the market, it would have to be changed
anyway.  Those changes, if you think about it, would result in an
A500 in an A1000 case.  This would not distance it enough from
the other two Amigas to make sense.]

Q (cont): Most of us A1000 owners can't afford to dish out
another 1G for the A2000 and also to trash the 256 expansion ($100
bucks) because it won't work for the A2000.

[What more can we do?  We've made a GOOD OFFER to upgrade.  Did IBM
make such an offer to its millions of current PC users when it
launched the PS/2 line?  Would you rather we didn't try to release any
new products?  How long do you think we'd last in such a volatile
market?  Last but not least, it's not as if the Amiga computer models
are incompatible with eachother - the release our new Amiga models will
spur on greater software development, which is good news for owners
of any Amiga computer.]

Q (cont) [the real question, I think]: My beef is that why all
the fuss on the A500 ? So it cost under 1G. But it is so tightly fit
that it is not really expandible ( get A2000, right ?).

[I don't know what you mean.  The A500 has a port that is similar to
the A1000's expansion port, so I would weigh the expansion possibilities
to be about the same.  The "fuss" is that while in terms of features
the A500 might not represent a technological quantum leap over the A1000,
it is better suited to a wider audience.  Lower price, no need for
Kickstart diskettes, compact unit, keyboard similar to many other popular
formats, twice as much basic memory, and trivial expansion to get to
1Mb.]

Q (cont): Why not have commercials for all THREE amigas and let the
comsumers decide. Not only will there be an assorted number of consumers
with there own price ranges to buy an amiga, but also all three amigas
can still live(especially the A1000).

[For all the reasons stated above.  Distribution, market overlap,
pricing, competition.]

Q (cont): To make a long story short???!!!

[ :-) ]

Q (cont): I prefer the A1000 because I and many many A1000 owners own
software that only accessible to kickstart V1.1 and crashes on the V1.2.

[So now we find out the real problem.  You and many many others could
contact the software companies who create such products and see if
perhaps they could create a product you could upgrade to that will
run under 1.2.]

Q (cont): Although the A2000 have great adv's like a neat keyboard
connected to the front!!! the expansion ports and the overall design...
(nice!!) BUT I and only a handfull of us feel that the op sys should
be software rather than hardware.

[There are reasons, I grant you, why a soft o.s is nice, but since
we wish to widen the appeal of our Amiga line, the ROM decision made
sense.  Plus, as we all know, there are so many ways to extend
the o.s AFTER booting anyway, that ROM hasn't ended future
expansion, and if major changes come, ROMs can be changed.]


	Regards to all,


	Paul Higginbottom
	Sales Support Manager

hah@mipon3.intel.com (Hans Hansen) (10/02/87)

In article <2398@cbmvax.UUCP> higgin@cbmvax.UUCP (Paul Higginbottom SALES) writes:
>I'm trying to be patient about the questions I'm receiving
>through electronic mail, but it seems that people don't read
>what I've been posting.  The questions posted below are "as
>received" through the mail.
>
>Q (cont): Now that CBM is on its feet again.. they want to dump the
>A1000 and support the two newer one's A500 and A2000.
>
>[The MARKETPLACE is determining this.

Commodore Marketing NOT the market place is KILLING the A1000 !  Just so YOU
get it straight ! ...

>  If all three Amigas were on
>the market, there would be too much overlap, and the customer would
>probably be confused.

Don't you mean that Commodore Marketing would be confused ?!  Commodore
Marketing has NEVER identified the/a market for the Amiga.  Instead of
aggressively attacking the business $$$ world, with the best business
computer for the buck in the world, you have floundered with MORONIC,
STUPID, and INEPT commercials and ads !  If you had used 10% of the
wasted ad monies to bring to market IBM compatable business software,
READ 680x0 NATIVE CODE THAT CAN READ AND WRITE ibm FORMATTED DISKS 
(BOTH 3.5 AND 5.25 INCH) AND AMIGA FORMATTED DISKS, at the Amiga's debut
in New York there would be over 1 million Amiga 1000s in the world today!

I   D O N ' T   W A N T   A N   i b m   C O M P U T E R,   W H A T   I
D O   W A N T   I S   T O   B E   A B L E   T O   R U N   T H E   S A M E
P R O G R A M S   I N   N A T I V E   A M I G A   6 8 0 X 0   T H A T   I
U S E   I N   M Y   W O R K   P L A C E   O N   i b m   C L O N E S !!!
I   W A N T   T O   B E   A B L E   T O   T A K E   M Y   W O R K
D A T A   D I S K S   A N D   U S E   E I T H E R   M Y   A M I G A   O R
T H A T   O T H E R   C O M P U T E R !   T H E   A M I G A   H A S   T H E
A B I L I T Y   T O   D O   E V E R Y T H I N G   T H A T   I   H A V E
D E S C R I B E D ... W H Y   D O   I   S T I L L   N E E D   T O   U S E
T H E   O T H E R   G U Y S   C O M P U T E R   T O   D O   M Y   W O R K ??
T H E   A / B 2 0 0 0   I S   n o t   T H E   A N S W E R !   C O M M O D O R E
H A S   W A S T E D   M I L L I O N S   D E V E L O P I N G   A N   i b m
H A R D W A R E   C L O N E !   W H E R E   A R E   l o t u s 1 2 3,
d b a s e I I / I I I,   s y m p h o n y,   m s - w o r d,   m s
p r o j e c t,   f r a m e w o r k   I I,   w o r d s t a r,   r : b a s e
5 0 0 0,   e t c ,   T H A T   R U N   U N D E R   'E X E C'   A M I G A
N A T I V E ?  I   W I L L   N E V E R   B E   A B L E   T O   R E P L A C E
T H A T   O T H E R   C O M P U T E R   O N   M Y   D E S K   A T   W O R K
W I T H   A N   A M I G A   U N T I L   T H E S E   P R O G R A M S   R U N
N A T I V E   O N   T H E   A M I G A !

The Amiga is not a toy, what it is is a business computer that can emulate
a toy!  It is a business computer that can be used for anything a creative
programmer can envision.  It IS a BUSINESS COMPUTER that hackers love to
hack on!  IT IS A BUSINESS COMPUTER without any business software !!!!!

>  Even that's not the point.  Most dealers
>don't want to carry THREE Amiga brand computers.

Stores will carry anything that sells!

>  The
>A500 and A2000 products are possible because of 2 years of research
>and development after the A1000 was launched, and therefore, if the
>A1000 were to remain on the market, it would have to be changed
>anyway.

What are you talking about??  The A1000 has a FEATURE  ***  YES A REAL
FEATURE  ***  that the others don't have.  Commodore Marketing has
never understood the potential of the WRITEABLE CONTROL STORE !  The
ability to upgrade my 'firmware' by using a different boot disk is so
far superior to tearing my Amiga apart and replacing ROMs that I will
never, except under extream duress, replace the WCS with ROMs!  I'm
not saying this because I'm not a hardware hacker or afraid to open
up my box,  I was one of the Engineering techs at Amiga and also
finished the GenRad 2275 ATE test suite for the Zorro board.

>  Those changes, if you think about it, would result in an
>A500 in an A1000 case.

YUCK !

>Q (cont): Most of us A1000 owners can't afford to dish out
>another 1G for the A2000 and also to trash the 256 expansion ($100
>bucks) because it won't work for the A2000.
>[What more can we do?

GLAD you asked!  What you could have done is created a connector for
that board that could then be configured as 'FAST RAM' or a WCS!

>
>   We've made a GOOD OFFER to upgrade.  Did IBM
>make such an offer to its millions of current PC users when it
>launched the PS/2 line?  Would you rather we didn't try to release any
>new products?
>

What NEW product?  You have repackaged the A1000 and stripped out a
very valuable piece of hardware.  Oh I guess you are refering to the
clock circuit (A500)  or maybe you are refering to the 1000w power
supply in the A2000, for surely can't be refering to the A2000 IBM
clone sockets!??  I can buy 3 PC clones for the price of one A2000 !

Where is the PRICE/PERFORMANCE improvement?  Neither the A500 or the
A2000 offers any performance improvements.  What you have done is take
functionality out of both the A500 and the A2000, no WCS, no NTSC color
signals.  The only real improvement is the keyboard, I tried to get
Amiga engineering to use the DEC VT100 keyboard layout in 1984!

I have NOT seen anything worthwhile come out of Commodore sinse the bean
counters let the best HW/SW design team in Silicon Valley or maybe the
world, slip away.

>  How long do you think we'd last in such a volatile market?

A better question is where could Commodore have been today if its
Marketing group had had its head screwed on in 1985???

>  Last but not least, it's not as if the Amiga computer models
>are incompatible with eachother -

The jury is still out on that issue.

>[So now we find out the real problem.  You and many many others could
>contact the software companies who create such products and see if
>perhaps they could create a product you could upgrade to that will
>run under 1.2.]

This is NOT a consumer issue but rather a Commodore Marketing issue!
Commodore, during their regression testing, uh youse guys did do
regression testing didn't you, should know which of the commercial
programe failed to run under 1.2.  What has Commodore Marketing done
to have the broken programs upgraded to run under 1.2/1.3/2.0?

Individual software buyers mostly, 90%, only talk to their retailers.
The retailers have no real insentive to ask the software houses to
upgrade their down level programs... no immediate sale.

>[There are reasons, I grant you, why a soft o.s is nice, but since
>we wish to widen the appeal of our Amiga line, the ROM decision made
>sense.

Not to me !

>  Plus, as we all know, there are so many ways to extend
>the o.s AFTER booting anyway, that ROM hasn't ended future
>expansion, and if major changes come, ROMs can be changed.]

Not as easily as disks.

>
>	Regards to all,
>
>
>	Paul Higginbottom
>	Sales Support Manager

Hans Hansen
ATE Test Development Coordinator
GP7SM  --  one more super whizzy from the company that started it all.

These be my words and no one elses.  I speak for me, Intel hires firms
to speak for it, I ain't a firm.

miket@masscomp.UUCP (Mike Truax) (10/05/87)

In article <2398@cbmvax.UUCP> higgin@cbmvax.UUCP (Paul Higginbottom SALES) writes:

bunch of reply's to multiple questions

>A1000 were to remain on the market, it would have to be changed
>anyway.  Those changes, if you think about it, would result in an
>A500 in an A1000 case.  This would not distance it enough from
>the other two Amigas to make sense.]
>
>	Regards to all,
>
>
>	Paul Higginbottom
>	Sales Support Manager

What about that idea. An A500 in a A1000 case, or at least as as low cost
option. I know the problem of stocking two different parts (A500-case, 
and A500->A1000 upgrade(option)case can pose , but there must be A1000 case's
still around. Doesn't the 128D system now use a version of this case with
a 5-1/4" drive instead. Then all you need to do is plug in a
A2000(option)keyboard. Yea , Yea i like it |-)

The bottom line is this: I don't own an amiga yet and would like to get one
in the immidiate -> near future. From being a C64 user from years gone by
i ended up not liking the idea of not having a detachable keyboard, cables
running half way across your desk if you pull the keyboard out any, ect...
ect... ect. (this is where the , soooo buy a A2000 comes in ) but my piggy
bank is big enough or i would.

Any how you mentioned it first |-).

-- 
................................................................................
Mike Truax:
UUCP:		{decvax,siesmo,inhp4,}!masscomp!miket
Disclaimer:	there are no disclaimers needed!!!

peter@dalcsug.UUCP (Peter Philip) (10/05/87)

In article <1102@omepd> hah@mipon3.UUCP (Hans Hansen) writes:
>In article <2398@cbmvax.UUCP> higgin@cbmvax.UUCP (Paul Higginbottom SALES) writes:
>>Q (cont): Now that CBM is on its feet again.. they want to dump the
>>A1000 and support the two newer one's A500 and A2000.
>>
>>[The MARKETPLACE is determining this.
>
>Commodore Marketing NOT the market place is KILLING the A1000 !  Just so YOU
>get it straight ! ...
>

Gee, from initial reactions of local dealers, the A2000 & A500 are selling 
great (Canada has had both of these for about 2 months) after a huge decline
in A1000 sales.  I wonder what this could mean?  Could it be that the
MARKETPLACE is casting its vote for the A2000/A500 rather than the A1000???
NAW, must be TOTALY the fault of CBM marketing, right??

>>  If all three Amigas were on
>>the market, there would be too much overlap, and the customer would
>>probably be confused.
>
>Don't you mean that Commodore Marketing would be confused ?!  Commodore
>Marketing has NEVER identified the/a market for the Amiga.  Instead of
>aggressively attacking the business $$$ world, with the best business
>computer for the buck in the world, you have floundered with MORONIC,
>STUPID, and INEPT commercials and ads !  If you had used 10% of the
>wasted ad monies to bring to market IBM compatable business software,
>READ 680x0 NATIVE CODE THAT CAN READ AND WRITE ibm FORMATTED DISKS 
>(BOTH 3.5 AND 5.25 INCH) AND AMIGA FORMATTED DISKS, at the Amiga's debut
>in New York there would be over 1 million Amiga 1000s in the world today!

Hans, have you ever read anything about market segmentation - it's pretty
basic stuff - NO?  You really should, it might prevent some of this drivel.
Instead of making unfounded insults, why don't you back up your statements -
how do you know that there would be more than 1,000,000 Amigas in the world
today?  Done the market research, have you?

>I   D O N ' T   W A N T   A N   i b m   C O M P U T E R,
[ .... ] 
>I   W I L L   N E V E R   B E   A B L E   T O   R E P L A C E
>T H A T   O T H E R   C O M P U T E R   O N   M Y   D E S K   A T   W O R K
>W I T H   A N   A M I G A   U N T I L   T H E S E   P R O G R A M S   R U N
>N A T I V E   O N   T H E   A M I G A !
>

I S  Y O U R  C A P S  L O C K  K E Y  S T U C K  H A N S ? ? ? ?

Oh, so what you are saying is that you don't want an IBM computer, just
a computer that will run all the IBM software.  Did you ever consider that
software porting/development is really not up to Commodore-Amiga?  "Hey,
Lotus and Microsoft - you guys better port over your programs or us guys
at Amiga are gonna shut you down!!" ;-)   

>The Amiga is not a toy, what it is is a business computer that can emulate
>a toy!  It is a business computer that can be used for anything a creative
>programmer can envision.  It IS a BUSINESS COMPUTER that hackers love to
>hack on!  IT IS A BUSINESS COMPUTER without any business software !!!!!
>

That should suggest something to you, Hans.  (maybe it is not a business
computer after all)  you seem to think that a computer has to be a 
business computer to suceed. Guess what? It dosen't.

>>A500 and A2000 products are possible because of 2 years of research
>>and development after the A1000 was launched, and therefore, if the
>>A1000 were to remain on the market, it would have to be changed
>>anyway.
>

[Paul bings up some good points about rebate policy and new products ]
>>new products?
>>
>
>What NEW product?  You have repackaged the A1000 and stripped out a
>very valuable piece of hardware.  Oh I guess you are refering to the
>clock circuit (A500)  or maybe you are refering to the 1000w power
>supply in the A2000, for surely can't be refering to the A2000 IBM
>clone sockets!??  I can buy 3 PC clones for the price of one A2000 !
>

How about the Amiga slots?  Yea, I guess you're right, it is better
to have a huge box hanging off the side of the A1000 then the neater/
cheaper/more functional card arrangement that the A2000 offers. :-)
Or how about those IBM slots, as much as you would hate to admit this,
MS DOS is the *STANDARD* for business applications, Commodore would be
fools to compete for that same market with a non-compatible machine, with
the A2000, they can offer a compatible - yet unique - solution to the
"I don't like IBM" dilemma by offering the user the best of both worlds.
The question is not that you can buy 3 Clones for the price of an A2000, but
that you can combine two _different_ systems into one that work _together_,
the result being more than the sum of its parts!

>Where is the PRICE/PERFORMANCE improvement?  Neither the A500 or the
>A2000 offers any performance improvements.  What you have done is take
>functionality out of both the A500 and the A2000, no WCS, no NTSC color
>signals.  The only real improvement is the keyboard, I tried to get
>Amiga engineering to use the DEC VT100 keyboard layout in 1984!
>

Boy, you sure were clever back then!  If you loved the idea of the WCS so
much, why didn't YOU do anything with it?  When I bought my Amiga the 
big clamour about the WCS was that it could be used to replace the OS with
UNIX or some other OS ... two years later -- not one commercial product
(besides WB/KS 1.2) has been released that replaces kickstart.  My point?
now that C-A have blessed 1.2 with being the "official" release of the 
OS, why: 1) waste time booting KS.  2) raise the price of the machines

[lots of other unjustified claims deleted ... ]

I would just like to say that I love my A1000 just as much as the next
guy (hell, I was the first one in Nova Scotia to have one!) but I can see
that it has some weaknesses (in my opinion), such as inconvenient and 
expensive expansion, no room for extra internal devices, incompatible cables,
and the WCS (I hate kickstart!!!).  Those of us who have A1000's have NIL
to complain about, if you like your A1000 - KEEP IT!  If you don't, take
advantage of Commodore's VERY GENEROUS offer and get a new computer for
$1000!  So, while the A2000 is not a giant leap for mankind, it is 
reasuringly in the right direction.

>
>Hans Hansen
>ATE Test Development Coordinator
>GP7SM  --  one more super whizzy from the company that started it all.
>
>These be my words and no one elses.  I speak for me, Intel hires firms
>to speak for it, I ain't a firm.

Peter Philip
Dalhousie University
(just a student, so don't blame them for anything I say)

pooley@hplabsb.UUCP (Chuck Pooley) (10/07/87)

In article <2342@masscomp.UUCP>, miket@masscomp.UUCP (Mike Truax) writes:
> In article <2398@cbmvax.UUCP> higgin@cbmvax.UUCP (Paul Higginbottom SALES) writes:
> 
> bunch of reply's to multiple questions
> 
> >A1000 were to remain on the market, it would have to be changed
> >anyway.  Those changes, if you think about it, would result in an
> >A500 in an A1000 case.  This would not distance it enough from
> >the other two Amigas to make sense.]
> >
> >	Regards to all,
> >
> >
> >	Paul Higginbottom
> >	Sales Support Manager
> 
> What about that idea. An A500 in a A1000 case, or at least as as low cost
> option. I know the problem of stocking two different parts (A500-case, 
> and A500->A1000 upgrade(option)case can pose , but there must be A1000 case's
> still around. Doesn't the 128D system now use a version of this case with
> a 5-1/4" drive instead. Then all you need to do is plug in a
> A2000(option)keyboard. Yea , Yea i like it |-)
> 
  
  Hmmm... interesting idea, but, I think the A500 should have been made with
a detachable keyboard in the first place.

> The bottom line is this: I don't own an amiga yet and would like to get one
> in the immidiate -> near future. From being a C64 user from years gone by
> i ended up not liking the idea of not having a detachable keyboard, cables
> running half way across your desk if you pull the keyboard out any, ect...
> ect... ect. (this is where the , soooo buy a A2000 comes in ) but my piggy
> bank is big enough or i would.
 
  I am a C-64 owner and would like to upgrade to an A500 (can't go to the
A2000 because it would bust my bank too!).  I agree that the integrated
keyboard approach is a BIG lose.  I don't like having to keep my C-64 welded
in one spot all the time just so I don't have to put too much strain on all
of the cables going into it.  The ability to put my keyboard in a more 
comfortable position (without having to move the rest of the system with it)
would be GREATLY appreciated.  Frankly I don't see how keeping the keyboard
inside the same box as the rest of the system is an "improvement".

Chuck Pooley
HP Labs
***These are my own opinions.***

lachac@topaz.rutgers.edu (Gerard Lachac) (10/07/87)

In article <4328@hplabsb.UUCP> pooley@hplabsb.UUCP (Chuck Pooley) writes:

>  Frankly I don't see how keeping the keyboard
>inside the same box as the rest of the system is an "improvement".


Nobody ever claimed that the A500 all-in-one design was an "improvement".
The idea behind the A500 was to produce a cost-effective ("cheap") member
of the Amiga family.  Way back when the Amiga was introduced, I remember 
reading about the "Family" concept in numerous magazines.

Look at the facts.  CBM wants to grab the consumer market again.  The general
consumer doesn't look at detachable keyboard, etc.  They look at price.
Detachable keybards cost more money, cable, shielding etc.  I am impressed
with the workmanship that went into the A500.  A well thought out design.




-- 
		"Truth is false and logic lost..."
					- Neil Peart
	(who at the time didn't realize he was talking about RU)
lachac@topaz.rutgers.edu <--------OR--------> {seismo|ames}!rutgers!topaz!lachac

lbrown@apctrc.UUCP (Lawrence H. Brown) (10/07/87)

In article <4328@hplabsb.UUCP> pooley@hplabsb.UUCP (Chuck Pooley) writes:
>Frankly I don't see how keeping the keyboard
>inside the same box as the rest of the system is an "improvement".

Ahemm!

The reason, I think, was purely an economic one, bundled with FCC hassles.

The putting the keyboard in with everything else cuts down on FCC food, means
only one box to build for the 500, costs less than having a separate keyboard.
For the people that can't live without the detachable keyboard, but can't
afford the 2000, I suggest you buy a used 1000, maybe from all of the users thatare upgrading from 1000 to 2000s and need to unload their old machine.
-- 
	Lawrence H. Brown
USENET: ...!uunet!apctrc!cdf!zlhb0a or zlhb0a@cdf.apctrc.uucp (?)
Phone: (918-660-4389) 24 hrs, voice. USmail: 7325 E. 50th, Tulsa, OK 74145
Disclaimer: I paid 25 cents to see the light.  Call it cheap entertainment.

maj1@sphinx.uchicago.edu (Major Robinson jr.) (10/09/87)

In article <2342@masscomp.UUCP> miket@masscomp.UUCP (Mike Truax) writes:
>In article <2398@cbmvax.UUCP> higgin@cbmvax.UUCP (Paul Higginbottom SALES) writes:
>>A1000 were to remain on the market, it would have to be changed
>>anyway.  Those changes, if you think about it, would result in an
>>A500 in an A1000 case.
>
>What about that idea. An A500 in a A1000 case, or at least as as low cost
>option. 
>... Yea , Yea i like it |-)

Yeah, I like that idea a LOT.  I've always hated that one piece gizmo.  I
was delighted Atari chose that route and not C-Amiga.  :-)

>Any how you mentioned it first |-).

Yep.  Sure did.  Saw it with my own eyes.

Major Robinson, jr.
-- 
ihnp4!gargoyle!sphinx!maj1
maj1@sphinx.uchicago.edu

daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (10/12/87)

in article <1102@omepd>, hah@mipon3.intel.com (Hans Hansen) says:

> What are you talking about??  The A1000 has a FEATURE  ***  YES A REAL
> FEATURE  ***  that the others don't have.  Commodore Marketing has
> never understood the potential of the WRITEABLE CONTROL STORE !  The
> ability to upgrade my 'firmware' by using a different boot disk is so
> far superior to tearing my Amiga apart and replacing ROMs that I will
> never, except under extream duress, replace the WCS with ROMs!  I'm
> not saying this because I'm not a hardware hacker or afraid to open
> up my box,  I was one of the Engineering techs at Amiga and also
> finished the GenRad 2275 ATE test suite for the Zorro board.

Perhaps I should clear up a bit of confusion here.  Since 1.2, every Amiga
has had the capability upgrading it's "firmware" buy using a different boot
disk.  If you want to replace your 1.2 libraries with something else, without
replacing your ROM, a suitably configured 1.FUTURE disk on startup would
replace each and every ROM library with an equivalent in RAM.  Most owners
of ROM machines would probably rather have this in ROM eventually, to save
RAM, but there's not absolute need for it.  Also, without a ROM based system
it will be impossible to do some cool things (booting directly from hard disk
is one that comes to mind).

> Where is the PRICE/PERFORMANCE improvement?  Neither the A500 or the
> A2000 offers any performance improvements.  
  ^^^^^

Obviously you aren't using an A1000 with 9 megs of RAM and two hard drives,
all in one relatively compact box.  And you probably aren't into advanced
video applications either.  Or 68020 expansion.  Personally, I don't care
about IBM compatibility either.  

> I have NOT seen anything worthwhile come out of Commodore sinse the bean
> counters let the best HW/SW design team in Silicon Valley or maybe the
> world, slip away.

Of course the fact that the A500 is selling at several times the best rate
the A1000 ever acheived certainly can't be considered worthwhile.  I guess
you're not a software developer, either.

> Hans Hansen
-- 
Dave Haynie     Commodore-Amiga    Usenet: {ihnp4|caip|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh
   "The B2000 Guy"              PLINK : D-DAVE H             BIX   : hazy
    "Computers are what happen when you give up sleeping" - Iggy the Cat

pooley@hplabsb.UUCP (Chuck Pooley) (10/14/87)

You are probably right that it costs a little more to do a detachable keyboard.
However, the PC clones have some pretty cheap detachable keyboards available.
Its too bad that can't be exploited by CBM for the A500.  I am happy to say
however, that I have just acquired an A500.  I like the layout of the keyboard
and its general feel, but, it would be nice if a separate keyboard was possible.Oh well, I guess will have to be content to dream about the A2000.

Chuck Pooley
HP Labs